Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

Nothing irritates me more about the road geek community than it's weird obsession with control cities. 99.9% of them are fine and get the point across.

[JoePCool14]

Nothing irritates me more about the road geek community than it's weird obsession with control cities. 99.9% of them are fine and get the point across.

It's just something to discuss. Like making freeways 3DIs. That being said...

I don't agree with the need to change most of the 41/94 control cities between the IL border and north. Caledonia and Somers are legitimate places, and since there's only a couple exits they apply to each, it's not a huge issue.

I can personally attest to one particular exit, that CTH-G Caledonia is more useful signage than 5 1/2 Mile Rd, since 5 1/2 Mile Rd ends not too far east of 41/94. If you're continuing east, you'll end up following CTH-G via STH-38 and 6 Mile Rd.

I also don't think the amount of Kenosha and Racine exits are a huge problem either. Maybe the issue is that east of 41/94, you're mostly in developed area, whereas west you're mostly in undeveloped area, so the MUTCD strongly suggests you go one way or the other with cities versus streets.

On the other hand, Waukesha has way more exits than Kenosha or Racine, so their signage should be changed to reflect street names where possible.

Let me put it this way:
If your city has one or two exits, use the city name.
If your city has four or more exits, use the street names.
If your city has three exits, use whichever works better given the area.

[Rothman]

Nothing irritates me more about the road geek community than it's weird obsession with control cities. 99.9% of them are fine and get the point across.

Yeah, most control city discussions make me reach for my revolver.

But, there's also nothing stopping them from proceeding down their useless paths.

[JoePCool14]

Nothing irritates me more about the road geek community than it's weird obsession with control cities. 99.9% of them are fine and get the point across.

Yeah, most control city discussions make me reach for my revolver.

But, there's also nothing stopping them from proceeding down their useless paths.

Then just don't participate in them. There's been many other threads here (forum-wide) about topics that I loathe, I try my best to either read and remain silent or skip entirely.

[mgk920]

A lot of them sound like townships that wanted to flex their muscles and say something like "we're not a part of THAT city (even though we really know that we should be)".

Mike

Townships like Mt Pleasant, Kronnenwetter, Plover, Weston, Caledonia, Somers, etc incorporated because of not wanting to be absorbed by another municipality.  One can argue that Foxconn was Mt. Pleasant's reason for villaging, but Weston (a section of the town) and Plover (same) wanted not to be absorbed by other municipalities (Schofield and Point/Whiting (maybe - don't know which one)) This whole village to protect shit is political (but we won't go there in this thread)

I think it would have been better in the long run to have most of these town absorbed by local municipalities rather than incorporated themselves.

eventually they will be, but likely not until after we are all long gone and forgotten.  Their development patterns and resulting lack of dolid tax base (especially low density residential and auto-centric commercial) and deferred infrastructure needs will demand it.

Mike

[GeekJedi]

The reason many of these places incorporated was due to a loophole that was around for a while that allowed unincorporated areas to incorporate and set boundaries without needing approval from adjacent villages and cities. Typically the adjoining cities would have to approve the borders - and generally don't want to because they want to be able to annex the land. With Foxconn, a lot of those new incorporated areas (Somers, Mt. Pleasant, Yorkville, et.al.) formed figuring they could take advantage of the growing tax bases in their areas.

[dvferyance]

It will be on paper. There hasn't been too much to update. Wis 23 is now expressway between Fond Du Lac and Plymouth. Other than that not much has changed from the old edition.

I'm hoping that the Madison Beltline, Wis 145 and Wis 119 in Milwaukee go back to being marked as freeways instead of 4 lane divided.

Also the interchange at Hwy 57 and Hwy 100 was removed now an at grade intersection so there is another recent change.

[invincor]

With Foxconn, a lot of those new incorporated areas (Somers, Mt. Pleasant, Yorkville, et.al.) formed figuring they could take advantage of the growing tax bases in their areas.

