These days it's rare unless an existing highway (like I-85 or I-95) is being widened. The Northern beltway in Winston-Salem has a grass median. Pretty much all new freeway segments have a grass median when built. Although I-85 in Salisbury was widened and they used a grass median and not a concrete barrier.
Unless it's in mountainous areas, I can still see a concrete barrier being used for highways even when new.
The New Jersey and Florida turnpike though is a different story I guess.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 18, 2022, 12:29:41 AM
These days it's rare unless an existing highway (like I-85 or I-95) is being widened. The Northern beltway in Winston-Salem has a grass median. Pretty much all new freeway segments have a grass median when built. Although I-85 in Salisbury was widened and they used a grass median and not a concrete barrier.
Unless it's in mountainous areas, I can still see a concrete barrier being used for highways even when new.
The New Jersey and Florida turnpike though is a different story I guess.
Even the NJ Turnpike wasn't built with a concrete median barrier. It was a grassy median with/without guardrail. The paved full left shoulder with jersey barrier came about during widenings, with remaining areas getting it in the late 1980s or so.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 18, 2022, 12:39:03 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 18, 2022, 12:29:41 AM
These days it's rare unless an existing highway (like I-85 or I-95) is being widened. The Northern beltway in Winston-Salem has a grass median. Pretty much all new freeway segments have a grass median when built. Although I-85 in Salisbury was widened and they used a grass median and not a concrete barrier.
Unless it's in mountainous areas, I can still see a concrete barrier being used for highways even when new.
The New Jersey and Florida turnpike though is a different story I guess.
Even the NJ Turnpike wasn't built with a concrete median barrier. It was a grassy median with/without guardrail. The paved full left shoulder with jersey barrier came about during widenings, with remaining areas getting it in the late 1980s or so.
honestly did not know that!
I-69 in Indiana have a short 2.4 mi section between exits 87 and 98 with a concrete median. Otherwise, the rest of the route south of Bloomington is a grass median. It also has a concrete median through Bloomington, but that part was IN 37 before and you're not counting widenings/modifications of already existing highways.
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 18, 2022, 12:41:06 AM
I-69 in Indiana have a short 2.4 mi section between exits 87 and 98 with a concrete median. Otherwise, the rest of the route south of Bloomington is a grass median. It also has a concrete median through Bloomington, but that part was IN 37 before and you're not counting widenings/modifications of already existing highways.
Yeah. I just want to know if there are any new highways being built with concrete barriers.
Not many "new" multi-lane limited access highways in Illinois. There are two major ones I can think of, the I-355 south extension (I-55 to I-80) and the Elgin OHare (IL 390 from I-355 to York Road). The first was built with a barrier median down the middle for its full length, the second was built with a grass median with a cable barrier on one shoulder.
For all I know, there has been none here in this state except in mountainous areas.
Quote from: Rick Powell on January 18, 2022, 12:55:13 AM
Not many "new" multi-lane limited access highways in Illinois. There are two major ones I can think of, the I-355 south extension (I-55 to I-80) and the Elgin OHare (IL 390 from I-355 to York Road). The first was built with a barrier median down the middle for its full length, the second was built with a grass median with a cable barrier on one shoulder.
The I-70 new alignment to the Stan Span, was built with a concrete median barrier
OH-823 (Portsmouth Bypass) was built with a concrete barrier for its entire length, completed December 18, 2019 (Wikipedia).
Westside Parkway in Bakersfield, CA is one of them. Parts of it are still under construction.
I don't think it's the barrier/jersey type median the original poster is looking for, but technicallyof Longmeadow Parkway from around IL 31 to just east of the Fox River crossing in the Chicago suburbs has a concrete median. (https://goo.gl/maps/s1cNcqbH6CokWuGq7)
Doesn't most of the Missouri portion of the Bella Vista Bypass on I-49 have a concrete barrier median?
It's not new, but the Will Rogers Turnpike in OK is a fairly rare case of a rural 4 lane interstate (where land was probably cheap when it was built) being built on the narrowest footprint possible, including a concrete barrier median. Almost all rural interstates have a grass or earth median, except in mountainous areas or where they encounter a river where building directional bridges face-to-face makes economic sense.
