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Author Topic: I-66 HO/T Lanes  (Read 117279 times)

Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #300 on: December 05, 2017, 07:45:13 PM »

VDOT already concluded that the best investment would be a second Metrorail tunnel at Rosslyn.
Really?  When did they do that?  VDOT does not administer WMATA projects.
VDOT can study whatever they want. The "T" stands for transportation, in case you weren't aware.
Fair enough, VDOT only drew conclusions about throughput, not ROI. But VDOT did state that the Rosslyn Metro tunnel facilitates the most cross-Potomac movements during rush hour:
http://www.virginiadot.org/PotomacRiverStudy.pdf

I didn't see there where they were recommending a second Metrorail tunnel at Rosslyn.

That would not be a standalone segment, it would have to be part of a parallel subway line that would separate the Blue and Orange lines in Arlington and D.C., and it would be at least 5 miles long according to schemes that I have seen in the past, and it would cost multiple billions of dollars to build.

The report did say this --

Rosslyn Tunnel is at capacity in the peak hours
• 8 car trains will increase capacity by ~15%
• Significant investment is required in the future to further address core capacity issues on WMATA

It also said this --

Several options to address issues at [I-495] American Legion Bridge
• Extend HOT lanes across American Legion Bridge to the 270 spur
• Construct new ‘outer’ bridge crossing
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #301 on: December 06, 2017, 12:48:54 AM »

That would not be a standalone segment, it would have to be part of a parallel subway line that would separate the Blue and Orange lines in Arlington and D.C., and it would be at least 5 miles long according to schemes that I have seen in the past, and it would cost multiple billions of dollars to build.

I think it unlikely  that Maryland would be  willing to contribute anything to such a project (they did not contribute to Dulles Rail, though they did say that they would provide added operating subsidy as per the  current agreement that divides up the subsidy).
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oscar

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #302 on: December 06, 2017, 01:02:26 AM »

Is there any good alternative to that interstate? I've only been in the Rosslyn neighborhood in Arlington, right around the Key Bridge to Georgetown. (I'm from Connecticut and was last in that area in May of 2015.)
US 29 and US 50 roughly parallel I-66 in Arlington County and could theoretically serve as a free alternative, but they're a traffic nightmare in and of themselves.

One big problem with US 29 is that it has no interchange with I-495, except NB off/SB on ramps only to the I-495 express toll lanes. To get from I-66 while avoiding tolls, you'd have to get off at VA 243 a few miles west of I-495 before heading east on 29, which means a few more miles of slogging through stoplights. With US 50, you can take I-495 south to 50. US 50 (but not US 29) also has interchanges at key locations, which lessen the pain but still leave it a good deal slower than I-66.
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Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #303 on: December 06, 2017, 07:18:07 AM »

One big problem with US 29 is that it has no interchange with I-495, except NB off/SB on ramps only to the I-495 express toll lanes. To get from I-66 while avoiding tolls, you'd have to get off at VA 243 a few miles west of I-495 before heading east on 29, which means a few more miles of slogging through stoplights. With US 50, you can take I-495 south to 50. US 50 (but not US 29) also has interchanges at key locations, which lessen the pain but still leave it a good deal slower than I-66.

That is the same situation with regard to avoiding the I-66 HOV lanes inside the Beltway in the past.

US-29 suffers from the fact that the I-495 interchanges for US-50 and I-66 are only 1.1 mile apart, and that US-29 crosses that section of I-495.  Much too close to build an interchange for US-29.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #304 on: December 06, 2017, 07:34:17 AM »

Another route is to exit I-66 to SB I-495, then towards EB US-50 but use the ramp marked “Fairview Park.” Brings you out on 29 by the golf course (next light east of Shreve Road). Downside is, that route uses the slowest segment of I-66 (Nutley to the Beltway) and may take longer than exiting at Nutley even with all the lights on Nutley and 29.
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #305 on: December 06, 2017, 08:04:09 AM »

BTW, so far I’m not seeing the outraged tweets today. As of 8:00, the full eastbound run is at $15.75.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the furor die down even if the tolls don’t change much. People will move on to complain about something else. Recall when the I-495 lanes opened there were two or three days of screaming, plus some bad wrecks, and then the hubbub died quickly.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #306 on: December 06, 2017, 08:27:00 AM »

Also, while you were correct in noting that Virginia isn't Maryland, you probably didn't realize that Maryland is EVEN LESS INTERESTED in building an outer beltway.

