Driving to Guatemala

[corco]

A situation has recently developed wherein it looks like there is a very good chance I will be living in Guatemala for six months or so next year, and as a road enthusiast and general lover of travel and new experiences, I would really like to drive there, especially since I will need a private car once I'm down there to do work. I'm hoping somebody on this forum has taken this journey before- or at least gone pretty far into interior Mexico in recent years.

Assuming one crosses in Brownsville, what is the safest route to take? Is that route even safe- not the media "ZOMG MEXICO MEANS YOU DIE" dangerous, but not the "Oh, it'll be fine, the media just overstates things" sort of safe either, but the opinion in the middle. I'm not fluent in Spanish but I have two years of college Spanish and worked 3 summers in a job where I needed to communicate with Hispanic workers who knew less English than I knew Spanish, so I can fake my way around.

How long would such a drive take? How hard is it to cross from Mexico into Guatemala? Where is it good to spend the night?  - for me having secure parking, preferably not valet would be the priority. I'm willing to pay a considerable premium to stay at a hotel that meets those criteria, and I strongly prefer it to be an American chain (eg Best Western)- which means I'd probably be wanting to stay in larger cities.  Once I'm in Guatemala I would have a safe place to park.

The other option is to fly down, buy a car, and then sell the car back to my employer who will then try to sell it to somebody else, but that seems way less fun.

[agentsteel53]

I do not know the general safety of the place... I have driven down to San Felipe and encountered no trouble at all.  All I gotta say is, DO IT - who knows when you'll next get an opportunity like this!  If it were me, I'd be starting to formulate the excuses for why I arrived in Guatemala three weeks late 

[J N Winkler]

A situation has recently developed wherein it looks like there is a very good chance I will be living in Guatemala for six months or so next year, and as a road enthusiast and general lover of travel and new experiences, I would really like to drive there, especially since I will need a private car once I'm down there to do work. I'm hoping somebody on this forum has taken this journey before- or at least gone pretty far into interior Mexico in recent years.

The furthest I have been in Mexico is the general latitude of Chihuahua and Hermosillo and I was last in the country in 2003.  I would not automatically say driving to Guatemala is a bad idea, but although I would like to go south of the border, I am not planning on doing it now or in the near future because of the drug war, which was still far in the future back in 2003.  I would be concerned about drug gangs camping out on the toll autopistas (even back in 2003, the word was that the Sinaloa cartel basically "owned" the Mex. 15 turnpike in that state) and also about the possibility of kidnapping for ransom.  Kidnappers do not always honor their side of the bargain even when ransom is paid, and quite often they cut off fingers, parts of ears, etc. and send them in the mail to show that they are serious.  With the ongoing drug war, local police forces are running scared, print and TV journalists are running scared, and there are serious problems with corruption in state judicial police forces.

I think the Baja California peninsula is insulated from some of these problems because its connections to the mainland are so poor.  The cartels are fighting each other and the federal government partly for control over transportation routes for drugs.  The cartels are also confident of getting their drugs across the border because they have managed to corrupt US Customs officers, and gun dealers in Arizona will sell anything up to and including fully automatic firearms to all comers, so we are not exactly helping keep a lid on the situation.

Assuming one crosses in Brownsville, what is the safest route to take? Is that route even safe- not the media "ZOMG MEXICO MEANS YOU DIE" dangerous, but not the "Oh, it'll be fine, the media just overstates things" sort of safe either, but the opinion in the middle.

I haven't tried that route, having been strictly in arid Mexico.  It takes you past Tampico (Treasure in the Sierra Madre country--think Fred C. Dobbs and "Can you spare a dollar, brother?").  Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas have been major foci of drug-related violence, so they would not be my first choices for entry and transit.

I'm not fluent in Spanish but I have two years of college Spanish and worked 3 summers in a job where I needed to communicate with Hispanic workers who knew less English than I knew Spanish, so I can fake my way around.

I have no formal training in Spanish.  I picked up most of my Spanish from the grammar supplement of a Spanish dictionary during the course of a two-hour flight from London Luton to Madrid Barajas in autumn 1999.  My Spanish has been good enough to cope in Mexico and Spain, although it is really weak away from the road-related technical vocabulary of proyectos de construcción.  I tend to think you will not have any problems, though my experience is colored by not having to think about pronunciation.

How long would such a drive take? How hard is it to cross from Mexico into Guatemala? Where is it good to spend the night?  - for me having secure parking, preferably not valet would be the priority. I'm willing to pay a considerable premium to stay at a hotel that meets those criteria, and I strongly prefer it to be an American chain (eg Best Western)- which means I'd probably be wanting to stay in larger cities.

