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Author Topic: I-66 HO/T Lanes  (Read 116799 times)

seicer

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #325 on: December 08, 2017, 08:56:07 AM »

You can't have optimum transit with low density housing. Extensive bus networks with 15 minute intervals just isn't possible unless you are willing to have high transit taxes, which wouldn't produce the best ROI because of the density. The transit oriented developments (TOD) occurring all throughout the metro - and in DC itself, is one of the best ways to deliver upon higher density in the suburbs. High density around the TOD with feeder buses to the TOD from medium density outlying areas.

You also have the horrible funding issue with Metro, which never got resolved from when the transit program was initially implemented. Yes, you can have shiny new lines (Silver), but the funding hardly covers maintenance.

cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #326 on: December 08, 2017, 10:01:01 AM »

Also, while you were correct in noting that Virginia isn't Maryland, you probably didn't realize that Maryland is EVEN LESS INTERESTED in building an outer beltway.

Yet, their MD 200 is the closest thing to an outer beltway!

Not Maryland, but a relatively small collection of anti-highway and  anti-car voters that always show up on primary election day for Democratic candidates for County Council in both Prince George's and Montgomery County, which greatly  exaggerates their influence.
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Mapmikey

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #327 on: December 08, 2017, 02:00:46 PM »

An analysis of the beginning of the I-66 tolling that looks at averaging instead of the extremes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/12/08/forget-the-infamous-40-toll-heres-what-the-i-66-tolls-are-averaging/?hpid=hp_local-news_tolls-8am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.4706d4349871

Quote
Here are some highlights from first-day numbers:

The average morning toll Monday was $10.70.  This exceeds the projections of $9 for an eastbound trip for the entire 10 miles from the Capital Beltway to the District line.
The evening commute was less expensive, averaging $3.80. The state had projected the westbound trip would cost $8.
This puts the average round-trip at $14.50, below the estimated $17 that state transportation officials presented to the public two years ago.
So, how many solo commuters chose to pay Monday’s peak of the peak toll? VDOT said 39 vehicles paid the $34.50 that posted around 8:36 a.m.

WTOP every afternoon has been disclosing what the full length WB toll is on occasion.  Have not heard a value above $10 in the 430-500 p.m. timeframe.  So whatever is happening in the morning EB does not repeat itself WB in the afternoon.
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abefroman329

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #328 on: December 08, 2017, 02:18:16 PM »

Christ, I couldn't imagine anything more unappealing than slugging or picking up a slug.  Too many stories from people who slug and ended up listening to a husband and wife fight the whole way as if they weren't even in the car.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #329 on: December 08, 2017, 04:57:18 PM »

Christ, I couldn't imagine anything more unappealing than slugging or picking up a slug.  Too many stories from people who slug and ended up listening to a husband and wife fight the whole way as if they weren't even in the car.

Slugging's been a routine part of local culture on the 395 corridor for decades, with few incidents. There is even suggested rules of behavior: http://www.slug-lines.com/Slugging/Etiquette.asp

It's less of an issue than you're imagining it to be.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #330 on: December 08, 2017, 06:46:06 PM »

I know several people who have slugged for years with no issues. Sometimes you get someone who wears too much perfume or a driver who listens to a radio station you don’t like or whatever, but you suck it up because it’s a free ride. Both the driver and the riders benefit.

I picked up slugs a couple of times many years ago when I needed to get down I-395 promptly and it worked quite well.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #331 on: December 08, 2017, 09:51:51 PM »

Slugging's been a routine part of local culture on the 395 corridor for decades, with few incidents. There is even suggested rules of behavior: http://www.slug-lines.com/Slugging/Etiquette.asp

It's less of an issue than you're imagining it to be.

I agree.  I have never lived in the I-95/I-395 Corridor, but I have had business there sometimes, which made it useful to pick up slugs to save time.

The slugs that I have spoken with have been friendly and respectful, and appreciative of getting a free ride to where their car is parked.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #332 on: December 09, 2017, 12:50:36 PM »

This just showed up. Some interesting points here about what some other toll facilities cost.

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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #333 on: December 09, 2017, 12:59:08 PM »

This just showed up. Some interesting points here about what some other toll facilities cost.

Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, 2 miles, $17 to Staten Island.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #334 on: December 09, 2017, 01:08:38 PM »

This just showed up. Some interesting points here about what some other toll facilities cost.

Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, 2 miles, $17 to Staten Island.


