Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[silverback1065]

The single exit sign for SR 44 and 252 makes it seem like one of those two interchanges is being removed since one could serve both roads. Is that the case, or are both interchanges still in the plans?

i think it's a split diamond with connecting roads.

Thought it was a stretch with a C/D through two consecutive diamonds where there are still two exits, but you exit at once for both of them.

or that i can't remember. i do know both streets get an exit still.

[ITB]

Yesterday, I motored up from Bloomington to the Indianapolis Museum of Art at Newfields, traveling via State Road 37 to I-465 west, then 38th Street east. Smooth, pleasant trip. Travel time was a tad more than an hour and half, door to door. The amount of SR 37 traffic was moderate to heavy, which was somewhat surprising, considering it was 2:00pm-ish on a Thursday. As usual, the closer to Indianapolis, the more traffic, the more lights. North of SR 144, SR 37 is showing its age. Has the feel of a road from the 1960s, what with the narrow left shoulder and numerous uncontrolled crossings. The I-69 upgrade to three lanes in each direction beginning just south of Smith Valley Road to just south of Banta Road, and from there, four lanes in each direction to I-465, is sorely needed.

On the way back, I used SR 67 (Kentucky Ave) down to SR 39/Morton Ave in Martinsville, and from there, I-69 south to Bloomington. In Mooresville, work to rebuild the SR 67 bridges over the east fork of White Lick Creek continues. The project, expected to complete by November 30, 2020, was planned in conjunction with the upgrade of SR 37 to I-69 in Martinsville, and the impending temporary closure of SR 37 in 2021.

There is visual progress to note on the work underway both in Martinsville and on the four new overpasses crossing over SR 37 between SR 44 and SR 144, as well as the new local frontage roads. All four overpasses have now received their deck pours. Additionally, beams are now in place on the frontage road bridges over Stotts Creek and Crooked Creek. In less than a month, the forth contract for I-69, Section 6, is scheduled to be let. That contract, as many of you already know, entails upgrading SR 37 to interstate standards between Martinsville and Fairview Road in Johnson County, as well as new interchanges at SR 144 and Smith Valley Road, and interchange ramps at Henderson Ford Road.

Here's a few pictures of the paving work underway on State Road 39 in Martinsville. Photos were taken Thursday, October 22, 2020, unless otherwise noted.

State Road 39, Martinsville, Indiana

On State Road 39, just north of the SR 39/Morton Ave. intersection in Martinsville, Indiana, a paving crew was still at work at 6pm in the evening; looking north.


The State Road 39/Morton Ave. intersection in Martinsville; looking southeast. When SR 37 is temporarily closed in 2021 in Martinsville, traffic will be detoured to Morton Ave. and SR 39, over to SR 67. Northbound I-69 traffic will make a left turn onto SR 39 at the light (coming up the roadway on the left where the trucks are located), while southbound SR 67 and local Martinsville traffic will turn right.

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Closer look at the paving operation on SR 39; looking slightly northeast.


Another perspective; looking north.


Endeavoring to keep everyone safe.


Another look at the paving operation on SR 39; looking north.


Yup ... it's been a long day of work.

Enjoyed the visit to the art museum in Indianapolis. A little pricey at $18, but generally worthwhile. I browsed the "Edward Hopper and the American Hotel" exhibition, which is set to close this Sunday. Admissions are limited, so I figured I'd better get my rear end up there right quick. Returning to the topic of I-69 and the upgrade of SR 37 from Martinsville to I-465: It's exciting to watch it all unfold. Next year will be pivotal, when SR 37 will be temporarily closed in Martinsville, and work will commence on the interchanges at SR 144 and Smith Valley Road.

Edit: Minor edits for clarity and readability; corrected that I-69 will be four lanes in each direction from just south of Banta Road to I-465 in Marion County, not three lanes as originally written.

[ITB]

For those interested in closely following the construction progress of I-69, Section 6, the best source of information is INDOT's I-69 Finish Line website (link below). To get the latest information, I recommend signing up for INDOT's weekly email or text update, which is usually distributed on Mondays. The I-69 Finish Line webpage offers an easy sign-up for either option.

