Wisconsin notes

[The Ghostbuster]

I hate road diets. I expect increased congestion due to decreased capacity, and diversion to other area surface streets. They may call it "traffic calming", but I believe that is an oxymoron.

[GeekJedi]

This is why I hate the "trade offs". If a road makes sense to be a state highway, so be it. Dane N, Dodge A and Kenosha S come to mind.

I am ok with a few every here and there. But in the SE part of the state they just happened way too much.

Having a lot in SE Wisconsin makes sense though. It is the most populated part of the state with the largest road network, so there's bound to be more trading going on here.

There has been very little if any trading in the last several decades in NE Illinois where the Chicago area is. Also other midwest metros like Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinanti St Louis ect same thing. Very little change.

It's very possible that their mechanism is different than Wisconsin. Wisconsin is unique in that the total mileage of state highways is capped. If they add mileage in one place, they have to remove it from another. That's why it happens a lot in Wisconsin, more specifically SE Wisconsin.

[JREwing78]

College Ave in Downtown Appleton to get a road diet: https://www.wbay.com/video/2023/07/10/appleton-reconfigures-stretch-college-ave/

I hate road diets. I expect increased congestion due to decreased capacity, and diversion to other area surface streets. They may call it "traffic calming", but I believe that is an oxymoron.

In every circumstance I've seen a diet of a 4-lane undivided roadway to 3-lanes with TWLTL, it's worked as advertised, and any resulting congestion was minimal.

With one lane in each direction, traffic moves as quickly as the slowest driver. That certainly aids in "calming" traffic. The dedicted TWLTL significantly cuts rear-end collisions and allows safer, easier left turns.

Based on WisDOT traffic counts of 12,000-14,000 vpd on this section of College Ave, it's unlikely significant congestion will occur from the road diet. (A 3-lane with TWLTL is generally good for 18,000-20,000 vpd before significant congestion occurs).

Janesville is considering such a diet for a section of Memorial Ave between US-51 (Parker Dr) and Hwy 26 (Milton Ave), particularly with its proximity to an elementary school and a narrow ROW that barely fits 4 lanes as it sits now. Totally different environment from downtown Appleton, but a similar need to accommodate pedestrians and bicyclists and slow speeding motorists to more sane speeds.

[FightingIrish]

It is my experience that county highways are the most sparsely signed routes in the state of Wisconsin. Here in the Madison area, along the beltline, several county highways are not signposted on the overhead signs. These include CTH MS (Exit 251A), CTH MM (Exit 262), CTH MC (Exit 263), CTH BW (Exit 264), and formerly there was no CTH BB sign at Exit 265. I'm sure there are other intersections and interchanges elsewhere in the state that omit county highway designations.

I think this is mostly an urban thing with the BGS in Milwaukee and Madison. A lot of the Milwaukee County county highways are unsigned on the BGS but are signed on the ramps. College Ave Hwy ZZ comes to mind.

Part of it has to do with whatever government entity (city or county) administers the road. In Milwaukee County, the city of Milwaukee tends to shy away from county routes (unless they're major E-W routes (E, PP, S, M, Y), and prefer to administer most non-state/US/Interstate within their border. Notice how some county highways (like EE, N, I, U, F, etc.) tend to cease at rather unusual spots? This is happening in Waukesha as well. Waukesha tends to terminate county routes as they enter the city limits. In Sussex, VV terminates at the east city limits along Silver Spring Rd., then picks up on Main St. west of town.

Apparently, some cities, towns, villages, etc. would rather handle as much as they can within their boundaries, as opposed to dealing with the county on the primary streets within their boundaries.

[WarrenWallace]

Janesville is considering such a diet for a section of Memorial Ave between US-51 (Parker Dr) and Hwy 26 (Milton Ave), particularly with its proximity to an elementary school and a narrow ROW that barely fits 4 lanes as it sits now. Totally different environment from downtown Appleton, but a similar need to accommodate pedestrians and bicyclists and slow speeding motorists to more sane speeds.

Janesville is also looking at W Court St on the city's west side for some improvements. Four lanes down to three.
https://www.janesvillewi.gov/departments-services/public-works/engineering-division/project-information/w-court-street-highway-safety-improvement-program

[hobsini2]

It is my experience that county highways are the most sparsely signed routes in the state of Wisconsin. Here in the Madison area, along the beltline, several county highways are not signposted on the overhead signs. These include CTH MS (Exit 251A), CTH MM (Exit 262), CTH MC (Exit 263), CTH BW (Exit 264), and formerly there was no CTH BB sign at Exit 265. I'm sure there are other intersections and interchanges elsewhere in the state that omit county highway designations.