I don't think the Will Rogers Turnpike was actually built with a concrete barrier; most of the Oklahoma turnpikes were built with a very narrow raised grass median. (Here's a stretch of the Indian Nation Turnpike (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0590257,-95.8829161,3a,75y,169.82h,82.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sylsmsx4NOoLokgQ5MIqukw!2e0!5s20180401T000000!7i13312!8i6656) with a profile typical of that era.) Later on, they tore the dirt out flush with the pavement, paved the median, and put in either a Jersey or cable barrier (work on doing that to the northern half of the Indian Nation Turnpike was going on this past summer when I clinched it).
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 18, 2022, 12:29:41 AM
These days it's rare unless an existing highway (like I-85 or I-95) is being widened. The Northern beltway in Winston-Salem has a grass median. Pretty much all new freeway segments have a grass median when built. Although I-85 in Salisbury was widened and they used a grass median and not a concrete barrier.
In North Carolina, most new freeways are built with 46-foot medians, enough room to add two twelve-foot traffic lanes plus ten-foot left shoulders and a two-foot-wide concrete barrier. They've been doing that on various projects since the eighties, as I and others delved into in this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23973.msg2370958#msg2370958). I was amazed to learn that that includes virtually all of I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington, which is highly unlikely to ever require six-laning. A case could be made, then, that virtually all new freeways in North Carolina are designed to eventually have a concrete median barrier. It's not rare at all.
One problem with that argument is that there are seemingly-similar cases, such as I-85 near Salisbury and, more recently, I-85 south of China Grove versus at Spencer, where barrier-now versus barrier-maybe-later were chosen for (to me) no obvious reason. My uneducated guess would be that, once it was decided that the once-somewhat-standard 68-foot width needed a cable rail barrier, might as well narrow the median to 46 feet and provide a slightly-more-expensive two-sided W beam guardrail instead. Or, in the China Grove vs. Spencer case, it may have had to do with construction phasing depending on the original median widths: narrow at Spencer, sixtyish south of China Grove.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 18, 2022, 12:29:41 AM
These days it's rare unless an existing highway (like I-85 or I-95) is being widened. The Northern beltway in Winston-Salem has a grass median. Pretty much all new freeway segments have a grass median when built. Although I-85 in Salisbury was widened and they used a grass median and not a concrete barrier.
Unless it's in mountainous areas, I can still see a concrete barrier being used for highways even when new.
The New Jersey and Florida turnpike though is a different story I guess.
It's a very good observation. We accept barriers as a design feature when needed...not uncommon in order to minimize right-of-way, environmental impacts, or cost. But it is not a first choice, particularly for new freeways. Grass medians are better at controlling runoff and stormwater pollutants. More importantly, barriers themselves are a hazard. I think it's often underestimated how detrimental they can be to public safety and a lot of highway designers are a little too quick to use them.
Go ahead to Google Images and search for "multi vehicle pileup". Image after image after image...what's one thing they have in common? The presence of some form of barrier. There's little doubt that most of these would be less severe if barriers were not present.
↑ Selection bias: a multi-vehicle pileup is more likely to happen near barriers because roads with higher traffic volumes tend to have barriers. Urban highways are also more likely to have barriers, and a pileup in an urban area is more likely to get significant media coverage than one in a rural area (which is less likely to have barriers).
The reconstructed US 75 that was completed about 2015 has a concrete Jersey barrier up to McKinney, but the added reconstruction farther up to Anna has an open median. The Jersey barrier returns when you cross over into Grayson County, where another reconstruction was competed in about 2004. So it seems to be a new design standard.
Keep in mind guys. I'm talking about highways built from scratch.
In Ontario, the Hwy 401 extension to the future Gordie Howe International Bridge was built recently with a concrete median as it was pushed through a tight right-of-way. And a few more around here in the 10-20 year range, again with limited space as the factor.
Another Canadian one that springs to mind is in the Vancouver area, where the South Fraser Perimeter Road (portion of BC-17) was built semi-recently in a tight space, necessitating a concrete barrier.
By and large concrete medians are vastly more expensive and less safe than wide enough grass ones, and on greenfield highways it's likely the wider swath of land would be cheaper than the median.
