I hate those damn things! Especially when they all have touchscreens, and that's the only way to use most of them. But it's not only that. The internet was supposed to be this thing that you just do at home in your spare time, or at an internet cafe, or maybe use at school when you're too lazy to get off your ass and go to a library to research stuff, or maybe use at work if your job involves sending data and/or emails back and forth. But nowadays, people are putting it in their pockets and taking it everywhere they go, and it's really bloody annoying. It costs enough for a cell phone with a talk and text plan. Having a data plan is a pretty significant expense on top of that. Sure, you can use WiFi on a smartphone instead, if you're someplace that has an open WiFi network.
I used one of those damn things for four years until I finally said enough is enough. I sort of had to get it in order to do a silly project in computer science school, because we had to make smartphone programs (some people prefer the monosyllabic "apps"), and using an Android emulator on my PC only had so-so results. But I'll admit, when I finished that degree and got my dream job as an over-the-road trucker, I did find the thing really damn useful. Especially because the TruckerPath application tells you which truck stops are where, how many parking spaces they have, and whether they're full at the time. And it was nice for browsing Twitter or instant messaging with friends when I was getting loaded/unloaded. But after I had to leave because of personal reasons, the smartphone became a lot less useful. I dropped the data plan because I was no longer making a lot of money. And earlier this year, my smartphone got so slow, that it was a pain just to bother trying to use it. And it wasn't even that old; I had replaced my first one less than three years prior, when I accidentally dropped it on the pavement one too many times.
So I switched my phone plan back to a flip phone, and when I want to use the internet, it's right here at my PC, which is the better way to do internet anyway. But I resent all these "apps" that you can only get for Android or iPhone. Fortunately, you can get BlueStacks for Windows, which lets you run any Android program on a PC. But I honestly worry that society is giving too much power to tech companies and letting them try to create a computer-dependent society, much in the same way car companies did over half a century ago. I refuse to participate in tech culture, and I think ditching the smartphone was a good step toward getting away from it.
Anyone else here had enough of the smartphone craze, or never bothered with it in the first place?
I actually turned my phone off during a recent vacation and flat out told people at work to not bother trying to reach me. I like being able to read things on the fly on the internet but I absolutely hate the sense of almost always being reachable. As of late the latter has been a problem for me personally given I work with people that are increasingly indecisive and have poor boundaries. It got bad enough that I had to talk to my boss about the unnecessary work calls chipping into my personal life. Fortunately I think that I had some valid arguments and got the approval to shut down when I'm on vacation or on a scheduled "not on call" time period.
So I guess you can say I can see the benefits of having the technology for my personal purposes but work makes me want to throw my phone in a large body of water.
Smartphones aren't really a trend anymore. Coming from someone who also lived many years without one, they're basically a necessity now. While I may regret it, I simply can't run my life smoothly and have a deep connection to the outside world without it. I'm sure many would agree (and with no doubt the younger generation as well).
Not sure what having a smartphone has to do with being able to actually take a vacation.
I was a slow adopter, and didn't have a smartphone until about three years ago. But it didn't help that until my fifth eye surgery four years ago, I couldn't read a smartphone screen without a magnifying glass.
Even a flip phone, I didn't get one until after my second road emergency. One of them, the county police had an APB out for me, until I was able to reach pavement (I had gotten stuck in a mudhole on a remote unpaved road) and get a lift into town.
That said, while I'm not a smitten as some other people, I appreciate the convenience. Especially when I can use my smartphone as a hotspot for my laptop, when my router goes gonzo or if I'm in a place with no wi-fi. I can also make or adjust lodging reservations from the road.
I've been to places proud of their lack of cellphone coverage. The excuse one used was that you'll be attacked by bears out to steal your catch, if you pay too much attention to your phone. But that was probably also a selling point for executives anxious to slip off the electronic tether to the office. Some of my friends who left the Federal Government for private law firms complained that with the higher income came partners and clients who demanded 24/7/365 access.
I don't mind the concept of smartphones all that much but I absolutely hate that there's no way to access them without using corporate software. If I could have smartphone hardware that ran some flavor of Linux with a desktop environment designed for touchscreens and I could use an open-source program to access the phone and SMS network, I'd be happy as a clam, since I could then control the hardware to my liking. But alas, Breckinridge G.B. "Breck" Honechilton VII, Senior Superiority Officer at AT&T, has decided he'd really like a yacht the size of the Ever Given this year.
Saying you're tired of the smartphone trend is like saying you're tired of the computer trend, and would prefer to handwrite everything. If people have a use for it, they'll use it. If not, they'll manage without it.
Quote from: Rothman on March 26, 2021, 07:21:00 PM
Not sure what having a smartphone has to do with being able to actually take a vacation.
In my case I'm the Emergency Management person at my place of employment. A lot of people have a bizarre sense what a "emergency" really is and won't hesitate to call for stupid shit that isn't important or can wait. For me, I was tired of being told by people outside my chain of command to be available while on vacation since it had become disruptive by people crying wolf too many times.
FWIW I didn't even have a cell phone until I was assigned one by my job in 2009. I question sometimes if I would have one now since I purposely didn't back then due to concerns about the above happening.
Going three months strong, brother!
When smartphones started becoming popular, I knew I would become addicted, and so I put off getting one. Three months ago, I realized I didn't have the self-control to get out of that addiction, and that it was interfering with my family life. So I dumped the proverbial bottle down the drain and never looked back.
Everything I need the internet for, I do on a PC. On the rare occasions I need to look up something while out and about, chances are like 95% that I'm with my wife and she can look it up for me.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2021, 11:01:14 AM
About a month ago or so, I finally got so sick of being addicted/married to my smartphone that I took the plunge. I downgraded to the phone shown below. I keep my old smartphone in my desk drawer at work, because I use it for a mobile VPN pass, which I can access via Wi-Fi to the company router.
(https://www.sonimtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/XP5S_RFANGLE_GEN.png)
I wanted a flip phone, but my periodic travels in Mexico require me to get a phone that can roam on GSM networks. This was the only GSM-capable dumbphone sold by Verizon that isn't a piece of crap. And actually, it's made really well. It was built with construction workers in mind: it's waterproof, dustproof, solid construction. It's big and heavy enough that I bought a leather belt-clip holster for it.
The only downsides are that it's difficult to view pictures on the smaller screen, and that I'm back to texting in T9.
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2021, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2021, 02:54:14 PM
The convenience of a smartphone is life-changing.
Quote from: webny99 on March 17, 2021, 02:55:51 PM
The best approach is to have one for the convenience, but then not spend your whole life on it. That's a challenging balance.
Yep. It's a balance I knew ahead of time I wouldn't be able to manage, and I resisted getting a smartphone in the beginning. Then, recently, I found myself addicted to YouTube and news articles, found myself ignoring my family in the evenings. I tried setting "rules" for myself, but I failed to keep them. So I got rid of the darned thing. My family time has improved, I'm no longer half-irritated by the news, I no longer feel the urge to pick up my phone every few minutes. It's great. That is what has been life-changing.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 26, 2021, 07:19:50 PM
I simply can't run my life smoothly and have a deep connection to the outside world without it.
I have a deeper connection to the people in my life, now that I've ditched my smartphone. The outside world be damned, I care more about my inside-my-own-home world.
Older people can get away with being anti-smartphone. But if you're under the age of 40, you basically have no chance in 2021 society without a smartphone. Sorry to burst any bubbles.
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 08:36:20 PM
Older people can get away with being anti-smartphone. But if you're under the age of 40, you basically have no chance in 2021 society without a smartphone. Sorry to burst any bubbles.
I'm under 40.
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 08:36:20 PM
Older people can get away with being anti-smartphone. But if you're under the age of 40, you basically have no chance in 2021 society without a smartphone. Sorry to burst any bubbles.
I disagree (I'm 38). Aside from being on here and browsing eBay listings for signs I can't think of what I would need a Smart Phone for. My work functions could just as easily be fulfilled via a watered down flip phone. I rarely download applications, so much so that I don't even remember what my password is for the Apple store. Then again I haven't bought a video game since 2009 and have been in general losing interest in gadgets as I get older. I guess that most of my free time is spent doing other things like exercising, hiking, reading and driving. I'm also married which tends to occupy a lot of free time I had in the past for things at home like video games and my computer.
Then again my misgivings above aren't necessarily aimed at smart phones but the concept of being attached to a cellular device as a work function.
I've had a smartphone for about half my life and it's made things so much easier. I can't imagine trying to travel without modern maps (with transit information) and entertainment to keep me occupied (or at least able to listen to music instead of outside noise). My last two jobs were solely reliant on smartphone access, as was my ability to keep in touch with my friends during the pandemic.
I've heard from a few people that paper maps are a red flag for investigating authorities/customs agents in this day and age for some stupid reason, so with that in mind it might be smart to at least look like I'm "normal" using a GPS to get around.
I love my iPhone but not as much as I loved my old Blackberry!! I held onto it, and resisted the jump to a smartphone, until it died
Almost nobody has gone to a live sporting event or concert for over a year now, but way back in 2019-early 2020 digital-only ticketing was becoming a thing. None of this business of printing out a paper ticket. A barcode or QR code was sent to your smartphone, and that's how you got in to the event. Don't have a smartphone? Go stand in that long line over yonder and we'll figure out a way to get you in by the second set.
I resisted any mobile phone for a long time, until pay phones started disappearing rapidly. I could do without the smartphone but have faced the fact that it's becoming necessary to have one to fully participate in modern society, and occasionally it's nice to look something up on the Internet, for example when sitting on the beach, are those just some clouds approaching or is a significant storm heading this way?
Quote from: gonealookin on March 26, 2021, 09:54:21 PM
Almost nobody has gone to a live sporting event or concert for over a year now, but way back in 2019-early 2020 digital-only ticketing was becoming a thing. None of this business of printing out a paper ticket. A barcode or QR code was sent to your smartphone, and that's how you got in to the event. Don't have a smartphone? Go stand in that long line over yonder and we'll figure out a way to get you in by the second set.
I resisted any mobile phone for a long time, until pay phones started disappearing rapidly. I could do without the smartphone but have faced the fact that it's becoming necessary to have one to fully participate in modern society, and occasionally it's nice to look something up on the Internet, for example when sitting on the beach, are those just some clouds approaching or is a significant storm heading this way?
My wife finally got her folks no longer printing their boarding passes! :-D Granted, they haven't flown over the last year but much like a concert ticket, I feel boarding could go exclusively QR code
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 07:08:00 PM
So I guess you can say I can see the benefits of having the technology for my personal purposes but work makes me want to throw my phone in a large body of water.
I feel you on that. Being constantly "connected" 24/7 is a burden no one should have to deal with. Computers were fun back in the 90s, when they were like toys with fun, colorful graphics. Now they feel more like a noose around our necks.
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2021, 11:01:14 AM
(https://www.sonimtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/XP5S_RFANGLE_GEN.png)
I wanted a flip phone, but my periodic travels in Mexico require me to get a phone that can roam on GSM networks. This was the only GSM-capable dumbphone sold by Verizon that isn't a piece of crap. And actually, it's made really well. It was built with construction workers in mind: it's waterproof, dustproof, solid construction. It's big and heavy enough that I bought a leather belt-clip holster for it.
The only downsides are that it's difficult to view pictures on the smaller screen, and that I'm back to texting in T9.
That phone looks badass! Probably better made than the Alcatel flip phone I got. But yeah, now I text by pressing the number keys X number of times, and I usually tell people I'd rather chat on instant messenger, via my PC (which I've always preferred, anyway).
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 26, 2021, 09:57:00 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on March 26, 2021, 09:54:21 PM
I resisted any mobile phone for a long time, until pay phones started disappearing rapidly. I could do without the smartphone but have faced the fact that it's becoming necessary to have one to fully participate in modern society, and occasionally it's nice to look something up on the Internet, for example when sitting on the beach, are those just some clouds approaching or is a significant storm heading this way?
My wife finally got her folks no longer printing their boarding passes! :-D Granted, they haven't flown over the last year but much like a concert ticket, I feel boarding could go exclusively QR code
That right there is symptom of the very problem I'm talking about. As members of a society, it is irresponsible of us to give so much power to tech companies that they can dictate that we have to purchase X gadget in order to perform activities W, Y, Z, A, B, C, and so on.
Seriously, to bring things back to a more road-related topic, look what happened to North America in the 1950s and 60s when we let General Motors decide our transportation policies. Streetcar lines got ripped up, bus lines shut down, Interstate highways torn through disadvantaged neighborhoods only to fall very short of engineering standards 50 years later and needing millions (billions?) of dollars in investment to either overhaul or tear down, neighborhoods became less and less walkable, etc. Am I an anti-car activist? No, not really. I have a car, I like driving it, and if I had a lot of money, I'd spend $5000 on repainting it so it wouldn't be a boring gray with scratches all over it. But, as I'm sure many folks here are aware, there is a growing movement where people who have the means to live in walkable, bikable, transit-friendly cities are ditching cars in favor of bikes and streetcars (and probably paying outlandish housing costs per square foot), in part because they're fed up with car companies imposing car dependency on North America. (I hear it's less of a problem in Europe and Southeast Asia, but those places have suburbs and lots of cars, too, just not at the exact same scale and not with the same level of car dependency North America has.)
What do you think the future will look like if we let tech companies have this kind of power? It's already happening. Am I anti-smartphone? If you want a smartphone, have fun, play Candy Crush to your heart's content, and post as many photos of your breakfast, lunch, dinner, and cats on Instagram as you like. I'm not shaming you for it! But don't impose that on me when I don't want one of those annoying, short-lasting, crappy touchscreen things riding around with me all day.
Quote from: Bruce on March 26, 2021, 09:00:39 PM
I can't imagine trying to travel without modern maps (with transit information) and entertainment to keep me occupied (or at least able to listen to music instead of outside noise).
I always look that stuff up before I leave home and print out or write down whatever information I need to take with me. And I hate listening to music through headphones, but that's just a personal preference not relevant to the topic, and I could just get a Discman if I wanted to.
I don't have a smartphone. Does that make me a hero of some sort? :popcorn:
Don't smartphones nowadays have screen time tracking features to help you manage how much attention you give to your phone? I heard Apple came out with a dedicated function that lets you set time limits or restrict certain unnecessary apps, etc.
Quote from: kphoger on March 26, 2021, 08:19:39 PM
I have a deeper connection to the people in my life, now that I've ditched my smartphone. The outside world be damned, I care more about my inside-my-own-home world.
I'd still say having a connection the outside world is important in 2021. You never know what kind of crazy sh*t is happening these days. I miss when the news cycle wasn't something that people felt like they had to pay daily attention to.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 26, 2021, 10:46:31 PM
That right there is symptom of the very problem I'm talking about. As members of a society, it is irresponsible of us to give so much power to tech companies that they can dictate that we have to purchase X gadget in order to perform activities W, Y, Z, A, B, C, and so on.
So you visit a travel agent to book airline tickets, hotel rooms, and rental cars?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 27, 2021, 12:08:34 AM
So you visit a travel agent to book airline tickets, hotel rooms, and rental cars?
I almost never fly and/or rent cars. If I didn't have a PC with an internet connection to go to the hotel chains' websites to book rooms, I'd simply call the chains' 800 numbers to do it.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 26, 2021, 10:46:31 PM
That right there is symptom of the very problem I'm talking about. As members of a society, it is irresponsible of us to give so much power to tech companies that they can dictate that we have to purchase X gadget in order to perform activities W, Y, Z, A, B, C, and so on.
A few friends of mine had a business and expected their employees to clock in and out by visiting a certain page (or maybe it was through an app?) on their phone. Granted, everyone who worked there had a smartphone so it wasn't a problem, and I'm sure if someone didn't have one they would have found a way to make it work (since one of the owners only got phone upgrades for a while by my wife gifting him her old ones whenever she upgraded, so I doubt he felt strongly that everyone
had to have a smartphone).
Phones are a necessity for me and most others in the world today. For most people today, using a flip phone and trying to move around in the world would be like trying to do all the tasks in 2021 that require any computing power at all on DOS. When it becomes necessary it's less of a trend and more of just a facet of society, like electricity was, then motorized transport, so on and so forth. People have always been criticizing new technology like this, back in the ancient times it was "Why do these idiots need clay tablets? Isn't memory good enough? Soon nobody will remember anything!", and back when cars were developing, people said the same with horses and buggies versus cars.
Some of the things I do require it, and the college I'm going to routes all their account verification and two-factor authentication over a phone app, as one example. I'd be fairly handicapped in society if I didn't have one. I'm not very big on content sharing or games or mobile social media but I still use it to keep myself occupied. I don't view it as a bad thing. Being able to manage my prescriptions from my phone is also a breeze and I wouldn't give that up. Not having to call facilities for every single thing, such as my prescriptions, waiting for a human, waiting on a line to free up, waiting for menu options to be listed, inputting who I am, blah blah blah, is so annoying. Just pushing a button in an app is an objectively better, and time-saving experience. Less time running errands, no need to constantly go all over the place, means more time to be productive doing other things, more leisure time, etc.
