County governments are pretty much a subdivision of the state. However, in some states there are no county governments such as CT and RI and even some counties in MA are abolished. In VA you have either a county or a city being the division of the state's land area which is why Arlington has no incorporated communities within its borders.
In VT, you have no county seats but you have Shires instead, In LA you have Parishes instead of counties but function the same way as counties, but in Alaska you have boroughs that function as counties, but limited powers. In NY, you have counties which are really a group of towns and cities (except NYC) together where the individual towns assume most of the powers that many states give powers to such as Florida.
In Hawaii, although they have 5 counties their delegation is different as education is not a power granted to them by the state government as they have control over all schooling within the State.
Bottom line it is very interesting to learn that counties differ in roles from state to state and that some states have no county governments at all while some states have county governments over certain areas while there are some that are counties in name only and even, lets say, Kings County in NY within a state with county governments, has no entity in politics at a county level but has the municipality acting as the roles of the other remaining counties with the Empire State. I imagine that only a few states share the same as far as county roles go to exact T. In fact very few states see the definition of a county as the same.
As mentioned before, there's been no county government in Connecticut since 1960, and even then it was super limited from the mid-1800's to then.
Even then I still found the former Windham County courthouse. I have no clue what the building is used now, but it's not a courthouse, since there's one on CT 66 on the other side of Willimantic:
(https://i.imgur.com/s8z5qso.png)
In Illinois, there are 102 of them, and they take care of the unincorporated areas, county highways (even within municipalities), and some functions even within municipalities. These functions can vary by county. A rural county such as LaSalle will have a health department (responsible for restaurant inspections), a highway department, a land use department (for unincorporated areas), a court system, a sheriff's department (policing in unincorporated areas and to serve notices), a recorder, and a tax assessor. Cook, on the other hand, even has a hospital and issues permits for asbestos abatement within the county, outside of Chicago. 101 of the counties have county boards with county board presidents (including Cook). Will has a county executive and a county board. the county seat is where the courthouse and most county functions are headquartered. The courts are handled at the county level (except for some traffic courts).
Functions such as education are handled at the school district level. There are no county-run schools, nor municipal-run schools (even the Chicago Public Schools is its own district independent of the City of Chicago). Townships also have functions. Usually they maintain streets and roads outside of the municipalities (not including county highways), and have services for seniors, some have tax assessors (usually delegated by the county assessor). They do not do police or fire functions. There's a separate fire protection district for that (some municipalities have their own fire department).
Government entities in Illinois can vary from library districts to forest preserve districts (usually co-terminus with their county), mosquito abatement districts, sewerage districts (the MWRDGC is the largest), fire protection districts, school districts (K-8, 9-12, and K-12), and community college districts (I'm sure I haven't gotten them all). Some of these cross county lines, some don't. Some are subject to the county, most aren't. Then municipalities commonly cross county lines. Aurora is a major example, being in Kane, DuPage, Kendall, and Will Counties.
County boundaries are used for defining areas in Illinois. IDOT districts are by county lines (IDOT District 1 is Lake, McHenry, Kane, DuPage, Cook, and Will). Illinois State Police Districts commonly follow county lines (except for ISP D2 and District Chicago). Only the following counties may have red light cameras: McHenry, Lake, Kane, DuPage, Cook, Will, Madison, and St. Clair. They also are the only counties requiring emissions inspections (every 2 years on a vehicle 5 years or older).
In Massachusetts, most county government was abolished by 2000. However, counties still exist for the purposes of law enforcement (sheriffs and courts) and for registry of certain records (births, deaths, deeds).
West Virginia:
WV counties are the basic unit of government. The county is governed by a three person County Commission (formerly and still informally called the County Court). However this is not a very powerful office as WV has no county roads (roads signed as "county" in WV are still under the DOH) and the Commission is required to fund the various county offices and after that there is little left to discression. It gets about 30% of the property tax. The real power in the County Commission is if the voters fund extra services, like water, sewer, airport, industrial parks, "free" clinics, adult education, etc. which the money (and the make-work jobs) flows through the Commission. Some counties have zoning, but this is rare, WVians generally don't care for zoning.
The county offices are County Clerk (deeds and wills and like that), Circuit Clerk (court records), Sheriff (also collects taxes, and is the basic police force outside of incorporated towns), Assessor (in modern times a rubber stamp office as the state does all that work today), Prosecuting Attorney (who is also the county's civil attorney), and Surveyor (an unpaid office).
The county is also the school district. 55 counties-55 school districts. There is a 5 person school board, elected. It gets the other 70% of the property tax, plus millions in state tax money in return for meeting state standards (at any one time 5 to 10 counties are under state control due to poor test scores). There are a couple of multi-county schools, but this is handled by one county paying the other its pro-rata share.
Every county has a non-lawyer Magistrate Court (small claims and misdemeanors), and then there is the Family Court (divorce) and Circuit Court (everything else) which will be one county or several smaller counties sharing, but when they share the judge has to travel to each county, cannot conduct one county's business in another.
