News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

Detroit - Removal of I-375

Started by JREwing78, November 24, 2013, 11:25:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

silverback1065

one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!


Terry Shea

Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
Are you talking about the 3-lane streets with a bike path on both sides?  They were formerly 4-lane streets with no bike path and were "converted."

wanderer2575

Quote from: rawmustard on January 06, 2021, 12:56:46 AM
MDOT has opened the public comment period for this project. Any comments received prior to February 19 will be included in the official record. A virtual outreach event and an in-person hearing will be held, respectively, on January 27 and 28 per the project page.

What surprised me in the documents is that sometime mid-2019 another alternative (#5B) to replace the current I-75/I-375 interchange was proposed.  It looks simpler and less expensive to construct and maintain than the original proposal (now #5A).



Flint1979

Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.

Rothman

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 07, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.
...or check out Salt Lake City sometime.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

silverback1065

Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 07, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.
...or check out Salt Lake City sometime.

i have, their downtown is a mess, also boring! woodward downtown is absurdly wide so is gratriot.

Rothman

Quote from: silverback1065 on January 07, 2021, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 07, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.
...or check out Salt Lake City sometime.

i have, their downtown is a mess, also boring! woodward downtown is absurdly wide so is gratriot.
Wut.  SLC is a grid.  Like...the griddiest grid of all grids.  It's the exact opposite of a mess.

It's actually boring.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

skluth

Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 08:37:42 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 07, 2021, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 07, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.
...or check out Salt Lake City sometime.

i have, their downtown is a mess, also boring! woodward downtown is absurdly wide so is gratriot.
Wut.  SLC is a grid.  Like...the griddiest grid of all grids.  It's the exact opposite of a mess.

It's actually boring.

I believe the comment about Woodward and Gratiot was referencing two Detroit streets. I know Woodward is ungodly wide from the old Detroit documentaries. I don't know about Gratiot.

And you are right about SLC. It's a flat grid on a huge scale, but at least the mountains are a nice view.

US 89

Quote from: skluth on January 07, 2021, 11:03:06 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 08:37:42 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 07, 2021, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 07, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.
...or check out Salt Lake City sometime.

i have, their downtown is a mess, also boring! woodward downtown is absurdly wide so is gratriot.
Wut.  SLC is a grid.  Like...the griddiest grid of all grids.  It's the exact opposite of a mess.

It's actually boring.

I believe the comment about Woodward and Gratiot was referencing two Detroit streets. I know Woodward is ungodly wide from the old Detroit documentaries. I don't know about Gratiot.

And you are right about SLC. It's a flat grid on a huge scale, but at least the mountains are a nice view.

Actually, Salt Lake is fascinating if you look at it a little closer since different parts of the Salt Lake Valley have different grids. The northeast part of the valley largely uses the Salt Lake City downtown grid or a direct extension of it, but the west half and southern third of the valley uses the PLSS federal survey grid of section line roads every mile or half-mile. Then there are the smaller grids of the Avenues and the historic centers of Sandy and Magna. They just all happen to use the same coordinate numbers based from downtown SLC now.

Flint1979

Woodward isn't that wide downtown it's just like a normal city street. Once M-1 starts it gets wider but it's also the main street in the city and on the National Highway System. Gratiot isn't all that wide either, it has a grass median for awhile downtown. You have to remember that these are major streets that carry a lot of traffic. Gratiot is actually busier in Macomb County than Woodward is in Oakland County. Macomb is more densely populated than Oakland is too.

Whenever there is a backup or other problem on any of the freeways these streets serve as a good alternate route. Michigan and Gratiot for I-94, Woodward and Fort for I-75, Grand River for I-96 and so on. They were built before the freeways so they at one time carried all the traffic. I think the streets for the most part are as wide as they need to be. Detroit had 120 foot right of ways when they built their streets.

Flint1979


23skidoo

Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2021, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 07, 2021, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 06, 2021, 09:43:27 PM
one thing i don't like about michigan is their city streets are absurdly wide. why do you need a road to be that wide in the urban core? make it 4 11' lanes with parking on either side. so much land is wasted on these absurdly wide surface streets!
What street are you talking about? Michigan's city streets aren't any wider or narrower than any other state.
...or check out Salt Lake City sometime.