However, I cannot stand something only being available on mobile. I like my phone and all but doing work on it? Filling out forms, typing a lot (like chatting), documents, payments? Absolutely not. Give me a desktop version. The only activities worth doing for an extended amount of time on a phone are things like using it as a GPS, entertainment, reading, etc. Things that don't require all that much concentration or input. If I want to type a lot or do work or fill out forms or type a lot, all that stuff, I need a keyboard and a mouse and a big screen. Twiddling my thumbs on a little shard of glass and silicon won't do, way too annoying and uncomfortable and inergonomic.
QuoteAnd earlier this year, my smartphone got so slow, that it was a pain just to bother trying to use it. And it wasn't even that old; I had replaced my first one less than three years prior, when I accidentally dropped it on the pavement one too many times.
Be glad it's not the 90s where you could buy a computer and it would become obsolete in three months, already replaced with something five times more powerful. Personally I try to upgrade as little as possible, I only budge when I absolutely need something new. I apply this to clothes, shoes, etc, you name it, not just technology. The shoes I wear now I got for 15-20ish bucks at a shopping outlet in Fredericksburg, VA, in Summer 2018 and they still hold up to this day. The only reason I did replace them is because my old ones literally fell apart right then and there during a trip I was taking.
This was the case with my current PC. Its earliest components were from 2009 and the whole system might've been absolute top of the line, couldn't-get-any-better-than-this in like, 2012 or 2013 or so. But, time goes on and technology progresses and I eventually had to upgrade to a new PC which I just set up this week. This one is almost near top of the line for its day, but not quite there. I'll probably replace this one no earlier than at least 5 years down the line.
Also, it is true that auto manufacturers shaped the modern world in their vision which causes sustainability issues and other problems but that's a whole different animal than personal, portable computing today.
No smartphones for me. I have had PC's on the net since 1995. My home phone is an old-fashioned landline, which works when the net or power goes down. Since I am home most of the time, there is no need for constant connectivity away from my residence.
One gets the communications devices they need. In hand I have an excellent emcomm system for use after the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits. It is a fantastic setup but how many people will need such around or have the skill set to operate it? Were you a log truck driver on BLM forest roads, a CB is essential. If you are on a boat in local waters, Marine VHF is a necessity. Flying a plane means AM VHF radios are needed. Be in a business needing radio and odds are VHF FM commercial gear is part of the plan.
Want it simple? We have a place in Coos Bay called Hollering Point. It is where one could stand and holler across the bay to anyone on the North Spit when the winds were right. Human powered communications with an assist from nature!
Communication capabilities are truly remarkable in these times. Alas, they do have their hazards. TV watching as a child in the Sixties was restricted in my younger years. Now we have to watch out for smartphones taking over our lives. In between these two eras we had the CB radio craze, the rise of cable TV and the beginning of the net with PC's and dialup connections. I wonder what will be the next great social impact comm tech which comes along?
Rick
Regarding the CB fad, I read something suggesting its rise coincided with the beginning of the 55-mph national speed limit and its end (aside from truckers) largely coincided with the availability of radar detectors. Makes sense to me for the average driver out there. I can't say as I really recall the CB fad in the 1970s because I was a bit too young, although I knew what CB was as a kid watching the Dukes of Hazzard.
How much of the rants about smartphones are related to being attached to Social Media? I got out and deleted my facebook account permanently in 2019 and this was before COVID-19 and how politicized Social Media have been for the past 5 years though.
I got my first smart phone as a college graduation present for myself in December, 2010. At that time, the iPhone was limited to AT&T, thus I ended up with a Droid 2 phone running Android 2.2 . It has come a long way since then. And, yes, in my position, I have to be constantly connected. The good paycheck is a nice offset. It all cloud-connected, thus in some circumstances, some functionality is better on the web app than on the phone app.
Consider the following:
- My contacts on my phone is synched up with the web, so when I migrate to a new phone, it's just a matter of attaching my Google account. Need to share information? Here's the VCF card.
- When I schedule an event on the calendar, I can invite the needed people from the contact list as well as link to the location. Oh, my friend is suggesting that we get together at a later time? Both of our calendars are coordinated.
- At the time of the event, I can click on the location and use my phone's navigation to find the best route.
- I can use Yelp and Yomato to find some good family-owned restaurants along the way that are well recommended. Because of Covid, some restaurants have made their menus available online through the phone instead of a paper menu.
- Oh, I'm short on cash? Not only can I check my account balance, but be able to locate a ATM that is affiliated with my credit union and get cash without a ATM surchage.
- While I'm driving, I can be listening to an audiobook or a music that I downloaded, or stream music through an online service.
- I can take pictures or videos of things that I see along my journey.
- If I'm staying overnight at a hotel, I can watch a movie or show from my own personal media server or through a online streaming service rather than the limited selection on hotel TV. I can also listen to my hometown stations or local stations through an online app in better quality than the hotel radio. Oh, did I mention a smart key?
- With Google Pay, I can make payment by tapping my phone on a compatible terminal and have my credit card charged.
- I can find out about weather warnings, view the current weather radar, and even get localized weather alerts.
- Reading books is a pain on a phone. I found that a dedicated e-reader or tablet works out better.
- My phone is a critical part of two-factor authentication, which helps secure my critical accounts.
Thus, the smart phone replaced a personal organizer, paper maps, dedicated GPS unit, CD player, MP3 player, portable DVD player, camera, camcorder, and radio. It took a while to get used to entering in the data differently. And, no, I didn't even mention posting on social media.
Quote from: bing101 on March 27, 2021, 11:01:36 AM
How much of the rants about smartphones are related to being attached to Social Media? I got out and deleted my facebook account permanently in 2019 and this was before COVID-19 and how politicized Social Media have been for the past 5 years though.
Not really a Smartphone thing but I have noticed that Facebook has kind of shifted in what I would consider a boring direction this past decade. I used to share my highway, hiking and ghost town stuff to my personal page which was much more a normal thing the further back in time you go. Most personal pages now are just memes, selfies, political takes or family photos. I guess that's what people wanted out of the platform but it is also kind of lame (IMO). I've moved more towards Instagram for photo/place sharing as described above. My only real presence on Facebook now is on the Gribblenation Page and the various groups I participate in (mostly highway and history).
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
When I am home, I use my laptop instead of my phone for just about everything, but I find my smartphone essential for:
1) avoid packing and taking my laptop with me on trips
2) have a Pandora subscription with a customized playlist for my car that I find much more enjoyable than any terrestrial or satellite radio station
3) taking and sharing photos/videos without having to own a camera and taking the time/effort to transfer the photos/videos from the camera to the laptop
That said, we only get new phones every 3 years or so and always buy phones that are 1-2 generations older than the newest. We also have a wireless plan bundled with my home internet and streaming TV, so between phones for myself and my wife and the data plan, we're paying < $100/month, and that goes down even more in the 3rd year when the phones are paid off.
Could I live without a smartphone? Yes, but the convenience is well worth what I pay for it.
Quote from: thspfc on March 27, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
Look into the other apps Facebook owns. They're broader than you think.
Quote from: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 27, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
Look into the other apps Facebook owns. They're broader than you think.
Whatever happens to Facebook's social networking services, they'll always have loads of personal information on their users to sell to data brokers and third parties, so they're OK for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 27, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
Look into the other apps Facebook owns. They're broader than you think.
Whatever happens to Facebook's social networking services, they'll always have loads of personal information on their users to sell to data brokers and third parties, so they're OK for the foreseeable future.
The sort of data that Facebook collects tend to go stale really fast, though. And it's nowhere near as useful if you can't pair a set of user data with a device being actively used (so you can show it ads).
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 26, 2021, 06:43:45 PM
I hate those damn things! Especially when they all have touchscreens, and that's the only way to use most of them. But it's not only that. The internet was supposed to be this thing that you just do at home in your spare time, or at an internet cafe, or maybe use at school when you're too lazy to get off your ass and go to a library to research stuff, or maybe use at work if your job involves sending data and/or emails back and forth. But nowadays, people are putting it in their pockets and taking it everywhere they go, and it's really bloody annoying. It costs enough for a cell phone with a talk and text plan. Having a data plan is a pretty significant expense on top of that. Sure, you can use WiFi on a smartphone instead, if you're someplace that has an open WiFi network.
I used one of those damn things for four years until I finally said enough is enough. I sort of had to get it in order to do a silly project in computer science school, because we had to make smartphone programs (some people prefer the monosyllabic "apps"), and using an Android emulator on my PC only had so-so results. But I'll admit, when I finished that degree and got my dream job as an over-the-road trucker, I did find the thing really damn useful. Especially because the TruckerPath application tells you which truck stops are where, how many parking spaces they have, and whether they're full at the time. And it was nice for browsing Twitter or instant messaging with friends when I was getting loaded/unloaded. But after I had to leave because of personal reasons, the smartphone became a lot less useful. I dropped the data plan because I was no longer making a lot of money. And earlier this year, my smartphone got so slow, that it was a pain just to bother trying to use it. And it wasn't even that old; I had replaced my first one less than three years prior, when I accidentally dropped it on the pavement one too many times.
So I switched my phone plan back to a flip phone, and when I want to use the internet, it's right here at my PC, which is the better way to do internet anyway. But I resent all these "apps" that you can only get for Android or iPhone. Fortunately, you can get BlueStacks for Windows, which lets you run any Android program on a PC. But I honestly worry that society is giving too much power to tech companies and letting them try to create a computer-dependent society, much in the same way car companies did over half a century ago. I refuse to participate in tech culture, and I think ditching the smartphone was a good step toward getting away from it.
Anyone else here had enough of the smartphone craze, or never bothered with it in the first place?
I didn't start using a smartphone until 2017 at least a decade after the first Iphone was released. For a while I used a flip phone from the early 2000'a but it was starting to fade by then.
I did use a smartphone for facebook and Twitter initially but then I had to delete my accounts permanently from these two places once the spamming from politicians came into place. Well it's good to hear music on them and play some games via Google at. But I also have a Chromebook laptop that can access google play apps from android too. Now it's more school and work relates files.
Quote from: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 27, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
Look into the other apps Facebook owns. They're broader than you think.
You are right Facebook inc owns Instagram, Whatapp and Messenger. Part of this is that Facebook has to hunt down other demos besides the one they initially have Facebook designed for such as University Students from the mid 2000's.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 27, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
Look into the other apps Facebook owns. They're broader than you think.
Whatever happens to Facebook's social networking services, they'll always have loads of personal information on their users to sell to data brokers and third parties, so they're OK for the foreseeable future.
The sort of data that Facebook collects tend to go stale really fast, though. And it's nowhere near as useful if you can't pair a set of user data with a device being actively used (so you can show it ads).
Well true, but some data doesn't expire or lasts longer than other data, like sexual orientation, marital status, children, food preferences, interests and hobbies, address, etc. And even for people who stop using Facebook, they still have their device identifier/advertising identifier, though some tech companies like Apple are adding features to prevent apps and websites from accessing them without permission.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:44:09 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 04:15:44 PM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 27, 2021, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 27, 2021, 12:38:50 PM
Facebook is in big trouble of losing their title as the largest social media platform in the world. The vast majority of their users are older. Among the most important demographics (ages 13-39 roughly), they're a lot smaller. Facebook is almost non-existent to people under 20 in my experience. So they're going to have to make some big changes if they want their success to be sustained.
Look into the other apps Facebook owns. They're broader than you think.
Whatever happens to Facebook's social networking services, they'll always have loads of personal information on their users to sell to data brokers and third parties, so they're OK for the foreseeable future.
The sort of data that Facebook collects tend to go stale really fast, though. And it's nowhere near as useful if you can't pair a set of user data with a device being actively used (so you can show it ads).
Well true, but some data doesn't expire or lasts longer than other data, like sexual orientation, marital status, children, food preferences, interests and hobbies, address, etc. And even for people who stop using Facebook, they still have their device identifier/advertising identifier, though some tech companies like Apple are adding features to prevent apps and websites from accessing them without permission.
Yes, but even that information gets stale because you can't continue to associate it with a user. Someone switches ISPs or moves to a new location, so now their IP address doesn't match. They get a new phone or computer so their MAC address changes. This data is really only useful if you can use it to target people with advertisements ("I want to show an ad to men, ages 18-39, who live in the United States, and are into poker...") If there's no reliable way to connect the data with the user, it's kind of useless.
And even the things on your list can change over time. People get married or divorced, start having kids or the kids they have stop being kids. They pick up new hobbies or lose interest in old ones. I identify with a different sexual orientation now than I did 5 years ago. Even food preferences can change–you start a new diet or catch something like covid that makes your taste buds totally different.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 06:00:09 PM
And even the things on your list can change over time. People get married or divorced, start having kids or the kids they have stop being kids. They pick up new hobbies or lose interest in old ones. I identify with a different sexual orientation now than I did 5 years ago. Even food preferences can change–you start a new diet or catch something like covid that makes your taste buds totally different.
Yes, that's the stuff that would fall under "lasts longer than other data" .
What do you suppose a business would do with that data if they couldn't associate it with a user they could deliver advertising to?
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 06:25:47 PM
What do you suppose a business would do with that data if they couldn't associate it with a user they could deliver advertising to?
They could still use it for demographics and trends. For example, if 80% of users (even if no one knows who those users are) in City X have visited coffee shops in the past month, compared to 20% of users in City Y a few miles away, then a coffee business would know that they have a greater chance of success with advertising or opening a new location in City X than if they did in City Y.
Facebook does not currently make information of that type available to their customers.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 06:41:51 PM
Facebook does not currently make information of that type available to their customers.
Really? How do you know? I don't trust that Facebook doesn't use or sell that information in some way, shape, or form.
I make use of this information for my business. They don't give me the option to buy that kind of data. It is only available through advertising tools.
Smartphone's aren't a "trend" anymore they have been around for over 10 years.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 27, 2021, 07:16:49 PM
Smartphone's aren't a "trend" anymore they have been around for over 10 years.
True too it's a way of life though.
I will say that I do own a smartphone, but I have a couple of thoughts:
- I only have an iPhone 7, and I have no desire to upgrade to a newer model as long as mine stays functioning and not obsolete.
- I have no social media other than Facebook, and have no desire to have another.
- Kids under age 13 should not have them.
- I do not like them being the only option for certain things (i.e, boarding passes, tickets, etc.)
That being said, I agree with Zloth upthread that the cell phone has basically made it so you don't have to carry around a ton of extra stuff. Take cameras. Why take a camera anywhere nowadays when a smartphone takes amazing shots? Plus it's less complicated to upload pictures from a smartphone than from a camera.
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D To all those who say "We didn't have smartphones when we were growing up." or "We didn't have mobile phones when we were growing up.", I respond by saying, "Yeah, but there were plenty of payphones, and it helped to have a quarter with you at all times." The number of payphones went from a peak of 2.6 million in the United States in the mid 1990s (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/object-lesson-phone-booth/515385/), to around 100k in 2019 (https://www.okwhatever.org/topics/things/do-payphones-still-exist). AT&T exited the pay phone business in 2007, and Verizon followed in 2011, thus pay phone services are only offered by third party providers.
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D To all those who say "We didn't have smartphones when we were growing up." or "We didn't have mobile phones when we were growing up.", I respond by saying, "Yeah, but there were plenty of payphones, and it helped to have a quarter with you at all times." The number of payphones went from a peak of 2.6 million in the United States in the mid 1990s (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/object-lesson-phone-booth/515385/), to around 100k in 2019 (https://www.okwhatever.org/topics/things/do-payphones-still-exist). AT&T exited the pay phone business in 2007, and Verizon followed in 2011, thus pay phone services are only offered by third party providers.
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
Considering what my 12 year old niece (my wife and were the guardians for awhile) has done on her phone and how much I've had to take it away I would definitely say no. Her Dad is the one that lets her have it but her interactions with other slightly older kids have me really concerned what might happen if one creepy adult comes into the picture. Either way, it sure put the question in my mind for if and when we have a kid.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 28, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D To all those who say "We didn't have smartphones when we were growing up." or "We didn't have mobile phones when we were growing up.", I respond by saying, "Yeah, but there were plenty of payphones, and it helped to have a quarter with you at all times." The number of payphones went from a peak of 2.6 million in the United States in the mid 1990s (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/02/object-lesson-phone-booth/515385/), to around 100k in 2019 (https://www.okwhatever.org/topics/things/do-payphones-still-exist). AT&T exited the pay phone business in 2007, and Verizon followed in 2011, thus pay phone services are only offered by third party providers.