As roads have gotten better and the population has declined, there have been calls for county consolidations, but these will never get anywhere. There have also been attempts to have merged city-county systems, and it is legal, but has never happened. Unlike VA, cities are still a part of the county they are located in, it is just an extra layer of government.
Quote from: JJBers on July 14, 2017, 01:02:33 PM
As mentioned before, there's been no county government in Connecticut since 1960, and even then it was super limited from the mid-1800's to then.
Even then I still found the former Windham County courthouse. I have no clue what the building is used now, but it's not a courthouse, since there's one on CT 66 on the other side of Willimantic:
(https://i.imgur.com/s8z5qso.png)
To imagine what it's like to live in a county governmentless state, think about what's it like in a independent city in Virginia/other states, and and make it every town/city.
Quote from: JJBers on July 14, 2017, 01:40:35 PM
To imagine what it's like to live in a county governmentless state, think about what's it like in a independent city in Virginia/other states, and and make it every town/city.
Virtually impossible in a state like Illinois where there is a lot of unincorporated land that belongs to no municipality. However, that unincorporated land is annexable to a municipality if the landowner agrees to annexation. This can lead to some rather interestingly-shaped municipalities (cities, villages, and towns (of which there are only 19)).
Examples:
Village of Bolingbrook (https://goo.gl/maps/iDz23gezeTu), population 73,000.
City of Joliet (https://goo.gl/maps/grk2ALG5juo), population 148,000.
Town of Courtland (https://goo.gl/maps/wHjWuxT8jn42), population 4,200.
Note the bizarre shapes of them when compared to, say, a New England municipality.
For starters, Illinois annexation law: http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=006500050HArt%2E+7+Div%2E+1&ActID=802&ChapterID=14&SeqStart=64600000&SeqEnd=70000000
Counties are pretty important in Kentucky.
Quote from: Brandon on July 14, 2017, 01:48:57 PM
Quote from: JJBers on July 14, 2017, 01:40:35 PM
To imagine what it's like to live in a county governmentless state, think about what's it like in a independent city in Virginia/other states, and and make it every town/city.
Virtually impossible in a state like Illinois where there is a lot of unincorporated land that belongs to no municipality. However, that unincorporated land is annexable to a municipality if the landowner agrees to annexation. This can lead to some rather interestingly-shaped municipalities (cities, villages, and towns (of which there are only 19)).
Examples:
Village of Bolingbrook (https://goo.gl/maps/iDz23gezeTu), population 73,000.
City of Joliet (https://goo.gl/maps/grk2ALG5juo), population 148,000.
Town of Courtland (https://goo.gl/maps/wHjWuxT8jn42), population 4,200.
Note the bizarre shapes of them when compared to, say, a New England municipality.
For starters, Illinois annexation law: http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=006500050HArt%2E+7+Div%2E+1&ActID=802&ChapterID=14&SeqStart=64600000&SeqEnd=70000000
So, if you have enough money and time, you can become your own town. Cool.
In Texas, the constitution defines counties as political subdivisions of the state. It once had a section for home-rule counties, but it was repealed. Consistent with the small-government views here, counties have very limited function. Counties provide roads outside of cities and off the state highway system, law enforcement, and such basic things. They have little authority to pass ordinances, which state law calls orders, or regulate land development, which is gradually leading to a huge mess in some areas. Cities, though, can regulate land development within their extra-territorial jurisdiction, which is as much as 5 miles from the city limit.
In addition to JP courts, each county has a constitutional county court. In larger counties where one court isn't adequate, the legislature establishes statutory county courts. These handle minor civil cases and misdemeanors. More major cases are handled by district courts. Judicial districts cover one or more counties, and are districts of the state itself. District courts essentially act as functions of the county, and sessions are held in the county courts buildings, but they're technically state courts, not a part of the county. Because of this, each county has a county clerk and a district clerk.
The basic layers of government, cities, counties, and school districts are all political subdivisions, arms of state government carrying out a particular set of functions over a particular area. There is one exception, the Stafford Municipal School District, which is run by the city of Stafford. These subdivisions overlap and their boundaries are unrelated. City boundaries cross county lines and school district boundaries cross city and county boundaries with no difficulty or practical effect. Some people have a hard time understanding that, especially because school districts and schools are usually named after a city, and students may attend school in that district even though they're from another city, sometimes a city that has another school district named after it. (There may be a city A and city B, each with a district named after it, A ISD and B ISD, and a student in city B may attend school in A ISD.)
I mention school districts because they're a good example of how different governments are unrelated in Texas. If a city annexes land, this has the effect of cancelling the county orders and replacing them with city ordinances in the annexed area, as well as causing the county roads in that area to transfer to the city. County orders apply mostly (maybe only) to unincorporated areas. Only the most basic county functions have effect in cities: courts, law enforcement, tax collection, elections, and such. The counties don't have much power besides those things, but those, such as roads and orders, don't function inside cities. I'd say that in Texas the basic level of government is the city, if you live in one. If not, I'd say it's the state. You deal with the state through the county, but the county is a very thin layer of government; other than very specific things, such as speed limits on county roads, it's mainly there just to enforce state laws. Unlike cities, the rules really don't change if you move between unincorporated areas in different counties (excluding the effect of cities' extra-territorial jurisdiction).
