How to stripe a multilane roundabout

[kphoger]

I don't know if most drivers are really going to have the time to look at lane markings, signage, painted arrows and other traffic ...

I agree with this.  When approaching a roundabout, there's a lot of information to digest–what with all the arrows, signs, curvature of the roadway, pavement markings, yield signs, etc–and it's simply too much to expect most people to fully comprehend.  So a lot of drivers are simply going to make their best educated guess at how to proceed.  The solution isn't to make signage and pavement markings as clear as possible, but rather to make the whole operation as intuitive as possible.

[UCFKnights]

^^^

Unfortunately, that sort of nonsense isn't uncommon. My late sister-in-law, who lived in Viera, was terrified of the roundabout on Wickham Road near the Target because so many people just drove through it however they pleased paying no attention to yielding, using the correct lane, or using blinkers; she always went around via the far side of I-95 specifically to avoid that roundabout. Doesn't surprise me at all to see someone making a mess of it. At least in that video there were no crashes.

Rightfully so. I have a friend who lived near that one, and every time I go there, nobody uses the lanes correctly. Including my friend, and when there parents were visiting and driving us around, they insisted on directing them to make a left from the right lane, as they do every single day. I tried to explain it to them that they're doing it wrong, and they wouldn't have it, insisting they do it every day so they know better then me, and its how everyone around here drives... I mean, they were right on that last point, the car in front of and behind us both entered the roundabout on Lake Andrew Dr, and made a left onto Wickham Rd. Infact, I'd say when I was there, it seemed like 70% of the vehicles in the right lane used it to make a left at that point.

[kphoger]

^^^

Unfortunately, that sort of nonsense isn't uncommon. My late sister-in-law, who lived in Viera, was terrified of the roundabout on Wickham Road near the Target because so many people just drove through it however they pleased paying no attention to yielding, using the correct lane, or using blinkers; she always went around via the far side of I-95 specifically to avoid that roundabout. Doesn't surprise me at all to see someone making a mess of it. At least in that video there were no crashes.

Rightfully so. I have a friend who lived near that one, and every time I go there, nobody uses the lanes correctly. Including my friend, and when there parents were visiting and driving us around, they insisted on directing them to make a left from the right lane, as they do every single day. I tried to explain it to them that they're doing it wrong, and they wouldn't have it, insisting they do it every day so they know better then me, and its how everyone around here drives... I mean, they were right on that last point, the car in front of and behind us both entered the roundabout on Lake Andrew Dr, and made a left onto Wickham Rd. Infact, I'd say when I was there, it seemed like 70% of the vehicles in the right lane used it to make a left at that point.

Good grief, that's about the simplest and most un-noteworthy two-lane roundabout imaginable, too.

[jakeroot]

It does seem that some of the design characteristics of roundabouts, particularly the arrows, and signage diagrammatics, would make us think FHWA views roundabouts as a single intersection. But most drivers seem to see them as, as has been pointed out above, circulating roadway with several intersections. If that's truly case, then individual drivers are going to look at those arrows differently, with it helping as many drivers as it hurts.

I have to wonder whether we should just not have any arrows at all. Arrows leading up to the roundabout, and then nothing in the circle.

I don't think most normal people think of a roundabout as numerous intersections - they're not going to say I'm on Road A, then at the intersection of Road A and B, turn left, then at Road A and Road C, turn left, then at Road A and Road D, turn right.  They're going to say something to the effect of "in the roundabout, exit at the 3rd exit", or "exit onto Route 123 West".

That's not what I was trying to imply. I think people view roundabouts as circles that you turn right onto, and then turn right off of. In this sense, there are never any straight movements at entering a roundabout, but instead a series of intersections where you can either continue straight around the roundabout, or turn right off of it. This is complete nonsense, but how else do you explain drivers continuing around from the wrong lane?

That said, I don't know if most drivers are really going to have the time to look at lane markings, signage, painted arrows and other traffic, especially on smaller roundabouts.  The better drivers will probably look at signage before they enter the roundabout to figure which lane to be in, but absent that, drivers will just continue around the circle until the need to exit, regardless of any paint in the roadway.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with that. Information overload is a serious problem, and I'm sure some drivers just switch off when they get to a roundabout because there's just so much going on.

[jakeroot]

I have to wonder whether we should just not have any arrows at all. Arrows leading up to the roundabout, and then nothing in the circle.

Heh.  Welcome to MA in the 1980s.