The clue was right there in the name.  Why did so many fall for it?   And here I used to think calling a set of robot villains Decepticons was too obvious...

[The Ghostbuster]

This is about as good of a shot of the new STH 57/STH 100 intersection as Street View allows at present: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1783474,-87.9624297,3a,75y,85.92h,80.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFRAmb1eFPwvOfeDsU9sA7A!2e0!5s20220901T000000!7i16384!8i8192.

[dvferyance]

This is about as good of a shot of the new STH 57/STH 100 intersection as Street View allows at present: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1783474,-87.9624297,3a,75y,85.92h,80.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFRAmb1eFPwvOfeDsU9sA7A!2e0!5s20220901T000000!7i16384!8i8192.

I was there last Sunday. It's now open going south on Green Bay Road but it's still has a ways to go.

[tchafe1978]

https://madison.com/news/local/madison-could-get-2-new-interstate-interchanges-in-i-39-90-94-madison-dells-project/article_9299c73e-a722-5811-80ea-4a2df5c36ab7.html?utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletter-templates%2Fnews-alert&utm_medium=PostUp&lctg=2416912&tn_email_eh1=a7186738f56ec3cf114bb1ce9e81854ec6e69e48

WISDOT is starting to study I-39/90/94 from Madison to the Dells, including the possibility of two new interchanges near Madison and adding more lanes.

[peterj920]

https://madison.com/news/local/madison-could-get-2-new-interstate-interchanges-in-i-39-90-94-madison-dells-project/article_9299c73e-a722-5811-80ea-4a2df5c36ab7.html?utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletter-templates%2Fnews-alert&utm_medium=PostUp&lctg=2416912&tn_email_eh1=a7186738f56ec3cf114bb1ce9e81854ec6e69e48

WISDOT is starting to study I-39/90/94 from Madison to the Dells, including the possibility of two new interchanges near Madison and adding more lanes.

Milwaukee St doesn't intersect with I-94 so I wonder if the street is going to turn north for a new interchange. Freeway access is badly needed in that growing area with the closest interchange at Hwy N in Cottage Grove. The other proposed interchange is at Hoepker Rd which would also need a major rebuild to accommodate even more traffic from a new interchange.

[SEWIGuy]

https://madison.com/news/local/madison-could-get-2-new-interstate-interchanges-in-i-39-90-94-madison-dells-project/article_9299c73e-a722-5811-80ea-4a2df5c36ab7.html?utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletter-templates%2Fnews-alert&utm_medium=PostUp&lctg=2416912&tn_email_eh1=a7186738f56ec3cf114bb1ce9e81854ec6e69e48

WISDOT is starting to study I-39/90/94 from Madison to the Dells, including the possibility of two new interchanges near Madison and adding more lanes.

Milwaukee St doesn't intersect with I-94 so I wonder if the street is going to turn north for a new interchange. Freeway access is badly needed in that growing area with the closest interchange at Hwy N in Cottage Grove. The other proposed interchange is at Hoepker Rd which would also need a major rebuild to accommodate even more traffic from a new interchange.

The project starts at the Beltline, so it would include Milwaukee Street's intersection with I-39/90.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

[skluth]

https://madison.com/news/local/madison-could-get-2-new-interstate-interchanges-in-i-39-90-94-madison-dells-project/article_9299c73e-a722-5811-80ea-4a2df5c36ab7.html?utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletter-templates%2Fnews-alert&utm_medium=PostUp&lctg=2416912&tn_email_eh1=a7186738f56ec3cf114bb1ce9e81854ec6e69e48

WISDOT is starting to study I-39/90/94 from Madison to the Dells, including the possibility of two new interchanges near Madison and adding more lanes.

Milwaukee St doesn't intersect with I-94 so I wonder if the street is going to turn north for a new interchange. Freeway access is badly needed in that growing area with the closest interchange at Hwy N in Cottage Grove. The other proposed interchange is at Hoepker Rd which would also need a major rebuild to accommodate even more traffic from a new interchange.

