Wisconsin notes

[tchafe1978]

One question I have if they do in fact go with two northbound lanes through the interchange is instead of having the lane drop from the left lane, why not have the lane drop as part of the ramp to the EB/WB beltline?I think that would create less merging.

[mgk920]

Like other expressway-to-freeway conversions proposed around the state, a lot of patience is required. These conversions, of course, are long-term in length, and won't happen quickly. And like tchafe1978 said, the conversions will be one-project-at-a-time.

IMHO, US 41 between Milwaukee and Green Bay is a classic case - despite being at least four lanes divided the whole way since about 1968 (when the last two-lane parts between Kaukauna and Green Bay and across the Oshkosh Causeway were upgraded to four lanes divided), it was not fully up to interstate standards and thus able to be so designated until 2015.  The last at-grade intersection was cut off in about 2000.

Besides US 151 between Fond du Lac and the Iowa state line, WI 29 between I-94 (Elk Mound interchange) and the Green Bay area is the same way.  Ditto US 10 between I-39 and I-41.

There were still driveways on US-41 just south of Green Bay about 20 years ago.

The west frontage road that is a short distance SW of Scheuring Rd, just past the curve where the three to two lane drop is, was the southbound side of the highway mainline before US 41 was upgraded to a full freeway.  The present-day southbound side of I-41 there was built in the previously much wider median.

Mike

[JREwing78]

One question I have if they do in fact go with two northbound lanes through the interchange is instead of having the lane drop from the left lane, why not have the lane drop as part of the ramp to the EB/WB beltline?I think that would create less merging.

Thought about that myself. On a second look at the Beltline interchange plans, it looks like WisDOT want to free up available space for the 3->2 merge by keeping three full lanes past the Beltline exit. They run a 4th lane as an exit lane for a distance. Slots for the left lane to merge into opens up, and then the left lane traffic can safely merge into the center lane.

A lane drop at I-39/90 would force all the weaving movements before the exit, ultimately reducing safe throughput. As much bitching as we've done (myself included) about not having three full through lanes, putting in a simple lane drop at the Beltline would be worse.

So basically, WisDOT has done everything to smooth the EBD Beltline traffic merge into NBD I-39/90 traffic short of adding two additional NBD lanes north of the merge point.

[JREwing78]

I attended a public information meeting tonight about upcoming work to US-14 between Evansville and Janesville, as described here:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us14-rockcounty/default.aspx

The biggest concerns from local residents (at least the vocal ones) by far was regarding the intersection at County H. The plans call for reconstructing the intersection with channelized left and right turn lanes, with a concrete curb separating each direction of traffic on US-14. Many folks demanded further action - a stoplight, a reduced speed limit, etc. There was consternation when advised that a) the studies WisDOT performed showed that, based on current traffic levels, a stoplight would be LESS safe than leaving the stop signs for County H in place, and b) dropping the speed limit would be largely ignored.

One brave soul stood up and floated the idea of putting a roundabout there. That went over like a lead balloon with the rest of the room.  It *would* calm down traffic - no doubt about that. But this room of mostly over-50 folks wanted nothing to do with roundabouts.

There were a few that voiced (valid) concerns about the lack of remedy for another dangerous intersection, at S. River Rd immediately east of the Rock River bridge. US-14 east of County H has sufficient traffic that it should just be 4-laned, but thanks in part to WisDOT funding troubles (and a large price tag) all it's basically getting is fresh pavement with a few intersection band-aids.

I'm curious to read what tomorrow's Janesville Gazette has to report about the meeting. It was honestly quite entertaining. I'm not sure if the WisDOT folks knew what kind of buzzsaw they were walking into when they arrived at the Center Town Hall tonight.

Edited to correct unclear text.

[WarrenWallace]

Big problem that I see at US 14 and CTH H is all the westbound 14 traffic turning left (south) onto H while also all the northbound H traffic wanting to turn left (west) onto 14.  I am one of the individuals turning west onto 14 from H at least weekly and there can be times where it is just not safe to try to turn.  And the DOT is right, reducing speeds won't do anything, just look at 14/59 at Union.  Personally I wouldn't mind a roundabout, since it would help me and my movements, and I'm not afraid of them like the talk radio listening crowd.

[Big John]

based on current traffic levels, a stoplight would be LESS safe than placing a stoplight at the intersection,

Did you mean stop sign?

[WarrenWallace]

Gazette Article
https://www.gazettextra.com/news/government/traffic-safety-a-big-concern-at-highway-meeting/article_eceea51f-f447-5bb1-8ee0-1179d583cd1e.html

[JREwing78]

based on current traffic levels, a stoplight would be LESS safe than placing a stoplight at the intersection,

Did you mean stop sign?