I think you should allow at least three days if you do nothing but driving and stick mostly to high-speed routes to save time.  From far south Texas to Mexico City it is said to be an overnight trip, and from Mexico City further south the distances involved and the availability of high-speed routes are probably comparable.  For sight-seeing or economizing on the toll roads, which have per-mile charges comparable to air travel, you will probably need to spend a considerable amount of time on libres.

My experience of travel in Mexico has been that you can usually count on 60 MPH on autopistas and at least 40 MPH on libres in flat to rolling terrain.  For libres in mountainous terrain, 25 MPH is often optimistic.  Some famous mountain roads, e.g. old Mex. 40 between Mazatlán and Victoria de Durango (not on a plausible route for you), are notoriously tortuous ("la espinaza del Diablo").  Libres are based on an approach of short tangents followed by short curves (in many locations it is really easy to plot cutoffs with your eyes), and they tend to have rough surfaces, so they can be wearying to drive.  You also have to expect to stop for every railroad crossing (active signal control is far rarer in Mexico than in the USA) and you have to watch not just for topes, but also for patches in the road surface where they might have been knocked off.  Topes are secured to the road surface with screws and if a tope is dislodged, the screws can puncture your tire.

American chains do exist in Mexico and both they, and the better native hotels, tend to have secured parking.  I don't recommend choosing American chains as your basic approach, though.  They are expensive and in some ways they breed a false sense of security--for example, they encourage you to treat the tap water as if it is drinkable, so you drink it, and then a few days later you wonder why you are bent over with giardiasis.  Since you will have to buy insurance before you cross the Mexican border, I'd suggest buying the insurance from a small operator and getting advice on lodging.  I did this in Presidio and was steered toward a small hotel in a quiet part of Chihuahua city, where it was safe to park my car on the street, the room charge was a very reasonable M$400 (about $40 at the exchange rate then prevailing), and the management provided Culligan tanks in the lobby areas.  I didn't have the benefit of a recommendation in Hermosillo, but looked at the lodging establishments along Mex. 15 and settled on one with secured parking, a per-night charge of M$350, and a courtesy bottle of drinking water in the room.

I don't recommend eating street food in Mexico.  Food in sit-down restaurants, however, is safe, because distilled water is used for cooking.  In Chihuahua I generally ate at a restaurant within walking distance of my hotel.  Mexican hot chocolate (made with cinnamon and vanilla in addition to chocolate) is a treat, and well worth getting when the weather is cold.  At least in northern Mexico, the native cuisine is actually less stereotypically Mexican than Tex-Mex, which is fundamentally an American pastiche.  There is more use of vegetable salsas and refried beans are always provided as a side dish, but other than this the dishes and presentation actually has much in common with American sit-down food.

Regarding the crossing from Mexico into Guatemala, I have little information.  I am sure you would have to undo the temporary vehicle importation unless you plan to make the return trip to Mexico during the validity period.  You might also need to perform vehicle importation and buy additional insurance in Guatemala.  Internal frontier checkpoints are a Latin American institution (a friend of mine remembers having to stop at a Km. 30 in Peru, for example), so I wouldn't expect a clear run from the border straight to your destination.

The other option is to fly down, buy a car, and then sell the car back to my employer who will then try to sell it to somebody else, but that seems way less fun.

I'd expect bureaucratic hassles if your right to register the car were linked to possession of a valid Guatemalan driving license.  You don't have to jump through this hoop in, e.g., Great Britain, but in Mexico and in most US states you do.  I'd suggest asking your potential employer about this.  If this is indeed the case, you might consider negotiating a deal with him whereby he would be the owner of the car but you would be a named driver on the insurance, paying a certain amount for the right to use it.

[corco]

Good thoughts- thanks!

I haven't tried that route, having been strictly in arid Mexico.  It takes you past Tampico (Treasure in the Sierra Madre country--think Fred C. Dobbs and "Can you spare a dollar, brother?").  Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas have been major foci of drug-related violence, so they would not be my first choices for entry and transit

I suppose my thought was to maximize time in the United States- if I crossed in Juarez or something I'd be adding another 500 miles of driving through Mexico. I've never been to southern Texas either, so that would still be a cool new experience for me.

I think you should allow at least three days if you do nothing but driving and stick mostly to high-speed routes to save time.  From far south Texas to Mexico City it is said to be an overnight trip, and from Mexico City further south the distances involved and the availability of high-speed routes are probably comparable.  For sight-seeing or economizing on the toll roads, which have per-mile charges comparable to air travel, you will probably need to spend a considerable amount of time on libres.