The project starts at the Beltline, so it would include Milwaukee Street's intersection with I-39/90.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

All I found is the project "could add two new interchanges near the Madison area, with one on Interstate 94 just east of the Badger interchange (interchange between I-94, I-39/90, and Wisconsin Highway 30), and the other just north of it on I-39/90/94." That wouldn't include Milwaukee St unless it involved an eastern extension of Milwaukee St to I-94 west of Gaston Rd. I assume that means Sprecher Rd and either Commercial Av or (more likely) Lien Rd. A Sprecher Rd interchange would solve the access issue without being so close to the Badger Interchange.

[The Ghostbuster]

Personally, I am happy that they are planning to remove the left-handed ramps at the Badger Interchange and moving them to the right-hand side. I don't have a strong opinion about adding an Exit 133 on Interstate 39/90/94 (Hoepker Rd.) or adding an Exit 241 on Interstate 94 (Milwaukee St.). I would prefer Alternative 2 for the US 151 interchange, since I would not support downgrading East Washington Avenue and would prefer that US 151 remain free-flow through the interchange. I would definitely support the diverging-diamond alternative for the US 51 interchange. I have no preferences for the interchanges at STH-19, CTH-V, CTH-CS, STH-33 at both Interstate 39 and at Interstate 90/94, STH-23, STH-13, or US 12/STH-16. The high-build interchange at the Interstate 39/STH-78 split seems most rational to me. As for the US 12 interchange, I would prefer the diverging-diamond interchange (I would have liked US 12 to have had freeway-to-freeway ramps to and from the south of 90/94, but that wasn't proposed).

[SEWIGuy]

https://madison.com/news/local/madison-could-get-2-new-interstate-interchanges-in-i-39-90-94-madison-dells-project/article_9299c73e-a722-5811-80ea-4a2df5c36ab7.html?utm_source=madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletter-templates%2Fnews-alert&utm_medium=PostUp&lctg=2416912&tn_email_eh1=a7186738f56ec3cf114bb1ce9e81854ec6e69e48

WISDOT is starting to study I-39/90/94 from Madison to the Dells, including the possibility of two new interchanges near Madison and adding more lanes.

Milwaukee St doesn't intersect with I-94 so I wonder if the street is going to turn north for a new interchange. Freeway access is badly needed in that growing area with the closest interchange at Hwy N in Cottage Grove. The other proposed interchange is at Hoepker Rd which would also need a major rebuild to accommodate even more traffic from a new interchange.

The project starts at the Beltline, so it would include Milwaukee Street's intersection with I-39/90.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

All I found is the project "could add two new interchanges near the Madison area, with one on Interstate 94 just east of the Badger interchange (interchange between I-94, I-39/90, and Wisconsin Highway 30), and the other just north of it on I-39/90/94." That wouldn't include Milwaukee St unless it involved an eastern extension of Milwaukee St to I-94 west of Gaston Rd. I assume that means Sprecher Rd and either Commercial Av or (more likely) Lien Rd. A Sprecher Rd interchange would solve the access issue without being so close to the Badger Interchange.

OK I guess I misread. Thanks.

[thspfc]

I read somewhere that an interchange at Cuba Valley Rd was being considered, though that might have been a while ago. I'm kinda disappointed that that's not being pursued in this project, nor is an interchange at Windsor Rd.

I'm surprised that they're choosing Hoepker over Hanson for that new interchange. Hoepker is a more significant arterial as is, but Hanson would provide immediate access off 39/90/94 to the UW hospital and the American Family complex. Plus, Hanson is already 4 lanes to the east of the freeway, so they'd only have to upgrade it to the west. An interchange at Hoepker would almost certainly necessitate upgrading Hoepker (through some of the last rural land remaining in the Burke township) between 51 and American. And, they'd probably have to upgrade Portage Rd too, since AmFam area/hospital traffic would use 39/90/94 to Hoepker to Portage to Hanson.