Fixed. Thanks.

[JREwing78]

I think their plans for the channelized left and right turn lanes on US-14 at County H will help a lot. Ditto having the dedicated right turn lanes from County H to US-14. If, at some point, a stoplight gets installed there, it's already prepped for the light.

At some point (2040?), WisDOT is going to have to bit the bullet and 4-lane US-14, at least from County H to US-51. That stretch has stupid amounts of traffic for a 2-lane highway. But with current state level politics in play, it's ain't happening anytime soon.

[SEWIGuy]

Gazette Article
https://www.gazettextra.com/news/government/traffic-safety-a-big-concern-at-highway-meeting/article_eceea51f-f447-5bb1-8ee0-1179d583cd1e.html

From the article:

"The state considered connecting the Highway 11 bypass south of Janesville northward to Highway 14 about six years ago, but residents in the area objected, and the idea was dropped."

<sigh>

Public input is important obviously, but this is why it always needs to be balanced.  The public is basing their input on current conditions and not on future growth.  When the Highway 11 bypass was constructed, it didn't solve the issue of getting traffic north of Janesville to Highway 11.  (Going on I-39/90 to the new bypass is completely out of the way.)  Adding this into the bypass project would have solved a lot of these problems.

I also believe this portion of County H was a state highway until the late 1990s.  WI-184?

[The Ghostbuster]

Correct. CTH-H between STH-11 and STH-59 was STH-184 from 1947 to 1999. Although I've never traveled along that stretch of US 14, I'm sure an expansion to 4 lanes is warranted. In fact, I'd support making US 14 four lanes for its entire length between Madison and Janesville. Unfortunately, it will probably be a few decades before that happens, if it happens at all.

[JREwing78]

Correct. CTH-H between STH-11 and STH-59 was STH-184 from 1947 to 1999. Although I've never traveled along that stretch of US 14, I'm sure an expansion to 4 lanes is warranted. In fact, I'd support making US 14 four lanes for its entire length between Madison and Janesville. Unfortunately, it will probably be a few decades before that happens, if it happens at all.

Keep it going to I-43 in Darien. US-14/Hwy 11 has heavier traffic east of Janesville, if anything.

[JREwing78]

Some winding down on the I-39/90 expansion for the year. So far, the NBD lanes between Newville and County AB just south of the Beltline are completed, as well as the SBD lanes between E. Church Rd (N of the US-51 exit for Stoughton) and Newville. Work on the SBD lanes from County AB to E Church Rd will happen next year.

The NBD lanes between E. Hart Rd in Beloit and US-14 in Janesville are also done, with the SBD lanes picking up next year. Work around the I-43 interchange is underway. Much of the NBD I-39/90 work necessary for two-way traffic between Janesville and Newville is done, though additional work is needed early in the spring.

With the majority of the construction work done for the season, WisDOT hinted on the project's Facebook page that speed limits may be reset back to 70 on much of the route. Stay tuned.

[mgk920]

Although I haven't driven it in a couple of years, I note from a very recent Big Rig Steve trip that most of the new concrete paving for the northbound side of the I-41/94 eight lane upgrade project in Racine and Kenosha Counties is now in.  Traffic is down to two lanes each way on the old southbound side through most of Racine County.

Grading work for the upgraded highway is now underway in southern Milwaukee County, too.

Mike

[mrose]

US 14 should have been four-laned between I-90/39 and I-43 years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now.

It's always been heavy between Janesville and Madison too, though I'm not sure if it was every heavy enough to be four-laned the whole way. But it certainly should be around both sides of Janesville.

And I haven't lived in the area for 20 years.... but even back then it was problematic.

[JREwing78]

US 14 should have been four-laned between I-90/39 and I-43 years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now.

It's always been heavy between Janesville and Madison too, though I'm not sure if it was every heavy enough to be four-laned the whole way. But it certainly should be around both sides of Janesville.

And I haven't lived in the area for 20 years.... but even back then it was problematic.

US-14/Hwy 11 traffic is sufficiently bad that I frequently take CTH MM, CTH M, and CTH C to catch I-43. Or, if I'm headed to Milwaukee, CTH A to CTH ES around the north side of Elkhorn. Traffic is rarely light enough during the day on US-14/Hwy 11 to make passing a realistic option. The Hwy 140 intersection near Emerald Grove is a notorious spot for accidents and probably should be a stoplight.

WisDOT's intention was to 4-lane US-14/Hwy 11 to connect Janesville to I-43 at Darien, then route a 4-lane section along Avalon Rd around and up the west side of Janesville to meet the current US-14 alignment west of the Rock River. They got the Avalon Rd section 4-laned and routed up the west side to meet existing Hwy 11 (Court St) before the GM plant closing and NIMBYs in the Town of Janesville put a kibosh on further buildout. (Of course, this is the same group complaining about not getting a stoplight at CTH H right now.)