I think this is mostly an urban thing with the BGS in Milwaukee and Madison. A lot of the Milwaukee County county highways are unsigned on the BGS but are signed on the ramps. College Ave Hwy ZZ comes to mind.

Part of it has to do with whatever government entity (city or county) administers the road. In Milwaukee County, the city of Milwaukee tends to shy away from county routes (unless they're major E-W routes (E, PP, S, M, Y), and prefer to administer most non-state/US/Interstate within their border. Notice how some county highways (like EE, N, I, U, F, etc.) tend to cease at rather unusual spots? This is happening in Waukesha as well. Waukesha tends to terminate county routes as they enter the city limits. In Sussex, VV terminates at the east city limits along Silver Spring Rd., then picks up on Main St. west of town.

Apparently, some cities, towns, villages, etc. would rather handle as much as they can within their boundaries, as opposed to dealing with the county on the primary streets within their boundaries.

I get cities and towns wanting to control their streets. However, for navigation purposes, having the street maintain a county letter or state number is better for through traffic.  In my grandmother's town of Princeton, Green Lake County Hwy D, J and T all come into town. However, only D and J are signed through town. T had been signed in town but looks like it was not resigned after the reconstruction of 23 a few years ago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8513936,-89.1389589,15.03z?entry=ttu

[Big John]

City-maintained streets keep the state or US highway signed number that run through it (don't be like Indiana), so I don't understand why that is not the case for county-lettered highways.

[SEWIGuy]

City-maintained streets keep the state or US highway signed number that run through it (don't be like Indiana), so I don't understand why that is not the case for county-lettered highways.

Because I think the general thought is that state and US highways carry more regional traffic so they have a greater need for signage, while county highways are mostly locals coming to or leaving the city.

If the city finds it to be a problem, they can always sign them through town like Princeton apparently has with one of its routes. Otherwise I don't think it needs to be standardized. 

[mgk920]

College Ave in Downtown Appleton to get a road diet: https://www.wbay.com/video/2023/07/10/appleton-reconfigures-stretch-college-ave/

I will never call it a 'road diet'. It's being restriped in the downtown area, but only the city street part (between the railroad crossing at Memorial Dr/Richmond St (WI 47) and Drew St, kind of like how the city treats the street after snowstorms (plowing the snow to the center to be trucked away later), temporarily reducing the street to one lane each way.  I am aware of no traffic problems during those snow times and the left turn lanes will be a relief.  I'm taking a 'wait and see' attitude with this part, but I'm not at all sold on the bicycle lane idea.  This work reminds me of several years ago when the nearby City of Neenah restriped Green Bay Rd (long ex US 41) between the roundabouts at Cecil St and Winneconne Ave (WI 114) from four lanes undivided to two lanes with a center left turn lane and how incredibly much the traffic flow on it improved with nobody having to stop in the left lanes waiting or cars to turn left into the adjacent businesses.  This work on College Ave should be done by the weekend.

Mike

[GeekJedi]

College Ave in Downtown Appleton to get a road diet: https://www.wbay.com/video/2023/07/10/appleton-reconfigures-stretch-college-ave/

I will never call it a 'road diet'. It's being restriped in the downtown area, but only the city street part (between the railroad crossing at Memorial Dr/Richmond St (WI 47) and Drew St, kind of like how the city treats the street after snowstorms (plowing the snow to the center to be trucked away later), temporarily reducing the street to one lane each way.  I am aware of no traffic problems during those snow times and the left turn lanes will be a relief.  I'm taking a 'wait and see' attitude with this part, but I'm not at all sold on the bicycle lane idea.  This work reminds me of several years ago when the nearby City of Neenah restriped Green Bay Rd (long ex US 41) between the roundabouts at Cecil St and Winneconne Ave (WI 114) from four lanes undivided to two lanes with a center left turn lane and how incredibly much the traffic flow on it improved with nobody having to stop in the left lanes waiting or cars to turn left into the adjacent businesses.  This work on College Ave should be done by the weekend.

Mike

I was just coming to say the same thing about Green Bay Rd. My parents live over in the neighborhood NE of Green Bay and Bell St. Traffic is much better now than it was. Nobody blocking the left lane trying to make a turn, creating a backup as well as a situation where drivers are trying to cut from the left to right lanes. Now I can make a left turn into Crank Pat's without worrying about getting rear-ended!

[SEWIGuy]

Fort Atkinson did the same thing to their downtown a decade ago. It made traffic flow 100% better - much more pedestrian friendly.

[pianocello]

College Ave in Downtown Appleton to get a road diet: https://www.wbay.com/video/2023/07/10/appleton-reconfigures-stretch-college-ave/

Lot of pedestrians on that corridor during all hours of the day and into the night, so reducing it from 4 lanes to 2 is a welcome change!