Also surprised that neither CTH-BB nor Buckeye Rd on the southeast side, nor Siggelkow Rd in McFarland, are being discussed.

[SEWIGuy]

Also surprised that neither CTH-BB nor Buckeye Rd on the southeast side, nor Siggelkow Rd in McFarland, are being discussed.

I just don't think there is enough room for the first two. It should have been done when the interstate went through.

[peterj920]

My favorite part of the plan is adding a much needed flyover ramp from US 151 south to I-39/I-90/I-94 south/east. That has become one of the busiest ramps in Madison and the loop ramp needs to go. I do see that the American Dr Interchange will be rebuilt to a simpler design.

This is going to be by far the most expensive project in Wisconsin History since almost 60 miles of interstate is going to be rebuilt to 8 lanes along with 3 system interchanges (The Badger, US 151, I-39/Wis 78). It's also going to have a long timeline.

[The Ghostbuster]

On the prospect of adding interchanges between US 151 and Interstate 94/STH-30, and between 94/30 and US 12/18: I saw it mentioned somewhere (I don't remember where) and the DOT's response to it was: "adding more traffic to the Interstate not desirable."

[mgk920]

On the prospect of adding interchanges between US 151 and Interstate 94/STH-30, and between 94/30 and US 12/18: I saw it mentioned somewhere (I don't remember where) and the DOT's response to it was: "adding more traffic to the Interstate not desirable."

Major future upgrades to Stoughton Rd, too?   

Mike

[JREwing78]

I personally disagree with adding any new interchanges to I-39/90(/94). US-51 has several existing connections back to I-39/90(/94) that already do the job. More interchanges just provide more opportunity for local commuting to clog up the long-distance travelers not intending to stop in Madison.

I can make a case for a Milwaukee St interchange east of the Badger interchange, as long as they can get a full mile east of the ramps for the Badger. I'd extend Milwaukee St east to tie into and replace Gaston Rd, and place the interchange to tie into where County T and TT break off. I mean, if we're going to sprawl anyway, at least make the roadways logical.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I personally disagree with adding any new interchanges to I-39/90(/94). US-51 has several existing connections back to I-39/90(/94) that already do the job. More interchanges just provide more opportunity for local commuting to clog up the long-distance travelers not intending to stop in Madison.

I agree with this. As others have mentioned here, one of the reasons the Beltline has the issues it does is too many interchanges and poor local alternatives encouraging local traffic to use it for every little trip, although there are fewer long-distance trips on that route vs. the interstate.

[Trademark]

My favorite part of the plan is adding a much needed flyover ramp from US 151 south to I-39/I-90/I-94 south/east. That has become one of the busiest ramps in Madison and the loop ramp needs to go. I do see that the American Dr Interchange will be rebuilt to a simpler design.

This is going to be by far the most expensive project in Wisconsin History since almost 60 miles of interstate is going to be rebuilt to 8 lanes along with 3 system interchanges (The Badger, US 151, I-39/Wis 78). It's also going to have a long timeline.

I agree with 6-laning 94/90 from Wisconsin Dells to Portage, but they really don't need 8 lanes all the way to Madison

[SSOWorld]

Is this going to reroute US-151 to the Beltline or be snaked onto the local roads to reach East Wash? Logically the former is more appropriate since it's essentially high-speed both northeast and southwest of Madison (of course you'll still have the SPUI and 2 traffic lights on Verona Rd)

I am curious if Wis OT considered the potential Buc-ee's at Highway V?

The Badger and the I-39 split potentially will be the 3rd and 4th four-level (or more) interchanges in WI (Marquette and Zoo) - Though the I-39 split won't be a true four level freeway-to-freeway as direction 4 is a 2-lane road.