My experience of travel in Mexico has been that you can usually count on 60 MPH on autopistas and at least 40 MPH on libres in flat to rolling terrain.  For libres in mountainous terrain, 25 MPH is often optimistic.  Some famous mountain roads, e.g. old Mex. 40 between Mazatlán and Victoria de Durango (not on a plausible route for you), are notoriously tortuous ("la espinaza del Diablo").  Libres are based on an approach of short tangents followed by short curves (in many locations it is really easy to plot cutoffs with your eyes), and they tend to have rough surfaces, so they can be wearying to drive.  You also have to expect to stop for every railroad crossing (active signal control is far rarer in Mexico than in the USA) and you have to watch not just for topes, but also for patches in the road surface where they might have been knocked off.  Topes are secured to the road surface with screws and if a tope is dislodged, the screws can puncture your tire.

Interesting. I think my plan would be to take the cuotas most of the way down, and then if the experience was good I would use the libres as much as possible on the way back- I'd prefer to stick to the safer faster roads until I feel like I at least sort of know what the area looks like and then go to the more interesting roads on the way back. I'll also have been living in Guatemala for six months so my Spanish will be better and I'll be more cued in to local customs and more comfortable with things like corrupt police.

They are expensive and in some ways they breed a false sense of security--for example, they encourage you to treat the tap water as if it is drinkable, so you drink it, and then a few days later you wonder why you are bent over with giardiasis.

I got Montezuma's revenge on a trip to Mérida in 2003, so I won't be making that mistake again!

I am sure you would have to undo the temporary vehicle importation unless you plan to make the return trip to Mexico during the validity period.  You might also need to perform vehicle importation and buy additional insurance in Guatemala.

After talking about the possibility with somebody who has done this before, it looks like that could be problematic. It's apparently a pain to get a vehicle import permit that lasts more than 30 days, so I would have to drive back over to Mexico and drive back in every 30 days unless I can figure something out (maybe a sponsorship from the employer? We'll see). If anything, that looks like it would be the catch right now.

I would be concerned about drug gangs camping out on the toll autopistas (even back in 2003, the word was that the Sinaloa cartel basically "owned" the Mex. 15 turnpike in that state) and also about the possibility of kidnapping for ransom.  Kidnappers do not always honor their side of the bargain even when ransom is paid, and quite often they cut off fingers, parts of ears, etc. and send them in the mail to show that they are serious.  With the ongoing drug war, local police forces are running scared, print and TV journalists are running scared, and there are serious problems with corruption in state judicial police forces.

My concern is with getting pulled over and being forced to pay a giant fine for no reason just as much as with that. I may buy some mace once I get over the border just for small amounts of security. I'll also try to be reasonably smart- I'll have to have a significant amount of cash in the car  but I will store it in very unusual places (under the carpet, in the engine compartment, etc) with a minimal amount in my wallet and the rest somewhere else on my person.

It is my hope that Idaho license plates will draw a bit less attention- Idaho is not a horribly well-known state, although the red white and blue license plates do scream "America!". I'm also debating not taking my own car, which is a 2002 Jeep Liberty, and buying a mid-90s Ford Escort or something that would look less conspicuous (and also that I won't freak out about if it gets a giant parking lot ding- I know the Mexicans/Guatemalans are a bit less concerned with those sorts of things)

[agentsteel53]

I suppose my thought was to maximize time in the United States- if I crossed in Juarez or something I'd be adding another 500 miles of driving through Mexico. I've never been to southern Texas either, so that would still be a cool new experience for me.

south Texas has sections that basically are Mexico.  US-83 between Laredo and Brownsville is a drive to be experienced.  

After talking about the possibility with somebody who has done this before, it looks like that could be problematic. It's apparently a pain to get a vehicle import permit that lasts more than 30 days, so I would have to drive back over to Mexico and drive back in every 30 days unless I can figure something out (maybe a sponsorship from the employer? We'll see). If anything, that looks like it would be the catch right now.

wait, why do you need the Mexican vehicle permit if you are in Guatemala?  Or will you be returning to Mexico often enough?  Is it not sufficient to get one importation permit for the trip down, and then another one six months later for the trip back?