Quote from: JJBers on July 14, 2017, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 14, 2017, 01:48:57 PM
Quote from: JJBers on July 14, 2017, 01:40:35 PM
To imagine what it's like to live in a county governmentless state, think about what's it like in a independent city in Virginia/other states, and and make it every town/city.
Virtually impossible in a state like Illinois where there is a lot of unincorporated land that belongs to no municipality. However, that unincorporated land is annexable to a municipality if the landowner agrees to annexation. This can lead to some rather interestingly-shaped municipalities (cities, villages, and towns (of which there are only 19)).
Examples:
Village of Bolingbrook (https://goo.gl/maps/iDz23gezeTu), population 73,000.
City of Joliet (https://goo.gl/maps/grk2ALG5juo), population 148,000.
Town of Courtland (https://goo.gl/maps/wHjWuxT8jn42), population 4,200.
Note the bizarre shapes of them when compared to, say, a New England municipality.
For starters, Illinois annexation law: http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=006500050HArt%2E+7+Div%2E+1&ActID=802&ChapterID=14&SeqStart=64600000&SeqEnd=70000000
So, if you have enough money and time, you can become your own town. Cool.
Village, actually. Towns are no longer a viable incorporation option (last one was incorporated in the 1870s), and you need a minimum of 2,500 population to incorporate as a city.
Quote from: roadman65In VA you have either a county or a city being the division of the state's land area which is why Arlington has no incorporated communities within its borders.
No, that is not why. For starters, Arlington is a county, not a city, so it could have incorporated communities if it wanted to. But being a small county, its residents haven't seen any advantage in forming incorporated villages.
QuoteIn VT, you have no county seats but you have Shires instead,
Shire Towns, to be more precise...
NY counties have legislatures and executives.
In Virginia more and more cities are withdrawing their independent status. Bedford did recently and other cities did after them. Cities like Denver and St Louis are also a county among themselves. In Wisconsin county government is big. The larger counties have their own county executives which has similar kind of power to states Governors.
Quote from: wxfree on July 14, 2017, 02:19:30 PM
The basic layers of government, cities, counties, and school districts are all political subdivisions, arms of state government carrying out a particular set of functions over a particular area. There is one exception, the Stafford Municipal School District, which is run by the city of Stafford. These subdivisions overlap and their boundaries are unrelated. City boundaries cross county lines and school district boundaries cross city and county boundaries with no difficulty or practical effect. Some people have a hard time understanding that, especially because school districts and schools are usually named after a city, and students may attend school in that district even though they're from another city, sometimes a city that has another school district named after it. (There may be a city A and city B, each with a district named after it, A ISD and B ISD, and a student in city B may attend school in A ISD.)
That happens very often in Illinois as well. As an example, you have the far west side of Joliet in the Plainfield Community School District #202, and one of their high schools (Plainfield South High School) is in Joliet and in Kendall County. Have I confused anyone yet? Did I mention this area has a Plainfield ZIP Code (60586), yet is entirely within the City of Joliet (leading to Plainfield addresses according to the USPS)?
Quote from: froggie on July 14, 2017, 02:27:46 PM
No, that is not why. For starters, Arlington is a county, not a city, so it could have incorporated communities if it wanted to. But being a small county, its residents haven't seen any advantage in forming incorporated villages.
Arlington County had an incorporated town until 1930 (Potomac) when it was annexed into the City of Alexandria.
Surprisingly, it is not possible for Arlington County to have another because of state law regarding population density in the county that a town wants to form. The limit is 200 people per sq mile. See http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title15.2/chapter36/section15.2-3602/
It does not appear there is wiggle room in that to say if a part of a county didn't exceed this threshold then maybe a town could incorporate. That means other counties cannot form new incorporated towns anymore either (someplace I saw where anything in place as of 1971 could stay incorporated).
At 26 sq miles, Arlington County's population would apparently have to be below 5200 people in order to incorporate a town.
As of 2010 the following counties have more than 200 people per sq mile:
Arlington
Chesterfield
Fairfax
Hanover
Henrico
James City
Loudoun
Montgomery
Prince William
Roanoke
Spotsylvania
Stafford
York
Counties aren't totally important in NJ - most things are done on a municipal level - but there are county taxes, county courts, county roads, etc. Schools are their own districts. School districts could be regional (involving a few towns) or solely within a town, but as a town could have more than one school district, we win up with more school districts than towns in the state.
If the state wants to do something within a town, they are usually talking to the town for approval, not the county.