US-14 through traffic on the existing 4-laned section around Janesville's north side is heavy but tolerable. Planned work in 2022 on the section between Hwy 26 and Wright Rd will help smooth traffic. Interestingly, traffic counts are just a little under that of Hwy 26 with 6 lanes. But with less side-street interruptions, 4 lanes manage it adequately. West of US-51 to CTH H, traffic is high enough to warrant 4 lanes.

I imagine an uncorked I-39/90 will have some impact on US-14 traffic counts west of Janesville, but Evansville, Brooklyn, and Oregon have grown considerably. US-14 north of Evansville is awful enough that 4-laning chatter keeps bubbling up - WisDOT keeps trying to push a 4-lane down to Brooklyn but gets stymied by funding.

The thing is, even with those issues and an uncorked I-39/90, US-14 is routinely as quick or quicker to Park St. and Madison's west side from Janesville thanks to Beltline congestion issues.

[The Ghostbuster]

Another note on US 14 between Madison and Janesville, regarding the portion between STH-138 and STH-92. In 1976, land was purchased west of the existing road, as part of a future project to reroute US 14. Earlier this decade, the DOT website had a proposal to relocate US 14 onto this relocated alignment, as a four-lane freeway. There would be interchanges at CTH-A and possibly STH-92. That proposal has apparently been scrapped, and the only construction will be resurfacing the existing alignment between 138 and 92 in 2022, with a roundabout being built at the US 14/STH-92/Biglow Road intersection. Information is listed here: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us14-wis92/default.aspx.

[peterj920]

Wis 29 will soon be freeway between the Brown/Shawano County Line and I-41.  The County VV interchange juist received a grant to begin construction soon.  Will also have a County U and new Pine Tree Rd overpasses. 

https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Brown-County-receives-nearly-20-million-for-29-VV-Project-502448551.html

[mgk920]

Wis 29 will soon be freeway between the Brown/Shawano County Line and I-41.  The County VV interchange juist received a grant to begin construction soon.  Will also have a County U and new Pine Tree Rd overpasses. 

https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Brown-County-receives-nearly-20-million-for-29-VV-Project-502448551.html

Just like how US 41 was progressively upgraded until it was fully interstate compatible.



Also, I assume that the Outagamie County section of WI 29 will be a fully interstate compatible freeway when this upgrade is complete.

Mike

[DJ Particle]

So what do you think will be the most likely number for WI-29 once it becomes an Interstate?

I-96 (Western)?
I-98?
An odd 3di of either I-94, I-39, or I-41?

[SSOWorld]

So what do you think will be the most likely number for WI-29 once it becomes an Interstate?

I-96 (Western)?
I-98?
An odd 3di of either I-94, I-39, or I-41?

WIS-29.

[MNHighwayMan]

So what do you think will be the most likely number for WI-29 once it becomes an Interstate?

I-96 (Western)?
I-98?
An odd 3di of either I-94, I-39, or I-41?

WIS-29.

I can think of few things more annoying than the tendency to go "HURR THIS IS INTERSTATE-QUALITY FREEWAY NOW! LET'S SLAP THE RED WHITE AND BLUE ON IT!"

[SEWIGuy]

So what do you think will be the most likely number for WI-29 once it becomes an Interstate?

I-96 (Western)?
I-98?
An odd 3di of either I-94, I-39, or I-41?

WIS-29.

I can think of few things more annoying than the tendency to go "HURR THIS IS INTERSTATE-QUALITY FREEWAY NOW! LET'S SLAP THE RED WHITE AND BLUE ON IT!"

Well I think it's a good idea.  It speaks to a certain quality of highway.  I would be completely supportive of it.

[paulthemapguy]

So what do you think will be the most likely number for WI-29 once it becomes an Interstate?

I-96 (Western)?
I-98?
An odd 3di of either I-94, I-39, or I-41?

WIS-29.

I can think of few things more annoying than the tendency to go "HURR THIS IS INTERSTATE-QUALITY FREEWAY NOW! LET'S SLAP THE RED WHITE AND BLUE ON IT!"

Highways in the Interstate system get better access to federal funding.  I just want all my freeways to get the resources they deserve!  Especially when some non-Interstate freeways are much more useful than some Interstates.  I'm also a little biased toward wanting every freeway to be an Interstate since I'm from Illinois...and EVERY FREEWAY OR TOLLWAY worth a salt has an Interstate number (with a few stubby exceptions).

[MNHighwayMan]

While that's true, I'd rather see a change in the funding model than changing a well-established route number (and all the costs associated with a changeover) just because it nets a DOT more federal money.