Counties referred to like cities

[empirestate]

So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.

Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.

(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)

[hotdogPi]

Arlington, VA

[webny99]

So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.

On the other side of the Hudson, Rockland County is sometimes referred to as just "Rockland", at least in my experience.

[Ned Weasel]

So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.

Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.

St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."

(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)

Good, so my example still counts, because St. Louis County is separate from the city of St. Louis, which is not in any county.

Oh, also Wyandotte County, Kansas is often just called "Wyandotte."  Sometimes "The Dotte," if you're cool enough, I guess.

[Flint1979]

Out of Michigan's 83 counties I can't think of an example we always say County like Wayne County when we are talking about counties here.

[OCGuy81]

I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.

[ClassicHasClass]

Are we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?

[Ketchup99]

My first thought was Westchester and Rockland. Then I saw those were the impetus for the thread.

[Rothman]

Orange County, CA

[JayhawkCO]

I'd argue Napa and Sonoma refer more to the counties than the cities. 

Chris

[JayhawkCO]

Orange County, CA

If I'm not mistaken, I think the OP is referring to situations where the word "county" isn't used.  No one just says Orange.

Chris

[empirestate]

Arlington, VA

That's an interesting one! While Arlington isn't separately a city, it does act like one (and Census-wise, it is an unincorporated place that is consolidated with a county). I think it's more a peculiarity of this county than of linguistics–are there other counties in Virginia or around DC that also would fit?

On the other side of the Hudson, Rockland County is sometimes referred to as just "Rockland", at least in my experience.

Yes, I had that thought too. You'll also hear it to a lesser extent with Dutchess, Putnam and maybe Ulster. But, I think that's a local parlance; I'm not sure you'd ever hear Rockland County referred to as "Rockland, NY" for a national audience–even from a newscast originating in New York. Still, the local usage is significant, as it illustrates that the individual towns and villages there are probably less well known, even to neighbors, than the county itself.

(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)

Good, so my example still counts, because St. Louis County is separate from the city of St. Louis, which is not in any county.

It would, I suppose, as long as the reference is to the county as a place distinct and separate from St. Louis city or its metro area. In other words, someone would say "St. Louis, Missouri" and not expect the listener to think of St. Louis city.

I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.

Marin might be a candidate. I was sure there must be somewhere in CA, and I've definitely heard "Marin" without "county".

Are we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?

If they have the same name, no. I suppose it would count if, say, somebody referred to Davidson, TN or Marion, IN to refer to the capitals of those states.

Orange County, CA

That one I haven't heard. My wife is from there, and we visit regularly–I can't say I've ever heard anyone call it just "Orange". (And they don't do it in NY, either, notwithstanding the practice in neighboring counties.)

I'm thinking the Mid-Atlantic is where we're most likely to find it–places where counties are strong, and suburban towns and villages have relatively little prominence as political entities, but considerable importance as separate regions within a greater metro area.

[Dirt Roads]

I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.

Similarly, folks in Richmond, Virginia use the term "down in Chesterfield" like a city name to describe most of the county.  Back not so long ago, the still unincorporated Chesterfield Court House wasn't much more than the government facilities.  There are some placenames still used regularly (Bon Air and Chester come to mind), so the whole county isn't included.

[Road Hog]

Gwinnett comes to mind.

[webny99]

On the other side of the Hudson, Rockland County is sometimes referred to as just "Rockland", at least in my experience.

Yes, I had that thought too. You'll also hear it to a lesser extent with Dutchess, Putnam and maybe Ulster. But, I think that's a local parlance; I'm not sure you'd ever hear Rockland County referred to as "Rockland, NY" for a national audience–even from a newscast originating in New York. Still, the local usage is significant, as it illustrates that the individual towns and villages there are probably less well known, even to neighbors, than the county itself.
...

I'm thinking the Mid-Atlantic is where we're most likely to find it–places where counties are strong, and suburban towns and villages have relatively little prominence as political entities, but considerable importance as separate regions within a greater metro area.

What's interesting about Rockland is that the five towns that comprise the county really don't mean much, and are barely used when referring to locations within the county. I suspect Westchester might be similar. For example, if you asked me to name five locations in Rockland County, none of them would be the actual town names. I'd probably pick five of the "hamlet and census-designated place(s)" (as Google calls them). I had never even heard of the town of Ramapo until a few years ago, and was stunned to learn that it's one of the most populous towns in the state. Similar situation with Clarkstown.

Your last point about this being more common in the Mid-Atlantic is an interesting one. It does seem be a phenomenon that mostly occurs in the suburbs. As such, the best Upstate candidates would probably be Saratoga and Niagara - I have actually heard the latter in everyday conversation, as in "We're going to Niagara today" - perhaps the prominence of Niagara Falls makes "Niagara" understandable for use in reference to the Falls and/or the area as a whole.

Ontario County, meanwhile (the closest thing we have to a suburban county here in Rochester), has the opposite problem: "Ontario County" is quite commonly used to refer to the general area it comprises, but the "County" qualifier is extremely necessary given the nearby town, province, and lake with the same name.

[kphoger]

(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)

Are we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?

Based on the OP, I assume not.  Slightly different, but only on a technicality.

Orange County, CA

That one I haven't heard. My wife is from there, and we visit regularly–I can't say I've ever heard anyone call it just "Orange". (And they don't do it in NY, either, notwithstanding the practice in neighboring counties.)

I've only been to LA twice, but I assumed people meant the city of Orange when they just said "Orange" without "County" after it.

[kphoger]

St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."

Seriously?  That's so wrong...