Yet, their MD 200 is the closest thing to an outer beltway!
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #307 on: December 06, 2017, 08:51:36 AM »

Also, while you were correct in noting that Virginia isn't Maryland, you probably didn't realize that Maryland is EVEN LESS INTERESTED in building an outer beltway.

Yet, their MD 200 is the closest thing to an outer beltway!

The Fairfax County Parkway would qualify too, tragic lights notwithstanding.

Edited: OK, that’s an autocorrect issue that actually sounds better than what I thought I typed.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 09:00:09 AM by 1995hoo »
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #308 on: December 06, 2017, 09:22:53 AM »

Also, while you were correct in noting that Virginia isn't Maryland, you probably didn't realize that Maryland is EVEN LESS INTERESTED in building an outer beltway.
Yet, their MD 200 is the closest thing to an outer beltway!
The Fairfax County Parkway would qualify too, tragic lights notwithstanding.
Edited: OK, that’s an autocorrect issue that actually sounds better than what I thought I typed.

The radical environmentalist/transit groups claim that Virginia has built a number of "stealth outer beltways".   The Fairfax County Parkway / Franconia Springfield Parkway, VA-123 between I-95 and I-66, the Prince William Parkway, VA-234 between I-95 and I-66, and VA-28 between Manassas and VA-7.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #309 on: December 06, 2017, 09:51:24 AM »

Can we nix this discussion? An upriver crossing wont' happen for probably at least 35-50 years, if ever (it's a waste of money anyway), and this isn't the forum for it.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #310 on: December 06, 2017, 10:39:00 AM »

Washington Post says today’s peak toll was $23.50 at around 9:00.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #311 on: December 06, 2017, 03:27:06 PM »

Can we nix this discussion? An upriver crossing wont' happen for probably at least 35-50 years, if ever (it's a waste of money anyway), and this isn't the forum for it.

Which part of the discussion?  The proposal to extend the I-495 HOT lanes across the American Legion Memorial Bridge to the I-270 spur, is a feasible and reasonable project to discuss.

http://nvta.org/priority/american-legion-bridge/
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #312 on: December 06, 2017, 03:39:23 PM »

Can we nix this discussion? An upriver crossing wont' happen for probably at least 35-50 years, if ever (it's a waste of money anyway), and this isn't the forum for it.

Which part of the discussion?  The proposal to extend the I-495 HOT lanes across the American Legion Memorial Bridge to the I-270 spur, is a feasible and reasonable project to discuss.

http://nvta.org/priority/american-legion-bridge/

Quote
I-66 HO/T Lanes

I'm all for upgrading the existing freeways inside the Beltway, and including the Beltway, into HOT facilities but this topic concerns I-66.
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vdeane

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #313 on: December 06, 2017, 08:18:07 PM »

Can we nix this discussion? An upriver crossing wont' happen for probably at least 35-50 years, if ever (it's a waste of money anyway), and this isn't the forum for it.
I'm sure traffic not from DC going to places not DC would be forever grateful to have a way to bypass DC's hellish traffic.
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oscar

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #314 on: December 06, 2017, 08:21:13 PM »

Can we nix this discussion? An upriver crossing wont' happen for probably at least 35-50 years, if ever (it's a waste of money anyway), and this isn't the forum for it.
I'm sure traffic not from DC going to places not DC would be forever grateful to have a way to bypass DC's hellish traffic.

Worthy of discussion (if there's anything new to say about it), but not in this thread.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #315 on: December 07, 2017, 10:38:11 PM »

[ H/T Beltway ]

The Commonwealth Transportation Board has some good news about widening of eastbound I-66 at its most miserably congested point inside the Beltway.

Quote
  • Eastbound I-66 Inside the Beltway will be widened between the Dulles Connector Road and Fairfax Drive

An $85.7 million contract was awarded to Lane Construction Corp. of Chantilly to add a through lane along approximately four miles of eastbound Interstate 66 between the Dulles Connector Road (Route 267) and Fairfax Drive (Route 237) in Fairfax and Arlington counties, in VDOT’s Northern Virginia District.

The project includes ramp modifications at Exits 69 and 71, rehabilitation and/or repairs to bridges, construction of noise barriers eastbound and westbound and widening bridges and constructing a new grade-separated crossing of the Washington & Old Dominion (W&OD) Trail at Lee Highway.

