Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

Unrelated, but last week I was driving around near the east side of Appleton, and along Kensington Drive between College Ave (County CE?) and Newberry St, I noticed two buildings with the following addresses: N629 and N710 Kensington Drive (at least one was a house).  This is weird because I thought that whole area (being that it's inside of WI 441 after all) was part of the City of Appleton and thus should get Appleton-style addresses as opposed to on the county's rural system.

So is this area part of the COA, and if not, why doesn't the COA just annex them?

And on a related note, if County CE supposedly begins at the John St/Walter Ave roundabout, why are there no signs in either direction until the WI 441 interchange?

Did they have the traditional fire marker addresses?  If so, that is an unincorporated area.

If they just have the directional letter in front of the address, that could be because the post office treats it as part of their rural route.  For instance, I live in an incorporated city, but my "post office official" address is "N1603" because my house is along a rural route for mail delivery.

The post office does this because they can pay less to rural route postal carriers.  I believe they don't have union status but someone can correct me if I am wrong.

[peterj920]

The rural mail carriers have their own union separate from the other postal carriers.  I looked at a Town of Buchanan map and there are some isolated parcels that are in the Town and are not part of Appleton.  99% of everything else west of 441 is part of Appleton.  Festival, Lowes, and the Movie Theater are part of the Town of Buchanan east of 441.  I have a link to the map below.

http://www.townofbuchanan.org/media/1413/officialmaplegalsizerod2016.pdf

[Rothman]

Dividing unions like that was the biggest con on the workers ever.  Weakened their position in trade for the idea that their role was somehow exceptional and in need of specific representation.  Not the best trade.

[mgk920]

Unrelated, but last week I was driving around near the east side of Appleton, and along Kensington Drive between College Ave (County CE?) and Newberry St, I noticed two buildings with the following addresses: N629 and N710 Kensington Drive (at least one was a house).  This is weird because I thought that whole area (being that it's inside of WI 441 after all) was part of the City of Appleton and thus should get Appleton-style addresses as opposed to on the county's rural system.

So is this area part of the COA, and if not, why doesn't the COA just annex them?

And on a related note, if County CE supposedly begins at the John St/Walter Ave roundabout, why are there no signs in either direction until the WI 441 interchange?

Those houses with the 'oddball' addresses (Outagamie County 'fire number' grid, used in all of the unincorporated parts of the county other than for Grand Chute Township, which uses the City of Appleton address number grid) are in fact in Buchanon Township and yes, Appleton has been trying to annex that tiny remnant of township west of WI 441 ever since at least the 1970s, when that township area was the entire triangle bounded by Newberry St, the railroad and the Village of Kimberly.  Why hasn't the City succeeded in getting those few houses yet?  Gotta talk to your state legislators about that one.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, County 'CE' ends at WI 441.
[Fantasy mode]If I were the WisDOT highway planning Poo-Bah, I would extend County 'CE' southeastward and eastward past Hollandtown and then southeastward towards Forest Junction as a 'super two' freeway/expressway on an upgradable four-lane new ROW and use it as a reroute for US 10, this to get US 10 off of the increasingly congested Oneida St and WI 114 in Appleton and Menasha and give it a much better feed into the metro area from the east.  Every time that I drive eastward from WI 441 on County 'CE', I can't help but think that it would make a perfect reroute of US 10.[/Fantasy mode]

Mike

[peterj920]

The property owners have to petition for annexation and those property owners west of 441 must be ok with residing in the Town of Buchanan.  Property taxes are probably lower being a part of the Town than the city. 

[20160805]

Unrelated, but last week I was driving around near the east side of Appleton, and along Kensington Drive between College Ave (County CE?) and Newberry St, I noticed two buildings with the following addresses: N629 and N710 Kensington Drive (at least one was a house).  This is weird because I thought that whole area (being that it's inside of WI 441 after all) was part of the City of Appleton and thus should get Appleton-style addresses as opposed to on the county's rural system.

So is this area part of the COA, and if not, why doesn't the COA just annex them?

And on a related note, if County CE supposedly begins at the John St/Walter Ave roundabout, why are there no signs in either direction until the WI 441 interchange?