A portion of Maryland's Intercounty Connector (MD-200) was built with a concrete barrier; most of the road has a very narrow grass median with metal guardrails.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2022, 12:33:42 AM
↑ Selection bias: a multi-vehicle pileup is more likely to happen near barriers because roads with higher traffic volumes tend to have barriers. Urban highways are also more likely to have barriers, and a pileup in an urban area is more likely to get significant media coverage than one in a rural area (which is less likely to have barriers).
Eh, not entirely.
Pileups are most likely to occur wherever low visibility conditions occur, many of which are in rural areas that lack a heat island effect to remove fog.
Just taking a gander at the Wikipedia list, I am seeing Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, Wisconsin (and not necessarily in cities either). Clearly there is not a direct relation to traffic volume, or most of them would be in the northeast seaboard and California.
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 24, 2022, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2022, 12:33:42 AM
↑ Selection bias: a multi-vehicle pileup is more likely to happen near barriers because roads with higher traffic volumes tend to have barriers. Urban highways are also more likely to have barriers, and a pileup in an urban area is more likely to get significant media coverage than one in a rural area (which is less likely to have barriers).
Eh, not entirely.
Pileups are most likely to occur wherever low visibility conditions occur, many of which are in rural areas that lack a heat island effect to remove fog.
Just taking a gander at the Wikipedia list, I am seeing Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, Wisconsin (and not necessarily in cities either). Clearly there is not a direct relation to traffic volume, or most of them would be in the northeast seaboard and California.
They actually do occur quite frequently in the Northeast and California areas. They're just not as newsworthy because of how frequently they occur.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2022, 07:59:27 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 24, 2022, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2022, 12:33:42 AM
↑ Selection bias: a multi-vehicle pileup is more likely to happen near barriers because roads with higher traffic volumes tend to have barriers. Urban highways are also more likely to have barriers, and a pileup in an urban area is more likely to get significant media coverage than one in a rural area (which is less likely to have barriers).
Eh, not entirely.
Pileups are most likely to occur wherever low visibility conditions occur, many of which are in rural areas that lack a heat island effect to remove fog.
Just taking a gander at the Wikipedia list, I am seeing Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, Wisconsin (and not necessarily in cities either). Clearly there is not a direct relation to traffic volume, or most of them would be in the northeast seaboard and California.
They actually do occur quite frequently in the Northeast and California areas. They're just not as newsworthy because of how frequently they occur.
The list is based on # of vehicles involved, rest assured there are not frequent 100+ car pileups happening in either area that are simply being left off the list because they are woefully common.
A Wikipedia list is also subject to the selection bias of a Wikipedia editor hearing of it and giving enough of a shit to put it on the list. The number of lists that have a patron contributor checking the news every day for a new item to add to them is very low.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 24, 2022, 09:09:31 PM
A Wikipedia list is also subject to the selection bias of a Wikipedia editor hearing of it and giving enough of a shit to put it on the list. The number of lists that have a patron contributor checking the news every day for a new item to add to them is very low.
Eh, in the long run it should settle out close enough.
Anyone aware of any 100+ car accidents not on the list?
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 19, 2022, 10:46:56 PM
I don't think it's the barrier/jersey type median the original poster is looking for, but technicallyof Longmeadow Parkway from around IL 31 to just east of the Fox River crossing in the Chicago suburbs has a concrete median. (https://goo.gl/maps/s1cNcqbH6CokWuGq7)
Doesn't most of the Missouri portion of the Bella Vista Bypass on I-49 have a concrete barrier median?
The entirety of the Bella Vista Bypass in Missouri is on narrow ROW with a concrete median, except the ends where it splits to divided to cross the Arkansas border and at the entrance and exit ramps to the old endpoint at the north end where it dumped onto US-71. All of the 6-8 laned portions of I-49 in NWA now have concrete barrier median as the old grass median was excavated for drainage conduit, then filled and paved over with a concrete barrier on top.
Here's another one in IL. IL 255 from I-270 to Godfrey in the metro St. Louis area, built in sections from 1998 to 2012. Most of it is grass median, but there is a stretch from north of Vaughn Road to the IL 111 interchange that has a median barrier. Maybe 10% of the total length.
