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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: bugo on August 20, 2017, 10:41:08 PM

Title: Shortest overlap
Post by: bugo on August 20, 2017, 10:41:08 PM
The US 49/64 duplex in Fair Oaks, Arkansas is about 150 feet. Northbound US 49 turns right onto eastbound US 64, crosses a railroad track, then turns left and heads north towards Jonesboro. Are there any duplexes shorter than this one?
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 21, 2017, 12:19:15 AM
US 5 and CT 150 have a 0.01 mi. (50 feet or so) overlap.  As CT 150 North (cardinal direction west) crosses US 5, it becomes a one-way portion of Hall Ave. for one block passing by Wallingford Amtrak Station.  Southbound traffic must divert onto South Cherry St and Quinnipiac Ave (both 2 way).  The official overlap (about 50 feet) is for northbound traffic to bend slightly to cross US 5 to Hall Ave.  Here is a GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/ffSE8BGSc992


Other overlaps in CT less than 0.1 mi.:

CT 2 and CT 184 0.02 mi.
CT 83 and CT 190 0.02 mi.
CT 122 and CT 243 0.02 mi.
CT 138 and CT 169 0.02 mi.
US 1 and CT 122 0.03 mi.
CT 25 and CT 133 0.03 mi.
CT 80 and CT 81 0.03 mi.
CT 79 and CT 80 0.04 mi.
CT 83 and CT 140 0.04 mi.
US 202 and CT 63 0.04 mi.
CT 17 and CT 22 0.06 mi.
CT 179 and CT 219 0.06 mi.
US 5/CT 15/CT 287 0.07 mi.
CT 16 and CT 85 0.07 mi.
CT 115 and CT 313 0.07 mi.
CT 49 and CT 165 0.08 mi.
CT 71A and CT 372 0.08 mi.
US 202/CT 10/CT 189 0.09 mi.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: bugo on August 21, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Here is a satellite image of the US 49/64 overlap:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2519673,-91.0292107,218m/data=!3m1!1e3

Here is the Street View:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2519206,-91.029799,3a,60y,85.49h,86.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssnDZl7k3qwaCmYVUSRCFkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: NE2 on August 21, 2017, 12:50:41 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 21, 2017, 12:19:15 AM
US 5 and CT 150 have a 0.01 mi. (50 feet or so) overlap.  As CT 150 North (cardinal direction west) crosses US 5, it becomes a one-way portion of Hall Ave. for one block passing by Wallingford Amtrak Station.  Southbound traffic must divert onto South Cherry St and Quinnipiac Ave (both 2 way).  The official overlap (about 50 feet) is for northbound traffic to bend slightly to cross US 5 to Hall Ave.  Here is a GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/ffSE8BGSc992
There's no way in hell that's an actual overlap. CTDOT is using GIS data blindly without looking at actual conditions.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: DandyDan on August 21, 2017, 03:59:19 AM
Don't know how many feet it is, but IA 17 and IA 210 go for a block in Madrid.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: MNHighwayMan on August 21, 2017, 04:43:51 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on August 21, 2017, 03:59:19 AM
Don't know how many feet it is, but IA 17 and IA 210 go for a block in Madrid.

Measuring it in Google Earth gives me a distance of ~400 ft.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 21, 2017, 06:11:08 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 21, 2017, 12:19:15 AM
US 5 and CT 150 have a 0.01 mi. (50 feet or so) overlap.  As CT 150 North (cardinal direction west) crosses US 5, it becomes a one-way portion of Hall Ave. for one block passing by Wallingford Amtrak Station.  Southbound traffic must divert onto South Cherry St and Quinnipiac Ave (both 2 way).  The official overlap (about 50 feet) is for northbound traffic to bend slightly to cross US 5 to Hall Ave.  Here is a GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/ffSE8BGSc992

That's an intersection.  Not an overlap.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 21, 2017, 06:17:51 AM
The shortest one I frequent in California (and off the top of my head I don't know if this is the shortest) would be CA 120 on US 395 for three miles.  I want to say CA 3 on CA 299 in Weaverville is just slightly longer and I'm sure that some of the multiplexes with CA 1 and US 101 (if they are actually signed) are near that mileage territory also.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: roadman65 on August 21, 2017, 06:34:33 AM
US 422 and PA 743 used to be for one short block in Hershey, PA.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: MNHighwayMan on August 21, 2017, 07:00:35 AM
MN-22 and MN-19 overlap MN-5 in Gaylord for two blocks (about 740 feet).