Quote from: Brandon on July 14, 2017, 02:38:30 PM
That happens very often in Illinois as well. As an example, you have the far west side of Joliet in the Plainfield Community School District #202, and one of their high schools (Plainfield South High School) is in Joliet and in Kendall County. Have I confused anyone yet? Did I mention this area has a Plainfield ZIP Code (60586), yet is entirely within the City of Joliet (leading to Plainfield addresses according to the USPS)?
I grew up in an unincorporated area (Sunnyland, or seen on maps as Coynes,) but we had a Joliet mailing address, and went to plainfield schools.
BTW, I thought I read somewhere that Illinois has more governmental units than any other state. Is that true?
Louisiana & its parishes:
Louisiana has 64 parishes. Orleans Parish is essentially New Orleans & all of its suburbs (Kenner, Gretna, Algiers, etc.). Each parish operates a school board to operate & maintain schools. The cities of Monroe & Bogalusa operate their own school districts independent of the parishes they are in.
Some of the southern parishes have parish presidents and a governing board of some kind. Most other parishes have a "police jury" as the governing board. They all maintain parish road sysrems, collect taxes, do the elections, operate courts (as district courts...more than 1 parish in a district), and some state code enforcement (thanks alot for that crap Katrina!).
Anyone from Louisiana please fill in the gaps...especially the part about parish presidents. I know nothing about how that system operates.
Quote from: inkyatari on July 14, 2017, 05:00:55 PM
BTW, I thought I read somewhere that Illinois has more governmental units than any other state. Is that true?
Yes. It even dwarfs Texas and California (both of which are bigger in population and area).
Quote from: cjk374 on July 14, 2017, 06:32:08 PM
Louisiana & its parishes:
Louisiana has 64 parishes. Orleans Parish is essentially New Orleans & all of its suburbs (Kenner, Gretna, Algiers, etc.). Each parish operates a school board to operate & maintain schools. The cities of Monroe & Bogalusa operate their own school districts independent of the parishes they are in.
Some of the southern parishes have parish presidents and a governing board of some kind. Most other parishes have a "police jury" as the governing board. They all maintain parish road sysrems, collect taxes, do the elections, operate courts (as district courts...more than 1 parish in a district), and some state code enforcement (thanks alot for that crap Katrina!).
Anyone from Louisiana please fill in the gaps...especially the part about parish presidents. I know nothing about how that system operates.
I thought Kenner and Gretna were Jefferson Parish. Algiers is a part of N.O.
Quote from: Brandon on July 14, 2017, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on July 14, 2017, 06:32:08 PM
Louisiana & its parishes:
Louisiana has 64 parishes. Orleans Parish is essentially New Orleans & all of its suburbs (Kenner, Gretna, Algiers, etc.). Each parish operates a school board to operate & maintain schools. The cities of Monroe & Bogalusa operate their own school districts independent of the parishes they are in.
Some of the southern parishes have parish presidents and a governing board of some kind. Most other parishes have a "police jury" as the governing board. They all maintain parish road sysrems, collect taxes, do the elections, operate courts (as district courts...more than 1 parish in a district), and some state code enforcement (thanks alot for that crap Katrina!).
Anyone from Louisiana please fill in the gaps...especially the part about parish presidents. I know nothing about how that system operates.
I thought Kenner and Gretna were Jefferson Parish. Algiers is a part of N.O.
Ooops...geographical error on my part. It's been a long hot day. Lol!
Quote from: roadman65 on July 14, 2017, 12:34:00 PM
In NY, you have counties which are really a group of towns and cities (except NYC) together where the individual towns assume most of the powers that many states give powers to such as Florida.
I would not say that. Outside NYC, the counties are the subdivisions of the state. Towns/cities are the subdivisions of the county (villages exist within towns but there are some that cross town/county boundaries, such as Saranac Lake; school districts are entirely separate from everything else, as are fire districts, refuse districts, etc. - we love our special districts here). Our counties are their own government, complete with a legislature, executive, sheriff, courts, highway department, department of health, etc. Things do change when you cross county boundaries - the most prominent example presently being whether fireworks are legal or not. In NYC, the counties are essentially the same as the boroughs in all but name.
Not in NYC, as Kings County and Richmond County are governed by the same body just like New York, Queens, and Bronx counties. Yes certain things change like tax rates on sales, and even self serve gas as at one time NYC and one upstate county near the Canadian Border disallowed self service and was like NJ with attendants pumping your fuel.
In NYC the difference between boroughs are that each has its own district attorney. The borough president of each is really an assistant to the Mayor of NYC and a borough is a subdivision of the municipality being the City of New York.
There are 254 counties in TX, but no townships, nor city-county combos. Wxfree explained it earlier, but Wikipedia has alt-info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_Texas
There have been moves in the past to merge counties in TX due to declining population and/or less tax revenue to operate with, but so far in recent years, nothing has happened in that regard.
Kenedy County, TX is all privately owned and although has towns in it, the fact is is on private land and most likely governed by owners of its land no doubt.
