Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

I've had to cross it when the Prairie Du Chien bridge was closed. I couldn't believe they were still letting cars on it.

I find it interesting that they are going to build a replacement in the identical shape and style, without the grate deck, as you very rarely see those giant steel trusses in new construction these days.

I think they wanted it to look like the old one, but improved.

[Big John]

Thread about that bridge: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=34519.0

[gbgoose]

Construction season is coming up. Any projects in 2024 that anyone is looking forward to?

Bar none, the I-41 'big shovel' six lane upgrades between Appleton and De Pere.




Mike

Which is starting in April.  This project is sorely overdue, so it's good that we're here finally.

https://fox11online.com/news/local/i-41-expansion-from-de-pere-to-appleton-begins-next-month-brown-outagamie-county-lanes-traffic-closure-construction-road-barriers-wisconsin-travel#

[mgk920]

Construction season is coming up. Any projects in 2024 that anyone is looking forward to?

Bar none, the I-41 'big shovel' six lane upgrades between Appleton and De Pere.




Mike

Which is starting in April.  This project is sorely overdue, so it's good that we're here finally.

https://fox11online.com/news/local/i-41-expansion-from-de-pere-to-appleton-begins-next-month-brown-outagamie-county-lanes-traffic-closure-construction-road-barriers-wisconsin-travel#

Agreed.  Workday traffic on that road is continually feeling more and more like Packers gameday traffic.

Now, to restore common-carrier passenger rail service in the I-41 corridor.



Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

The replacement of the Interstate 39/90/94 bridge over the Wisconsin River starts this year, although I do not know the exact date construction will begin. Hopefully, the reconstruction of the Madison to Wisconsin Dells 39/90/94 corridor follows the replacement of the Wisconsin River Bridge.

[peterj920]

I see that there's more work on I-41 in the Fox Cities between Breezewood and Wis 15. Diamond grinding will smooth the pavement. Looking forward to the rehab since that stretch was getting rough.

[triplemultiplex]

Lotta 90's era concrete in need of maintenance around the state.

[mgk920]

WisDOT has been replacing bad squares in it every few years for a decade or two now.  Just normal overnight maintenance.

Mike

[peterj920]

Lotta 90's era concrete in need of maintenance around the state.

That's because Wisconsin built more expressways in the 1990s than any other decade. Nearly all of Wis 29 was constructed between Chippewa Falls and Green Bay, US 151 west of Madison and northeast of Columbus, Wis 54 between Plover and Wis Rapids, US 10 in Waupaca County, and US 51 between Merrill and Tomahawk to name a few projects. I wonder why in Appleton I-41/Wis 441 are undergoing a diamond grind while US 151 around Verona and Beaver Dam is being resurfaced?

[JREwing78]

My best guess is cost-effectiveness. I-41 apparently is in good enough condition to justify the grinding, where other areas have degraded to the point resurfacing is needed to restore ride quality.

Then again, I've seen WisDOT do asphalt overlays for roads that were basically fine. So maybe there's a logic to this we aren't in on.

SM-G991U

[triplemultiplex]

The thing about grinding concrete level is it can be an interim step a few years ahead of an asphalt overlay or a full depth replacement.
Also, much shorter-term lane closures so they can get it done quickly over a series of nights.  Important for a busy freeway like I-41.

[peterj920]

The thing about grinding concrete level is it can be an interim step a few years ahead of an asphalt overlay or a full depth replacement.
Also, much shorter-term lane closures so they can get it done quickly over a series of nights.  Important for a busy freeway like I-41.

WISDOT must love the concrete on I-43 in Ozaukee County because it underwent another diamond grind. In order to make it effective a dowel bar retrofit is needed between the expansion joints. Seems like that could use a resurfacing.

[mgk920]

My next question is that will the federal approval of the pending I-94 'big shovel' work in Milwaukee cause WisDOT to delay any on the I-41 upgrade work that is about to start here in the Appleton to Green Bay area.



Mike

[JoePCool14]

My best guess is cost-effectiveness. I-41 apparently is in good enough condition to justify the grinding, where other areas have degraded to the point resurfacing is needed to restore ride quality.