Best one though is probably the one in Benson. MN-9 overlaps US-12 for one whole whopping block: about 370 feet.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: LM117 on August 21, 2017, 07:28:48 AM
The one I'm most familiar with (because I grew up there) is US-117 and NC-222 in Fremont, NC. They overlap for one block.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Eth on August 21, 2017, 08:52:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 21, 2017, 06:17:51 AM
The shortest one I frequent in California (and off the top of my head I don't know if this is the shortest) would be CA 120 on US 395 for three miles.  I want to say CA 3 on CA 299 in Weaverville is just slightly longer and I'm sure that some of the multiplexes with CA 1 and US 101 (if they are actually signed) are near that mileage territory also.

US 101/CA 2 appears to be 2.7 miles.

The shortest one near me is probably GA 20/GA 81 in Loganville, around 1250 feet. US 19/US 41/US 78/US 278/GA 3/GA 8 is slightly longer, about 1500 feet.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: hotdogPi on August 21, 2017, 08:59:43 AM
MA 97/125 in Haverhill seems to be about 300 feet.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: froggie on August 21, 2017, 09:03:01 AM
Per VDOT, the VA 178/180 overlap on the Eastern Shore is 0.03mi.  Measuring it out on Google Earth, centerline to centerline, gives me about 131 feet.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 21, 2017, 09:40:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 21, 2017, 06:11:08 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 21, 2017, 12:19:15 AM
US 5 and CT 150 have a 0.01 mi. (50 feet or so) overlap.  As CT 150 North (cardinal direction west) crosses US 5, it becomes a one-way portion of Hall Ave. for one block passing by Wallingford Amtrak Station.  Southbound traffic must divert onto South Cherry St and Quinnipiac Ave (both 2 way).  The official overlap (about 50 feet) is for northbound traffic to bend slightly to cross US 5 to Hall Ave.  Here is a GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/ffSE8BGSc992

That's an intersection.  Not an overlap.

ConnDOT does classify it as an overlap because northbound CT 150 traffic has to head a smidgeon north in crossing over US 5.  A couple of the other ones on my list are traffic circle overlaps.

http://www.ct.gov/dot/LIB/dot/Documents/dpolicy/hwylog/hwylog.pdf
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Mapmikey on August 21, 2017, 09:59:59 AM
Some will probably classify this as an intersection as well, but US 220-250 intersection in Monterey VA is offset by 31 ft - https://goo.gl/maps/u9zCsFTrYN52

Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: ekt8750 on August 21, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
The I-295/NJ 42 concurrency is literally 1/10 of a mile. It though isn't long for this world.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jwolfer on August 21, 2017, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: ekt8750 on August 21, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
The I-295/NJ 42 concurrency is literally 1/10 of a mile. It though isn't long for this world.
I think Route 42 ended at the 295 junction.. West/north of there it is Route 76..

Hisorically  route 42 was the entire North South freeway and perhaps in common parlance it is all called Route 42 still.

LGMS428

Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: cpzilliacus on August 21, 2017, 11:16:43 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 21, 2017, 09:59:59 AM
Some will probably classify this as an intersection as well, but US 220-250 intersection in Monterey VA is offset by 31 ft - https://goo.gl/maps/u9zCsFTrYN52

Yes, that is a pretty short "jog" for U.S. 220.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: cpzilliacus on August 21, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
I-83 and I-695 have a pretty  short overlap in  Baltimore County, Maryland. 