Link: INDOT I-69 Finish Line: https://i69finishline.com/

Also, as some of you already know, updated, high-resolution maps of Section 6 were uploaded to the I-69 Finish Line website last month. These maps depict the minor design changes that have been made since the Record of Decision. For example, the old ROD map showed a diamond interchange at Henderson Ford Road, while the updated map depicts two roundabouts, one on each side of the overpass.

The updated maps also show the I-69 mainline as four lanes in each direction from just south of Banta Road to I-465. This is a change from the earlier ROD map which depicted a "fourth" northbound lane as a collector-distributor from Southport Road to Epler Avenue, and a "fourth" southbound lane between the I-465 interchange and Southport Road also as a collector-distributor. This might be just a map modification or it may indicate a meaningful design change. To find out, we'll have to wait until the drawings are released. Of interest, too, is the amount of work that will take place between I-65 and I-70 on the southside of I-465; it's extensive, to say the least, and will involve both roadway expansion and the widening and rehabilitation of numerous bridges.

Links:Old ROD I-69/I-465 map: https://www.in.gov/indot/projects/i69/files/Map%208%20Stop%2011%20Road%20to%20I-465.pdf
         Updated I-69 Finish Line map: https://i69finishline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Contract-5.pdf

The maps take a while to completely load, so be patient. Here's the general link to the updated maps (8 total) on the I-69 Finish Line webpage:

https://i69finishline.com/maps/

Clarification: I again examined the proposed I-69/I-465 interchange on both the old ROD map and the updated map on the I-69 Finish Line website. It appears nothing of significance has changed design wise since the ROD. Without the opportunity to examine actual drawings, it's difficult to determine whether there will be four mainline lanes in each direction south of the I-69/I-465 interchange, or whether there will just be a "fourth" collector-distributor lane between Southport and Epler roads. If I-69 is three lanes in each direction north of Epler Road, that would mean the I-69/I-465 interchange would feature both one and two lane ramps. For example, the southbound ramp to I-69 south from I-465 west might be two lanes, but the ramp from I-465 east would be one lane. Thus, the two ramps would then merge to form the three-lane mainline just north of Epler Road. Now if the mainline was four lanes in each direction north of Epler and down to Southport Road, each ramp to and from I-465 would likely feature two lanes.

Edit: Minor wording changes; added Clarification paragraph.

[Revive 755]

^ The interchange design at I-465 doesn't seem to favor a particular direction being mainline I-69.  Seems odd considering how Kentucky supposedly had to somewhat favor mainline I-69 at the western I-24 interchange and Western Kentucky/Pennyrile interchange IIRC.

[silverback1065]

Even so 69 will still follow eb 465 and go around the south and east sides of Indy.

[mvak36]

^ The interchange design at I-465 doesn't seem to favor a particular direction being mainline I-69.  Seems odd considering how Kentucky supposedly had to somewhat favor mainline I-69 at the western I-24 interchange and Western Kentucky/Pennyrile interchange IIRC.

I could be wrong but I think that western I-24/I-69 interchange in Kentucky had a cloverleaf for the I-24WB to 69SB movement, so they had to re-build that interchange to get rid of the TOTSO. IMO, if they had re-built that interchange to favor mainline I-24 (and built a flyover for that 24WB to 69SB movement to replace the cloverleaf), the FHWA would have probably accepted it.

The design they have for that I-69/I-465 interchange looks fine to me. I guess it's technically still a TOTSO but if 465 is going to be 4 lanes through that interchange, I would think they would favor that (if they had to favor one) instead of 69.

[sparker]

^ The interchange design at I-465 doesn't seem to favor a particular direction being mainline I-69.  Seems odd considering how Kentucky supposedly had to somewhat favor mainline I-69 at the western I-24 interchange and Western Kentucky/Pennyrile interchange IIRC.

I could be wrong but I think that interchange in Kentucky had a cloverleaf for the I-24WB to 69SB interchange, so they had to re-build that interchange to get rid of the TOTSO. IMO, if they had re-built that interchange to favor mainline I-24 (and built a flyover for that 24WB to 69SB movement to replace the cloverleaf), the FHWA would have probably accepted it.