Those houses with the 'oddball' addresses (Outagamie County 'fire number' grid, used in all of the unincorporated parts of the county other than for Grand Chute Township, which uses the City of Appleton address number grid) are in fact in Buchanon Township and yes, Appleton has been trying to annex that tiny remnant of township west of WI 441 ever since at least the 1970s, when that township area was the entire triangle bounded by Newberry St, the railroad and the Village of Kimberly.  Why hasn't the City succeeded in getting those few houses yet?  Gotta talk to your state legislators about that one.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, County 'CE' ends at WI 441.
[Fantasy mode]If I were the WisDOT highway planning Poo-Bah, I would extend County 'CE' southeastward and eastward past Hollandtown and then southeastward towards Forest Junction as a 'super two' freeway/expressway on an upgradable four-lane new ROW and use it as a reroute for US 10, this to get US 10 off of the increasingly congested Oneida St and WI 114 in Appleton and Menasha and give it a much better feed into the metro area from the east.  Every time that I drive eastward from WI 441 on County 'CE', I can't help but think that it would make a perfect reroute of US 10.[/Fantasy mode]

Mike

Seems legit; it's just a shame that a new roundabout has been put in along CE and with all the new developments going on over there, soon it'll probably just be 35 mph all the way to Appleton.

And what do you make of the construction at the intersection of WI 47 (Richmond St) and County OO (Northland Ave) on the north side of Appleton, replacing the traffic light with a roundabout?  I think it's stupid, personally; now we're forcing 40,000 people each day through that cramped little space, adding to congestion, and probably jacking the speed limit on OO down to 30/35 too.

[mgk920]

Unrelated, but last week I was driving around near the east side of Appleton, and along Kensington Drive between College Ave (County CE?) and Newberry St, I noticed two buildings with the following addresses: N629 and N710 Kensington Drive (at least one was a house).  This is weird because I thought that whole area (being that it's inside of WI 441 after all) was part of the City of Appleton and thus should get Appleton-style addresses as opposed to on the county's rural system.

So is this area part of the COA, and if not, why doesn't the COA just annex them?

And on a related note, if County CE supposedly begins at the John St/Walter Ave roundabout, why are there no signs in either direction until the WI 441 interchange?

Those houses with the 'oddball' addresses (Outagamie County 'fire number' grid, used in all of the unincorporated parts of the county other than for Grand Chute Township, which uses the City of Appleton address number grid) are in fact in Buchanon Township and yes, Appleton has been trying to annex that tiny remnant of township west of WI 441 ever since at least the 1970s, when that township area was the entire triangle bounded by Newberry St, the railroad and the Village of Kimberly.  Why hasn't the City succeeded in getting those few houses yet?  Gotta talk to your state legislators about that one.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, County 'CE' ends at WI 441.
[Fantasy mode]If I were the WisDOT highway planning Poo-Bah, I would extend County 'CE' southeastward and eastward past Hollandtown and then southeastward towards Forest Junction as a 'super two' freeway/expressway on an upgradable four-lane new ROW and use it as a reroute for US 10, this to get US 10 off of the increasingly congested Oneida St and WI 114 in Appleton and Menasha and give it a much better feed into the metro area from the east.  Every time that I drive eastward from WI 441 on County 'CE', I can't help but think that it would make a perfect reroute of US 10.[/Fantasy mode]

Mike

Seems legit; it's just a shame that a new roundabout has been put in along CE and with all the new developments going on over there, soon it'll probably just be 35 mph all the way to Appleton.

And what do you make of the construction at the intersection of WI 47 (Richmond St) and County OO (Northland Ave) on the north side of Appleton, replacing the traffic light with a roundabout?  I think it's stupid, personally; now we're forcing 40,000 people each day through that cramped little space, adding to congestion, and probably jacking the speed limit on OO down to 30/35 too.

I like the planned roundabout at Northland (County 'OO')/Richmond (WI 47).  IMHO, it will likely function much like the ones at Green Bay/Winneconne (WI 114) in Neenah, Jackson/Murdock (US 45/WI 76) in Oshkosh or the one at College/John/Walter (east end of College Ave Fox River bridge) in Appleton.  Traffic and safety relief is very much needed there.

One item about it, when the Wisconsin Highway Commission (precursor to WisDOT) first built the US 41 Appleton bypass (original two-lane Northland and Westland Aves) back in the mid-late 1930s, they included ROW for what were then fairly wide 'vision corners' at its major intersections.  That made ROW acquisition for the now under-construction Northland/Richmond roundabout a non-issue.