By the most-generous interpretation of the Highway Location Reference, the overlap is about 0.39 miles long.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 21, 2017, 11:37:30 AM
Quote from: ekt8750 on August 21, 2017, 10:42:39 AM
The I-295/NJ 42 concurrency is literally 1/10 of a mile. It though isn't long for this world.

They aren't concurrent now.  While they run parallel to each other, they are on their own separate roadways and thus don't overlap.

(When they were concurrent, they ran together for approximately 1/4 mile)
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: TEG24601 on August 21, 2017, 07:01:37 PM
Prior to INDOT's (idiotic) removal of most routes from Lafayette, SR-25 duplexed with US-52 for about 500ft between SR-38 and Teal Rd.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: formulanone on August 21, 2017, 09:11:02 PM
FL 80 and FL 29 overlap together in La Belle for 0.067 mile (353 feet), according to FDOT's straight-line diagram (http://www2.dot.state.fl.us/Straight-linesOnlineGIS/blank.aspx?docId=28302).

Google Maps makes it look like 200 feet, so perhaps part of the intersection's width from end-to-end, plus the associated turning lanes are accounted for?
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
Northeast of Puyallup, WA, the wrong-way concurrencies of highways 167 and 161 last anywhere from .25 to .5 mile(s). It's a stretch of freeway, so I'm not sure where to draw the line in terms of which exit and entrance ramps count towards overall mileage. I'm sure there's a webpage that lists the exact length of the concurrency on WSDOT's website, but I cannot be bothered. Even considering the longest measurement, a half mile overlap has to be in the top five for Washington. Particularly interesting since it's a freeway.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Bitmapped on August 22, 2017, 11:16:27 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 21, 2017, 11:16:43 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 21, 2017, 09:59:59 AM
Some will probably classify this as an intersection as well, but US 220-250 intersection in Monterey VA is offset by 31 ft - https://goo.gl/maps/u9zCsFTrYN52

Yes, that is a pretty short "jog" for U.S. 220.

I don't know why the roads were built with an offset, but it functions as a single intersection.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: bzakharin on August 22, 2017, 11:31:43 AM
Not sure how long any of these are, but US 40 / NJ Turnpike and NJ 41 / NJ 154 come to mind in NJ. The NJ 47/347 concurrency too, if it exists (some signage implies that stretch is just 47. Some implies it is just 347 or a concurrency. The straight line diagrams curiously show it as neither)
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Ian on August 22, 2017, 11:55:35 PM
According to Google Maps (https://goo.gl/maps/sShnHDyVZfk), the overlap between ME 119 and 124 in West Minot, Maine is a mere 160 feet.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
Northeast of Puyallup, WA, the wrong-way concurrencies of highways 167 and 161 last anywhere from .25 to .5 mile(s). It's a stretch of freeway, so I'm not sure where to draw the line in terms of which exit and entrance ramps count towards overall mileage. I'm sure there's a webpage that lists the exact length of the concurrency on WSDOT's website, but I cannot be bothered. Even considering the longest measurement, a half mile overlap has to be in the top five for Washington. Particularly interesting since it's a freeway.