Additionally, an auxiliary lane will be added to the existing I-66 eastbound exit ramp and a slip ramp will be constructed from the I-66 eastbound exit ramp to the Route 7 southbound entrance flyover ramp, providing more direct access to the West Falls Church Metro Station Parking Garage.

The additional eastbound lane will be open to traffic in fall 2020 and the overall project is expected to be complete in fall 2021.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #316 on: December 07, 2017, 10:48:30 PM »

By 2020 the finished Silver Line, W&OD trail improvements, and a robust slugging culture along the I-66 corridor will render the new lane moot. 66 will have less traffic than today.  :sombrero:
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #317 on: December 07, 2017, 11:26:50 PM »

I doubt that...

But it's funny you mention slugging.  Saw a tweet this evening that referenced a story about someone in NoVA trying to start some slugging lines along 66.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #318 on: December 07, 2017, 11:36:38 PM »

I doubt that...

But it's funny you mention slugging.  Saw a tweet this evening that referenced a story about someone in NoVA trying to start some slugging lines along 66.

I was told by a reliable source (a colleague) that there is an operating slug line at the Herndon Monroe parking deck (future Metrorail Silver Line station) along  VA-267.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #319 on: December 07, 2017, 11:38:02 PM »

By 2020 the finished Silver Line, W&OD trail improvements, and a robust slugging culture along the I-66 corridor will render the new lane moot. 66 will have less traffic than today.  :sombrero:

Those are the  sorts of promises that were made about the Metrorail system in the 1960's and 1970's by its boosters.  Especially the one that claimed "everyone will be riding Metro so there will be no more traffic congestion."
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #320 on: December 08, 2017, 12:12:07 AM »

By 2020 the finished Silver Line, W&OD trail improvements, and a robust slugging culture along the I-66 corridor will render the new lane moot. 66 will have less traffic than today.  :sombrero:

Those are the  sorts of promises that were made about the Metrorail system in the 1960's and 1970's by its boosters.  Especially the one that claimed "everyone will be riding Metro so there will be no more traffic congestion."

You probably miss the days when downtown DC was riddled with surface parking lots to accommodate commuters. Which do you like more?



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Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #321 on: December 08, 2017, 06:54:09 AM »

By 2020 the finished Silver Line, W&OD trail improvements, and a robust slugging culture along the I-66 corridor will render the new lane moot. 66 will have less traffic than today.  :sombrero:
Those are the  sorts of promises that were made about the Metrorail system in the 1960's and 1970's by its boosters.  Especially the one that claimed "everyone will be riding Metro so there will be no more traffic congestion."
You probably miss the days when downtown DC was riddled with surface parking lots to accommodate commuters. Which do you like more?

The D.C. area had a very extensive bus transit system with over 2,000 buses before Metrorail was built.  It still does but is mostly oriented toward feeding Metro stations.  Back then it had many high capacity radial lines that connected VA and MD and the outer parts of DC to the downtown.  There were a couple entire blocks of downtown street that were closed to traffic and utilized for surface bus stations.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #322 on: December 08, 2017, 08:04:16 AM »

I doubt that...

But it's funny you mention slugging.  Saw a tweet this evening that referenced a story about someone in NoVA trying to start some slugging lines along 66.

I was told by a reliable source (a colleague) that there is an operating slug line at the Herndon Monroe parking deck (future Metrorail Silver Line station) along  VA-267.

I’ve seen a photo of a sign for a slug line at the Vienna Metro, but I don’t know how well the line is doing. Check the forum at slug-lines.com if you want info.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #323 on: December 08, 2017, 08:13:57 AM »

By 2020 the finished Silver Line, W&OD trail improvements, and a robust slugging culture along the I-66 corridor will render the new lane moot. 66 will have less traffic than today.  :sombrero:

Those are the  sorts of promises that were made about the Metrorail system in the 1960's and 1970's by its boosters.  Especially the one that claimed "everyone will be riding Metro so there will be no more traffic congestion."

You probably miss the days when downtown DC was riddled with surface parking lots to accommodate commuters. Which do you like more?


I know you're very transit-oriented, but you're missing the point. Promises have been made in the past, that have proven false (and that goes for both sides...roads and transit).  If you think in 3 years traffic will have subsided, you're truly kidding yourself.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #324 on: December 08, 2017, 08:53:56 AM »

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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

 


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