I thought of that as well. I suppose some people might argue that the one-way tolling should be viewed as double the toll (comparing it to, say, the Whitestone Bridge where they toll in both directions), but even if you divide it in half, it's still $4.25 a mile. Obviously the author of that piece doesn't buy that theory (I don't either) because he cited the Lincoln Tunnel, but I guess the reason he cited that rather than the Verrazano is that he was focused on access to the urban core. Staten Island is definitely not the urban core (Bay Ridge isn't either, of course).
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #335 on: December 09, 2017, 10:39:35 PM »

WTOP Radio: What happens to I-66 tolls when it snows?

Quote
Neither snow nor rain nor the gloom of an early sunset will keep the Interstate 66 tolls for solo drivers and the newly expanded HOV hours from kicking in on weekdays.

Quote
“There’s no turning it off,” Virginia Department of Transportation Tolling Director David Caudill said.

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“Rain and snow, it’s going to work,” he said of the I-66 tolls. They apply on weekdays from the Beltway toward Rosslyn between 5:30 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. and from Rosslyn toward the Beltway between 3 p.m. and 7 p.m.

Quote
The tolls and HOV rules do not apply on federal holidays.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #336 on: December 10, 2017, 06:59:10 PM »

Bacon's Rebellion: Actually, Travel Times Are Faster on I-66, VDOT Says



Quote
Many Northern Virginia motorists and politicians seem to be having mental breakdowns over the opening of HOT lanes on Interstate 66 inside the Beltway. Most notably, they point to the first-day, one-way $34.50 peak toll as an outrage against the driving public. Ironically, though, morning and afternoon commutes were faster during the first four days of HOT lane operation than the same period last year, asserts the Virginia Department of Transportation.

Quote
The average toll price during morning rush hour was $10.70 and during evening rush hour $3.80, stated VDOT in a press release issued yesterday evening. Only 39 vehicles paid the posted highest toll of $34.50. A third paid less than $10. And average travel times for the 10-mile route were 10 to 12 minutes compared to 15 to 30 minutes last December.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 07:04:39 PM by cpzilliacus »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #337 on: December 10, 2017, 07:11:22 PM »

You also have the horrible funding issue with Metro, which never got resolved from when the transit program was initially implemented. Yes, you can have shiny new lines (Silver), but the funding hardly covers maintenance revenue from the farebox and taxpayer subsidies do not cover enough maintenance and all heavy overhaul and repair and rehabilitation costs (usually called capital costs) are funded from sources having little or nothing to do with Metro.

FTFY.

In the early days of Metro (prior to 1976), its boosters (including at least some WMATA staff people) claimed that one the system was complete, it would be  able to fund all costs out of farebox and other revenues.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 07:13:53 PM by cpzilliacus »
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Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #338 on: December 10, 2017, 09:08:22 PM »

Bacon's Rebellion:

"Bacon's Rebellion" is run by RE/T groups.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #339 on: December 10, 2017, 11:12:45 PM »

Bacon's Rebellion:

"Bacon's Rebellion" is run by RE/T groups.

Have you ever met Jim Bacon? 

I have, and while I dislike the PEC, which has supported his activities in the past (but I don't think  they do now), he has done some pretty good writing over the years.  This was a generally fair article, IMO.

Bacon has also been  open about getting  support from the PEC.
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Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #340 on: December 11, 2017, 07:07:43 AM »

Bacon's Rebellion:
"Bacon's Rebellion" is run by RE/T groups.
Have you ever met Jim Bacon? 
I have, and while I dislike the PEC, which has supported his activities in the past (but I don't think  they do now), he has done some pretty good writing over the years.  This was a generally fair article, IMO.
Bacon has also been  open about getting  support from the PEC.

If he gets support from the PEC then he most likely is getting support from other RE/T groups as well.  I haven't been to that site in years.  Does Larry Grossbelch still post there?
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #341 on: December 11, 2017, 08:22:26 AM »

The issue isn't so much that Bacon is on the take, he is and admits it. The issue is that he's wrong a lot. He seems clueless about the realities of Northern Virginia, and is way too narrowly-focused on Richmond-area stuff.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #342 on: December 11, 2017, 08:44:58 AM »

If he gets support from the PEC then he most likely is getting support from other RE/T groups as well.  I haven't been to that site in years.  Does Larry Grossbelch still post there?

I have seen posts from that person, yes.  I generally ignore them, though I have corrected a few blatantly false statements about Maryland toll projects posted by  him (I think regarding the HWN and the ICC).
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #343 on: December 11, 2017, 08:46:47 AM »

The issue isn't so much that Bacon is on the take, he is and admits it. The issue is that he's wrong a lot. He seems clueless about the realities of Northern Virginia, and is way too narrowly-focused on Richmond-area stuff.