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
Considering what my 12 year old niece (my wife and were the guardians for awhile) has done on her phone and how much I’ve had to take it away I would definitely say no. Her Dad is the one that lets her have it but her interactions with other slightly older kids have me really concerned what might happen if one creepy adult comes into the picture. Either way, it sure put the question in my mind for if and when we have a kid.
The amount of unsavory people and downright pedos/groomers on the internet today seems to have surged with the advent of platforms like Discord and the still-ever growing popularity of Twitter and other sites, as unfortunate as it is. I've heard of people setting their profile picture to that of a young girl for the purpose of catching these people and immediately getting creepy/downright sexual messages, totally flooding them with the most disgusting garbage ever. It seems like every damn week there's some popular personality on social media that's revealed to be a pedophile or someone who grooms minors or other awful garbage like that, especially in the circles that I'm in, I'm not sure about the internet at-large. Not to mention you have the elsagate crap that was on YouTube a while ago. I would be worried if I had kids with the kind of stuff they're seeing on the internet and what I myself have encountered.
There's the potential for serious manipulation and something needs to be done about that...I myself have known people who have been manipulated into literal mental trauma by some people on the internet. Growing up as a child, my parents had a pretty laissez-faire approach to my computer use and I turned out fine, but there also wasn't such a pervasive presence of these weird people like there is now and I didn't do social media or instant messaging. I never ran into anything I might remember as creepy or objectionable. The whole thing is just about the worst double-edged sword ever right now. I've met a lot of great people via the internet who have genuinely really helped me out, and the internet is my primary source of income as well with the stuff I do on there and has seriously boosted my future, but I've heard so many shitty stories from those I know about people on it too.
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
Quote from: ZLoth on March 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D ...
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
I think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2021, 03:40:19 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D ...
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
I think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
I got my first smartphone at age 12, got my first dumb phone at age 11. Most kids in 6th-7th grade have a phone nowadays.
It must be hellish for teachers trying to police cheating on tests with the proliferation of phones, smart watches, etc.
(Of course, sometimes I think if kids spent the time they devote to finding new ways to cheat on learning the material, they wouldn't need to cheat.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 28, 2021, 04:11:36 PM
It must be hellish for teachers trying to police cheating on tests with the proliferation of phones, smart watches, etc.
(Of course, sometimes I think if kids spent the time they devote to finding new ways to cheat on learning the material, they wouldn't need to cheat.)
In pretty much any situation that a person would need the material they're being tested on, they'd have the same Internet connection available to them, so what's the point? "But what if you trip and fall into a Faraday cage and don't have your–" okay yeah how many times has that actually happened to you? Because in my experience it's pretty close to zero.
It's been thirteen years since I was in school of any kind, and even then, you were gradually seeing more open-book/open-note tests.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2021, 03:52:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2021, 03:40:19 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D ...
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
I think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
I got my first smartphone at age 12, got my first dumb phone at age 11. Most kids in 6th-7th grade have a phone nowadays.
My wife and I have kids that are currently 12 & 11 and we have been having the debate about when to get them phones. Two years ago, we got new phones and let them have our old ones, but without service. They only work when connected to wi-fi, and through the wi-fi we can control the hours that they will work and the content they're allowed to see.
We are due to get new phones soon and are debating giving them service when we pass our current phones on to them. Without the ability to control their usage through our wi-fi, I'm looking for other ways to monitor/control their usage.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 06:58:34 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 28, 2021, 03:52:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2021, 03:40:19 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 28, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on March 27, 2021, 10:29:33 PMKids under age 13 should not have them.
I disagree... but with strings attached. :D ...
Having said that, the kid need to understand that having a phone is a privilege, not a right. In an ideal world, the kid would receive a basic "dumb" phone that was locked down so that all he could do is call/text their parents, school, trusted relatives and friends, and doctor's office. If they want a smart phone, congratulations, there is a garage to clean, lawns to mow, and chores to do. No, you cannot make monthly payments. After all, if you work hard for something, you are likely to treasure it more and take good care of it. The reality is that the kid is probably going to receive a hand-me-down phone, and hopefully, the parent is tech-savvy enough to lock down the phone.
I think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
I got my first smartphone at age 12, got my first dumb phone at age 11. Most kids in 6th-7th grade have a phone nowadays.
My wife and I have kids that are currently 12 & 11 and we have been having the debate about when to get them phones. Two years ago, we got new phones and let them have our old ones, but without service. They only work when connected to wi-fi, and through the wi-fi we can control the hours that they will work and the content they're allowed to see.
We are due to get new phones soon and are debating giving them service when we pass our current phones on to them. Without the ability to control their usage through our wi-fi, I'm looking for other ways to monitor/control their usage.
I didn't get data until Freshman year.
This discussion needs to be modernized. Digital devices and their role in society have completely and totally changed in the age of COVID. Heck, I'd give a 6 year old a phone with supervision if they wanted to see their friends on Zoom/Facetime. Kids can only kill so much time without devices, I think it's okay to let them use their own electronics for a little bit of time each day. Most are forced to be on a laptop doing school for 6-7 hours a day now, so what difference does a phone make?
Also, cheating. It's not like teachers can do much about cheating nowadays because it's become loads easier now that most of America's students are learning online. They no longer need to hide the things, they can just put them out of sight of their computer's camera.
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2021, 03:40:19 PMI think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
As I said before, phone use is a
privilege, not a right, for a kid. What if you are stuck in traffic and need to let your child know you are running late? There are GPS tracking apps that can run silently in the background to know where you kid is. The kid can also take pictures of things they find interesting and share with you.
BUT.... should someone under 18 be given unrestricted access to a smartphone? NOPE! If I were a parent, that phone would be locked down tight, and you can only send/receive calls/texts to allowed phone number (parents, coach, teachers, doctors, maybe a trusted family friend). Maybe have access to a weather app. Everything else? Must be earned and determined on a case-by-cases basis. Organizer app? Probably. Transit app for tickets? If the circumstances warrant it. YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter? Not on the kid's phone. Disney+? Definite privilege-based and depends on the circumstances.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
As an aside I did eat at a family diner in Utah recently which had their 10-12 year running orders. That kind of thing used to be really common but I hardly see it in the United States anymore. Most of my Cousins in Minnesota were essentially farm hands and free labor when they were growing up.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 29, 2021, 06:21:09 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2021, 03:40:19 PMI think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
As I said before, phone use is a privilege, not a right, for a kid. What if you are stuck in traffic and need to let your child know you are running late? There are GPS tracking apps that can run silently in the background to know where you kid is. The kid can also take pictures of things they find interesting and share with you.
BUT.... should someone under 18 be given unrestricted access to a smartphone? NOPE! If I were a parent, that phone would be locked down tight, and you can only send/receive calls/texts to allowed phone number (parents, coach, teachers, doctors, maybe a trusted family friend). Maybe have access to a weather app. Everything else? Must be earned and determined on a case-by-cases basis. Organizer app? Probably. Transit app for tickets? If the circumstances warrant it. YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter? Not on the kid's phone. Disney+? Definite privilege-based and depends on the circumstances.
Seriously? All kids under 18 can't have unrestricted access and need their parents to verify all contacts and apps? I had a girlfriend when I was 16, should I have gotten approval for that when I wanted to text or call her? Or the many other friends I was making in high school?
I think 13 is a much more appropriate age to draw the line at for unrestricted access. Entering high school just makes sense to me.
Also, unrestricted access doesn't mean kids should be able to do whatever they want. I obviously wouldn't want my kids finding porn or giving out addresses to random people online. It just means that they're at an age where it should be "Everything is allowed except..." instead of "Everything is banned except..."
Edit: I will add though that you're correct in saying smartphone usage is a privilege, not a right. Parents still have jurisdiction and don't have to oblige their teenagers whether it be for financial or other reasons.
While I understand the thought process of not wanting a smartphone so that you can't be consumed by it, I guess I just feel like willpower is an important thing. When my wife and I are together eating a meal, watching a show, etc., we have a rule that we don't use our phones. I'm also not active barely at all on social media with Facebook only being for posting trip photos or 14er summit pictures. And I read Twitter during important sporting events to catch national reactions. I'm on social media for less than 10 minutes a day probably.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 29, 2021, 11:47:51 AM
While I understand the thought process of not wanting a smartphone so that you can't be consumed by it, I guess I just feel like willpower is an important thing. When my wife and I are together eating a meal, watching a show, etc., we have a rule that we don't use our phones. I'm also not active barely at all on social media with Facebook only being for posting trip photos or 14er summit pictures. And I read Twitter during important sporting events to catch national reactions. I'm on social media for less than 10 minutes a day probably.
Chris
Those are good rules to have. If someone can't focus on each other one-on-one as a married couple, I feel that there might be a problem!
It's frustrating when I'm at a social event and everyone just instinctively gravitates towards going on their phones. And for the record, I'm guilty of this as well. But how are we supposed to just live in the moment when that's all everyone wants to do? Interact with the people in front of you and stop worrying so much about posting about it on your Snapchat or Instagram story.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 29, 2021, 06:21:09 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 28, 2021, 03:40:19 PMI think it's potentially unsafe and borderline child abuse for kids under 12 to have their own phone. I don't see any reason why any of the things you mention would need to occur before a kid turns at least 13, if not older. The most convincing case for a kid actually needing to have a phone is when they start driving - and that's usually between 14 and 17.
BUT.... should someone under 18 be given unrestricted access to a smartphone? NOPE! If I were a parent, that phone would be locked down tight, and you can only send/receive calls/texts to allowed phone number (parents, coach, teachers, doctors, maybe a trusted family friend). Maybe have access to a weather app. Everything else? Must be earned and determined on a case-by-cases basis. Organizer app? Probably. Transit app for tickets? If the circumstances warrant it. YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter? Not on the kid's phone. Disney+? Definite privilege-based and depends on the circumstances.
Yikes calm down
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
What kind of work were they doing then?
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
What kind of work were they doing then?
This thread is a little sus
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
What kind of work were they doing then?
Being a sandwich shop, let's see if you have the sense to figure it out Scott.
Rick
Quote from: index on March 27, 2021, 02:47:46 AM
Some of the things I do require it, and the college I'm going to routes all their account verification and two-factor authentication over a phone app, as one example.
Does it not offer a non-smartphone option? I use a two-factor authentication at work, which is why I still keep my old smartphone in my desk drawer and connect via Wi-Fi. But, if I wanted to , I could change my account settings and have a robot call me with my code instead of having a robot text it to me. The other MSO we work for has a desktop PC widget that gives me the code.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
At the time of the event, I can click on the location and use my phone's navigation to find the best route.
Any roadgeek should strongly disagree that your phone can tell you the "best" route. Fastest, maybe. Best, no.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
Because of Covid, some restaurants have made their menus available online through the phone instead of a paper menu.
I get really irritated at COVID stuff that went smartphone-only. When my wife and I went out for lunch a while ago, she had to scan a QR code on the table and look at the menu on her phone. So I had to crane my neck to look to. I wonder if they even have paper menus! Probably. Also, Chick-Fil-A does curbside pickup, and they don't start filling your order until the app notices your smartphone is getting close to the restaurant. So, when we order CFA, I have to take my wife's cell phone with me. Is there another way to do it? Probably. Maybe I'm just too lazy to look for the workaround.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 27, 2021, 06:25:47 PM
What do you suppose a business would do with that data if they couldn't associate it with a user they could deliver advertising to?
Does a data broker know it's bad data before they buy it, though?
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
Because of Covid, some restaurants have made their menus available online through the phone instead of a paper menu.
I get really irritated at COVID stuff that went smartphone-only. When my wife and I went out for lunch a while ago, she had to scan a QR code on the table and look at the menu on her phone. So I had to crane my neck to look to. I wonder if they even have paper menus! Probably. Also, Chick-Fil-A does curbside pickup, and they don't start filling your order until the app notices your smartphone is getting close to the restaurant. So, when we order CFA, I have to take my wife's cell phone with me. Is there another way to do it? Probably. Maybe I'm just too lazy to look for the workaround.
Chalk this up as a "minor thing that annoys me". Looking the menu on a phone is annoying, unless the menu only has a handful of items on it. It's not because I can't read the text, it's just annoying having to scroll up and down constantly.
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
At the time of the event, I can click on the location and use my phone's navigation to find the best route.
Any roadgeek should strongly disagree that your phone can tell you the "best" route. Fastest, maybe. Best, no.
For most people, fastest is best. If you don't want to drive on highways or pay tolls, usually there's an option to eliminate those options. But if your Best way involves going down an out-of-the-way scenic road, seeing a construction site or clinching a route, of course a phone isn't going to suggest those routes.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
I get really irritated at COVID stuff that went smartphone-only. When my wife and I went out for lunch a while ago, she had to scan a QR code on the table and look at the menu on her phone. So I had to crane my neck to look to. I wonder if they even have paper menus! Probably.
Generally, restaurants are supposed to have paper menus to be thrown away after someone looks at them. Even if they don't, I'm sure you could've asked for a regular menu, then just wash/sanitize your hands afterwards. If you didn't ask, that's not really the restaurant's fault, and all they're doing is following state/local guidelines.
The only time I was irritated at something like this was when the smartphone QR code took you to a generic menu without prices. So we just asked for a printed menu instead.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
Also, Chick-Fil-A does curbside pickup, and they don't start filling your order until the app notices your smartphone is getting close to the restaurant. So, when we order CFA, I have to take my wife's cell phone with me. Is there another way to do it? Probably. Maybe I'm just too lazy to look for the workaround.
The workaround? You could just drive thru the drive-thru and place the order there.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 30, 2021, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
At the time of the event, I can click on the location and use my phone's navigation to find the best route.
Any roadgeek should strongly disagree that your phone can tell you the "best" route. Fastest, maybe. Best, no.
For most people, fastest is best. If you don't want to drive on highways or pay tolls, usually there's an option to eliminate those options. But if your Best way involves going down an out-of-the-way scenic road, seeing a construction site or clinching a route, of course a phone isn't going to suggest those routes.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
I get really irritated at COVID stuff that went smartphone-only. When my wife and I went out for lunch a while ago, she had to scan a QR code on the table and look at the menu on her phone. So I had to crane my neck to look to. I wonder if they even have paper menus! Probably.
Generally, restaurants are supposed to have paper menus to be thrown away after someone looks at them. Even if they don't, I'm sure you could've asked for a regular menu, then just wash/sanitize your hands afterwards. If you didn't ask, that's not really the restaurant's fault, and all they're doing is following state/local guidelines.
The only time I was irritated at something like this was when the smartphone QR code took you to a generic menu without prices. So we just asked for a printed menu instead.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
Also, Chick-Fil-A does curbside pickup, and they don't start filling your order until the app notices your smartphone is getting close to the restaurant. So, when we order CFA, I have to take my wife's cell phone with me. Is there another way to do it? Probably. Maybe I'm just too lazy to look for the workaround.
The workaround? You could just drive thru the drive-thru and place the order there.
For the record, |ZLoth| didn't say those last two things. I did.
Quote from: nexus73 on March 30, 2021, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
What kind of work were they doing then?
Being a sandwich shop, let's see if you have the sense to figure it out Scott.
Rick
Humour (Commonwealth English) or humor (American English; see spelling differences) is the tendency of experiences to provoke laughter and provide amusement. The term derives from the humoral medicine of the ancient Greeks, which taught that the balance of fluids in the human body, known as humours (Latin: humor, "body fluid"), controlled human health and emotion.
People of all ages and cultures respond to humour. Most people are able to experience humour–be amused, smile or laugh at something funny (such as a pun or joke)–and thus are considered to have a sense of humour. The hypothetical person lacking a sense of humour would likely find the behaviour inducing it to be inexplicable, strange, or even irrational. Though ultimately decided by personal taste, the extent to which a person finds something humorous depends on a host of variables, including geographical location, culture, maturity, level of education, intelligence and context. For example, young children may favour slapstick such as Punch and Judy puppet shows or the Tom and Jerry cartoons, whose physical nature makes it accessible to them. By contrast, more sophisticated forms of humour such as satire require an understanding of its social meaning and context, and thus tend to appeal to a more mature audience.
Quote from: nexus73 on March 30, 2021, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
What kind of work were they doing then?
Being a sandwich shop, let's see if you have the sense to figure it out Scott.
It was probably copy-editing work, and the child was removing instances of dangling modifiers. :cool:
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 30, 2021, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 30, 2021, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
What kind of work were they doing then?
Being a sandwich shop, let's see if you have the sense to figure it out Scott.
Rick
Humour (Commonwealth English) or humor (American English; see spelling differences) is the tendency of experiences to provoke laughter and provide amusement. The term derives from the humoral medicine of the ancient Greeks, which taught that the balance of fluids in the human body, known as humours (Latin: humor, "body fluid"), controlled human health and emotion.