In the Seattle area, both the WA-167 and WA-509 extensions are to be concrete median barriers.
If I recall correctly, the PTC has designed the pending Mon-Fayette Expressway section north of PA 51 on a narrow footprint with a concrete median, to help keep ROW costs down. Originally it was supposed to have a wider grass median.
Speaking of the PA Turnpike, the mainline also was originally built with a grass median. The median was paved over and Jersey barriers were added some time later.
Quote from: Crown Victoria on January 26, 2022, 04:30:15 PM
If I recall correctly, the PTC has designed the pending Mon-Fayette Expressway section north of PA 51 on a narrow footprint with a concrete median, to help keep ROW costs down. Originally it was supposed to have a wider grass median.
Speaking of the PA Turnpike, the mainline also was originally built with a grass median. The median was paved over and Jersey barriers were added some time later.
And I think the jersey barriers are a 3rd generation barrier. The first was a simple guardrail. Then they used some sort of odd convex-shaped contraption device that was probably some politician's son's 5th grade science project invention that, after installing it on a few hundred miles of roadway where it was constantly beat up with pieces breaking and flaking all over the place, made them realize why they shouldn't use some politician's son's 5th grade science project invention. Then came the oversized but otherwise standard jersey barrier.
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 24, 2022, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 24, 2022, 09:09:31 PM
A Wikipedia list is also subject to the selection bias of a Wikipedia editor hearing of it and giving enough of a shit to put it on the list. The number of lists that have a patron contributor checking the news every day for a new item to add to them is very low.
Eh, in the long run it should settle out close enough.
Anyone aware of any 100+ car accidents not on the list?
"Should" doesn't necessarily mean "will". I generally believe in the Wikipedia process–hell, I have admin rights there too–but it does have its shortcomings, and completeness of lists like this is one of them.
How would one even prove whether a list like this is 100% complete?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
some sort of odd convex-shaped contraption device that was probably some politician's son's 5th grade science project invention
Are you referring to this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.741543,-76.6609119,3a,75y,318.96h,82.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJXEs0sQtFyDp6bKq9P3Adg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en)? (From I-83 just north of the MD/PA line, where a short stretch of the stuff still exists.)
Quote from: jmacswimmer on January 26, 2022, 06:37:20 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 26, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
some sort of odd convex-shaped contraption device that was probably some politician's son's 5th grade science project invention
Are you referring to this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.741543,-76.6609119,3a,75y,318.96h,82.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJXEs0sQtFyDp6bKq9P3Adg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en)? (From I-83 just north of the MD/PA line, where a short stretch of the stuff still exists.)
Yes, exactly!
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2022, 12:33:42 AM
↑ Selection bias: a multi-vehicle pileup is more likely to happen near barriers because roads with higher traffic volumes tend to have barriers. Urban highways are also more likely to have barriers, and a pileup in an urban area is more likely to get significant media coverage than one in a rural area (which is less likely to have barriers).
This isn't entirely correct. AASHTO RDG is a good source, "It is important to note that the probability or frequency of run-off-the-road crashes is not directly related to the severity of potential crashes."
Related to the OP, the point here is that barrier itself is a hazard. It is generally used judiciously when designing a new highway. The RDG further supports this, "The mere installation of barriers could lead to higher incident rates due to the proximity of the barriers to the traveled way."
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 26, 2022, 05:53:41 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 24, 2022, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 24, 2022, 09:09:31 PM
A Wikipedia list is also subject to the selection bias of a Wikipedia editor hearing of it and giving enough of a shit to put it on the list. The number of lists that have a patron contributor checking the news every day for a new item to add to them is very low.
Eh, in the long run it should settle out close enough.
Anyone aware of any 100+ car accidents not on the list?
"Should" doesn't necessarily mean "will". I generally believe in the Wikipedia process–hell, I have admin rights there too–but it does have its shortcomings, and completeness of lists like this is one of them.
How would one even prove whether a list like this is 100% complete?
I don't think its necessary to prove it complete, but if it is that incomplete it should be easy to point out a few omissions.