I'll have to have a significant amount of cash in the car  but I will store it in very unusual places (under the carpet, in the engine compartment, etc) with a minimal amount in my wallet and the rest somewhere else on my person.

do you need the cash for the journey, or the destination?  if it is to be used in Guatemala, maybe you can set up something with your employer to wire the funds to yourself instead?  If it's the journey, can you find out in advance if banks in major Mexican cities will allow you to withdraw money from your US bank account?  At the very least, a stop in Mexico City (which should have every amenity under the sun) to cash up would diminish the amount you'd need to carry by a decent proportion.

a mid-90s Ford Escort or something that would look less conspicuous (and also that I won't freak out about if it gets a giant parking lot ding- I know the Mexicans/Guatemalans are a bit less concerned with those sorts of things)

speaking of that, is it possible to buy a car in Mexico?  That would get around the vehicle importation problem - but I do not know what other problems there may be for a foreigner purchasing a car.  If you had a friend that lived in a border town, you may be able to coordinate something.  (I live close to the border and might be available to help if you'd want to venture as far west as San Diego!)

in any case, will you have access to email/the forum/etc on the road and at your new job?  I'd really love to hear the details of this road trip - anything from what to expect at checkpoints, to photos of road-related interests, to just general descriptions of the people you meet!

[corco]

wait, why do you need the Mexican vehicle permit if you are in Guatemala?  Or will you be returning to Mexico often enough?  Is it not sufficient to get one importation permit for the trip down, and then another one six months later for the trip back?

Nope, the Guatemala import permit is normally only good for 30 days.

do you need the cash for the journey, or the destination?  if it is to be used in Guatemala, maybe you can set up something with your employer to wire the funds to yourself instead?  If it's the journey, can you find out in advance if banks in major Mexican cities will allow you to withdraw money from your US bank account?  At the very least, a stop in Mexico City (which should have every amenity under the sun) to cash up would diminish the amount you'd need to carry by a decent proportion.

I want to be able to pay bribes should I get pulled over so I don't end up in jail, and the toll roads aren't horribly cheap to begin with. Plus I'll need cash for fuel/food/everything else when I'm not in a big city.

speaking of that, is it possible to buy a car in Mexico?  That would get around the vehicle importation problem - but I do not know what other problems there may be for a foreigner purchasing a car.  If you had a friend that lived in a border town, you may be able to coordinate something.  (I live close to the border and might be available to help if you'd want to venture as far west as San Diego!)

in any case, will you have access to email/the forum/etc on the road and at your new job?  I'd really love to hear the details of this road trip - anything from what to expect at checkpoints, to photos of road-related interests, to just general descriptions of the people you meet!

I may take advantage of that, and I suspect since I will be doing technology-related work that I will have internet access. I'll almost certainly set up a blog and blog the experience as well.

[agentsteel53]

I want to be able to pay bribes should I get pulled over so I don't end up in jail

you will definitely have to tell us how many times you end up doing that! 

[kphoger]

I know this is an ancient post, but.....

I'm a fan of the crossing at Colombia, NL, which is south of San Antonio near Laredo.

East on Hwy 2 (4 lanes divided),
Bypass around Nvo Laredo signed for Monterrey (2 lanes with shoulders for passing),
Hwy 85 south to Monterrey (4 lanes divided; use the toll portion, which is freeway),
Free bypass around Monterrey (4 lanes divided, no cross traffic),
Toll Hwy 40 west toward Saltillo (brand-new 4-lane freeway),
Rejoin the free road toward Saltillo for a short while (4 lanes divided, heavy traffic),
Hwy 57 south toward Matehuala (4 lanes divided, as will be all highways for quite some time here),
Toll bypass around Matehuala then rejoin mainline 57,
Toll bypass around San Luis Potosí then rejoin mainline 57,
Tollbypass around Querétaro (at the San Miguel de Allende interchange) then rejoin mainline 57,
Arco Norte (new highway - unsure of signage - shortly after the exit for San Fco. Soyaniquilpán)
Toll 150 from San Martín Texmelucán through Puebla and Córdoba,
Toll 145 to Minatitlán,
Toll 180 toward Coatzacalcos & Villahermosa,
Toll 187 toward Tuxtla Gutiérrez & Ocozocuautla (2 lane freeway)
West on Hwy 190 through Cintalapa (2 lanes,
South toward Arriaga signed as Hwy 190 (2 lanes, mountainous, use the toll portion),
West on Hwy 200 to Tapachula (use all bypasses, 4 lanes the rest of the way to Tapachula),
The border crossing at El Carmen is just past Tapachula (2 lanes).

Driving in México is safe.  México in general is still safe, as long as you aren't talking about trafficking hot spots like Juárez or Durango.  This route avoids such cities.  It also completely bypasses México City via freeway, thanks to the new Arco Norte.  Total distance from border to border, according to Google Maps, is 1447 miles.  Tolls will come to about 1700 pesos, which is about 125 dollars.

On the Guatemalan side, I don't know about safety.  I've read that there are very frequent military checkpoints, and that navigating is difficult.  Plot your route ahead of time with Google Maps, though, and it shouldn't be too difficult.  Paperwork, OTOH, is another matter;  I seem to recall that you can Google search that kind of thing, with people offering plenty of firsthand experience.