The curious history of plans to turn the LA River into a freeway

[Plutonic Panda]

My suggesting for building over the River stems from being very familiar with the area around Vernon. I think it could help alleviate congestion to build an elevated freeway from the 10 following the LA River to the 710 around Slauson AVE. The only issue is for this to be fully effective it would need a fully directional connection to the East LA interchange which already one of the most complex in the country. I'm not even sure how it would be done but I'm sure it could with the right amount of money.

For the right amount of money, you could establish a helicopter-based mass transit system. And that's one form of mass transit I would support if helicopters cost as much as buses.

I really think air travel should play a bigger part in megalopolis travel like those who commute from west LA to south OC or the like.

Didn't you ever watch The Jetsons?  They had traffic jams with their flying briefcase-transforming vehicles.

Later on they found induced demand was the culprit.

[DTComposer]

My suggesting for building over the River stems from being very familiar with the area around Vernon. I think it could help alleviate congestion to build an elevated freeway from the 10 following the LA River to the 710 around Slauson AVE. The only issue is for this to be fully effective it would need a fully directional connection to the East LA interchange which already one of the most complex in the country. I'm not even sure how it would be done but I'm sure it could with the right amount of money.

For the right amount of money, you could establish a helicopter-based mass transit system. And that's one form of mass transit I would support if helicopters cost as much as buses.

I really think air travel should play a bigger part in megalopolis travel like those who commute from west LA to south OC or the like.

So let's say someone lives in Lake Forest and works at ABC in Burbank. They leave their home and go to the heliport - for this example, we'll say the existing one near El Toro has been re-purposed for commuter use. A 10-minute drive, plus parking and check-in at the heliport. It's probably a 30-minute ride to Burbank, then you'd need to Uber/Lyft to the ABC building - probably 15-20 minutes. So in an ideal world, it's a one-hour commute for 50-ish miles - if it's a non-stop flight. Not bad, and better than Metrolink or driving.

But the largest military helicopters hold what, 90 people? A Metrolink train can take up to 840 people. And how much to ride? Right now a one-way flight from Long Beach to Avalon is $150. How much can economies of scale reduce that price? And you're trying to establish a full air commute system in what is already one of the busiest airspaces in the world.

I'd love someone to provide better data than my back-of-the-envelope numbers, but right now I'm looking at a system that provides all the drawbacks of trains (fixed schedules, stations, and routes; first and last mile transportation; cost per rider), adding increased safety concerns, and layering it on a infrastructure (the airspace over metro L.A.) that's already overburdened. The reality would be this is reserved for the wealthy and does little to nothing to alleviate regional traffic.

If you're living in south Orange County and working anywhere north/west of downtown L.A., you're accepting that your commute is gonna suck no matter what. Rather than assuming the commute itself is the problem and trying to make up a solution for it, assume that your choice of living and working locations is the problem and come up with a solution for that.

[kernals12]

My suggesting for building over the River stems from being very familiar with the area around Vernon. I think it could help alleviate congestion to build an elevated freeway from the 10 following the LA River to the 710 around Slauson AVE. The only issue is for this to be fully effective it would need a fully directional connection to the East LA interchange which already one of the most complex in the country. I'm not even sure how it would be done but I'm sure it could with the right amount of money.

For the right amount of money, you could establish a helicopter-based mass transit system. And that's one form of mass transit I would support if helicopters cost as much as buses.

I really think air travel should play a bigger part in megalopolis travel like those who commute from west LA to south OC or the like.

So let's say someone lives in Lake Forest and works at ABC in Burbank. They leave their home and go to the heliport - for this example, we'll say the existing one near El Toro has been re-purposed for commuter use. A 10-minute drive, plus parking and check-in at the heliport. It's probably a 30-minute ride to Burbank, then you'd need to Uber/Lyft to the ABC building - probably 15-20 minutes. So in an ideal world, it's a one-hour commute for 50-ish miles - if it's a non-stop flight. Not bad, and better than Metrolink or driving.

But the largest military helicopters hold what, 90 people? A Metrolink train can take up to 840 people. And how much to ride? Right now a one-way flight from Long Beach to Avalon is $150. How much can economies of scale reduce that price? And you're trying to establish a full air commute system in what is already one of the busiest airspaces in the world.

I'd love someone to provide better data than my back-of-the-envelope numbers, but right now I'm looking at a system that provides all the drawbacks of trains (fixed schedules, stations, and routes; first and last mile transportation; cost per rider), adding increased safety concerns, and layering it on a infrastructure (the airspace over metro L.A.) that's already overburdened. The reality would be this is reserved for the wealthy and does little to nothing to alleviate regional traffic.

If you're living in south Orange County and working anywhere north/west of downtown L.A., you're accepting that your commute is gonna suck no matter what. Rather than assuming the commute itself is the problem and trying to make up a solution for it, assume that your choice of living and working locations is the problem and come up with a solution for that.

Helicopters are currently expensive because of the lack of economies of scale. That's because people don't like them. And they don't like them because they're noisy and inefficient.

[Plutonic Panda]

DTcomposer,

I should add lots of work needs to be done to make my suggestion of shorter distance air commuting feasible. The process of boarding is but a small issue. As you suggest the bigger issues are airspace and pricing feasibility. I suspect as technology gets better, both of those things will support intercity air travel. I don't really ever see something like flying cars en masse being a thing but who knows. It's one of the reasons I think turning the Santa Monica airport into a public park is a huge mistake.

As with trains, bikes, and pedestrians being an alternative in intercity travel to cars to ease congestion instead of solely relying on widening freeways and depending on cars, in major metros like SoCal planes should be part of the mix but there are a grocery list of issues to iron out as you mentioned. It will take at minimum a decade to really become a feasible possibility.

But for most metros outside of extremely large metropolitan issues, ground transportation should work just fine as long as it becomes more balanced.