Ampersand (&) on freeway exit signs

[renegade]

You mean this one here?

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.0240727,-84.5563987,3a,15y,149.25h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seZ-JqmEjQyJlr-UI2BBxMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US

Yes, thanks! Google Maps on iPad wouldn't let me share the streetview link. Thanks for the assist

My pleasure!   

[amroad17]

Exit tab for OH 126 "Exits 32B&C". This is the only example I can think of right now, as normally, the state uses dashes for suffixed exits.

Here is another one in the Cincinnati area on OH 129...
https://goo.gl/maps/YVZSNXgh5DorJZSx9

Because of the "potato" quality of early Google Street View images, the EXIT tab reads EXITS 25A&B. 

The Google car hasn't been on that stretch of OH 129 since 2008?!?  Incredibly, once you pan at the start of the bridge, the image is from 2 years ago. 

[roadfro]

^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

Except the problem is that MoDOT specs say that "Route" must be prefixed on every route number, including Interstates, and that it must never be abbreviated, ever. So you get this funky "Route I-xx" construction that shows up whenever MoDOT has to refer to an interstate in text form.



Of course, KDOT (and most other states) would solve this problem by just signing it "".

Exactly what I was going to say. What an odd spec to have... Using the shields is so much clearer–even if it results in a slightly taller sign, there's less width so it likely balances out.

And to save some horizontal space in this instance, they could have at least used regular dashes instead of em dashes. I'm also not familiar enough to know whether for this example if the first three lines are all one exit or multiple exits very closely spaced. But if they were all one exit, they could have used the em dash to combine two road names to one line.

^ That entire last line is bonkers. "Jct Routes" could be eliminated. Presumably US-50 (dash and all) could be as well, and then you could have a sign about half the width of that one.

Also, I think that 2 could be moved to the right a bit.

Actually, if anything, the 2 should be moved to the left to line up with the fractions above (whole numbers left of fractions).

That makes sense but I don't recall actually seeing signs like that.

That's concerning. It's a MUTCD convention for the whole numbers to be aligned left of fractions on these interchange sequence signs. It's actually one of my pet peeves when I see a sign that doesn't follow the convention.

[tylert120]

https://goo.gl/maps/yKwK7RsPH9oNmPHd6

[noelbotevera]

The reason why it's rare is because it's discouraged by the MUTCD:

Periods, apostrophes, question marks, ampersands, or other punctuation or characters that are not letters, numerals, or hyphens should not be used in abbreviations, unless necessary to avoid confusion.

The solidus (slanted line or forward slash) is intended to be used for fractions only and should not be used to separate words on the same line of legend. Instead, a hyphen should be used for this purpose, such as "CARS — TRUCKS."

Amusingly, the example the MUTCD gives uses an en dash, not a hyphen, but whatever.

I'm actually curious why this is no bueno, especially since many place names were originally spelled with apostrophes and in some cases, tildes. Let's face it, Warriors Mark or Harpers Ferry is silly, especially since the latter's ferry was owned by a man named Harper...not Harpers.

[hotdogPi]

The reason why it's rare is because it's discouraged by the MUTCD:

Periods, apostrophes, question marks, ampersands, or other punctuation or characters that are not letters, numerals, or hyphens should not be used in abbreviations, unless necessary to avoid confusion.

The solidus (slanted line or forward slash) is intended to be used for fractions only and should not be used to separate words on the same line of legend. Instead, a hyphen should be used for this purpose, such as "CARS — TRUCKS."

Amusingly, the example the MUTCD gives uses an en dash, not a hyphen, but whatever.

I'm actually curious why this is no bueno, especially since many place names were originally spelled with apostrophes and in some cases, tildes. Let's face it, Warriors Mark or Harpers Ferry is silly, especially since the latter's ferry was owned by a man named Harper...not Harpers.

Even worse: Fishs [various things].

[kphoger]

Of course, the apostrophe was allowed to remain for a small number of place names.  Granted, few of them have road signs.

See here but, then again, see here.

[Bruce]

Of course, the apostrophe was allowed to remain for a small number of place names.  Granted, few of them have road signs.

See here but, then again, see here.

Most signs in the Spokane area pointing towards Coeur d'Alene use the apostrophe for obvious reasons. "Coeur dAlene" just looks awful.

[Mr_Northside]

I-70 East & West (and also I-81 East & West) near Hagerstown MD:
https://goo.gl/maps/QpvZ8RCxTbE4mBDP6

I-70 is set up like that for it's I-81 (the same) exit..... but I swear I remember old signs, maybe back in the 80s / early 90's that had some sort of symbol instead of an ampersand (but designed to mean the same thing).
But my mind might just be playing tricks on me.

[RobbieL2415]

(Maybe MoDOT should stop trying to cram four roads on one sign panel...)

Three's a stretch:

At that point, just use shields.

[kphoger]

Isn't the use of shields on mileage signs a relatively new thing?  As in, only in the last couple of decades?

[Scott5114]

Isn't the use of shields on mileage signs a relatively new thing?  As in, only in the last couple of decades?

I think it varies by state. Kansas has been using shields on mileage signs since at least the 1990s, if not earlier.

Missouri is just late on a lot of things–they were one of the last states to adopt rectangular shields for three-digit routes, for example.

[kphoger]

Isn't the use of shields on mileage signs a relatively new thing?  As in, only in the last couple of decades?

I think it varies by state. Kansas has been using shields on mileage signs since at least the 1990s, if not earlier.

Missouri is just late on a lot of things–they were one of the last states to adopt rectangular shields for three-digit routes, for example.

I remember seeing shields on mileage signs in the 1990s, and being surprised because it seemed like a new practice.

So I think it's funny that we've gone from "not really a thing" to "why would any agency not do that" during the span of my driving career.

[odditude]

Here's an example of a Clearview ampersand (which has since been greened out).

[KCRoadFan]

Of course, the apostrophe was allowed to remain for a small number of place names.  Granted, few of them have road signs.

See here but, then again, see here.

Most signs in the Spokane area pointing towards Coeur d'Alene use the apostrophe for obvious reasons. "Coeur dAlene" just looks awful.

As for the second photo (the one with the Sandpoint sign) - what's up with that font?

[vdeane]

Looks like a classic case of the 3/4 error (which happens based on a misinterpretation of the MUTCD where people don't realize that the font file already sizes the lower-case letters appropriately and scale them down even further).

[KCRoadFan]

Update: "Lucas & Hunt Road"  is now "Lucas-Hunt Road"  on the signs. When I drove through the area a couple weeks ago, I saw that MoDOT put small green squares with hyphens over the ampersands.

[skluth]

Update: "Lucas & Hunt Road"  is now "Lucas-Hunt Road"  on the signs. When I drove through the area a couple weeks ago, I saw that MoDOT put small green squares with hyphens over the ampersands.

That's just stupid. Everybody in St Louis knows it as Lucas & Hunt, not Lucas-Hunt or even Lucas and Hunt.

[JustDrive]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VbaeoTc6ohL1ZA8B7?g_st=ic

NB 805 in Chula Vista has this sign, because E Street and Bonita Road (the same continuous street) shares an off ramp with H Street