I see Dallas is in two counties.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
Not in NYC, as Kings County and Richmond County are governed by the same body just like New York, Queens, and Bronx counties. Yes certain things change like tax rates on sales, and even self serve gas as at one time NYC and one upstate county near the Canadian Border disallowed self service and was like NJ with attendants pumping your fuel.
In NYC the difference between boroughs are that each has its own district attorney. The borough president of each is really an assistant to the Mayor of NYC and a borough is a subdivision of the municipality being the City of New York.
NYC is weird, but certainly not the model for the state. Note that the second sentence of my post began with "outside NYC". Never thought I'd see the New York = New York City fallacy happen on this forum.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2017, 09:00:09 AM
Kenedy County, TX is all privately owned and although has towns in it, the fact is is on private land and most likely governed by owners of its land no doubt.
I see Dallas is in two counties.
Five, actually. Far North Dallas spills over into Collin and Denton County, and the city owns Lake Ray Hubbard, which straddles the border with Rockwall County and takes in a small corner of Kaufman County.
Maryland has 23 counties and the independent Baltimore city, which was once part of Baltimore County. They are geo-political divisions of the state.
Quote from: vdeane on July 15, 2017, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
Not in NYC, as Kings County and Richmond County are governed by the same body just like New York, Queens, and Bronx counties. Yes certain things change like tax rates on sales, and even self serve gas as at one time NYC and one upstate county near the Canadian Border disallowed self service and was like NJ with attendants pumping your fuel.
In NYC the difference between boroughs are that each has its own district attorney. The borough president of each is really an assistant to the Mayor of NYC and a borough is a subdivision of the municipality being the City of New York.
NYC is weird, but certainly not the model for the state. Note that the second sentence of my post began with "outside NYC". Never thought I'd see the New York = New York City fallacy happen on this forum.
And New York is fairly unusual in that both counties and their subdivisions (towns, fundamentally) are relatively strong governments. Strong towns are typical in New England, where counties are essentially vestigial, whereas strong counties are characteristic of the Midwest, where town[ships]s are much weaker, or the West, where they're non-existent as municipal entities. But only one or two other states have towns and counties each providing a full suite of services the way they do in NY.
iPhone
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.
In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html
https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.
Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.
I have found where the municipal governments are strong are where there are no unincorporated areas within a state. NY is one of them and so is NJ where no place is solely county governed.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 17, 2017, 07:50:41 AM
I have found where the municipal governments are strong are where there are no unincorporated areas within a state. NY is one of them and so is NJ where no place is solely county governed.
Better to say no "unorganized" areas for NY, because we don't semantically consider towns to be "incorporated". And PA is another close example, but their townships aren't as strong as NY's towns; and furthermore, the different township classes seem to have a more widely-ranging set of services.
Counties in Wisconsin play a pretty important role in the day to day functions of government and offer many services to citizens. This document pretty much covers it all:
https://www.wicounties.org/uploads/pub/county-government-2012.pdf
New York is weird, as there is very little consistency across the state regarding the role of the county. The one consistent thing is this: the lowest level of government (town/city/village) is more powerful than in any state outside of New England. Generally, in the eastern part of the state (roughly east of NY 12), counties aren't much more than a sheriff, DPW and court. If municipal water infrastructure exists, it's typically on a town level and the county only maintains major non/state roads. Towns control most services, such as libraries, etc.
The western part of the state is another animal. Generally, there's a big county government that provides most services, such as libraries, water, etc, similar to states further west. Relatively few services are provided on a town level. Several counties out here maintain a massive county road network. Erie County (Buffalo), for example, maintains most non-state through roads outside of cities, giving it the largest CR network in the state by far. Onondoga County (Syracuse) comes in second in terms of county route network.
The 5 New York City counties exist in name only; as they're all entirely contained within the City of New York and cities can do everything a county can (and then some), there is no reason for them to exist. Also, while strong towns/counties exist inside the state, strong counties rarely have strong towns (and vice-versa). Towns are generally stronger in the east, while counties are stronger in the west.
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.
The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties. So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).
ixnay
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
New York has nine municipalities that are in multiple counties other than New York City. The only
city in two counties is Geneva (Ontario and Seneca). The villages are:
-Almond (Allegany and Steuben)
-Attica (Genesee and Wyoming)
-Deposit (Broome and Delaware)
-Dolgeville (Fulton and Herkimer)
-Earlville (Chenango and Madison)
-Gowanda (Cattaraugus and Erie)
-Rushville (Ontario and Yates)
-Saranac Lake (Essex and Franklin). Until Essex County raised its sales tax to 8%, matching Franklin County's, the village had sales tax rates differing by 1% depending on where you were.
On a roads-related note, Earlville, Geneva, Rushville and Saranac Lake are split between two NYSDOT regions as well.
Quote from: cl94 on July 22, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
The 5 New York City counties exist in name only; as they're all entirely contained within the City of New York and cities can do everything a county can (and then some), there is no reason for them to exist.