[JREwing78]

Center Ave (US-51) on Janesville's south side apparently hit some snags in the 2024-2025 rebuild planned by WisDOT. From the Janesville Gazette:
https://www.gazettextra.com/news/local/center-avenue-rebuild-will-span-2024-25-construction-seasons/article_37c5bc38-21de-11ee-8be4-f3afbdd19b61.html

While the state intends to do most of the repaving on Center Avenue in 2024, the reworking of the five-way intersection at the Five Points, and work on a stretch of Center Avenue south of the river between State Street and the Center Avenue bridge, will wait until 2025.

The change in plans, the state says, is mainly tied to a lengthy regulatory process involving railroad crossings under part of Center Avenue.

The southern stretch includes a bridge that spans a Union Pacific Railroad crossing under Center Avenue just south of Delavan Drive.

That stretch of a few blocks will be given a temporary resurfacing that is a precursor to the railroad bridge section being completely torn out and replaced sometime in the next decade, project designers said Thursday at a public information session on the city's south side.

The more temporary resurfacing of that stretch, as well as the reworking and laying of new storm sewers at the Five Points intersection, are on hold in part because of an apparently cumbersome regulatory process that the DOT indicated has become bogged down within the Wisconsin Bureau of Rails and Harbors.

"Much of this process, including the timeframe for it, is outside of the hands of WisDOT and the city of Janesville,"  the DOT said this week in a memo laying out the project's timeline and other details.

[The Ghostbuster]

I assume the story is referencing these two DOT projects: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51-janesville/default.aspx and https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51intersection-janesville/default.aspx.

[JREwing78]

I assume the story is referencing these two DOT projects: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51-janesville/default.aspx and https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51intersection-janesville/default.aspx.

Correct.

[peterj920]

I see there's a ribbon cutting ceremony for Wis 50 in Kenosha. Was it truncated to Wis 31 as part of the project? It's being pitched as one of the largest urban reconstruction projects in state history.

[JREwing78]

Are you talking about this project?
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/wis50recon/default.aspx

SM-G991U

[SEWIGuy]

I see there's a ribbon cutting ceremony for Wis 50 in Kenosha. Was it truncated to Wis 31 as part of the project? It's being pitched as one of the largest urban reconstruction projects in state history.

Are you talking about this project?
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/wis50recon/default.aspx

SM-G991U

Says right on the page:

"Transferring WIS 50 to local jurisdiction between WIS 31 and WIS 32"

Probably about three miles or so?

[peterj920]

I see there's a ribbon cutting ceremony for Wis 50 in Kenosha. Was it truncated to Wis 31 as part of the project? It's being pitched as one of the largest urban reconstruction projects in state history.

Are you talking about this project?
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/wis50recon/default.aspx

SM-G991U

Says right on the page:

"Transferring WIS 50 to local jurisdiction between WIS 31 and WIS 32"

Probably about three miles or so?

Looked on street view and there are new Wis 50 signs on the newly reconstructed section at 52nd Ave. If there is as a transfer why would new signs be posted?

[SEWIGuy]

I see there's a ribbon cutting ceremony for Wis 50 in Kenosha. Was it truncated to Wis 31 as part of the project? It's being pitched as one of the largest urban reconstruction projects in state history.

Are you talking about this project?
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/wis50recon/default.aspx

SM-G991U

Says right on the page:

"Transferring WIS 50 to local jurisdiction between WIS 31 and WIS 32"

Probably about three miles or so?

Looked on street view and there are new Wis 50 signs on the newly reconstructed section at 52nd Ave. If there is as a transfer why would new signs be posted?

Maybe plans have changed because it looks like the project page hasn't been updated in awhile. Or maybe it's still to come.

[The Ghostbuster]

I don't think STH 50 will be truncated, since there are still STH 50 West signs at the Sheridan Rd./63rd St. intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5778683,-87.8215651,3a,75y,187.22h,86.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2OBvAnGYCDaeRz4DdSLNAw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu.

[JREwing78]

Looks like WisDOT was trying to get Kenosha to take over maintenance of Hwy 50 within city limits, and Kenosha refused?

Here's a newer version of the project page: https://projects.511wi.gov/wis50/

[thspfc]

I've noticed a couple "Merrimac Ferry closed when flashing"  signs, one on WI-113 in Waunakee and the other on WI-60 east of Lodi. I assume there are more scattered throughout Dane, Columbia, and Sauk counties. Are they new? I don't remember seeing them before. But in any case, they're definitely unique signs.

[Big John]

^^ I remember the one on WI 60 ten years ago.

[JREwing78]

They've been around awhile, at least on US-12. Helps save you from driving miles out of your way just to have to backtrack when you find out the ferry's shut down.