People of all ages and cultures respond to humour. Most people are able to experience humour–be amused, smile or laugh at something funny (such as a pun or joke)–and thus are considered to have a sense of humour. The hypothetical person lacking a sense of humour would likely find the behaviour inducing it to be inexplicable, strange, or even irrational. Though ultimately decided by personal taste, the extent to which a person finds something humorous depends on a host of variables, including geographical location, culture, maturity, level of education, intelligence and context. For example, young children may favour slapstick such as Punch and Judy puppet shows or the Tom and Jerry cartoons, whose physical nature makes it accessible to them. By contrast, more sophisticated forms of humour such as satire require an understanding of its social meaning and context, and thus tend to appeal to a more mature audience.
I don't see any humo(u)r here (other than kphoger, which came after your post). An sandwich shop employee's work should not be dependent on what a 2 year old does, and I can't imagine what the 2 year old would be doing, anyway. I'm just confused.
Quote from: 1 on March 30, 2021, 03:32:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 30, 2021, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 30, 2021, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
What kind of work were they doing then?
Being a sandwich shop, let's see if you have the sense to figure it out Scott.
Humour (Commonwealth English) or humor (American English; see spelling differences) is the tendency of experiences to provoke laughter and provide amusement. ...
I don't see any humo(u)r here (other than kphoger, which came after your post). An sandwich shop employee's work should not be dependent on what a 2 year old does, and I can't imagine what the 2 year old would be doing, anyway. I'm just confused.
Scott's original post, in bold above, was presumably a joke, intended as humor.
It stems from two possible interpretations of the phrase "working on a smartphone". I interpreted it as simply "using", not "fulfilling a task for an employer". It's still unclear which one was actually meant.
Quote from: 1 on March 30, 2021, 03:32:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 30, 2021, 03:12:10 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 30, 2021, 09:04:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 29, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on March 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM
At a local sandwich shop I saw a 2 year old working on a smartphone. That was scary.
Did the 2 year old at least make your order correctly?
The child belonged to an employee instead of being one.
Rick
What kind of work were they doing then?
Being a sandwich shop, let's see if you have the sense to figure it out Scott.
Rick
Humour (Commonwealth English) or humor (American English; see spelling differences) is the tendency of experiences to provoke laughter and provide amusement. The term derives from the humoral medicine of the ancient Greeks, which taught that the balance of fluids in the human body, known as humours (Latin: humor, "body fluid"), controlled human health and emotion.
People of all ages and cultures respond to humour. Most people are able to experience humour–be amused, smile or laugh at something funny (such as a pun or joke)–and thus are considered to have a sense of humour. The hypothetical person lacking a sense of humour would likely find the behaviour inducing it to be inexplicable, strange, or even irrational. Though ultimately decided by personal taste, the extent to which a person finds something humorous depends on a host of variables, including geographical location, culture, maturity, level of education, intelligence and context. For example, young children may favour slapstick such as Punch and Judy puppet shows or the Tom and Jerry cartoons, whose physical nature makes it accessible to them. By contrast, more sophisticated forms of humour such as satire require an understanding of its social meaning and context, and thus tend to appeal to a more mature audience.
I don't see any humo(u)r here (other than kphoger, which came after your post). An sandwich shop employee's work should not be dependent on what a 2 year old does, and I can't imagine what the 2 year old would be doing, anyway. I'm just confused.
Now I'm seeing humor.
Just remember, everyone: There's no u in humor.
Oh, wait...
I have a flipphone. I only have it in case I'm late or worse and need to call someone. I do all my computing on a laptop, usually at home plugged into a large screen, full sized keyboard, etc.
It freaks me out - well, it did, pre-Covid - to look out at a crowd of people in a restaurant or public square and seeing every single person glued to their phone and oblivious to what is really going on around them. I see them running into each other or fixed objects... I don't object to the concept of a smart phone but it seems to become obsessive very quickly.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:29 AMSeriously? All kids under 18 can't have unrestricted access and need their parents to verify all contacts and apps? I had a girlfriend when I was 16, should I have gotten approval for that when I wanted to text or call her? Or the many other friends I was making in high school?
I think 13 is a much more appropriate age to draw the line at for unrestricted access. Entering high school just makes sense to me.
Also, unrestricted access doesn't mean kids should be able to do whatever they want. I obviously wouldn't want my kids finding porn or giving out addresses to random people online. It just means that they're at an age where it should be "Everything is allowed except..." instead of "Everything is banned except..."
Edit: I will add though that you're correct in saying smartphone usage is a privilege, not a right. Parents still have jurisdiction and don't have to oblige their teenagers whether it be for financial or other reasons.
Ultimately, that's going to be a judgment call on the parents part on what privileges are granted and have to be earned. After all, it is the parent's job to raise their kid to be responsible and productive members of society.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 31, 2021, 07:43:01 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:29 AMSeriously? All kids under 18 can't have unrestricted access and need their parents to verify all contacts and apps? I had a girlfriend when I was 16, should I have gotten approval for that when I wanted to text or call her? Or the many other friends I was making in high school?
I think 13 is a much more appropriate age to draw the line at for unrestricted access. Entering high school just makes sense to me.
Also, unrestricted access doesn't mean kids should be able to do whatever they want. I obviously wouldn't want my kids finding porn or giving out addresses to random people online. It just means that they're at an age where it should be "Everything is allowed except..." instead of "Everything is banned except..."
Edit: I will add though that you're correct in saying smartphone usage is a privilege, not a right. Parents still have jurisdiction and don't have to oblige their teenagers whether it be for financial or other reasons.
Ultimately, that's going to be a judgment call on the parents part on what privileges are granted and have to be earned. After all, it is the parent's job to raise their kid to be responsible and productive members of society.
Obviously, but doing the super restrictive thing would put you in the top 1% of most strict parents.
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 27, 2021, 11:16:59 AM
At the time of the event, I can click on the location and use my phone's navigation to find the best route.
Any roadgeek should strongly disagree that your phone can tell you the "best" route. Fastest, maybe. Best, no.
Depends. Am I traveling to work or to a specific destination to arrive by a certain time? Then fastest is the best route. Am I driving just for fun or to get out of my home? Then the most scenic is the best route.
When I moved to the DFW area just over two years ago for a job relocation, I was totally unfamiliar with the area, having never been there before. For the first several months, I was using the GPS for _everything_. Once I gained familiarity with the area, I used it less and less. A recent weekend trip with my mother to a small-town restaurant had Google Maps suggesting two routes. I took the slower route to the restaurant, and the faster route to get home.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 31, 2021, 07:43:01 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 29, 2021, 10:45:29 AMSeriously? All kids under 18 can't have unrestricted access and need their parents to verify all contacts and apps? I had a girlfriend when I was 16, should I have gotten approval for that when I wanted to text or call her? Or the many other friends I was making in high school?
I think 13 is a much more appropriate age to draw the line at for unrestricted access. Entering high school just makes sense to me.
Also, unrestricted access doesn't mean kids should be able to do whatever they want. I obviously wouldn't want my kids finding porn or giving out addresses to random people online. It just means that they're at an age where it should be "Everything is allowed except..." instead of "Everything is banned except..."
Edit: I will add though that you're correct in saying smartphone usage is a privilege, not a right. Parents still have jurisdiction and don't have to oblige their teenagers whether it be for financial or other reasons.
Ultimately, that's going to be a judgment call on the parents part on what privileges are granted and have to be earned. After all, it is the parent's job to raise their kid to be responsible and productive members of society.
That's why I added my edit at the end. Parents are the ones who decide. But I'm just saying, if I didn't have the ability to merely communicate with friends during high school, I would have done nothing social at all, and that would have been harmful in it of itself.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 31, 2021, 08:13:48 AM
When I moved to the DFW area just over two years ago for a job relocation, I was totally unfamiliar with the area, having never been there before. For the first several months, I was using the GPS for _everything_. Once I gained familiarity with the area, I used it less and less. A recent weekend trip with my mother to a small-town restaurant had Google Maps suggesting two routes. I took the slower route to the restaurant, and the faster route to get home.
Meanwhile, I've never had a sat-nav device in my car. Don't need one, don't want one.
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on March 31, 2021, 08:13:48 AM
When I moved to the DFW area just over two years ago for a job relocation, I was totally unfamiliar with the area, having never been there before. For the first several months, I was using the GPS for _everything_. Once I gained familiarity with the area, I used it less and less. A recent weekend trip with my mother to a small-town restaurant had Google Maps suggesting two routes. I took the slower route to the restaurant, and the faster route to get home.
Meanwhile, I've never had a sat-nav device in my car. Don't need one, don't want one.
Likewise. If I'm going somewhere unfamiliar, I look at google maps before leaving and sketch the route on paper. I take the paper with me, but usually remember where I'm going from sketching it.
I obviously don't care what others do re: their phone, but this thread is just kind of comical to me. It's very much parallel to automotive technology over the years.
"I don't need a radio in my car."
"I can lock my own doors."
"I can roll up my window for myself."
"I can adjust my own rear view mirror with my hand."
"I don't need cruise control because I like to have more control over the car."
I respect kphoger for wanting to put his smartphone down for family reasons, but it seems like a lot of the posts in the thread are obstinance for the sake of obstinance. I know you can use your laptop for directions and write them down, but convenience isn't a bad thing.
Chris
(ok boomer)
Quote from: oscar on March 26, 2021, 07:23:04 PM
I was a slow adopter, and didn't have a smartphone until about three years ago. But it didn't help that until my fifth eye surgery four years ago, I couldn't read a smartphone screen without a magnifying glass.
http://hadley.edu/workshops/listen-with-voiceover-series
http://hadley.edu/workshops/listen-with-talkback-series
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 01:37:52 PM
I obviously don't care what others do re: their phone, but this thread is just kind of comical to me. It's very much parallel to automotive technology over the years.
"I don't need a radio in my car."
"I can lock my own doors."
"I can roll up my window for myself."
"I can adjust my own rear view mirror with my hand."
"I don't need cruise control because I like to have more control over the car."
I respect kphoger for wanting to put his smartphone down for family reasons, but it seems like a lot of the posts in the thread are obstinance for the sake of obstinance. I know you can use your laptop for directions and write them down, but convenience isn't a bad thing.
Chris
I disagree with some of the automotive analogies, especially the one about power windows. If your battery dies and your car windows are down, good luck getting them rolled up so you can keep rain from blowing in. Not to mention if you have to abandon your car somewhere and locking it (thankfully, you can still lock a car manually if there's no power) would be ineffective in stopping someone from reaching in and helping themselves to whatever might be in the car.
I like cruise control, and a radio, but the rest are unnecessary options that have been foisted upon the consumer. Because of my ongoing Saturn Vue vehicle issues, I'm driving a 1990 Chevy pickup truck with cruise and a crappy radio, but with manual windows, door locks, and mirrors. I'm not complaining.
As far as kids and phones go, why do they need smartphones? Give them a cheap "dumb phone" so they can stay in touch -- call if they're running late, call if they need to be picked up somewhere, call for help if they're driving and have a wreck or breakdown.
For years, my wife and I had plain cellphones. Voice only. No texting. For awhile, we had her sister on our plan and got her a plain phone. We specifically told her, "no texting," as we did not have a texting plan and at the time, texts cost something like 10 cents each. One month, the bill was significantly higher than usual. Upon inspection, we found out that there were a lot of texts on her phone. We finally had to discontinue her service because she insisted on texting. Now, texting is standard on smartphones with full keyboards (and in fact, iPhones don't communicate via text/SMS, but by iMessage) and I'd much rather send or receive a text (or an email, for that matter) than have to talk to someone on the phone.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 31, 2021, 03:18:33 PM
I disagree with some of the automotive analogies, especially the one about power windows. If your battery dies and your car windows are down, good luck getting them rolled up so you can keep rain from blowing in. Not to mention if you have to abandon your car somewhere and locking it (thankfully, you can still lock a car manually if there's no power) would be ineffective in stopping someone from reaching in and helping themselves to whatever might be in the car.
Obviously there are times where the technology can be a disadvantage. I haven't had a landline in 20 years, but obviously if the power goes out and my phone isn't charged, I'm at a disadvantage. I meant the newer technologies invoking this "get off my lawn" type attitude from some people. You don't have to be an early adopter that has every new gizmo to understand that new things often make things more convenient overall. It's this resistance for the sake of resistance that I find amusing.
Chris
Quote from: hbelkins on March 31, 2021, 03:18:33 PM
I disagree with some of the automotive analogies, especially the one about power windows. If your battery dies and your car windows are down, good luck getting them rolled up so you can keep rain from blowing in. Not to mention if you have to abandon your car somewhere and locking it (thankfully, you can still lock a car manually if there's no power) would be ineffective in stopping someone from reaching in and helping themselves to whatever might be in the car.
I like cruise control, and a radio, but the rest are unnecessary options that have been foisted upon the consumer. Because of my ongoing Saturn Vue vehicle issues, I'm driving a 1990 Chevy pickup truck with cruise and a crappy radio, but with manual windows, door locks, and mirrors. I'm not complaining.
My former car, a 1999 Buick Century, which overall was a very fun car to drive (it's faster than it looks--maybe you'd call it "slow car fast") taught me to
hate power windows. They broke all the time, and they'd always cost at least $300 or $400 to fix, depending on which part broke. And each of them has two parts: a motor and a regulator (you probably already know this). If the motor breaks while the window is up, hey that's not so bad; it just means you can't roll it down. But if the regulator breaks, you're SOL, because that's what holds the window up! Seriously, car companies, what's so bad about having to turn a crank to put the windows up and down?
Quote
As far as kids and phones go, why do they need smartphones? Give them a cheap "dumb phone" so they can stay in touch -- call if they're running late, call if they need to be picked up somewhere, call for help if they're driving and have a wreck or breakdown.
Agreed.
Quote
For years, my wife and I had plain cellphones. Voice only. No texting. For awhile, we had her sister on our plan and got her a plain phone. We specifically told her, "no texting," as we did not have a texting plan and at the time, texts cost something like 10 cents each. One month, the bill was significantly higher than usual. Upon inspection, we found out that there were a lot of texts on her phone. We finally had to discontinue her service because she insisted on texting. Now, texting is standard on smartphones with full keyboards (and in fact, iPhones don't communicate via text/SMS, but by iMessage) and I'd much rather send or receive a text (or an email, for that matter) than have to talk to someone on the phone.
Well, I guess I won't be texting with iPhone users, unless iMessage converts its messages to SMS for non-iPhone users.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 03:30:59 PM
Obviously there are times where the technology can be a disadvantage. I haven't had a landline in 20 years, but obviously if the power goes out and my phone isn't charged, I'm at a disadvantage. I meant the newer technologies invoking this "get off my lawn" type attitude from some people. You don't have to be an early adopter that has every new gizmo to understand that new things often make things more convenient overall. It's this resistance for the sake of resistance that I find amusing.
Is it resistance for the sake of resistance, or is it resistance for the sake of: Why the **** should I be compelled to pay $150 for a full-blown computer that goes obsolete in a few years and $50 per month on top of my already existing phone bill for data? To me, the convenience of Google-on-the-Go isn't worth the cost, especially when it's something I never wanted in the first place!
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 04:46:50 PM
Well, I guess I won't be texting with iPhone users, unless iMessage converts its messages to SMS for non-iPhone users.
It already does. That's why you get those cool texts that say "Loved: We need cheese from the store."
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
It already does. That's why you get those cool texts that say "Loved: We need cheese from the store."
Good to know! If you're interested, I responded to your earlier post as an addendum to my above post. (I try not to make multiple consecutive posts when I can avoid it.)
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 03:30:59 PM
Obviously there are times where the technology can be a disadvantage. I haven't had a landline in 20 years, but obviously if the power goes out and my phone isn't charged, I'm at a disadvantage. I meant the newer technologies invoking this "get off my lawn" type attitude from some people. You don't have to be an early adopter that has every new gizmo to understand that new things often make things more convenient overall. It's this resistance for the sake of resistance that I find amusing.
Is it resistance for the sake of resistance, or is it resistance for the sake of: Why the **** should I be compelled to pay $150 for a full-blown computer that goes obsolete in a few years and $50 per month on top of my already existing phone bill for data? To me, the convenience of Google-on-the-Go isn't worth the cost, especially when it's something I never wanted in the first place!
Right. Yeah, having a smartphone is more convenient. But, honestly, it's only
really convenient a small number of times. So, to me, what's amusing is people who think they couldn't survive without one.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
It already does. That's why you get those cool texts that say "Loved: We need cheese from the store."
Good to know! If you're interested, I responded to your earlier post as an addendum to my above post. (I try not to make multiple consecutive posts when I can avoid it.)
I understand the not wanting to spend extra money on it for sure, a point I will eagerly concede. But unless I'm reading the tone of the messages incorrectly, it seems a lot of the posters are less concerned with the cost than they are the future coming more quickly than they'd like. :biggrin:
Chris
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 04:57:32 PM
Right. Yeah, having a smartphone is more convenient. But, honestly, it's only really convenient a small number of times. So, to me, what's amusing is people who think they couldn't survive without one.