I am not claiming that Jim Bacon is right all the time - IMO clearly he is not.  And yes, he does  spend a lot of time on Richmond-area issues, though he did publish a photograph I took from far-away Buchanan County, Virginia, and a little story to go with it (about ADHS Corridor Q).
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #344 on: December 11, 2017, 10:24:06 AM »

The issue isn't so much that Bacon is on the take, he is and admits it. The issue is that he's wrong a lot. He seems clueless about the realities of Northern Virginia, and is way too narrowly-focused on Richmond-area stuff.

I didn't find his Richmond / state govt stuff very useful, either, so it has been probably 7 or 8 years since I have been to his site.  I didn't care to see the diatribes posted by some of the blog posters.  It's not even clear exactly where he stood on the issues, just that it was decidedly leaning toward anti-mobility and anti-development.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #345 on: December 11, 2017, 10:49:45 AM »

The issue isn't so much that Bacon is on the take, he is and admits it. The issue is that he's wrong a lot. He seems clueless about the realities of Northern Virginia, and is way too narrowly-focused on Richmond-area stuff.

I didn't find his Richmond / state govt stuff very useful, either, so it has been probably 7 or 8 years since I have been to his site.  I didn't care to see the diatribes posted by some of the blog posters.  It's not even clear exactly where he stood on the issues, just that it was decidedly leaning toward anti-mobility and anti-development.

Dominion doesn't like energy efficiency  :sombrero:
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Beltway

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #346 on: December 11, 2017, 03:35:21 PM »

The issue isn't so much that Bacon is on the take, he is and admits it. The issue is that he's wrong a lot. He seems clueless about the realities of Northern Virginia, and is way too narrowly-focused on Richmond-area stuff.
I didn't find his Richmond / state govt stuff very useful, either, so it has been probably 7 or 8 years since I have been to his site.  I didn't care to see the diatribes posted by some of the blog posters.  It's not even clear exactly where he stood on the issues, just that it was decidedly leaning toward anti-mobility and anti-development.
Dominion doesn't like energy efficiency  :sombrero:

They do a poor job of maintaining the lines, lack of tree trimming in the neighborhoods, every time there is a major storm tens of thousands of people lose power.  It was never this bad 15 to 30 years ago.  I lost power for over 12 hours in the 4 inch snowstorm a few days ago, granted it was a wet snow that caused tree branches to fall.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #347 on: December 11, 2017, 10:16:34 PM »

Dominion doesn't like energy efficiency  :sombrero:

The late Henry Howell (a Virginia Democratic politician, enemy of the Byrd Machine and failed candidate for Governor of the Commonwealth) used to refer to the Virginia Electric & Power Company, VEPCO for short (the primary predecessor company to what is now Dominion) as the Very Expensive Power Company, which got him a lot of laughs (and was apparently true  in the past).
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #348 on: December 11, 2017, 10:19:54 PM »

They do a poor job of maintaining the lines, lack of tree trimming in the neighborhoods, every time there is a major storm tens of thousands of people lose power.  It was never this bad 15 to 30 years ago.  I lost power for over 12 hours in the 4 inch snowstorm a few days ago, granted it was a wet snow that caused tree branches to fall.

Regarding removal of vegetation near and along overhead lines, is that really Dominion's fault?  I get the impression that many people who live along streets and roads with Dominion distribution lines get mighty upset when utility tree contractors (such as Asplundh) show up to remove limbs and branches from near those lines, and then the branches come down on the wires during storms (including snow and ice storms and hurricanes and severe thunderstorms in  the warmer months).
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #349 on: December 11, 2017, 11:38:39 PM »

This just showed up. Some interesting points here about what some other toll facilities cost.


Almost always, bridge tolls cost more than highway tolls per mile.  In most cases, the bridges/tunnels have their own police department.  In most cases, the jurisdiction boundaries run a lot further away from just the bridge/tunnel mentioned. 

In the PANYNJ's case, they have multiple buildings and structures.  The PANYNJ runs a bus terminal that serves 8,000 buses and 225,000 people every DAY with a complex ramp system that gets most buses to and from the Lincoln tunnel in short distances mixing with normal vehicular traffic.  A lot of this is supported with bridge/tunnel tolls.

The PA Bus Terminal had a terrorist attack occur underneath it today, shutting it down for a whole 6 hours (and while it was reported that no activity was occurring for a few hours, I could see buses rolling from it just an hour after the attack).  VDOT simply tries keeping traffic moving at 55 mph.  The comparison is almost incredibly silly, because it looks, incorrectly, at very, very generic numbers.
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