Then again, I've seen WisDOT do asphalt overlays for roads that were basically fine. So maybe there's a logic to this we aren't in on.

SM-G991U

My guess is they have a schedule of maintenance of that they want to follow, even if it's more proactive as opposed to reactive.

[peterj920]

My next question is that will the federal approval of the pending I-94 'big shovel' work in Milwaukee cause WisDOT to delay any on the I-41 upgrade work that is about to start here in the Appleton to Green Bay area.



Mike

I-41 won't be delayed. All the planning and design work is done. If anything delay the US 51 major project, the weakest "major" project ever undertaken since it's only a 2 lane rebuild in the Stoughton Area. It does seem like new 4 lane expansions are largely over and new major projects are going to add lanes to existing freeways.

[JREwing78]

Center Ave (US-51) in Janesville begins reconstruction on Monday between Nicolet St and W. Court St, including the "Five Points" intersection (pic from Janesville Gazette).

It's a 2-year long ground-up rebuild, including sewer, water main, signal upgrades, and bridge rehabilitation.

More info: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us51intersection-janesville/default.aspx

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe Madison St. should be cul-du-saced given its close proximity to the intersection and the railroad tracks. I doubt that will be part of the project, though.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow, seems like they should've just saved money to trench the railroad tracks.

[roadman65]

What is the shape of the Wisconsin route shield supposed to be? Or better yet where is it derived from?

[Big John]

What is the shape of the Wisconsin route shield supposed to be? Or better yet where is it derived from?

Originally a triangle, then a square was mixed in it to make the number easier to read.

[mgk920]

What is the shape of the Wisconsin route shield supposed to be? Or better yet where is it derived from?

Originally a triangle, then a square was mixed in it to make the number easier to read.

This subforum has the current shield as its avatar (black numbers).  freestanding signs have a black outlive.
Mike

Mike

[JREwing78]

Wow, seems like they should've just saved money to trench the railroad tracks.

Topography prevents that from happening. The rail tracks lead right into the WSOR depot, and have to cross the Rock River in almost every direction away from the depot.

To grade separate, they'd have to dig a giant pit or a massive overpass for the intersecting streets, which would be a real boondoggle.

SM-G991U

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow, seems like they should've just saved money to trench the railroad tracks.

Topography prevents that from happening. The rail tracks lead right into the WSOR depot, and have to cross the Rock River in almost every direction away from the depot.

To grade separate, they'd have to dig a giant pit or a massive overpass for the intersecting streets, which would be a real boondoggle.

SM-G991U

It would be expensive for sure. I was thinking of something like the Alameda project in LA. How busy is this freight line?

[JREwing78]

Wow, seems like they should've just saved money to trench the railroad tracks.

Topography prevents that from happening. The rail tracks lead right into the WSOR depot, and have to cross the Rock River in almost every direction away from the depot.

To grade separate, they'd have to dig a giant pit or a massive overpass for the intersecting streets, which would be a real boondoggle.

SM-G991U

It would be expensive for sure. I was thinking of something like the Alameda project in LA. How busy is this freight line?

Not busy enough to merit such a boondoggle. WSOR rarely blocks Court St. very long, and they're only moving through there at about 10 mph or less, so it's not an unsafe RR crossing in particular. The signals are also very responsive and are set to clear Court St vehicles before trains cross. The rest of the intersection functions normally while waiting for the train to clear. In the rare instance a train is stuck blocking the intersection, there's several spots people can cross over or under the tracks nearby.

It would be one thing if Hwy 11 was still on Court St, but the southern Janesville bypass takes the majority of the truck traffic out of the area. Other than extending the left turn lane from NBD Center Ave (US-51) to WBD Court St, and the right-turn lane from SBD Centerway (US-51) to W Court St, and adding a formal pedestrian crossing on the south side of Court St, there's not much the intersection reasonably needs.

[triplemultiplex]

Madison and the Rock River cities (Janesville, Beloit, Rockford) are 'off the beaten path' when it comes to rail traffic going northwest out of Chicago.  Most of that goes thru Milwaukee.