I just use mine for a million different things. I could survive for sure, but I wouldn't have navigation. I wouldn't have music when I run. I wouldn't be able to see something on sale at the grocery store and then Google recipes for inspiration of what to serve with it. I wouldn't be able to live bet on sports when I'm not at home. I wouldn't be able to get sports alerts for a game I'm not home to watch. I'd have to go to the bank to deposit checks. I'd have to carry a camera with me when I travel. I'd have to buy more ink for my printer to print boarding passes. I would spent more money on my insurance premiums because my Garmin watch app wouldn't be connected. I couldn't listen to podcasts in the car. I couldn't use Uber/Lyft. And not to be TMI, but taking a crap would become a lot more boring again.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 05:08:25 PM
I'd have to carry a camera with me when I travel.
Why? My dumbphone has a camera. Don't a lot of them? It's been a long time since I've had a phone without a camera–definitely longer ago than when I first got a smartphone.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 05:08:25 PM
And not to be TMI, but taking a crap would become a lot more boring again.
Saw a meme or a Facebook post once that said "I'd rather be without toilet paper than without my phone in the bathroom."
As for the other stuff, it either doesn't apply to me or I don't really care.
Kind of confused what you mean about insurance premiums, though. Then again, I have neither a Garmin nor a watch.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 05:02:05 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
It already does. That's why you get those cool texts that say "Loved: We need cheese from the store."
Good to know! If you're interested, I responded to your earlier post as an addendum to my above post. (I try not to make multiple consecutive posts when I can avoid it.)
I understand the not wanting to spend extra money on it for sure, a point I will eagerly concede. But unless I'm reading the tone of the messages incorrectly, it seems a lot of the posters are less concerned with the cost than they are the future coming more quickly than they'd like. :biggrin:
Chris
That's what a lot of it comes down to. They like certain modern conveniences. But they draw some sort of squiggly imaginary line as to what is good and bad.
Everyone here has an electronic device. Some that have computers say they don't have any reason for a smart phone. Some with smart phones don't have any reason to have a computer. Some have both. But I can almost guarantee you, we probably don't have anyone here that don't have either, and are going to a public location with public electronic devices to use this message board. And even if they did, they still embrace a certain level of technology; they just don't own it.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
It already does. That's why you get those cool texts that say "Loved: We need cheese from the store."
Good to know! If you're interested, I responded to your earlier post as an addendum to my above post. (I try not to make multiple consecutive posts when I can avoid it.)
Agreed. Somehow, the iPhone associates a phone number with an AppleID and if the number being messaged belongs to an iPhone, it's sent as an iMessage and shows up in blue and is sent as data.
A number not belonging to an iPhone is recognized as such, and texts are sent as SMS messages over the voice network, and they show up in green.
iMessages also work on iPads, iPod Touches, and newer versions of the Mac OS.
It's possible for an iPhone user to text another iPhone user if there is a wi-fi signal but no cell service, but not for that iPhone user to text someone who uses an Android or a non-smartphone that has to do the 'tap tap tap" over and over again to spell out a word on the 0-9 keyboard.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 31, 2021, 05:46:17 PM
Everyone here has an electronic device.
How do you know that I'm not just having someone read to me every post and reciting to them what to reply via a rotary telephone? Or telegraph? Or carrier pigeon?
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 05:08:25 PM
.... And not to be TMI, but taking a crap would become a lot more boring again.
Chris
That's why Ms1995hoo bought me a magazine rack for the upstairs hall bathroom closest to my home office.
Quote from: ZLoth on March 31, 2021, 07:43:01 AM
Ultimately, that's going to be a judgment call on the parents part on what privileges are granted and have to be earned. After all, it is the parent's job to raise their kid to be responsible and productive members of society.
Or not. I grew up in the dial-up age, so my parents had a password on the Internet connection that was required to connect at all. What did I do? Opened up Visual Basic 6 and programmed an exact copy of the password screen that saved the password to a text file, then faked a connection error message (to explain why the modem didn't handshake). Then I used the password from the text file to connect to the Internet at midnight after my parents went to bed, since having to ask for permission was a nuisance.
Rather than locking things down by technical means, a healthier approach would probably be to establish trust with the child, such that they can talk to the parent frankly about what they see online without fear of reprisal. It's important for a child to be able to ask for help, and if they're afraid they'll get into trouble, they won't turn to the parent for it.
Quote from: vdeane on March 31, 2021, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 31, 2021, 05:46:17 PM
Everyone here has an electronic device.
How do you know that I'm not just having someone read to me every post and reciting to them what to reply via a rotary telephone? Or telegraph? Or carrier pigeon?
IP over avian carriers
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549
22 years ago exactly! :-D
(https://i.ibb.co/Bt7Q2S0/download.jpg)
i'm an old guy, and i love my smartphone.
i twirl an advertising sign on a corner for a living, and having one of those makes it so much easier. the music is the obvious thing, i have about 800 songs and about 30 full albums stored on it. the bluetooth headset gives me total control of it. i usually set the phone down near where i'm working, and as long as i stay close to it, the music speweth forth.
the headset will also read my text messages to me, and allow me to reply to them, dial the phone, answer the phone, and many other things. all, while i'm gyrating wildly in a ridonculous costume.
the downside, is that at home, i live in a canyon that barely has cell service. if i stand on the 2nd floor, i can get blistering 1x or 3g speed. texts will go through, but i have yet to successfully hold a call up here. so i still have the landline. but since i work in town, and i'm there most of the day, it makes sense.
plus, i like things like pulling up somewhere and my food's ready, the map-thingy, and all the other doodads.
i think the killer app would be a mechanism to send/receive text from a landline. its already there, really, there's a short burst of data that carries the caller-id info, seems like it'd be pretty simple to work a text into there.
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 31, 2021, 05:08:25 PM
I'd have to carry a camera with me when I travel.
Why? My dumbphone has a camera. Don't a lot of them? It's been a long time since I've had a phone without a camera–definitely longer ago than when I first got a smartphone.
Without knowing your model, I'm guessing my smart phone camera is better than your phone's camera. If my camera didn't take really nice photos, I would have kept my DSLR.
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
Kind of confused what you mean about insurance premiums, though. Then again, I have neither a Garmin nor a watch.
My company (a medical software company) has a policy where if you're more active, you pay less for premiums. Since I'm already plenty active anyway, one way you can prove it is to link your fitness tracker to their health website. Even if I weren't active, doing that step alone knocks my premiums down $15 a month. My Garmin watch connects to my phone to track heart rate, steps, sleep, etc.
Chris
Semi on-topic, The 8-Bit Guy just released a video talking about electronics stores (Radio Shack, Circuit City, most recently Fry's, etc.) going bust. In the video, he opens up an old Radio Shack catalog to see how much of it has been replaced by smartphones, and lo and behold, it's just about all of it.
It's a bit depressing to see all these old gadgets become replaced by one super gadget. It makes sense; after all that's what technological progress is. But still, I can't remember life pre-smartphone since I was too young, so it would be cool to actually go back to those days where if you wanted to do all these different things, you needed to carry around a bunch of different tools for the job.
You could say I'm nostalgic for an era in which I did not live.
A smartphone may substitute for many different gadgets, but it doesn't make them obsolete.
I read a watch forum that includes a for sale section. You can tell the people who take their for sale pictures with a phone camera vs. the ones who get a camera with a macro lens for the closeups. The closeups tell buyers a whole lot more.
You can get the time and date from a phone... but if you're on the edge of a timezone it will flip back and forth according to which cell phone tower is nearby, so you still have to figure out the hour by yourself. And if you're in a meeting it's not a very subtle gesture to take your phone out, vs. glancing at your wrist.
Quote from: kkt on April 01, 2021, 12:08:49 PM
....
You can get the time and date from a phone... but if you're on the edge of a timezone it will flip back and forth according to which cell phone tower is nearby, so you still have to figure out the hour by yourself. And if you're in a meeting it's not a very subtle gesture to take your phone out, vs. glancing at your wrist.
I once saw the outstanding comment, "When he wants to know the time, a boy looks at his phone and a man looks at his watch." Don't remember where I saw that comment.
Two things a phone will never replace for me: a camera and a watch.
I've worn a watch all my life. I feel naked without one. The only time it comes off is when I take a shower. I've used both digital and analog watches during my life. The one I'm currently wearing is an analog Timex. For a long time, I had a watch (received as a gift from an ex-girlfriend when I was in college) that only had hour notifications at 12, 3, 6, and 9. I can't imagine someone of much younger vintage trying to tell time with it.
A phone camera is great for grabbing a quick shot if you're out and about, but I can't see a phone camera ever replacing a DSLR or even a feature-packed point-and-shoot for action photography. I have never been able to take a decent picture with my phone when I'm driving. It's a breeze with my primary camera, which is an all-in-one model but has programmable features like ISO, aperture, shutter speed, etc., like a SLR. The phone camera is great if I want to get a picture and immediately post it to Facebook ("Hey, look at this neat old VA 63 cutout and 'maximum safe speed' advisory plate I found next to each other in Haysi!") but that's about it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 31, 2021, 11:24:30 PM
Rather than locking things down by technical means, a healthier approach would probably be to establish trust with the child, such that they can talk to the parent frankly about what they see online without fear of reprisal. It's important for a child to be able to ask for help, and if they're afraid they'll get into trouble, they won't turn to the parent for it.
This sounds suspiciously like something said by someone without teenaged children of his own.
Regarding Radio Shack, my phone can never replace cable splitters and the like.
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Regarding Radio Shack, my phone can never replace cable splitters and the like.
Wi-fi can replace cable splitters.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 01, 2021, 04:56:30 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Regarding Radio Shack, my phone can never replace cable splitters and the like.
Wi-fi can replace cable splitters.
The two generally don't serve the same purpose, so I'm not sure what's being argued.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 01, 2021, 04:56:30 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Regarding Radio Shack, my phone can never replace cable splitters and the like.
Wi-fi can replace cable splitters.
Not to connect my Atari 2600, NES, Super Nintendo and Xbox One to my TV simultaneously, it can't.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 12:42:51 PMI've worn a watch all my life. I feel naked without one. The only time it comes off is when I take a shower. I've used both digital and analog watches during my life. The one I'm currently wearing is an analog Timex. For a long time, I had a watch (received as a gift from an ex-girlfriend when I was in college) that only had hour notifications at 12, 3, 6, and 9. I can't imagine someone of much younger vintage trying to tell time with it.
On every cruise I've taken, I've looked at the selection of watches they offer for sale. Yes, I admit that I liked some of the designs of some of them, but when I looked at the price of some of them, I've said no thanks, as I would be afraid of losing it or damaging it.
The problem with many analog and digital watches (and clocks for that manner) is time drift. Unless they are periodically set, they will add/lose a little bit of time each day that add up to minutes over a long period of time. For at least 12 years now, they have sold watches that set themselves each day, but they start at $25 and go up. The mobile phones receive their time from the cellular networks, thus no time drift while on-network. In my youth, I worked at a job which, for safety reasons, watch wearing was not allowed. When I switched careers, I did wear a watch again, but stopped a year or so after I got my first mobile smartphone. And both smartphones and dumbphones display the time.
Yes, my mobile phone has also replaced my alarm clock, and served as a timer and stop watch. Although now, my Echo Dot wakes me.
Yes, they do have WearOS watches that link up to your smartphone, but they start at $200. Sorry, but that's too pricey for me, as I'll be afraid to lose it. Yes, I've lost a fair share of cheap watches.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 12:42:51 PMA phone camera is great for grabbing a quick shot if you're out and about, but I can't see a phone camera ever replacing a DSLR or even a feature-packed point-and-shoot for action photography. I have never been able to take a decent picture with my phone when I'm driving. It's a breeze with my primary camera, which is an all-in-one model but has programmable features like ISO, aperture, shutter speed, etc., like a SLR. The phone camera is great if I want to get a picture and immediately post it to Facebook ("Hey, look at this neat old VA 63 cutout and 'maximum safe speed' advisory plate I found next to each other in Haysi!") but that's about it.
Uhhhh.... if you are driving, shouldn't you focus on driving and not on taking pictures? :sombrero:
The quality of pictures is going to depend on the quality of the phone sensor of the smart phone, and the higher end smartphones take better pictures than the lower end of phones. Still, they won't match the flexibility of the dedicated cameras.
Having said that, I have used my smart phone to take pictures of receipts for submission later as reimbursement. I have taken a picture of my Covid vaccine card and passport front page, not for posting on Facebook, but as digital backup copies. The smart phone camera has been used to scan bar codes, including the USPS tracking numbers. Can't really see a number in the back of some equipment? Snap a digital picture, then size up the picture on the phone.
Quote from: ZLoth on April 02, 2021, 09:06:57 AM
Having said that, I have used my smart phone to take pictures of receipts for submission later as reimbursement. I have taken a picture of my Covid vaccine card and passport front page, not for posting on Facebook, but as digital backup copies. The smart phone camera has been used to scan bar codes, including the USPS tracking numbers. Can't really see a number in the back of some equipment? Snap a digital picture, then size up the picture on the phone.
Oh, yeah, you can definitely indulge in some creative laziness with phone cameras. In a meeting and there's a slide with information on it that you want to save for later? Instead of copying it down ("can you leave that up for a minute? I'm writing this down...") or trying to catch the speaker afterward and having them email their slides to you (and hoping they don't forget), you can just snap a pic.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 02, 2021, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on April 02, 2021, 09:06:57 AM
Having said that, I have used my smart phone to take pictures of receipts for submission later as reimbursement. I have taken a picture of my Covid vaccine card and passport front page, not for posting on Facebook, but as digital backup copies. The smart phone camera has been used to scan bar codes, including the USPS tracking numbers. Can't really see a number in the back of some equipment? Snap a digital picture, then size up the picture on the phone.
Oh, yeah, you can definitely indulge in some creative laziness with phone cameras. In a meeting and there's a slide with information on it that you want to save for later? Instead of copying it down ("can you leave that up for a minute? I'm writing this down...") or trying to catch the speaker afterward and having them email their slides to you (and hoping they don't forget), you can just snap a pic.
This is very useful for university students for in-person classes.
Quote from: ZLoth on April 02, 2021, 09:06:57 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 01, 2021, 12:42:51 PM
watches
watches
I haven't worn a watch in probably twenty years. I think I stopped as soon as I had my first cell phone. The main reason is that I simply got tired of them breaking. Missing watchband pin, torn rubber, cracked face, etc. Then I asked myself why I should buy a new one or pay for a repair, when I have another device that tells the time clipped to my belt.
(Oh, and Swatch watches were the bomb.)
Quote from: ZLoth on April 02, 2021, 09:06:57 AM
Uhhhh.... if you are driving, shouldn't you focus on driving and not on taking pictures?
Security! Would you please escort this person out of the forum?
You can get a watch for less than $10 at Walmart. It's not going to break the bank if one has to be replaced.
I think I have 12 watches, so I don't really wear all of them often enough. Six of them belonged to my father. He loved watches. The memory is seared into my brain–the day after he came home from the hospital for the last time before he died, he had my mom bring in all his watches and told my brother and me that he wanted us to divide them up between ourselves, so we took turns selecting them. Some of them are very nice watches (I took the Tag Heuer), but you can understand why I wish they were still Dad's....
I used to wear a watch at work, because we weren't allowed to have our phones with us while we were working. Later I transferred to a job where I was on a computer all day. I started just using the clock on the taskbar instead of my watch, so I stopped wearing it.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 02, 2021, 10:02:59 PM
You can get a watch for less than $10 at Walmart. It's not going to break the bank if one has to be replaced.
Yeah, but the $10 watches suck ass. A $50 watch definitely lasts more than five times as long as a $10 watch.
Since my Pebble broke, I've been without a watch for over a year. I took a bit of time (pun intended) to adjust to checking my phone more often, but with the pandemic I'm close to my car's clock anyway. I'm definitely looking for a new smartwatch of some sort, or even a basic fitness tracker that can also tell time.
I am kind of fond of vintage mechanical watches. Mostly Omega, partly because I like their style, and partly because compared to some brands the replacement parts are still mostly available to watchmakers with a parts account.
One thing that bothers me is people who only use smartphones and won't use a regular computer. There are some things that you straight up can't do on a phone, either because it's just not the right tool for the job (too small, not precise enough), or the smartphone botches some aspect of what it's trying to do (like the GSV bug where links are zoomed in on the pavement instead of what you were pointing the camera at, and apparently you can't see historical GSV imagery on mobile). But despite this they just insist on using a phone instead of a computer, preferring to half-ass whatever it is they were trying to do instead of taking the time to do it right. In the worst cases, they make this your problem ("sorry this post is an incomprehensible mess, I'm on mobile. maybe you can spend 20 minutes thinking about what typos are close to the words I was trying to type and what autocorrect might have changed them to").