As for County 'CE' eastward from WI 441, all of my US 10 freeway upgrade musings regarding it have been on the assumption that the current development along County 'CE' would happen.  My thoughts have always been on the lines of what WisDOT did at the I-41/Shawano Ave (WI 29/32) 'Shawano' Interchange in Green Bay/Howard or has planned at the I-39/90/I-43/WI 81 'Beloit' Interchange.  In my discussions with the WisDOT guys regarding WI 441/College, I have also often used US 83/281 (now I-2/69C) in McAllen/Pharr, TX as an example of what could be adapted for use there.

To me, the intersection roundabouts on County 'CE' are a non-issue in this regard.  They are just different styles of intersections along the way, essentially stop-gap traffic capacity and safety upgrades that will hold until more major, substantive 'real' upgrades can be done.

One more quick note, if US 10 would be so rerouted, I would renumber and mark Oneida St from WI 114 to the north end of the Skyline Bridge ('hanging' end at Prospect Ave?) to 'WI 510'.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

The state of Wisconsin has gone on a roundabout binge since at least the early 2000's. I don't expect it to stop anytime soon.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

An appeals court ruled that federal money is not allowed to be used on the WIS 23 project between Fond du Lac and Sheboygan.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/27/appeals-court-rules-wisconsin-cant-use-federal-money-highway-23/430087001/

[SEWIGuy]

An appeals court ruled that federal money is not allowed to be used on the WIS 23 project between Fond du Lac and Sheboygan.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/27/appeals-court-rules-wisconsin-cant-use-federal-money-highway-23/430087001/

Since the federal government did not appeal the ruling, should we interpret this that they think WIDOT's traffic projects were bunk as well?

[The Ghostbuster]

Even if the traffic counts are bunk, I consider the lawsuit to be frivolous. WIS 23 should have been four-laned by now.

[dvferyance]

The state of Wisconsin has gone on a roundabout binge since at least the early 2000's. I don't expect it to stop anytime soon.

It should Gov Walker promised it would and with the Transportation budget broke it would be irresponsible not to cut down on it. These roundabouts are very costly and many have been built were stops signs would have worked just as well. There are plenty of roundabouts in this state as is anyways.

[SEWIGuy]

Even if the traffic counts are bunk, I consider the lawsuit to be frivolous. WIS 23 should have been four-laned by now.

"I don't care if WIDOT fudged data to get federal funding, I just want my highway."

[triplemultiplex]

It should Gov Walker promised it would and with the Transportation budget broke it would be irresponsible not to cut down on it. These roundabouts are very costly and many have been built were stops signs would have worked just as well. There are plenty of roundabouts in this state as is anyways.

Do we really have to cover this again?
Four way stops and left turn arrows can suck it.  Give me roundabouts all day!

[Finrod]

The state of Wisconsin has gone on a roundabout binge since at least the early 2000's. I don't expect it to stop anytime soon.

It's not just Wisconsin.  They're showing up all over the place down here in Georgia and I hear about them popping up in Indiana (my old home state) as well.

[invincor]

Roundabouts can be annoying, but in general they are more useful and better choices than stoplights or 4-way stops.  Still, WIDOT did go overboard with them for a while.  There's a stretch of WI 65 between I-94 at Roberts and New Richmond where there's six of them in 10 miles, and half of them could've/should've been left as ordinary intersections where 65 goes through and the intersecting county road has stop signs. 

Also, I seem to be the only person in my area who knows how and when to use a turn signal in one. 

[hobsini2]

Roundabouts can be annoying, but in general they are more useful and better choices than stoplights or 4-way stops.  Still, WIDOT did go overboard with them for a while.  There's a stretch of WI 65 between I-94 at Roberts and New Richmond where there's six of them in 10 miles, and half of them could've/should've been left as ordinary intersections where 65 goes through and the intersecting county road has stop signs. 

Also, I seem to be the only person in my area who knows how and when to use a turn signal in one. 

On US 45 in Oshkosh, at last count in 2015, there are at least 4 I know of between I-41/US 41 and Downtown. That is a stretch of maybe 4 miles.

[jakeroot]

There's a stretch of WI 65 between I-94 at Roberts and New Richmond where there's six of them in 10 miles, and half of them could've/should've been left as ordinary intersections where 65 goes through and the intersecting county road has stop signs.

Perhaps WisDOT predicted some major growth in traffic at those junctions. Better to build them, while you have the money, than wait until you need the roundabout, only to discover that there's no money.