Essentially true, although there are certain functions that are carried out in the name of the county, rather than the coterminous borough. It seems to be that state functions within NYC are divided by county, while city functions are separated by borough.
iPhone
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
Illinois has a shit-ton, including some county seats.
Chicago (county seat - Cook) - Cook & DuPage
Aurora - Kane, DuPage, Kendall, & Will
Joliet (county seat - Will) - Will & Kendall
Naperville - DuPage & Will
Elgin - Kane & Cook
Bolingbrook - Will & DuPage
And on and on. There's far too many to list, but the above are some of the largest, but there is at least one other in four counties, Barrington Hills - Cook, Kane, McHenry, & Lake.
Then the capital of the State of Michigan is in three counties (Ingham, Clinton, and Eaton), but id the only state capital not to be a county seat.
Quote from: bing101 on July 16, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.
In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html
https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.
Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.
CA has a total of 58 counties, some are rather large, like Riverside and San Bernardino, also Kern to be as big as states in New England. Riverside county should be divided into two: the eastern part for the Coachella Valley (Indio has the county government offices) and a need to sub-divide Los Angeles county (and city) 5 ways: The Antelope Valley. Santa Monica/Agoura Hills, the South Bay/Culver City, Long Beach and Pomona (the county fairgrounds), and the city itself to a borough system similar to NYC: 1. Central (downtown LA), 2. Hollywood, 3. Venice/Westwood, 4. San Pedro/Harbor City, and 5. San Fernando Valley. However, L.A. has 4 million people and the county has over 10 million.
Quote from: cl94 on July 22, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
New York is weird, as there is very little consistency across the state regarding the role of the county. The one consistent thing is this: the lowest level of government (town/city/village) is more powerful than in any state outside of New England. Generally, in the eastern part of the state (roughly east of NY 12), counties aren't much more than a sheriff, DPW and court. If municipal water infrastructure exists, it's typically on a town level and the county only maintains major non/state roads. Towns control most services, such as libraries, etc.
The western part of the state is another animal. Generally, there's a big county government that provides most services, such as libraries, water, etc, similar to states further west. Relatively few services are provided on a town level. Several counties out here maintain a massive county road network. Erie County (Buffalo), for example, maintains most non-state through roads outside of cities, giving it the largest CR network in the state by far. Onondoga County (Syracuse) comes in second in terms of county route network.
The 5 New York City counties exist in name only; as they're all entirely contained within the City of New York and cities can do everything a county can (and then some), there is no reason for them to exist. Also, while strong towns/counties exist inside the state, strong counties rarely have strong towns (and vice-versa). Towns are generally stronger in the east, while counties are stronger in the west.
I believe I've posted this here before (so forgive me if I have). I once had a central New Yorker friend tell me that the different regions of New York State tends to take on whatever characteristics its nearest state or region has. Eastern New York is most similar to New England because it borders New England whereas Western New York is basically an eastern extension of the Midwest. The Southern Tier is also basically Northern Pennsylvania.
Basically, New York City is more similar to Boston than it is to Buffalo and Buffalo is more similar to Detroit than it is New York City.
Quote from: The Nature Boy
I believe I've posted this here before (so forgive me if I have). I once had a central New Yorker friend tell me that the different regions of New York State tends to take on whatever characteristics its nearest state or region has. Eastern New York is most similar to New England because it borders New England whereas Western New York is basically an eastern extension of the Midwest. The Southern Tier is also basically Northern Pennsylvania.
Basically, New York City is more similar to Boston than it is to Buffalo and Buffalo is more similar to Detroit than it is New York City.
Correct. Buffalo is undoubtedly Midwest, while Albany may as well be New England. Rochester and Syracuse lie in a transition zone. Basically, west of I-390 is Midwest and east of I-81 is East Coast. The counties that border PA are very similar to PA in terms of culture, government, etc. Likewise, north of Albany blends into Vermont and the mid-lower Hudson Valley blends into Connecticut and New Jersey. These major cultural differences are why there is so much of a regional tug of war in NY. Don't want to get too off-topic here, as this discussion could go on forever.
Quote from: epzik8 on July 16, 2017, 01:06:09 PM
Maryland has 23 counties and the independent Baltimore city, which was once part of Baltimore County. They are geo-political divisions of the state.
In addition, the county is a powerful unit of government in Maryland. In some of the most populous areas outside of Baltimore City, the county is the sole general-purpose local government. Counties have discretion to block the incorporation of new municipalities in their territories.
Quote from: Doctor Whom on July 25, 2017, 11:30:54 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on July 16, 2017, 01:06:09 PM
Maryland has 23 counties and the independent Baltimore city, which was once part of Baltimore County. They are geo-political divisions of the state.
In addition, the county is a powerful unit of government in Maryland. In some of the most populous areas outside of Baltimore City, the county is the sole general-purpose local government. Counties have discretion to block the incorporation of new municipalities in their territories.
Maryland has surprisingly few incorporated places.