My wife is one of these people–she recently really wanted to apply for a job, but the application was glitching out on her phone so she could never submit it. I created a user account for her on my laptop, but instead of using that she just gave up on the job.
It's a lot like watching someone with a power screwdriver that periodically shocks them trying to use it on a nail.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 03, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
One thing that bothers me is people who only use smartphones and won't use a regular computer. There are some things that you straight up can't do on a phone, either because it's just not the right tool for the job (too small, not precise enough), or the smartphone botches some aspect of what it's trying to do (like the GSV bug where links are zoomed in on the pavement instead of what you were pointing the camera at, and apparently you can't see historical GSV imagery on mobile). But despite this they just insist on using a phone instead of a computer, preferring to half-ass whatever it is they were trying to do instead of taking the time to do it right. In the worst cases, they make this your problem ("sorry this post is an incomprehensible mess, I'm on mobile. maybe you can spend 20 minutes thinking about what typos are close to the words I was trying to type and what autocorrect might have changed them to").
My wife is one of these people–she recently really wanted to apply for a job, but the application was glitching out on her phone so she could never submit it. I created a user account for her on my laptop, but instead of using that she just gave up on the job.
It's a lot like watching someone with a power screwdriver that periodically shocks them trying to use it on a nail.
I don't understand this phenomenon either. If we're comparing one-time purchase prices, a low-end smartphone is probably half the price of a low-end laptop. But a basic broadband internet subscription costs about as much as a data plan (although I'm sure this varies a lot from place to place and from plan to plan). And a low-end smartphone is most likely going to become unbearably slow and borderline obsolete in half the time the low-end laptop will. So I don't know why anyone would prefer the smartphone, unless that person just really, really wants to take it
everywhere. Also, typing on a real, full keyboard with real keys is so much easier and more enjoyable than trying to type anything on a smartphone touchscreen.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 03, 2021, 11:59:27 PMSo I don't know why anyone would prefer the smartphone, unless that person just really, really wants to take it everywhere. Also, typing on a real, full keyboard with real keys is so much easier and more enjoyable than trying to type anything on a smartphone touchscreen.
You do realize that they do sell BlueTooth Keyboards (https://amzn.to/2Ojf8M6) that interface with your tablet and/or smartphone. I do pull oit out occasionally.
Having said that, yes, there is some tasks that are better on a smart phone, and some tasks that are better on a computer. Consider:
- When looking at Google Maps, the map view is much bigger on the computer screen than it is on my mobile phone. However, I can still send a particular destination from my computer to my smartphone.
- I can set up a particular contact initially on my smart phone, then add additional details at home through through the computer. The same with my calendar.
- Some time back, Google released an update to their text messenger app. By going to https://messages.google.com/web/ on any computer, I can scan a QR code, then read/reply to text messages from my computer.
- If I'm shopping and something interests me, I can scan the bar code to check the price against Amazon. I can then look at the browsing history of Amazon on my computer to research a product more.
- I got pulled into a critical meeting, but had some errands to run. I joined the online meeting from my phone while listening to the audio, then hopped onto my computer when I got home.
If the User eXperience (UX) is designed well, the web site and and the phone app will compliment each other. Yes, I'm mildly irritated that I can only access my Blink security camera videos from my mobile phone, but it allows me to check my home while I'm away. I was able to access my sprinkler system controller (https://amzn.to/2R1lu3H) when collaborating with my neighbor on a possible water leak issue instead of having to walk from the front sidewalk to my back garage, turn on that zone, check the front sprinkler heads, then walk back to turn off the zone. (It was the neighbor's sprinkler system, but right at the property line.) I'm also able to verify that yes, my garage door is closed, and not turn around, drive back 10 minutes, just to verify. (The opener I have now also has a timer to close the door automatically after five minutes).
It bothers me when people dismiss technology immediately because of one or two aspects of it, such as looking at smartphones for only the social media, gaming, or watching videos. It can be a very powerful tool to help make your life easier and better, but it sometimes requires that you reframe your mind to look at things differently, and format the data properly. Sometimes, that requires that you sit down and spend the time learning the application. You can't just go in and say "Doctor's appointment at 3 PM", you have to enter it in as "Doctor XXX from 3-4 PM". You can supplement your paper maps with Google Map data. Technology helped me discover some good local businesses to patronize both locally and when I'm traveling.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 01, 2021, 10:18:15 AM
Semi on-topic, The 8-Bit Guy just released a video talking about electronics stores (Radio Shack, Circuit City, most recently Fry's, etc.) going bust. In the video, he opens up an old Radio Shack catalog to see how much of it has been replaced by smartphones, and lo and behold, it's just about all of it.
It's a bit depressing to see all these old gadgets become replaced by one super gadget. It makes sense; after all that's what technological progress is. But still, I can't remember life pre-smartphone since I was too young, so it would be cool to actually go back to those days where if you wanted to do all these different things, you needed to carry around a bunch of different tools for the job.
You could say I'm nostalgic for an era in which I did not live.
The smartphone may do it all. But does it do them
better? Or is that the majority of people are willing to accept "jack of all trades, master of none" in exchange for the convenience of one device? Sadly, I think the latter is the general answer.
Having a bunch of tabs open is also much easier on a computer than a phone. It would be hard to imagine doing my main forum trawls on a phone for this reason, even if the display were modified to play nice with mobile Chrome. It is nice if I want to do some reading while waiting somewhere, though. Thankfully, Chrome has features that make sharing links between my desktop, laptop, and phone very easy.
Quote from: vdeane on April 04, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
Having a bunch of tabs open is also much easier on a computer than a phone. It would be hard to imagine doing my main forum trawls on a phone for this reason, even if the display were modified to play nice with mobile Chrome. It is nice if I want to do some reading while waiting somewhere, though. Thankfully, Chrome has features that make sharing links between my desktop, laptop, and phone very easy.
and this site is not particularly mobile-friendly. its readable, but there's a lot of pinching and ... [whats the opposite of pinching] and swiping around to do to view stuff.
nothing personal, creators. still a fun and interesting site.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 04, 2021, 09:49:49 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 01, 2021, 10:18:15 AM
Semi on-topic, The 8-Bit Guy just released a video talking about electronics stores (Radio Shack, Circuit City, most recently Fry's, etc.) going bust. In the video, he opens up an old Radio Shack catalog to see how much of it has been replaced by smartphones, and lo and behold, it's just about all of it.
It's a bit depressing to see all these old gadgets become replaced by one super gadget. It makes sense; after all that's what technological progress is. But still, I can't remember life pre-smartphone since I was too young, so it would be cool to actually go back to those days where if you wanted to do all these different things, you needed to carry around a bunch of different tools for the job.
You could say I'm nostalgic for an era in which I did not live.
The smartphone may do it all. But does it do them better? Or is that the majority of people are willing to accept "jack of all trades, master of none" in exchange for the convenience of one device? Sadly, I think the latter is the general answer.
In the technological world, ease-of-access always prevails over all else.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 04, 2021, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 04, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
Having a bunch of tabs open is also much easier on a computer than a phone. It would be hard to imagine doing my main forum trawls on a phone for this reason, even if the display were modified to play nice with mobile Chrome. It is nice if I want to do some reading while waiting somewhere, though. Thankfully, Chrome has features that make sharing links between my desktop, laptop, and phone very easy.
and this site is not particularly mobile-friendly. its readable, but there's a lot of pinching and ... [whats the opposite of pinching] and swiping around to do to view stuff.
nothing personal, creators. still a fun and interesting site.
We'll be able to fix this with the next forum software update. Whenever SMF gets around to releasing it.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 04, 2021, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 04, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
Having a bunch of tabs open is also much easier on a computer than a phone. It would be hard to imagine doing my main forum trawls on a phone for this reason, even if the display were modified to play nice with mobile Chrome. It is nice if I want to do some reading while waiting somewhere, though. Thankfully, Chrome has features that make sharing links between my desktop, laptop, and phone very easy.
and this site is not particularly mobile-friendly. its readable, but there's a lot of pinching and ... [whats the opposite of pinching] and swiping around to do to view stuff.
nothing personal, creators. still a fun and interesting site.
That's what I meant by not mobile friendly. Do note, however, my wider point, where even fixing that wouldn't make the way I do my full-size checks of the forum the forum (as opposed to the "I'm bored, is anything interesting happening there" checks that I do in incognito tabs and signed out) - opening every subforum with new posts into a separate tab, then going through them and opening every thread with new posts I want to read into their own tabs - would still be extraordinarily inconvenient on a phone simply as a matter of the small screen size and how mobile apps are designed. Display issues can be fixed (when SMF gets around to it). Issues with usability of having a ton of tabs is fundamental to how the device is designed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 04, 2021, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 04, 2021, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 04, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
Having a bunch of tabs open is also much easier on a computer than a phone. It would be hard to imagine doing my main forum trawls on a phone for this reason, even if the display were modified to play nice with mobile Chrome. It is nice if I want to do some reading while waiting somewhere, though. Thankfully, Chrome has features that make sharing links between my desktop, laptop, and phone very easy.
and this site is not particularly mobile-friendly. its readable, but there's a lot of pinching and ... [whats the opposite of pinching] and swiping around to do to view stuff.
nothing personal, creators. still a fun and interesting site.
We'll be able to fix this with the next forum software update. Whenever SMF gets around to releasing it.
Thanks for letting us know that mobile first strategy is now being implemented.
I'll admit, some of the contrary viewpoints in this thread contained good points. I went ahead and switched back to a smartphone (not really because I was persuaded to, but because of a lot of things I'd been thinking about over the past month). There were two big things I missed: a selfie camera that took good selfies (you can buy cheapo selfie cameras that sound good, but I haven't been able to find a really good one), and being able to text-message friends without fussing with the 10-key and awkward shifting mechanism (it sounds fun until you try to write a full paragraph). The flip phone is definitely better for using in the car, though: if someone calls, you just flip to answer, instead of dangerously fumbling with the swipe mechanism on the touch screen. I might switch the SIM card back and forth for that purpose. And I'm still not getting a big data plan, because $$. But, this weekend, out of curiosity, I went to the T-Mobile Store (same carrier I've been with ever since it was Voice Stream), and they offered a deal where they'd give me a brand new smartphone for free if I switched to a plan that gives me unlimited talk and text plus limited data for five bucks per month
less than what I was paying for my unlimited talk and text plan without data. And I can always use WiFi when I'm at home, or at a restaurant or motel that offers it. And, I guess if it becomes annoyingly slow in two to three years, $150 to $200 for a new one isn't entirely unaffordable as long as I still have something vaguely resembling an income.
It's so hard to commit to personal decisions. Working out/lifting weights every day is about the only thing I know how to stick with.
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:39:55 PM
Thanks for letting us know that mobile first strategy is now being implemented.
I prefer the term "mobile-friendly" over "mobile-first." "Mobile-first" implies that a mobile device is somehow superior to a PC, which is almost the exact opposite of reality. PCs are technically superior and easier to type on. The only advantage of a mobile device is, well, being more mobile. Before video games became a crazy mess, the at-home console version of a given video game was usually designed to be the "fullest" version, while the portable console version was typically a downsized version, that was fun on its own, but kind of left you feeling like you'd rather be at home playing the console version.
Starting an interface design with the downsized version just seems inherently backwards.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 11, 2021, 09:48:16 PM
Starting an interface design with the downsized version just seems inherently backwards.
That's because it's easier to upsize a design to the more capable interface than to downsize it for the less capable one. Especially with the trend to have one version that adjusts rather than two separate versions. It does tend to result in less full-featured designs, though.
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:39:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 04, 2021, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 04, 2021, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 04, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
Having a bunch of tabs open is also much easier on a computer than a phone. It would be hard to imagine doing my main forum trawls on a phone for this reason, even if the display were modified to play nice with mobile Chrome. It is nice if I want to do some reading while waiting somewhere, though. Thankfully, Chrome has features that make sharing links between my desktop, laptop, and phone very easy.
and this site is not particularly mobile-friendly. its readable, but there's a lot of pinching and ... [whats the opposite of pinching] and swiping around to do to view stuff.
nothing personal, creators. still a fun and interesting site.
We'll be able to fix this with the next forum software update. Whenever SMF gets around to releasing it.
Thanks for letting us know that mobile first strategy is now being implemented.
Bold of you to assume we have a strategy. We have a tactic, of implementing a theme with responsive elements. But it's not part of any overall "strategy" to get people to buy a bunch of AARoads merch or anything, it's just a quality of life improvement for people that need it.
Quote from: vdeane on April 11, 2021, 10:00:11 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 11, 2021, 09:48:16 PM
Starting an interface design with the downsized version just seems inherently backwards.
That's because it's easier to upsize a design to the more capable interface than to downsize it for the less capable one. Especially with the trend to have one version that adjusts rather than two separate versions. It does tend to result in less full-featured designs, though.
I don't think it's necessarily easier or harder to do one way or the other. With my website I started with the PC theme and added the mobile theme later when Google started docking points for not being mobile-friendly. The way you do responsive design (the design type that adjusts based on the size of the display device) is you have certain CSS rules that kick in when the resolution of the device is below a certain amount. So you can use those rules to hide portions of the design that don't play well on small-format browsers and show mobile-friendly replacements (which are hidden to large-format browsers by those same rules), or override the large-format rules for ones better suited for smaller devices. In fact, if you resize your browser window, you can see the design shift from one to the other.
Other than that, it's common-sense design things like try to make important parts of the interface large enough that they're easily selected and avoid placing them too close to one another, both of which benefit desktop users too by virtue of Fitts' Law.
With my website, it's important to me that both mobile and desktop users can easily access everything on the site with no impaired functionality, so I am going to do my very best to ensure that the forum's responsive theme will follow the same philosophy, even if it means I have to write the theme from scratch.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 11:36:16 PM
With my website, it's important to me that both mobile and desktop users can easily access everything on the site with no impaired functionality, so I am going to do my very best to ensure that the forum's responsive theme will follow the same philosophy, even if it means I have to write the theme from scratch.
Whatever you do, just please don't make it like Facebook! Facebook's interface has been crap and crappier, ever since they introduced the "Timeline" so many years ago.
If anything, the one feature that would make this site more mobile-friendly would be to have a system for quoting messages that doesn't rely so much on text editing. It's easy to mange all those quotation tags when you have a full physical keyboard in front of you, but it's a pain on a mobile device. Unfortunately, I don't have good ideas off the top of my head for how to better implement this, but probably you and/or other folks do.
Oh, and speaking of Facebook, one of the reasons I don't like the term "mobile-first" is I feel like it corresponds to a philosophy where some platforms design
primarily for mobile devices and then don't even include as many features on the PC version. The biggest offender I know of is Instagram. With Instagram, if you want to post something, you
have to do so from a mobile interface, because it won't let you do it in a PC web browser. Fortunately, if you don't have a smartphone or tablet, you can just download BlueStacks for Windows and do everything from there, but I feel like you shouldn't have to jump through that hoop just to post photos/art.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 12, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
If anything, the one feature that would make this site more mobile-friendly would be to have a system for quoting messages that doesn't rely so much on text editing. It's easy to mange all those quotation tags when you have a full physical keyboard in front of you, but it's a pain on a mobile device.
Agreed. If you don't want to have a million inlaid quotes and you start to hold down backspace to get rid of some of them, you inevitably delete the information from the first quote and then have to go back and start all over again.
Chris
I've never found myself in need of using this forum so badly that I resorted to using a mobile device. There's nothing here that can't wait until I'm at a computer.
Facebook in its current form is practically unusable. I detest the new browser version's look. Trying to scroll through a whole bunch of posts on mobile is a chore, especially since it defaults to "top stories" and if you leave the app for any period of time and go back to it, it automatically resets itself even if you have chosen "most recent" as your last view.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 11, 2021, 09:48:16 PM
There were two big things I missed: a selfie camera that took good selfies (you can buy cheapo selfie cameras that sound good, but I haven't been able to find a really good one)...
I just don't understand selfie culture. Why do people feel the need to take pictures of themselves and post them all over social media? I'm the exact opposite: I try to avoid having my picture out there for the world to see. If I get a notice someone has tagged me in a photo on Facebook, I'll usually remove the tag. It's bad enough that I'm on television often due to my job and I have had random strangers come up to me in meetings or classes and tell me they saw me on TV.
And filters ... I know what some of the people that use filters incessantly on their pictures look like in real life. It's nothing like their photos make them out to be.
I don't think it's my generation or age group, either, that has an aversion to them, as I know people around my age who are constantly posting selfies.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 12, 2021, 11:52:26 AM
I just don't understand selfie culture.