This exchange reminds of the time Mitt Romney (now representing Utah, coincidentally) said that Michigan's streets are "just right": https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS108941544820120225. He also said Michigan's trees are just the right height!  :)

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 08, 2021, 06:50:13 AM
Woodward isn't that wide downtown it's just like a normal city street. Once M-1 starts it gets wider but it's also the main street in the city and on the National Highway System. Gratiot isn't all that wide either, it has a grass median for awhile downtown. You have to remember that these are major streets that carry a lot of traffic. Gratiot is actually busier in Macomb County than Woodward is in Oakland County. Macomb is more densely populated than Oakland is too.

Whenever there is a backup or other problem on any of the freeways these streets serve as a good alternate route. Michigan and Gratiot for I-94, Woodward and Fort for I-75, Grand River for I-96 and so on. They were built before the freeways so they at one time carried all the traffic. I think the streets for the most part are as wide as they need to be. Detroit had 120 foot right of ways when they built their streets.

I think part of the reason for why Woodward, Gratiot, Michigan and Grand River are so wide within city limits is because they once had streetcars running down the medians. Given the amount of traffic they now carry, they don't need to have 6 lanes with parallel parking on the side, like this example: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3748231,-83.0174733,3a,75y,31.45h,79.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siM_vSFJDudmtyxwCdcKV_g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Personally, I'd like to see them turned into boulevards.

Ryctor2018

The street widths also harken to the time before interstates, in the 1940's and '50's. Detroit's population was about 2 million and the streets were choked with traffic. Detroit was one of the first cities in the nation with urban freeways, before the Interstate act was made law. Nowadays, those wide streets can be reduce to 21st Century population levels. But, that money that city and state will take time on.
2DI's traveled: 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24, 30, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 49, 55, 57, 59, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 85, 87, 88, 90, 93, 94, 95, 96

JREwing78


Plutonic Panda

Update to this project as it moves forward:

QuoteDETROIT, Mich. - Governor Gretchen Whitmer announces that the State of Michigan is moving forward with plans to replace the outdated I-375 freeway with an urban boulevard to spur economic development and provide easier access between adjacent areas of Detroit. The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) has concluded their environmental review process after securing a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI), which allows the project to advance to the design phase, beginning this spring.   

- https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90640-578777--,00.html

Henry

I could see the replacement become (Walter P.) Chrysler Blvd., as a complement to the freeway of the same name.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

GaryV

Maybe the Chrysler to Fisher (and vice versa) ramps will be better configured!

Plutonic Panda

Are the plans on what they'll do with the new space finalized or are they still being worked on? Because I'm not the biggest fan of this trend where a freeway is removed and a supersized median is kept with tons of green space. I mean don't get me wrong I love parks and green space but don't overdo it. It's important to allow development to generate income and activity for the city.

Terry Shea

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 17, 2022, 02:20:22 PM
Are the plans on what they'll do with the new space finalized or are they still being worked on? Because I'm not the biggest fan of this trend where a freeway is removed and a supersized median is kept with tons of green space. I mean don't get me wrong I love parks and green space but don't overdo it. It's important to allow development to generate income and activity for the city.
Total waste of money!  Tiger Stadium was razed because supposedly the space was needed for development, and then they did absolutely nothing with it.  It's Detroit.  There's all kinds of space to build and absolutely no demand to build anything, other than the artificial demand dreamed up by governmental tyrants!

Ryctor2018

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 17, 2022, 02:20:22 PM
Are the plans on what they'll do with the new space finalized or are they still being worked on? Because I'm not the biggest fan of this trend where a freeway is removed and a supersized median is kept with tons of green space. I mean don't get me wrong I love parks and green space but don't overdo it. It's important to allow development to generate income and activity for the city.