[skluth]

Roundabouts can be annoying, but in general they are more useful and better choices than stoplights or 4-way stops.  Still, WIDOT did go overboard with them for a while.  There's a stretch of WI 65 between I-94 at Roberts and New Richmond where there's six of them in 10 miles, and half of them could've/should've been left as ordinary intersections where 65 goes through and the intersecting county road has stop signs. 

Also, I seem to be the only person in my area who knows how and when to use a turn signal in one. 

On US 45 in Oshkosh, at last count in 2015, there are at least 4 I know of between I-41/US 41 and Downtown. That is a stretch of maybe 4 miles.

I don't know if Green Bay has the highest concentration of roundabouts, but the stretch along Shawano Avenue has the most I've seen.
  Roundabout at corner of Shawano Av and Taylor. Travel about 1500 feet west to
  Roundabout at Shawano and NB I-43 ramps. Travel about 650 feet west to
  Roundabout at Shawano and SB I-43 ramps. Travel about 750 feet west to
  Roundabout at Shawano and Duck Creek Parkway. Travel about 2400 feet west to
  Roundabout at Shawano, Packerland Parkway, Cardinal Lane, and WB ramp to WI 29.

That's five roundabouts in less than a mile. But we're not done yet. At this point, you can go south on Packerland Drive and hit two more roundabouts within 900 feet or go north on Cardinal Lane and hit another roundabout within 1000 feet. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.5400224,-88.07973,16.04z?hl=en

My youngest brother's home is on the route going south on Packerland Drive. I hit all but the Shawano/Taylor roundabout (plus another where County RK meets County J) when I visit. It's not bad but easy to get confused, especially if you haven't visited for a while and the weather is bad. I'd hate to deal with this everyday for a commute. I love roundabouts, but even I think this is overkill.
 

[skluth]

County F/Scheuring Road in nearby DePere is almost as bad. Six roundabouts within 1 3/4 miles. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.430027,-88.1011814,16.25z?hl=en

[mgk920]

This project will upgrade a short section of WI 29 west of the WI 32 split interchange NW of Green Bay to a full freeway.

For anyone who was at my 2014 Appleton-Green Bay roadmeet, the intersection on WI 29 at the Brown-Shawano County line that we stopped and turned around at for a county clinching is being eliminated and replaced with an overpass and WI 156 is being rerouted to follow 'old' WI 29 from there eastward to feed into the WI 32 interchange.

http://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/gov-walker-approves-wis-29156-improvements/756999014

Enjoy!

Mike

[I-39]

This project will upgrade a short section of WI 29 west of the WI 32 split interchange NW of Green Bay to a full freeway.

For anyone who was at my 2014 Appleton-Green Bay roadmeet, the intersection on WI 29 at the Brown-Shawano County line that we stopped and turned around at for a county clinching is being eliminated and replaced with an overpass and WI 156 is being rerouted to follow 'old' WI 29 from there eastward to feed into the WI 32 interchange.

http://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/gov-walker-approves-wis-29156-improvements/756999014

Enjoy!

Mike

When are they going to finish the upgrades between County FF and WIS 32? That should have been done a while ago.

[dvferyance]

County F/Scheuring Road in nearby DePere is almost as bad. Six roundabouts within 1 3/4 miles. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.430027,-88.1011814,16.25z?hl=en

I am with you on that one. I am ok with some roundabouts but what drives me nuts the most are series of them having 3 or 4 within a short distance or having them on high speed roads. If WisDOT would avoid those kind of roundabouts then I would say I am ok with them.

[wanderer2575]

County F/Scheuring Road in nearby DePere is almost as bad. Six roundabouts within 1 3/4 miles. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.430027,-88.1011814,16.25z?hl=en

I disagree.  If there are going to be that many controlled intersections that close together, I'd rather they be roundabouts than signalized.  Can't synchronize that many signals that close together in both directions. 

The real question is why it's necessary to have that many controlled intersections that close together.

[GeekJedi]

County F/Scheuring Road in nearby DePere is almost as bad. Six roundabouts within 1 3/4 miles. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.430027,-88.1011814,16.25z?hl=en

I am with you on that one. I am ok with some roundabouts but what drives me nuts the most are series of them having 3 or 4 within a short distance or having them on high speed roads. If WisDOT would avoid those kind of roundabouts then I would say I am ok with them.

Yeah, that's a tough one. I do agree with you on that - multiple successive roundabouts can be confusing. Wanderer2575 has a great point though - that would be a mess if it was all signalized. I think that in that area, the options were a bunch of signalized intersections, change road access, or roundabouts.