WSDOT lists it as 0.72 miles, from milepost 29.15 to 29.87.  (If you ever are bothered, it's the state highway log at http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/roadway/statehighwaylog.htm )  That is probably measured from where the centerlines intersect.  If you want to measure just between the ramps - the distance a car is actually driving on both highways at the same time - measuring it on Google I get about 0.44 miles headed compass east (161 SB/167 NB) and 0.69 miles going the other direction.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Quillz on August 24, 2017, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 21, 2017, 06:17:51 AM
The shortest one I frequent in California (and off the top of my head I don't know if this is the shortest) would be CA 120 on US 395 for three miles.  I want to say CA 3 on CA 299 in Weaverville is just slightly longer and I'm sure that some of the multiplexes with CA 1 and US 101 (if they are actually signed) are near that mileage territory also.
I thought that concurrencies technically don't exist in California? CA-1 officially exists in pieces even though it would have "implied" concurrencies with US-101. (Although if they did legally exist, all of them are fairly lengthy). In the case of CA-3 and CA-120, I believe both exist in pieces, as mile markers reflect CA-299 and US-395.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jakeroot on August 24, 2017, 12:51:54 AM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
Northeast of Puyallup, WA, the wrong-way concurrencies of highways 167 and 161 last anywhere from .25 to .5 mile(s). It's a stretch of freeway, so I'm not sure where to draw the line in terms of which exit and entrance ramps count towards overall mileage. I'm sure there's a webpage that lists the exact length of the concurrency on WSDOT's website, but I cannot be bothered. Even considering the longest measurement, a half mile overlap has to be in the top five for Washington. Particularly interesting since it's a freeway.

WSDOT lists it as 0.72 miles, from milepost 29.15 to 29.87.  (If you ever are bothered, it's the state highway log at http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/roadway/statehighwaylog.htm )  That is probably measured from where the centerlines intersect.  If you want to measure just between the ramps - the distance a car is actually driving on both highways at the same time - measuring it on Google I get about 0.44 miles headed compass east (161 SB/167 NB) and 0.69 miles going the other direction.

Measured it on my phone, so pardon the inaccuracy. Thank you for the link.

Can you think of any shorter concurrencies?
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 10:14:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 24, 2017, 12:51:54 AM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
Northeast of Puyallup, WA, the wrong-way concurrencies of highways 167 and 161 last anywhere from .25 to .5 mile(s). It's a stretch of freeway, so I'm not sure where to draw the line in terms of which exit and entrance ramps count towards overall mileage. I'm sure there's a webpage that lists the exact length of the concurrency on WSDOT's website, but I cannot be bothered. Even considering the longest measurement, a half mile overlap has to be in the top five for Washington. Particularly interesting since it's a freeway.

WSDOT lists it as 0.72 miles, from milepost 29.15 to 29.87.  (If you ever are bothered, it's the state highway log at http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/roadway/statehighwaylog.htm )  That is probably measured from where the centerlines intersect.  If you want to measure just between the ramps - the distance a car is actually driving on both highways at the same time - measuring it on Google I get about 0.44 miles headed compass east (161 SB/167 NB) and 0.69 miles going the other direction.

Measured it on my phone, so pardon the inaccuracy. Thank you for the link.

Can you think of any shorter concurrencies?

I cheated. (I probably should have been able to think of it myself, but I'll admit that I didn't.)  Page 44 of the log lists all of what WSDOT calls "coincident routes". The shortest is SR 9/530 at 0.11 miles.  They overlap for a block or so in Arlington.

I-405/SR 900 is another short freeway one; it's under a mile, but longer than 161/167.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jflick99 on August 25, 2017, 01:01:24 PM
These are two concurrencies that are shorter than any other freeway overlap I've seen on here.

US 69's very convoluted route through Kansas City overlaps with two different highways for less than a half mile each in less than a mile. Going southbound (which actually starts out heading northwest), US 69 overlaps NB Missouri 9 for about 0.30 miles, and then it exits off of MO-9 to get onto I-635 for about 0.38 miles. Heading northbound, it overlaps I-635 for about 0.20 miles, and then is concurrent with SB MO-9 for another 0.20 miles.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1666696,-94.6247321,15.47z?hl=en
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: epzik8 on August 25, 2017, 01:05:38 PM
I hear there's one in Elkton, Maryland, I think between U.S. 40 and MD-7, that's about seven-hundredths of a mile (0.07 miles).
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: jakeroot on August 25, 2017, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 10:14:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 24, 2017, 12:51:54 AM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 21, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
Northeast of Puyallup, WA, the wrong-way concurrencies of highways 167 and 161 last anywhere from .25 to .5 mile(s). It's a stretch of freeway, so I'm not sure where to draw the line in terms of which exit and entrance ramps count towards overall mileage. I'm sure there's a webpage that lists the exact length of the concurrency on WSDOT's website, but I cannot be bothered. Even considering the longest measurement, a half mile overlap has to be in the top five for Washington. Particularly interesting since it's a freeway.

