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Why doesn't i-84 end in providence?

Started by silverback1065, August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AM

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silverback1065

i was looking at google maps and noticed this, why does i-84 just shoot up to i-90 after it leaves hartford?  it would have made more sense for it to end in downtown providence.  was this ever proposed?  having a route to boston can still be done via 395 if it were redone. 


english si

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AMi was looking at google maps and noticed this, why does i-84 just shoot up to i-90 after it leaves hartford?
Because Hartford-Boston is a major route worthy of an interstate and is e-w more than n-s, with I-84 to the west of the city being an excellent number for it.
Quoteit would have made more sense for it to end in downtown providence.  was this ever proposed?
Yes. I-84 east of Hartford was even renumbered as the original I-86 (though the original proposal was for Hartford-Providence to be I-82). CT didn't build much of it and so reversed the numbering changes.

Kurumi has a history on it: http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html

Henry

What was supposed to have been I-84 is now I-384, and the US 6 expressway exists in a few parts as well.
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spooky

Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.

roadman

Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question.  Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
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silverback1065

i-90 through wolf lake in ill/in would never be built today. 

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question.  Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?

The northwest portion of the I-291 beltway around Hartford was stopped for the same reason.  It would have passed through the reservoirs in West Hartford.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Brandon

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 12:10:38 PM
i-90 through wolf lake in ill/in would never be built today. 

However, no one drinks the water from Wolf Lake.
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silverback1065

That doesn't matter, you still have ecological problems.
It's quite hard to do anything across bodies of water like that.

plain

#9
Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question.  Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?

I-220 Shreveport is the best example I can think of, though I'm not sure what impacts it had on the environment or when exactly when this section was built, it does take a rather peculiar route across the reservoir. There's also I-30 and I-35E in the Dallas area
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bzakharin

I-84 is also part of the fastest route between NYC and Boston, either via I-684 or I-91. If I-84 went toward Providence and only connected to I-90 via I-395, it would lengthen said route.

bugo

I-84 was once signed on the Willimantic bypass (now US 6):


KEVIN_224

Even today, you see the stub end in Johnston, RI, where US Route 6 veers north onto I-295 for a one exit span to meet up with US Route 6 proper. My next question is US Route 6 in the area of the Scituate Reservoir. There's US Route 6 and US Route 6 Bypass. Was one of those routes supposed to be another portion of the cancelled I-84?

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jp the roadgeek

Quote from: bzakharin on August 10, 2017, 03:35:23 PM
I-84 is also part of the fastest route between NYC and Boston, either via I-684 or I-91. If I-84 went toward Providence and only connected to I-90 via I-395, it would lengthen said route.

The East Hartford-Sturbridge piece of I-84 has existed since about 1940 when it was constructed as part of the Wilbur Cross Highway/Parkway as CT 15.  The rest of I-84 and the two existing pieces of the highway to Providence (I-384 from Spencer St east and the US 6 Willimantic bypass), wasn't constructed until the 1960's. 
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

JJBers

I don't really feel like having a highway in my backyard...
*for Connecticut
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roadman65

A lot of NIMBY people.  They want a highway but keep it out of my town.

I-84 would have been nice if it had not been cancelled as it would have connected to I-195 and that would have made a connection to Cape Cod.  Whether I-195 would have been eventually given the number as I don't think so, but if it were it would dangle as MA made no effort yet to even connect I-195 to MA 3 or even I-495 to it and you still have to use US 6 to connect the two.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Alps

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on August 10, 2017, 04:23:31 PM
Even today, you see the stub end in Johnston, RI, where US Route 6 veers north onto I-295 for a one exit span to meet up with US Route 6 proper. My next question is US Route 6 in the area of the Scituate Reservoir. There's US Route 6 and US Route 6 Bypass. Was one of those routes supposed to be another portion of the cancelled I-84?
Well, there's not US Route 6 and US Route 6 Bypass anymore, those are old designations. But still, the answer is no. I-84 would have run between them on its route from CT 695 (Turnpike end) to the US 6 freeway.

Alps

Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question.  Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?
Taconic Parkway across New Croton Reservoir - now two bridges. By far not the only one - I-5 over Lake Shasta is another that comes to mind, though I only know that as a manmade lake, unsure if it reservoirs.

02 Park Ave

I-76 and I-80 both cross the Meander Reservoir near Youngstown OH.
C-o-H

US 89

Quote from: roadman on August 10, 2017, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: spooky on August 10, 2017, 09:30:00 AM
Environmental permitting in RI was a large factor in RI cancelling the highway, which is referenced on Kurumi's page. If you look at a map you will see a large body of water in the way - that's the Scituate Reservoir, the state's main supply of drinking water.
Which raises an interesting question.  Are there any Interstate highways and/or freeways that were built across reservoirs before the current environmental permitting requirements, and have those highways proven to have a significant negative impact on the water quality of those reservoirs?

I-95 crosses Lake Marion near Santee, SC.

cpzilliacus

I-81 crosses the Potomac River, the only source of drinking water for the District of Columbia, and the primary source of drinking water for the D.C. suburbs in Maryland and  Virginia.

I-66 crosses the Shenandoah River and Goose Creek, larger tributaries of the Potomac River which also supply drinking water intakes downstream.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 08:18:12 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 07:50:58 AMi was looking at google maps and noticed this, why does i-84 just shoot up to i-90 after it leaves hartford?
Because Hartford-Boston is a major route worthy of an interstate and is e-w more than n-s, with I-84 to the west of the city being an excellent number for it.
Quoteit would have made more sense for it to end in downtown providence.  was this ever proposed?
Yes. I-84 east of Hartford was even renumbered as the original I-86 (though the original proposal was for Hartford-Providence to be I-82). CT didn't build much of it and so reversed the numbering changes.

Kurumi has a history on it: http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html

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roadman65

I-86 was first I-84 and then switched back as stated which makes a rare case as only a few times a road is switched and then switched back hence I-95 in Wilmington becoming short lived I-895 and then I-95 again and US 13 in Norfolk and Chesapeake going from US 13 to US 13 Bus. and back to US 13 again.

Interesting but that is why we all love roads (well most of us anyway lol) because of stuff like this. :awesomeface:
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

RobbieL2415

I can tolerate traffic on US 6.  It usually moves +/- 5mph inside the speed limit during peak times.  The only thing I could them doing is transitioning out the western Willimantic Bypass directly onto US 6, instead of tying up traffic at the half-trumpet interchange that's there now.  The ROW is still there and with a diversion of the Hop River would probably work.



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