I wasn't into it at all until I started committing myself to working out harder. Now, I like to show off. Call me shallow, but it's something I've been able to commit myself to all these years, when things art and music weren't things I was good at making myself stick with.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 11:36:16 PM
I don't think it's necessarily easier or harder to do one way or the other. With my website I started with the PC theme and added the mobile theme later when Google started docking points for not being mobile-friendly. The way you do responsive design (the design type that adjusts based on the size of the display device) is you have certain CSS rules that kick in when the resolution of the device is below a certain amount. So you can use those rules to hide portions of the design that don't play well on small-format browsers and show mobile-friendly replacements (which are hidden to large-format browsers by those same rules), or override the large-format rules for ones better suited for smaller devices. In fact, if you resize your browser window, you can see the design shift from one to the other.
Other than that, it's common-sense design things like try to make important parts of the interface large enough that they're easily selected and avoid placing them too close to one another, both of which benefit desktop users too by virtue of Fitts' Law.
With the case of my site, the mobile version is a bit of a kludge because the CSS design was done back in 2012 and didn't have mobile as so much as a thought, and hasn't been significantly modified since aside from bug fixes and adding in some mobile code to adjust things like text size, spacing, and image size to make things work (and get the Google site optimization analysis to stop complaining). Even the recent upgrade to HTML5 didn't disturb it (though the photo gallery code now uses Lightbox... incidentally, this is the reason
why I finally upgraded to HTML5!).
I remember when it was possible to set rules based on device screen width rather than window size.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 12, 2021, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 12, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
If anything, the one feature that would make this site more mobile-friendly would be to have a system for quoting messages that doesn't rely so much on text editing. It's easy to mange all those quotation tags when you have a full physical keyboard in front of you, but it's a pain on a mobile device.
Agreed. If you don't want to have a million inlaid quotes and you start to hold down backspace to get rid of some of them, you inevitably delete the information from the first quote and then have to go back and start all over again.
This is just a function of the way forum software works (posts stored as BBcode which are then parsed to produce HTML when a thread is accessed) so I don't foresee it changing meaningfully. If you need a quick and dirty quoting method on mobile, just copy and paste the post you want to quote and surround it by quote tags. It won't include the fancy link back to the original post, but unless you're quoting something from pages back, most people should be able to understand what you're replying to.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 12, 2021, 11:52:26 AM
Facebook in its current form is practically unusable. I detest the new browser version's look. Trying to scroll through a whole bunch of posts on mobile is a chore, especially since it defaults to "top stories" and if you leave the app for any period of time and go back to it, it automatically resets itself even if you have chosen "most recent" as your last view.
Well, yeah..."top stories" makes Facebook money (because companies have to pay to be considered a "top story") and "most recent" doesn't! The only way to fix this is to stop using Facebook.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2021, 01:38:53 PM
... stop using Facebook.
Done! And a long time ago, I might add!
Quote from: hbelkins on April 12, 2021, 11:52:26 AM
I've never found myself in need of using this forum so badly that I resorted to using a mobile device. There's nothing here that can't wait until I'm at a computer.
Facebook in its current form is practically unusable. I detest the new browser version's look. Trying to scroll through a whole bunch of posts on mobile is a chore, especially since it defaults to "top stories" and if you leave the app for any period of time and go back to it, it automatically resets itself even if you have chosen "most recent" as your last view.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 11, 2021, 09:48:16 PM
There were two big things I missed: a selfie camera that took good selfies (you can buy cheapo selfie cameras that sound good, but I haven't been able to find a really good one)...
I just don't understand selfie culture. Why do people feel the need to take pictures of themselves and post them all over social media? I'm the exact opposite: I try to avoid having my picture out there for the world to see. If I get a notice someone has tagged me in a photo on Facebook, I'll usually remove the tag. It's bad enough that I'm on television often due to my job and I have had random strangers come up to me in meetings or classes and tell me they saw me on TV.
And filters ... I know what some of the people that use filters incessantly on their pictures look like in real life. It's nothing like their photos make them out to be.
I don't think it's my generation or age group, either, that has an aversion to them, as I know people around my age who are constantly posting selfies.
Your reign as King Curmudgeon continues. All hail the King!
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 12, 2021, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 12, 2021, 11:52:26 AM
I just don't understand selfie culture.
I wasn't into it at all until I started committing myself to working out harder. Now, I like to show off. Call me shallow, but it's something I've been able to commit myself to all these years, when things art and music weren't things I was good at making myself stick with.
Hello, Shallow.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2021, 01:38:53 PM
This is just a function of the way forum software works (posts stored as BBcode which are then parsed to produce HTML when a thread is accessed) so I don't foresee it changing meaningfully. If you need a quick and dirty quoting method on mobile, just copy and paste the post you want to quote and surround it by quote tags. It won't include the fancy link back to the original post, but unless you're quoting something from pages back, most people should be able to understand what you're replying to.
I hate to be that guy who asks for website features, but-- Is there any chance you could change the quoting tool to automatically collapse a quotation box that exceeds a predetermined length (five lines or so, perhaps) and add a "Click to Expand" link at the bottom of the box? That would reduce the messiness of nested quotations, and it would take the text-editing burden off of mobile users. It works well in this forum: http://forums.sonicretro.org , and it manages to look nice on a mobile device. Just a thought. I'm not sure how easy or difficult that is, or whether it requires some tool that costs a lot of money.
In HTML5, collapsible boxes are really easy to make, since you just have to surround them by the new <details> tag. However, that tag would most likely need to be inserted into the page as part of the parser routine (i.e. whenever you use the quote tag that would need to be translated to also include a <details> tag). That means that we'd have to go in and tinker with the details of the parser routine to get it to emit the tags. The example forum you linked to is running totally different forum software than we are, so that is probably behavior that is built into their forum and not ours.
There is a way to do collapsible boxes in CSS only but I don't know if the forum gives us enough HTML to hook onto that and style it with CSS. CSS handles only presentational details like "make this type of box this big or this color" and is much simpler for us to customize because if it breaks the forum looks ugly for a bit, but it's still usable.
Everyone who is interested in feature requests should know that we don't respond to most of them because any change we make to the internals of the forum software risks breaking the normal output of the forum for everyone. (Or opening a security hole we're not aware of.) And then the next time we update the forum to a new version, we'd have to merge our edit back in and hope that something didn't change elsewhere in the forum code that causes it to break again. Also, that assumes we can even get so far as to understand the way the forum currently works well enough to add something on that plays nice with what's already there, which is not a given, since we didn't write the underlying code ourselves.
It would be much better for feature requests to be directed to the Simple Machines Forum devs, since they actually know how the forum software works and the most technically-sound way of building onto the existing code. Also they would be able to update the code whenever they update other parts of the forum software, and the change would propagate to every SMF forum and not just us.
Quote from: renegade on April 12, 2021, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2021, 01:38:53 PM
... stop using Facebook.
Done! And a long time ago, I might add!
:clap:
I haven't seen the redesigned interface you're all talking about. I didn't like the old one, maybe I'd like the new one better? But probably not if it's made primarily for portable devices.
Quote from: kkt on April 12, 2021, 11:02:54 PM
Quote from: renegade on April 12, 2021, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 12, 2021, 01:38:53 PM
... stop using Facebook.
Done! And a long time ago, I might add!
:clap:
I haven't seen the redesigned interface you're all talking about. I didn't like the old one, maybe I'd like the new one better? But probably not if it's made primarily for portable devices.
That's basically what happened - Facebook decided that they didn't want to maintain separate code bases for mobile apps/the mobile site and the desktop site, so they merged everything together into a mobile-optimized design that doesn't work as well on the desktop as what was there before.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 04:46:50 PM
Is it resistance for the sake of resistance, or is it resistance for the sake of: Why the **** should I be compelled to pay $150 for a full-blown computer that goes obsolete in a few years and $50 per month on top of my already existing phone bill for data? To me, the convenience of Google-on-the-Go isn't worth the cost, especially when it's something I never wanted in the first place!
How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2021, 01:30:06 PM
How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.
The cheapest unlimited-everything plan I know of from T-Mobile is $60 per month. If I could get it for $30, I'd be interested, but $60 is more than I want to spend when I no longer have a high-paying job.
I was paying $20 per month for unlimited talk and text, but when I went to the T-Mobile store this past weekend, they offered a promotion where they gave me a plan for $15 per month with unlimited talk and text and very limited data,
and a free, brand-new smartphone that's at least twice as good as the old one I used to use.
When I had the trucking job, I was paying $70 per month for unlimited everything, which was fair, considering I was making good money.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 13, 2021, 01:55:56 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2021, 01:30:06 PM
How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.
The cheapest unlimited-everything plan I know of from T-Mobile is $60 per month. If I could get it for $30, I'd be interested, but $60 is more than I want to spend when I no longer have a high-paying job.
Yeah, single lines from the big postpaid carriers are pretty high unless you find a good promotion (mine was Sprint Kickstart, they were trying to bolster their subscriber numbers before selling to T-Mobile so they offered a good deal). But you'd probably pay the same thing if you tried to open a new line for a flip phone. For single lines I'd usually recommend their prepaid services, or something like Metro, Cricket, Visible, or Mint. Lots of plans closer to the $30-40 range.
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2021, 07:16:20 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 13, 2021, 01:55:56 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2021, 01:30:06 PM
How much is your cell phone bill? It's not 2008 anymore, data plans don't have to be expensive. I pay $30 a month for unlimited everything on my phone (granted, it is a grandfathered promo plan through T-Mobile, formerly Sprint). There are a lot of very affordable options. Even the big carriers, usually the only plans offered now are for smartphones.
The cheapest unlimited-everything plan I know of from T-Mobile is $60 per month. If I could get it for $30, I'd be interested, but $60 is more than I want to spend when I no longer have a high-paying job.
Yeah, single lines from the big postpaid carriers are pretty high unless you find a good promotion (mine was Sprint Kickstart, they were trying to bolster their subscriber numbers before selling to T-Mobile so they offered a good deal). But you'd probably pay the same thing if you tried to open a new line for a flip phone. For single lines I'd usually recommend their prepaid services, or something like Metro, Cricket, Visible, or Mint. Lots of plans closer to the $30-40 range.
walmart 'straight talk' isn't bad.. for me, $39 phone, $35/month for 5gb, and i rarely use anything close to it since the phone 'aggressively' seeks open wi-fi in town. for $55, you get 25gb and tethering.. cells don't work well at my house (i'm in a canyon)... probably not the latest/greatest phone (its an lg-something) but it works.
I'm creating a bit of a headache at work.
We're currently switching payroll companies, and today was the first day of clocking in on the new site. People clocking in on the smartphone app can only do so if their phone is located within a geofence (i.e., when they're here at the office). Because I have a dumbphone, I clock in through their desktop website, and the site verifies my IP address before allowing me access. Well, a recent firewall upgrade messed with my IP address, but we got that figured out. However, the latest fun is that, in order to do part of my job, I have to lock my computer down on a VPN–and then I end up disallowed from accessing certain features of the payroll site because my IP address no longer matches what's on file.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 03:13:52 PM
I'm creating a bit of a headache at work.
We're currently switching payroll companies, and today was the first day of clocking in on the new site. People clocking in on the smartphone app can only do so if their phone is located within a geofence (i.e., when they're here at the office). Because I have a dumbphone, I clock in through their desktop website, and the site verifies my IP address before allowing me access. Well, a recent firewall upgrade messed with my IP address, but we got that figured out. However, the latest fun is that, in order to do part of my job, I have to lock my computer down on a VPN–and then I end up disallowed from accessing certain features of the payroll site because my IP address no longer matches what's on file.
For every problem computers solve, I have to wonder how many they create.
Actually, that's a bit hyperbolic. The computers themselves aren't guilty since, absent some sort of sapient AI, they have no agency. But people's reliance on computers sure causes problems, and worse, the reliance on software and the endless cycle of bugs and patches sure causes a ton of problems.
Especially when they didn't even have to limit by access by IP to begin with. That's an option.
In this case, the problem is probably management being cheap–every commercial payroll software package I know of (Kronos, Paycom) has the option of using a standalone card-swipe reader that records time punches. Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
In this case, the problem is probably management being cheap–every commercial payroll software package I know of (Kronos, Paycom) has the option of using a standalone card-swipe reader that records time punches. Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.
We haven't used an actual time clock for more than a decade.
And one of those companies you mentioned is the one we're switching to.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
... Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.
True in most cases, but remote employees are a big exception. In addition to jobs that switched to remote during the pandemic, you've also got positions like traveling salesperson that may never have had an expectation of reporting to the office.
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 04:45:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
... Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.
True in most cases, but remote employees are a big exception. In addition to jobs that switched to remote during the pandemic, you've also got positions like traveling salesperson that may never have had an expectation of reporting to the office.
Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out. I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.
Chris
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 04:45:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
... Expecting people to do it on their phone just seems like an attempt to get away from buying an actual time clock.
True in most cases, but remote employees are a big exception. In addition to jobs that switched to remote during the pandemic, you've also got positions like traveling salesperson that may never have had an expectation of reporting to the office.
Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out. I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.
I can't wait until I get a job that pays a real hourly wage again. I refuse to take that salary nonsense if I have a choice.
But yeah, it would be nice if the time clock wasn't some cheap software system. The last job where I got paid an hourly wage, the time clock was a website, and if it was down, you had to send something to your supervisor to let them know. I also hope I can find a job where I'm not at a computer all day, but that's a whole other topic.
Previously, I clocked in on a website that was developed by people within the company. On the other hand, if the internet was down... Well, then nearly everything I do is unavailable. I access data through the web, our phones are VoIP, etc.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out. I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:51:41 PM
Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.
Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out. I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:51:41 PM
Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.
Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.
No, what I meant is that only people who work in this physical building clock in and out
at all. And even many of them don't.
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out. I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:51:41 PM
Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.
Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.
I would say 99% of all salaried people don't have to clock in and out.
Chris
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 05:17:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 04:48:47 PM
Keep in mind, nearly all salaried positions don't require clocking in and out. I'm salaried, but have to log my hours because they're client billable.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:51:41 PM
Everyone who might clock in from home at my company is either salaried or a contractor.
Of course, if you're a salaried employee, the reason you have to clock in and out is for accountability, not to determine how much you get paid.
No, what I meant is that only people who work in this physical building clock in and out at all. And even many of them don't.
Yeah, I knew what you meant... I was just suggesting a reason why some companies might still want their salaried employees to clock in and out.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 05:27:02 PM
I would say 99% of all salaried people don't have to clock in and out.
I know it's common, but I don't think it's 99%. You'd think companies would start figuring out how much more productive people are when they're held accountable (of course, this applies to some positions more than others).
Out of curiosity, webny, what sorts of positions have you worked? I ask because there's a lot of things that seem like common sense in a working environment that end up actually being counterproductive.
For example, requiring salaried employees to clock in and out may just lead to them hanging out at the office when they have no tasks to do (out of a paranoia that they'll get in trouble for not having enough hours) and lead to them becoming resentful about the wasted time or burned out. Or encourage them to overwork themselves because they want to illustrate how hard they're working via their timesheets. There's other side effects too–my mom has been salaried for over a decade, and for a few months her job had salaried employees clock in and out (I think because of some fear that a DOL FLSA ruling applied to them that ended up not actually mattering). She previously had a spotless record, but ended up racking up a bunch of disciplinary actions against her because she kept forgetting to clock in or was late (she was accustomed to coming in whenever she felt like and staying a certain number of hours from her arrival time, which worked better for her because she's a department head in a 24-hour facility, so she liked to come in at different times so she could be available to employees on 2nd and 3rd shifts).
I have had a smartphone since 2012 and have found it to be a very powerful tool for notetaking (using the phone camera), documenting travel (recording where and when I have gone, and logging mileage--my daily driver no longer has a functioning odometer), scouting dining and lodging opportunities when I am on the road, staying on top of my email, keeping up with the news, remaining in touch with friends through text messaging, checking the time, maintaining a travel diary without a laptop, and so on. Very few of these functions can be replaced by a flip phone, which I have never owned.
This said, my computer at home remains the nerve center for serious work. I hardly ever post on forums such as this one when I'm on a mobile device, for example, because it is much more difficult for me to maintain a local copy of each post. I even try to avoid answering emails when I am out and about because it's extra hassle to maintain a local copy. (Google will deposit one in my Sent folder automatically, but that is on the cloud only--I have to send an email from Thunderbird on my local PC in order for copies to be deposited in both the online Sent folder and the local Sent Mail folder. So if I send an email while out and about, I must manually copy it over to the Sent Mail folder in Thunderbird.)
I do agree that smartphones can exacerbate social media addiction by furnishing a convenient delivery system. Though this may not be universally true, the main driver in my case is variable-interval reinforcement since the likes, comments, and other signifiers of positive engagement ("dopamine hits") come at unpredictable times. I limit the platforms I interact with--I'm active on Facebook only (Myspace and Google+ are dead, and I hardly look at Twitter). I also haven't installed the Facebook app on any mobile devices, though I have Messenger on a tablet, and am very aggressive about disabling lockscreen notifications.