Shit, we're already there. Have you seen the crash rates at some of these large roundabouts? They may be down slightly from the rotaries of the '80s, but not much. I think the only true success story is the single lane roundabout.

[MCRoads]

^^^

Unfortunately, that sort of nonsense isn't uncommon. My late sister-in-law, who lived in Viera, was terrified of the roundabout on Wickham Road near the Target because so many people just drove through it however they pleased paying no attention to yielding, using the correct lane, or using blinkers; she always went around via the far side of I-95 specifically to avoid that roundabout. Doesn't surprise me at all to see someone making a mess of it. At least in that video there were no crashes.

Rightfully so. I have a friend who lived near that one, and every time I go there, nobody uses the lanes correctly. Including my friend, and when there parents were visiting and driving us around, they insisted on directing them to make a left from the right lane, as they do every single day. I tried to explain it to them that they're doing it wrong, and they wouldn't have it, insisting they do it every day so they know better then me, and its how everyone around here drives... I mean, they were right on that last point, the car in front of and behind us both entered the roundabout on Lake Andrew Dr, and made a left onto Wickham Rd. Infact, I'd say when I was there, it seemed like 70% of the vehicles in the right lane used it to make a left at that point.

Good grief, that's about the simplest and most un-noteworthy two-lane roundabout imaginable, too.

Here is a list of things me, my mom, or my dad have seen in a roundabout:

• stop in the circle to wait for a vehicle entering (this was my school bus driver, who should know better)
• stop and back up in the circle to take their correct exit (it's a CIRCLE, just go around!)
• go through the roundabout at high speed, taking a racing line, and cutting off at least one car who was already in the circle
• use the truck apron (IDK why, it isn't any faster, and just makes the ride unpleasant)
• at an "intersectionabout"  (basically an intersection with splitter islands where the left turn lanes are, and a small circular island in the center of the intersection): cut to the left of the center island
• (pedestrian) cut across diagonally, onto the center island. No, this wasn't a rotary where that is permitted.

[kphoger]

• at an "intersectionabout"  (basically an intersection with splitter islands where the left turn lanes are, and a small circular island in the center of the intersection): cut to the left of the center island

That's pretty common, at least in the absence of splitter islands.  I'm not sure I've ever seen one with splitter islands, though.

[MCRoads]

• at an "intersectionabout"  (basically an intersection with splitter islands where the left turn lanes are, and a small circular island in the center of the intersection): cut to the left of the center island

That's pretty common, at least in the absence of splitter islands.  I'm not sure I've ever seen one with splitter islands, though.

Well now you have!

[kphoger]

Oh, I was thinking of one of those traffic-calming things with a little dinky center island.

Got you now.

[Tom958]

Watch the grey car navigate through the roundabout at 0:42.  A lot of mistakes were made that day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXst6sNUFDk

Good God! WTF?

When I posted this in the Traffic Signals and Highway Signs Facebook group, it got this reply:

It's a frigging nightmare is what it is. Those of us who have to drive through it or work the crashes caused by our incompetent drivers will tell you! BTW, what's the point of putting a piece of artwork here when it will be obliterated by 16 cars within one hour of the time it's installed?

I thought he was exaggerating. Apparently not.

Anyway, here's my reply:

Be that as it may...

There's some evidence that multilane roundabouts are not nearly as safe as they're claimed to be, and that there's quite a bit of variation in accident rates between modern roundabouts that are similar in design. Some people deny and reject evidence that there's a problem, while others think that multilane roundabouts simply shouldn't be built. Myself, I think that we need to figure out how to make the most-unsafe multilane roundabouts a lot more like the safest ones. When I saw this paint scheme, specifically the four-stripe island-like markings between the lanes, it felt like an epiphany: it's much more obvious what each lane is supposed to do.

It may well be that drivers in Sarasota are so hopelessly stupid that trying to improve the situation there is a waste of effort. However, Sarasota isn't the only place in the nation with problematic multilane roundabouts. Perhaps this scheme would work in places with smarter drivers.

[kphoger]

To be fair, why should we expect people to intuitively know what four solid white lines mean?  If anything, the most obvious meaning might be "edge of roadway", not "lane separator".

[roadfro]

To be fair, why should we expect people to intuitively know what four solid white lines mean?  If anything, the most obvious meaning might be "edge of roadway", not "lane separator".

True.

The same effect could be achieved by removing the the inner lines and using white chevron markings inside the outer lines instead. That might actually be better, since it would already be MUTCD-compliant.