This article: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2022/03/17/interstate-375-replacement-detroit-black-bottom-paradise-valley/7073405001/ plus on MDOT's website has a cross-section on what the configuration of the road will look like after construction.
2DI's traveled: 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24, 30, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 49, 55, 57, 59, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 85, 87, 88, 90, 93, 94, 95, 96

Ryctor2018

Quote from: Terry Shea on March 17, 2022, 02:47:32 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 17, 2022, 02:20:22 PM
Are the plans on what they'll do with the new space finalized or are they still being worked on? Because I'm not the biggest fan of this trend where a freeway is removed and a supersized median is kept with tons of green space. I mean don't get me wrong I love parks and green space but don't overdo it. It's important to allow development to generate income and activity for the city.
Total waste of money!  Tiger Stadium was razed because supposedly the space was needed for development, and then they did absolutely nothing with it.  It's Detroit.  There's all kinds of space to build and absolutely no demand to build anything, other than the artificial demand dreamed up by governmental tyrants!

MDOT has stated this actually cost less that reconstructing I-375 to modern standards. The conversion of the Chrysler Freeway to a surface blvd is about $150 million. I forgot the amount (MDOT has it on the website of the various design options), but the plans to reconstruct I-375 cost more than conversion. Since the freeway is almost 60 years old, a full rebuild would be needed rather than resurfacing. This will also connect the road to the Detroit River (Atwater St), giving easier access to the riverfront.
2DI's traveled: 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24, 30, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 49, 55, 57, 59, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 85, 87, 88, 90, 93, 94, 95, 96

Flint1979

Quote from: Terry Shea on March 17, 2022, 02:47:32 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 17, 2022, 02:20:22 PM
Are the plans on what they'll do with the new space finalized or are they still being worked on? Because I'm not the biggest fan of this trend where a freeway is removed and a supersized median is kept with tons of green space. I mean don't get me wrong I love parks and green space but don't overdo it. It's important to allow development to generate income and activity for the city.
Total waste of money!  Tiger Stadium was razed because supposedly the space was needed for development, and then they did absolutely nothing with it.  It's Detroit.  There's all kinds of space to build and absolutely no demand to build anything, other than the artificial demand dreamed up by governmental tyrants!
Tiger Stadium has been developed. It's not an empty lot.

I mean this right here is the corner of Michigan and Trumbull facing the old Tiger Stadium site.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3314182,-83.0669711,3a,75y,304.16h,90.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr-mdhjR_2UwBWEBue74hxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Flint1979

Quote from: Henry on March 17, 2022, 10:27:55 AM
I could see the replacement become (Walter P.) Chrysler Blvd., as a complement to the freeway of the same name.
It will most likely be Hastings Street as a complement to the street that was there before and is still in the grid. Actually the SB service drive should be named Hastings Street. The NB service drive should be called Mansur Street.

Flint1979

They say it's a barrier separating development downtown from growth in Lafayette Park. Lafayette Park is set back from where I-375 is and the part of downtown that borders I-375 isn't really as developed as one might think. I'm not saying that I'm against this though I'm in favor of getting rid of I-375 it's an eyesore and doesn't really serve that much traffic that it needs to be a freeway.

Terry Shea

Quote from: Flint1979 on March 17, 2022, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on March 17, 2022, 02:47:32 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 17, 2022, 02:20:22 PM
Are the plans on what they'll do with the new space finalized or are they still being worked on? Because I'm not the biggest fan of this trend where a freeway is removed and a supersized median is kept with tons of green space. I mean don't get me wrong I love parks and green space but don't overdo it. It's important to allow development to generate income and activity for the city.
Total waste of money!  Tiger Stadium was razed because supposedly the space was needed for development, and then they did absolutely nothing with it.  It's Detroit.  There's all kinds of space to build and absolutely no demand to build anything, other than the artificial demand dreamed up by governmental tyrants!
Tiger Stadium has been developed. It's not an empty lot.

I mean this right here is the corner of Michigan and Trumbull facing the old Tiger Stadium site.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3314182,-83.0669711,3a,75y,304.16h,90.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr-mdhjR_2UwBWEBue74hxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
That's news to me.  Last I knew the field was still there and being used by high school teams.  At any rate, it stood dormant for years and there was no reason to raze it.  The development here could have happened almost anywhere else.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.