LGMS428
Quote from: roadman65 on July 14, 2017, 12:34:00 PM
In Hawaii, although they have 5 counties their delegation is different as education is not a power granted to them by the state government as they have control over all schooling within the State.
One of the five counties, Kalawao (once a place of exile for Hansen's Disease patients, but the few who remain could leave if they wanted now that medications make the disease non-contagious) really is a benevolent co-dictatorship of the state Department of Health and the National Park Service. While state law makes it a county of its own (and not a part of Maui County), it says that Hawaii's laws on counties don't apply there.
For the other four counties, while education and libraries are state functions, vehicle registration and traffic law enforcement are exclusive county functions. (The state's brief foray into traffic law enforcement, via speed cameras, ended very, very badly. When uniformed county police officers were photographed making obscene gestures at the speed cameras, that was a sign that the state really screwed up.) And counties maintain most public non-state roads, some of which are numbered.
The most unique feature of Hawaii's counties is that there are no municipal governments below the county level.
Alaska has boroughs and other county-like units, but also a vast Unorganized Borough where the state handles county-level functions. However, both that borough and others (except city-boroughs like Juneau, Sitka, and Yakutat) have separate municipal governments within their boundaries. As for transportation, almost all significant roads, and many insignificant ones, are state-maintained, as is the Alaska Marine Highway auto ferry system (but there are some local non-AMHS ferries too).
Graham County, Arizona:
Maintains non-state roads outside of city limits..
Sheriff's office provides law enforcement outside city limits, jail for entire county, single 911 PSAP /Dispatch Center for all law enforement and fire deprs. in county.
Court System: One Superior Court two Justice of the Peace courts, Probation.
Treasurer, Recorder and Assessor: Taxes, real property records, etc.
Other Departments: Other government-y stuff.
Arizona's other 14 counties basically work the same.... except Graham is the only county with a single 911 PSAP for the entire county.
Is a canton really just an area that's the size of a county but has the powers of a state?
Quote from: bandit957 on September 26, 2017, 05:59:49 PM
Is a canton really just an area that's the size of a county but has the powers of a state?
Are you referring to the cantons in Switzerland? They seem to be the primary subdivision, as Switzerland's total area is much smaller than that of the United States. If
any relatively small country was divided into 20-30 pieces (Switzerland has 26 cantons), they would be more comparable to US counties in area but US states in function.
One exception: Sometimes the best analogy is US-state-county to EU-country-[name of subdivision]. Switzerland is not part of the European Union, though.
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.
The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties. So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).
ixnay
You'd probably like Lloydminster, which straddles the border between Saskatchewan and Alberta but is a single municipality (unlike, say, Bristol, which is two separate municipalities in Virginia and Tennessee).
Quote from: 1 on September 26, 2017, 06:48:49 PM
Are you referring to the cantons in Switzerland?
Yes. I thought Switzerland was the only place that has cantons.
Quote from: Desert Man on July 22, 2017, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 16, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.
In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html
https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.
Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.
CA has a total of 58 counties, some are rather large, like Riverside and San Bernardino, also Kern to be as big as states in New England. Riverside county should be divided into two: the eastern part for the Coachella Valley (Indio has the county government offices) and a need to sub-divide Los Angeles county (and city) 5 ways: The Antelope Valley. Santa Monica/Agoura Hills, the South Bay/Culver City, Long Beach and Pomona (the county fairgrounds), and the city itself to a borough system similar to NYC: 1. Central (downtown LA), 2. Hollywood, 3. Venice/Westwood, 4. San Pedro/Harbor City, and 5. San Fernando Valley. However, L.A. has 4 million people and the county has over 10 million.
Interestingly Rhode Island is the same size as Sacramento County. There's a city/county consolidation in San Francisco and that's the only one in California. However we have South San Francisco but its under San Mateo, County Jurisdiction. West Sacramento is under Yolo County jurisdiction.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2017, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.
The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties. So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).
ixnay
You'd probably like Lloydminster, which straddles the border between Saskatchewan and Alberta but is a single municipality (unlike, say, Bristol, which is two separate municipalities in Virginia and Tennessee).
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more
counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are
separate municipalities?
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2017, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.
The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties. So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).
ixnay
You'd probably like Lloydminster, which straddles the border between Saskatchewan and Alberta but is a single municipality (unlike, say, Bristol, which is two separate municipalities in Virginia and Tennessee).
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.
Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a
state line are almost always
separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is
one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is
not a single municipality?
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.
Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?
Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.
Quote from: GaryV on September 29, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.
Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?
Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.
Well, exactly. It would be an extraordinary example, just as it'd be extraordinary to find a multi-state city (because the city corporation is fundamentally subordinate to the state government).
Quote from: GaryV on September 29, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.
Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?
Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.
Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state. If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name. And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 30, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state. If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name. And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?
At some point (perhaps earlier in the process), the Postal Service gets involved, or at least did before the introduction of ZIP codes helped reduce confusion between same-named communities in different parts of a state. But while the Postal Service can force name changes for postal address purposes, the original names can persist for other uses.