[andrepoiy]

Happens sometimes in Greater Toronto Area...

Sometimes they just say "Durham" or "York" or "Halton" or "Peel", without the word "Region".

[jmacswimmer]

When I was in Jacksonville for the Bears-Jaguars game week 16, I noticed that TIAA Bank Field had huge banners set up behind the benches that read: "DUUUUUUVAL".  Is this just a Jaguars thing, or do people around the area often refer to the county as just "Duval"?

St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."

Seriously?  That's so wrong...

Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City.  (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)

[webny99]

St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."

Seriously?  That's so wrong...

Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City.  (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)

Yeah, I was actually thinking of Baltimore when the St. Louis city/county discrepancy was mentioned.

It's not necessarily always clear which one is being referred to, which is where it gets a little tricky. If someone from Bel Air says they're going to Baltimore, but their destination is actually in the county, not the city, does that mean it counts as an example, or is it just dismissed as a technicality? Kind of depends on the starting point, too. I'd certainly lean towards calling it a technicality for any starting point beyond Baltimore's own exurbs (and apply the same logic to St. Louis).

[OCGuy81]

What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)

[kphoger]

What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)

That's really no different than "the Panhandle".

[JayhawkCO]

When I was in Jacksonville for the Bears-Jaguars game week 16, I noticed that TIAA Bank Field had huge banners set up behind the benches that read: "DUUUUUUVAL".  Is this just a Jaguars thing, or do people around the area often refer to the county as just "Duval"?

It's just Jaguars branding.  When I lived there, no one referenced it that way.  I did have a friend who grew up there and when I had moved away, we used it as a joke term, as in something that could only happen in Jax was very Duval.

Chris

[Takumi]

I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.

Similarly, folks in Richmond, Virginia use the term "down in Chesterfield" like a city name to describe most of the county.  Back not so long ago, the still unincorporated Chesterfield Court House wasn't much more than the government facilities.  There are some placenames still used regularly (Bon Air and Chester come to mind), so the whole county isn't included.

Midlothian has become like this now that it's had major growth in the past 20 years or so. Before that, growing up in the 90s if we were going to Midlothian we'd just say we were going to Richmond. Now it (and Short Pump) are big in their own right.

[empirestate]

What's interesting about Rockland is that the five towns that comprise the county really don't mean much, and are barely used when referring to locations within the county. I suspect Westchester might be similar. For example, if you asked me to name five locations in Rockland County, none of them would be the actual town names. I'd probably pick five of the "hamlet and census-designated place(s)" (as Google calls them). I had never even heard of the town of Ramapo until a few years ago, and was stunned to learn that it's one of the most populous towns in the state. Similar situation with Clarkstown.

Yes, the reason is very much the same for both. And it's very much a Downstate thing–you'll find it as well, and perhaps even more so, in Nassau and Suffolk. Heck, the town of Hempstead is the second-largest municipality in all of New York, but the towns and even many of the villages are almost unknown in these counties. Of course, in this case you don't need to say "Nassau, NY" or "Suffolk, NY" because you can just say "Long Island, NY" (and people definitely do say that, very often).

The difference, I think, between Rockland and Westchester is that the cities and villages of Westchester are more distinct and better-known locally. It's only on a national scale where the name "Westchester" carries more recognition that White Plains or Mount Kisco or even Yonkers. Whereas in Rockland, even the county name isn't quite universally known, so it can't stand on its own the way Westchester can.

Your last point about this being more common in the Mid-Atlantic is an interesting one. It does seem be a phenomenon that mostly occurs in the suburbs. As such, the best Upstate candidates would probably be Saratoga and Niagara - I have actually heard the latter in everyday conversation, as in "We're going to Niagara today" - perhaps the prominence of Niagara Falls makes "Niagara" understandable for use in reference to the Falls and/or the area as a whole.

Those are good examples, the only difficulty being that it's hard to tell if "Saratoga" and "Niagara" are being used as the actual county names, or merely as abbreviations for Saratoga Springs and Niagara Falls. I think the former is more likely in Saratoga County, since it has considerable suburban area that is part of the Capital District and yet distinct from Saratoga Springs. Still, the test would be whether you could tell an Ohioan or Texan that you're from "Saratoga, NY" and have them understand that you mean Clifton Park and not Saratoga Springs. (For Niagara, I am sure that you would always evoke the city on the falls, not North Tonawanda or Lockport, in that scenario.)

Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City.  (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)

I have no doubt that Baltimore County would be a very likely candidate, if only it had a name different from the city. (On the other hand, Montgomery and Prince George's counties don't seem to qualify, so maybe not.)

It's not necessarily always clear which one is being referred to, which is where it gets a little tricky. If someone from Bel Air says they're going to Baltimore, but their destination is actually in the county, not the city, does that mean it counts as an example, or is it just dismissed as a technicality? Kind of depends on the starting point, too. I'd certainly lean towards calling it a technicality for any starting point beyond Baltimore's own exurbs (and apply the same logic to St. Louis).

If I heard that, I'd be positive that they were referring to a location in the greater city of Baltimore, irrespective of any political boundary. Imagine introducing yourself at an out-of-town social function. "I'm from Baltimore, Maryland." Would you ever say that expecting the other person to understand that you're not from Baltimore itself, but from some separate and distinct place?

What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)

It's not a county, so it would be a different phenomenon (you'd never say "Inland Empire County" in the first place, so the absence of "county" has no significance). But there are certainly regional names that can be used in the City, State format–see also "Long Island, NY" above. In that respect it might indeed be similar.