The design they have for that I-69/I-465 interchange looks fine to me. I guess it's technically still a TOTSO but if 465 is going to be 4 lanes through that interchange, it doesn't make sense to have to re-align those lanes when they could do it with a 2-lane (I'm guessing that's what they're doing there) flyover.

Although I-69 will require a TOTSO at I-465 (at both locations where it interchanges with the beltway), since the principal traffic pattern on I-465, as with any beltway, is all but certain to remain with through traffic rather than that exiting to I-69, there's no pressing need to provide a LH exit from CW (west) I-465 to the new I-69.  A semi-directional flyover will suffice nicely.  Tearing up I-465 simply to provide a directional ramp would be gratuitous (and a bit anal-retentive, if you ask me!).  INDOT is certainly not going to do likewise with the I-465 interchange with the existing I-69 in the NE quadrant of the bypass; no need to do so with the southern segment.  I-24/69 in KY was relatively simple to do -- I-24 already had a wide median, and constructing the single EB I-24 overhead was almost certainly a lot more cost-effective than a long RH exit flyover. 

[mvak36]

I could be wrong but I think that interchange in Kentucky had a cloverleaf for the I-24WB to 69SB interchange, so they had to re-build that interchange to get rid of the TOTSO. IMO, if they had re-built that interchange to favor mainline I-24 (and built a flyover for that 24WB to 69SB movement to replace the cloverleaf), the FHWA would have probably accepted it.

The design they have for that I-69/I-465 interchange looks fine to me. I guess it's technically still a TOTSO but if 465 is going to be 4 lanes through that interchange, it doesn't make sense to have to re-align those lanes when they could do it with a 2-lane (I'm guessing that's what they're doing there) flyover.

Although I-69 will require a TOTSO at I-465 (at both locations where it interchanges with the beltway), since the principal traffic pattern on I-465, as with any beltway, is all but certain to remain with through traffic rather than that exiting to I-69, there's no pressing need to provide a LH exit from CW (west) I-465 to the new I-69.  A semi-directional flyover will suffice nicely.  Tearing up I-465 simply to provide a directional ramp would be gratuitous (and a bit anal-retentive, if you ask me!).  INDOT is certainly not going to do likewise with the I-465 interchange with the existing I-69 in the NE quadrant of the bypass; no need to do so with the southern segment.  I-24/69 in KY was relatively simple to do -- I-24 already had a wide median, and constructing the single EB I-24 overhead was almost certainly a lot more cost-effective than a long RH exit flyover.

I agree with all your points on I-465. It doesn't make sense to have to re-align it so that I-69 is through movement. They don't do that with I-74.

As for that I-69/I-24 interchange, I completely agree with what they did there. I was just saying that if they had to (if they didn't have enough ROW, for example), they could have replaced that cloverleaf movement with a flyover.

[Revive 755]

I can see keeping I-74/I-465 as the mainline versus I-69.  It's the ramps at the south half of the Y I am wondering about.  If I-69 is going to the east half of the I-465 loop, based on what Kentucky did the NB I-69 to WB I-74/I-465 ramp should leave to the right of the NB to EB ramp.

[rte66man]

^ The interchange design at I-465 doesn't seem to favor a particular direction being mainline I-69.  Seems odd considering how Kentucky supposedly had to somewhat favor mainline I-69 at the western I-24 interchange and Western Kentucky/Pennyrile interchange IIRC.

I could be wrong but I think that western I-24/I-69 interchange in Kentucky had a cloverleaf for the I-24WB to 69SB movement, so they had to re-build that interchange to get rid of the TOTSO. IMO, if they had re-built that interchange to favor mainline I-24 (and built a flyover for that 24WB to 69SB movement to replace the cloverleaf), the FHWA would have probably accepted it.

You are correct. You can see it on an older Google Earth image from 2015. A relic of the Jackson Purchase Parkway ending there.

[Henry]

I can see keeping I-74/I-465 as the mainline versus I-69.  It's the ramps at the south half of the Y I am wondering about.  If I-69 is going to the east half of the I-465 loop, based on what Kentucky did the NB I-69 to WB I-74/I-465 ramp should leave to the right of the NB to EB ramp.