WSDOT lists it as 0.72 miles, from milepost 29.15 to 29.87.  (If you ever are bothered, it's the state highway log at http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/mapsdata/roadway/statehighwaylog.htm )  That is probably measured from where the centerlines intersect.  If you want to measure just between the ramps - the distance a car is actually driving on both highways at the same time - measuring it on Google I get about 0.44 miles headed compass east (161 SB/167 NB) and 0.69 miles going the other direction.

Measured it on my phone, so pardon the inaccuracy. Thank you for the link.

Can you think of any shorter concurrencies?

I cheated. (I probably should have been able to think of it myself, but I'll admit that I didn't.)  Page 44 of the log lists all of what WSDOT calls "coincident routes". The shortest is SR 9/530 at 0.11 miles.  They overlap for a block or so in Arlington.

Geez, that's a short one! Good find (even if you cheated).

Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2017, 10:14:44 PM
I-405/SR 900 is another short freeway one; it's under a mile, but longer than 161/167.

I had no idea that 900 was routed along the 405. I thought it followed Park Drive, and then Logan Ave. Obviously not the case. Even looking at Google Maps would have told me that.

Looking at a map, though, I have to wonder why they didn't keep 900 along Sunset Blvd. Seems like a more obvious routing.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: WNYroadgeek on August 25, 2017, 11:27:37 PM
NY 36 and NY 408 overlap for 262 feet in Mt. Morris: https://goo.gl/maps/A3XPMe6vGjK2
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 26, 2017, 05:44:41 AM
Encountered a small overlap on my current trip with M-26 jumping onto US 41 for about .3 miles over the Portage Lake Lift Bridge.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: hotdogPi on September 04, 2017, 11:14:23 AM
Found a new one: MA 123 and MA 140 in Norton.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: 7/8 on September 04, 2017, 11:36:41 AM
Highway 8 and 23 overlap for about 190 metres (~ 0.11 miles) in Mitchell, ON

Also, NY 33 and 98 overlap for about 170 metres (~ 0.11 miles) in Batavia, NY
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: SectorZ on September 04, 2017, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 04, 2017, 11:14:23 AM
Found a new one: MA 123 and MA 140 in Norton.

So short that the traffic signals at each intersection operate as one, fully in sync with each other.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: cl94 on September 04, 2017, 08:03:49 PM
Quote from: WNYroadgeek on August 25, 2017, 11:27:37 PM
NY 36 and NY 408 overlap for 262 feet in Mt. Morris: https://goo.gl/maps/A3XPMe6vGjK2

Don't quote me on this, but I think this is the shortest overlap in the state that is not within the confines of a single intersection. The overlap between NY 5 EB and NY 16 SB appears to be 50-100 feet longer.

Quote from: 7/8 on September 04, 2017, 11:36:41 AM
Also, NY 33 and 98 overlap for about 170 metres (~ 0.11 miles) in Batavia, NY

The entire overlap consists of a bridge across Tonawanda Creek. NY 5B/12B SW of Utica is about the same length.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: fillup420 on September 05, 2017, 10:52:28 AM
The intersection of US 220 and US 250 in Monterey, VA doesn't quite line up. The streets of 220  are offset by about 15 ft. Its not signed as an overlap, but I like to think it counts.
Title: Re: Shortest overlap
Post by: shadyjay on September 05, 2017, 11:32:01 AM
How 'bout the only time I-91 and US 5 are overlapped... for about 1000' SB and 1300' NB in Springfield, MA...

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0781474,-72.5788762,17.4z