For example, Hawaii still has two large Kailuas, and three Waimeas, left over from when Hawaii was divided among multiple kingdoms on different islands. One of the postal changes has more or less caught on (Kailua on the Big Island => Kailua-Kona, with Kailua in the Honolulu suburbs unchanged); the postal changes for two of the three Waimeas, not so much. Of course, none of these are municipality names, since Hawaii has no municipalities.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 30, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 29, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
Given that most states, provinces, cantons, whatever wouldn't allow two separate cities with the same name, adjacent or not, I doubt you'll find any examples.
Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state. If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name. And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?
For example, Wisconsin has a town, a village and a city, all named Superior. However, I'm not aware of any state that has two municipalities of the same type with the same name (i.e., two cities or two villages, but not counting minor civil division like town[ship]s, which often have duplicated names).
Quote from: oscar on September 30, 2017, 09:11:07 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 30, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Some states have municipalities with the same name within the state. If they get large enough to become a city, there's no requirement they need to change their name. And if there's so many people living in a town that's going to become a city, do you think anyone's going to be willing to change that town's name?
At some point (perhaps earlier in the process), the Postal Service gets involved, or at least did before the introduction of ZIP codes helped reduce confusion between same-named communities in different parts of a state. But while the Postal Service can force name changes for postal address purposes, the original names can persist for other uses.
This probably wouldn't be an issue for a county line-straddling city; no reason the postal service would need a name change based solely on an administrative boundary, if it's the same contiguous place.
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.
Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?
Would Texarkana fit your definition?
Quote from: Desert Man on July 22, 2017, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 16, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.
In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html
https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.
Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.
CA has a total of 58 counties, some are rather large, like Riverside and San Bernardino, also Kern to be as big as states in New England. Riverside county should be divided into two: the eastern part for the Coachella Valley (Indio has the county government offices) and a need to sub-divide Los Angeles county (and city) 5 ways: The Antelope Valley. Santa Monica/Agoura Hills, the South Bay/Culver City, Long Beach and Pomona (the county fairgrounds), and the city itself to a borough system similar to NYC: 1. Central (downtown LA), 2. Hollywood, 3. Venice/Westwood, 4. San Pedro/Harbor City, and 5. San Fernando Valley. However, L.A. has 4 million people and the county has over 10 million.
I agree that some of the counties in CA are so big, but I would not want to see LA city divide among separate counties. I do believe the Antelope Valley can be a separate county and the SG Valley cities served by Foothill (basically everything east of El Monte and Pasadena) could be its own county as well.
Definitely agree on dividing SB and Riverside into two counties each.
Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason.
You'll love Minnesota's St. Cloud, which resides mostly in Stearns County, but has pieces in Sherburne and Benton Counties too.
Or the small town of Sheldahl, Iowa, population 319, which exists over the tri-corner of Polk, Story, and Boone Counties.
Quote from: mrsman on October 01, 2017, 08:46:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 29, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on September 27, 2017, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: empirestate on September 27, 2017, 11:00:47 AM
Along similar lines, are there any places that lie within two or more counties (or other subdivisions below the first-level division) and are separate municipalities?
You mean like Detroit and all it's suburbs to the north of 8 Mile Road? Detroit is in Wayne County, the suburbs are in Oakland and Macomb. They lie in 2 or more counties, and are separate municipalities.
I'm guessing that's not what you meant, but I can't fathom what you really were trying to say.
Well, if the suburbs were also called Detroit it would be. Just as Bristol, VA is a city, and Bristol, TN is another city; so, suppose there were three cities called Detroit: one in Wayne County, one in Oakland and one in Macomb. That would be an example of what I mean. Unfortunately, it's a made-up one.
Point is, cities that straddle a county line are, as far as I know, always just one city. On the other hand, cities that straddle a state line are almost always separate cities. Now, we have the apparently extraordinary example of Lloydminster, which is one city, but it straddles a provincial line. So, can we find the extraordinary example of a city that straddles a county line within a state, but is not a single municipality?
Would Texarkana fit your definition?
No, Texarkana is not within one state.
This bring up a question I have had for a while. Traveling through St. Louis I noticed several vehicles with plates reading something like "Bi-State Development District - IL - MO". While I know of many multi-state government agencies, such as the Port Authority of NY and NJ, I cannot recall another that issues its own plates. Others seem to just use one state or the other or mix it up based on the base of the particular vehicle.
Who would keep the records of such a plate? MO or IL or both?
Quote from: empirestate on September 30, 2017, 12:28:16 PM
This probably wouldn't be an issue for a county line-straddling city; no reason the postal service would need a name change based solely on an administrative boundary, if it's the same contiguous place.
Sometimes the zip code doesn't even change; 57106 is the zip code for southwestern Sioux Falls in both Minnehaha and Lincoln Counties. However, if you move to the east, the Lincoln County part is 57108 and the Minnehaha part is 57105 and 57103.