I rarely carry my phone and hardly ever on my body. It spends about 95% of the time on a charger within my sight, but not my reach, as I sit at my computer. When I am out and about in my car, I usually leave it in the trunk unless I'm using it to communicate food orders. I typically carry a book to read so I don't default to my phone to amuse myself while waiting. My phone is hardly ever in my bedroom.
I've never been tempted to "live" on my phone since my working style depends very heavily on file choosers. On my phone and tablet (both Android), I've had to install ES File Explorer (file chooser) and Android Terminal Emulator to make them tractable. I've accepted that if I want to surf the Web on a mobile device, I will have to put up with a lot more advertising and unwanted website behavior, because it is much harder to install an ad-blocking HOSTS file (I think it can be done on Android without rooting, but requires developer tools). Having given up on Microsoft Word long ago except for collaboration, I write mostly in plain text (I use LaTeX when I need rich formatting), and have struggled to find capable text editors for Android. (I've settled on iA Writer as my Notepad++ killer.)
I also try to keep sustained screen-typing to a minimum on mobile devices, and have thus been around the block several times with Bluetooth keyboards. I've never found a folding design with keys large enough for me to type in comfort, or sturdy enough to accommodate my ballistic typing style. (At my computer I use a fairly heavy 102-key wireless keyboard that feels like a Model M clone--it's still going strong after 15 years, though the labeling on seven out of eight home keys is no longer legible.) At one point I had a cheap Amazon Basics keyboard that worked tolerably well until the O key stopped responding (the word on StackExchange was something like "Don't bother us unless you're prepared to solder the circuit board"). Now I use a Logitech K480 that has heavy, sturdy construction, full-size keys, and an inset molded rail with rubber liner for holding uncased devices. It works well, aside from a delay built into Shift that is just long enough to interfere with smooth typing.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 16, 2021, 06:36:54 PM
I have had a smartphone since 2012 and have found it to be a very powerful tool for ... documenting travel (recording where and when I have gone ...)
This is the feature I'll miss the most. I used to use a GPS tracker app for road trips. However, I was already realizing it was using too much data, so I would probably have been looking for an alternate solution anyway.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 06:28:59 PM
Out of curiosity, webny, what sorts of positions have you worked? I ask because there's a lot of things that seem like common sense in a working environment that end up actually being counterproductive. ...
I've had a bit of experience across the spectrum, having worked first on a warehouse floor and now in an office job. My jobs have ranged from inventory control to billing to customer service (the latter only in a limited capacity). I've never been in sales or marketing, and may never be, since I'm fairly a fairly reserved and analytical guy - not a very good fit for customer facing jobs. So I suppose just by human nature I'm thinking critically about those who hold sales and marketing positions when I mention accountability, especially since those are the types of jobs that require a bit more intuition and give and take in terms of productivity and results.
I certainly take your point about the quest for accountability being counter-productive in certain contexts - but I get the sense the contexts you mention are mostly in an office or similar setting, while I'm thinking more about people that don't have to report in-person, such as a traveling salesperson. In that case, requiring them to clock in is more of a measure to make sure they feel responsible to actually be available and "working" (whatever that might involve) during normal business hours, and don't sleep just sleep in until noon or spend the afternoon at the beach just because they feel like it.
Sales jobs tend to–or at one point in the past tended to–enforce accountability through commission-based pay. Which makes sense; obviously a salesman who shows up on time every day, diligently puts in his hours, and never successfully convinces anyone to buy a damn thing is a total waste of money.
Marketing is a lot closer to your typical office job because it's more of a slow-burn, ongoing campaign, not something where you're face-to-face with a customer. Write copy for this week's mass sales email, design this advertisement, look at the numbers and see which ads are converting to sales and which need to be pulled or replaced. Marketing is a lot more analytical than sales; over the long term you're basically trying different things and seeing which ones cause the sales figures to increase and which don't.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:20:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
...(Kronos, Paycom)...
We haven't used an actual time clock for more than a decade.
And one of those companies you mentioned is the one we're switching to.
I hope for your sake it's Paycom. At the casino they used Kronos and it was a dinosaur. Clearly written by salaried employees...
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 08:54:45 PM
Marketing is a lot more analytical than sales; over the long term you're basically trying different things and seeing which ones cause the sales figures to increase and which don't.
I think I'd enjoy the analytical side of it, but not the creative side. Just thinking about designing an advertisement, for example, gives me a bit of a headache.
Quote from: webny99 on April 16, 2021, 09:20:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2021, 08:54:45 PM
Marketing is a lot more analytical than sales; over the long term you're basically trying different things and seeing which ones cause the sales figures to increase and which don't.
I think I'd enjoy the analytical side of it, but not the creative side. Just thinking about designing an advertisement, for example, gives me a bit of a headache.
That can be a pretty big chore, since there's a good amount of psychology involved with marketing as well, plus creative arts like graphic design and writing. It's a weird field.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 07:18:58 PMThis is the feature I'll miss the most. I used to use a GPS tracker app for road trips. However, I was already realizing it was using too much data, so I would probably have been looking for an alternate solution anyway.
Which app were you using? The one I've used since 2015 or so is Mendhak GPS Logger (for Android), which is now no longer maintained but is still available as a sideload. I don't think it uses any data at all since, unlike Google MyTracks and some others, it doesn't have the ability to display GPS logs and thus doesn't have to download map tiles over wifi or a mobile data connection. (I have two separate apps for displaying GPS logs, which I invariably record in GPX format, and they both take the underlying mapping from Google Maps. GPX Viewer is the more user-friendly and can also display graphs of speed versus distance travelled and time elapsed since journey start. Gpx Viewer--note case difference--is more bare-bones but, unlike the other, will display disjoint track segments as separate traces, and thus makes it easier to see dropouts and undesired pauses in recording.)
I especially like the fact that Mendhak GPS Logger records to files (using an user-configurable filename template) in internal device memory or on the SD card, rather than to one of the Android databases. This means that GPS logs can be copied over to a PC for permanent archiving simply by plugging in the phone (or other mobile device) using the same USB cable that is used for charging. As a general rule, data cannot be extracted to file from the Android databases unless the recording app includes that functionality or a separate backup/data extraction app is used (I have one for my text messages), which is another reason I think it's a bad idea to try living on a mobile device. Recent versions of the GPS Logger app also offer automated backup to a variety of cloud services such as Google Drive.
I was using Geo Tracker.
I had two occasions where having a smartphone came in extremely handy. Last night, my mother and I went to a concert at the WinSpear Opera House. The parking near the venue was a "pay in advance" where you had to scan a barcode to get to a secure web page, then put in the license plate and either pay by credit card or use PayPal. Then, a few months ago, I had to drop off a broken ironing board since it would not be taken by the garbage collector. In addition to my identification, they wanted either a city utility bill proving residency or $51 bucks. Three minutes later, I pulled up my bill on my phone and showed it to the gate which was accepted as proof.
Yes, I will continue to call my phone my "electronic leash", but at least it's extremely handy for curbside pickup.
^^^
$51 to dispose of an old ironing board? What a ripoff. And the fact that your garbage collection service won't take it is another ripoff.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 31, 2021, 07:49:02 PM$51 to dispose of an old ironing board? What a ripoff. And the fact that your garbage collection service won't take it is another ripoff.
$51 only if I didn't provide proof of residency of the city I lived in via a city utility bill. And, it was not enough for a Brush and Bulky Item Collection (BABIC) collection because it did not exceed 50 pounds.
Quote from: ZLoth on December 31, 2021, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 31, 2021, 07:49:02 PM$51 to dispose of an old ironing board? What a ripoff. And the fact that your garbage collection service won't take it is another ripoff.
$51 only if I didn't provide proof of residency of the city I lived in via a city utility bill. And, it was not enough for a Brush and Bulky Item Collection (BABIC) collection because it did not exceed 50 pounds.
Bend it, break it, stomp it, chop it with tin snips, and put it in your regular garbage.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 01, 2022, 03:12:34 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on December 31, 2021, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 31, 2021, 07:49:02 PM$51 to dispose of an old ironing board? What a ripoff. And the fact that your garbage collection service won't take it is another ripoff.
$51 only if I didn't provide proof of residency of the city I lived in via a city utility bill. And, it was not enough for a Brush and Bulky Item Collection (BABIC) collection because it did not exceed 50 pounds.
Bend it, break it, stomp it, chop it with tin snips, and put it in your regular garbage.
Contemplate how long it's going to take to break it into pieces small enough for the garbage, and how much your time and dignity are worth.
Honestly, depending on what kind of metal it's made of and how close one is, it might be wisest to tear off any fabric/foam/plastic coating and take it to a metal scrapper. Steel prices are kind of ridiculous right now, but even if it was aluminum, you'd at least get paid a few bucks for it.
Someone I lived with in east Baltimore in the spring of 2020 had a flip phone.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 01, 2022, 04:35:16 PMHonestly, depending on what kind of metal it's made of and how close one is, it might be wisest to tear off any fabric/foam/plastic coating and take it to a metal scrapper. Steel prices are kind of ridiculous right now, but even if it was aluminum, you'd at least get paid a few bucks for it.
The waste transfer station is just 1¼ miles away from where I live, but because of the roundabout route to get there, it's a three mile/10 minute drive from where I live. Thus, it was one of several errands I ran in July.
Sigh.... I hate silliness and pettiness of embracing a closed app ecosystem like this:
From DroidLife:
Google Goes After Apple's iMessage and "Bullying"QuoteDuring Apple's very public battle with Epic over the App Store and Fortnite, we learned a lot about the history of iMessage and how Apple's executives were at one point split over whether or not to bring it to Android. The side that wanted to keep the messaging service as an Apple exclusive won the battle, leading us to a place where iMessage very much has a tight grip on iPhone users who have a fear of switching to an Android phone and becoming a "green bubble" in conversations with friends.
In a piece written by the Wall Street Journal over the weekend, several stories of iMessage being used to create tension between friends or in dating situations were shared. The stories, which focused mostly on teens and the shaming that can happen if one of their friends owns an Android phone and brings a green bubble to their conversation, aren't new. We've heard all of this before. It has been well documented that the younger population isn't fond of an Android user in their messaging space.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (https://markholtz.info/2hx)
Oh, yeah, being deliberately incompatible with other company's software is a tradition going back 50 years or more.
Almost as if anti-trust laws aren't being enforced.
I'm hoping the EU steps up to force Apple to play nice with the open standards, like they've been trying to do with USB-C.
Quote from: ZLoth on January 10, 2022, 03:48:08 PM
Sigh.... I hate silliness and pettiness of embracing a closed app ecosystem like this...
Yeah, but for rest of us that use our phone messages like adults do, there's little difference. Words and maybe an emoji, wait for the incoming response or send a photo. Don't they all do that? I don't need an animated response, I'll just junk that.
I didn't even realize I could "like" a text until I accidentally pressed it too long.
iMessage tells you when the other person is typing and also if they've read the text even if they haven't replied. Standard text messages don't.
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2022, 08:19:56 PM
iMessage tells you when the other person is typing and also if they've read the text even if they haven't replied. Standard text messages don't.
RCS should be able to handle it, along with the features that iMessage provides. But so do all the chat apps used around the world (and are more popular than iMessage).
Personally, I prefer Telegram.
Quote from: formulanone on January 10, 2022, 08:12:59 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on January 10, 2022, 03:48:08 PM
Sigh.... I hate silliness and pettiness of embracing a closed app ecosystem like this...
Yeah, but for rest of us that use our phone messages like adults do, there's little difference. Words and maybe an emoji, wait for the incoming response or send a photo. Don't they all do that? I don't need an animated response, I'll just junk that.
I didn't even realize I could "like" a text until I accidentally pressed it too long.
The first time I got one of those, it was from my aunt reacting to a photo I sent her. Since I don't have an iPhone, I got a text message that just said "Laughed at an image". Not knowing this was an iPhone feature, my first thought was "Welp, she's finally lost it." It wasn't until I told my iPhone-using wife about it the next morning that I learned what was actually going on.
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2022, 08:19:56 PM
iMessage tells you when the other person is typing and also if they've read the text even if they haven't replied. Standard text messages don't.
I usually don't want the other person to know that information. Typing notifications are really only useful in a group chat situation to prevent people from stepping on each other. Read receipts can cause an expectation that you owe the other person a reply, when you may still need some time to ruminate on what to send back, if anything.
Quote from: Bruce on January 10, 2022, 08:36:50 PM
Personally, I prefer Telegram.
Discord is my message service of choice, mostly because it has a good desktop client. If I get a message that requires a kind of involved response, I can hold off until I'm near an actual keyboard, or ring the person up on voice. Also, its log search capabilities are pretty impressive, and the ability to pin messages for later reference is incredibly useful.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 10, 2022, 08:40:48 PM
I usually don't want the other person to know that information. Typing notifications are really only useful in a group chat situation to prevent people from stepping on each other. Read receipts can cause an expectation that you owe the other person a reply, when you may still need some time to ruminate on what to send back, if anything.
Agreed. I find messaging to be far more stressful than texting, for exactly that reason. Although I suspect that the reason we don't like those features may be the same reason others want them.
You can turn off read receipts in iMessage. Go to the Settings app, then Messages, then turn off "Send Read Receipts." Alternatively, you can do it on a contact-specific basis.
I don't know whether that turns off the typing notifications.
Yesterday afternoon, I had to leave for a dentist appointment while my mother was out and about. And, my mother set off the home alarm system. While I was waiting at the dentist's office, I was able to:
- Verify via the driveway camera on a camera app that my mother had arrived home.
- Clear the alarm condition on the Alarm app.
- Answer the call from the alarm company to verify it was a false alarm.
- Contact my mother to let her know that I cleared the alarm.
Apparently, even though it is on the home screen of her phone, my mother couldn't locate the alarm company app. Without my smartphone, I would have to have bailed on my dentist appointment and rescheduled.
Quote from: vdeane on January 10, 2022, 08:59:32 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on January 10, 2022, 08:40:48 PMI usually don't want the other person to know that information. Typing notifications are really only useful in a group chat situation to prevent people from stepping on each other. Read receipts can cause an expectation that you owe the other person a reply, when you may still need some time to ruminate on what to send back, if anything.
Agreed. I find messaging to be far more stressful than texting, for exactly that reason. Although I suspect that the reason we don't like those features may be the same reason others want them.
I use an Android phone, so I don't have iMessage, but I do use Facebook PMs/Messenger reasonably frequently, and it has both read and typing notifications. My experience has generally been that only a few specific people at a time use them as tools to determine whether I have eyes on the conversation. I take the position that, courtesy aside, we are all entitled to a measure of autonomy, and if someone is going to take me to task for not adhering to his or her expectations of availability, then those must have been laid out in advance and I must have agreed to them.
I generally try to telegraph what I am willing to undertake by noting that I often don't carry my phone with me or even have it in the same room, that I put it in the trunk of my car when I'm out and about locally, and so on. I also try to communicate that I won't ask of others what I am not myself willing to do. From this standpoint, notifications function for me more as tools to indicate whether the other party is still in the conversation so I don't inadvertently exit before it has reached a natural stopping place.
To my mind, a distinction exists between read notifications in interactive and semi-interactive communications media, such as SMS and various messaging platforms, and email. I almost never allow return receipts to be sent in respect of emails I receive, nor do I configure my email client to send them automatically. I have also never requested a return receipt. To my mind, return receipts make more sense in a closed communications ecosystem, such as within a firm where employees are required to respond to emails in a certain way and are paid to do so. If there is a matter for which I genuinely need a response and one isn't forthcoming by email, I will follow up by some other means.
If you need receipt that I've read something, use the Phone app. It's even compatible with Blackberry.
The icon looks somewhat like a phone receiver from the days of yore.
I didn't know that green-message ostracizing was a thing until this thread.
The advantage of iMessage is that it's dependent on data, not voice. So if you are in an area with no cell service, but you have wi-fi (like the motel where my brother and I stayed in Mexican Hat, Utah, last summer) you can still communicate. You can also message with an iPad, iPod Touch, or Mac laptop if you have wi-fi or a wired Internet connection. It used the device's logged-in AppleID, not a phone number, for the communication -- for the most part, my mother- and sister-in-law use the same AppleID on their phones as my sis-in-law holds the account and set up her mom's phone, and a couple of years ago they had issues with messaging coming from or too the wrong person.
Not sure how Google/Android would leverage a messaging system that uses Apple's protocols.
While it is true that you can turn off read receipts in iMessage, you can't for Facebook Messenger.
I know nothing about WhatsApp, but wouldn't it be a cross-platform data-dependent messaging system?
There's always Google Voice, which will run on any device as well as through a web interface.