I could care less about what they do with the Y. However, if it were up to me, making the NB-WB movement go left would be my preferred choice. And although I normally hate TOTSOs, this one doesn't bother me as much, seeing that I-74 has them at both ends of its own concurrency.

[IndyAgent]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

[ilpt4u]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

Based on I-69's planned routing along I-465, does it not already connect with I-70 on the east side?

Or are you proposing a connector to the airport, something like an extention of the Reagan/Ameriplex Parkway?

[ITB]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

Based on I-69’s planned routing along I-465, does it not already connect with I-70 on the east side?

Or are you proposing a connector to the airport, something like an extention of the Reagan/Ameriplex Parkway?

That's already in the works. The project's called Decatur Direct, and it's been discussed in the forum:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=26794.0

Addendum: To hazard a guess, I think the I-70 connection wished for is for I-69 to extend north of I-465, and thence intersect with I-70.

What's drawn my focus recently is whether I-69 will have four mainline lanes in each direction between Southport Road and the I-69/I-465 interchange. The current and old maps are not clear about this, and the drawings have yet to be uploaded. If the I-69 mainline is indeed four lanes with standard ramps for Southport and Epler roads, then it's likely the I-465 ramps will each have two lanes. However, if the I-69 mainline is three lanes in each direction north of Epler, which was the plan according to the Record of Decision, the I-69 ramps to/from I-465 West likely will be only one lane. Considering the population and traffic growth over the next 30 years will that be sufficient?

Edit: Added the Addendum

[silverback1065]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

Based on I-69's planned routing along I-465, does it not already connect with I-70 on the east side?

Or are you proposing a connector to the airport, something like an extention of the Reagan/Ameriplex Parkway?

That's already in the works. The project's called Decatur Direct, and it's been discussed in the forum:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=26794.0

Addendum: To hazard a guess, I think the I-70 connection wished for is for I-69 to extend north of I-465, and thence intersect with I-70.

What's drawn my focus recently is whether I-69 will have four mainline lanes in each direction between Southport Road and the I-69/I-465 interchange. The current and old maps are not clear about this, and the drawings have yet to be uploaded. If the I-69 mainline is indeed four lanes with standard ramps for Southport and Epler roads, then it's likely the I-465 ramps will each have two lanes. However, if the I-69 mainline is three lanes in each direction north of Epler, which was the plan according to the Record of Decision, the I-69 ramps to/from I-465 West likely will be only one lane. Considering the population and traffic growth over the next 30 years will that be sufficient?

Edit: Added the Addendum

Decatur Direct is an Indy DPW job to extend Ameriplex Pkwy, I wonder how soon this will get built given the city's funds. back in the day SR 37 was supposed to be an interstate freeway grade road from harding st. and 465 up to the inner loop, it would have made the west leg of the inner loop, then ran on the north leg with 65 and shoot north up an alignment that would have tied into what is now binford blvd. this project was killed because it was impossible to build feasibly, do to those damn railroad tracks and the white river on the west side of downtown indy. side note: indy has proposed removing those tracks inside downtown indy but it's another mess in how that would work.

[edwaleni]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

Based on I-69's planned routing along I-465, does it not already connect with I-70 on the east side?

Or are you proposing a connector to the airport, something like an extention of the Reagan/Ameriplex Parkway?

INDOT has had plans for the western arterial belt for a long time. It is supposed to go north all the way to Whitestone Parkway and I-65 and to Southport Road when it crosses the White River to I-69.

It all started when Hendricks County began restricting development in the corridor east of Avon way back in the 1990's.

[silverback1065]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

Based on I-69's planned routing along I-465, does it not already connect with I-70 on the east side?

Or are you proposing a connector to the airport, something like an extention of the Reagan/Ameriplex Parkway?

INDOT has had plans for the western arterial belt for a long time. It is supposed to go north all the way to Whitestone Parkway and I-65 and to Southport Road when it crosses the White River to I-69.

It all started when Hendricks County began restricting development in the corridor east of Avon way back in the 1990's.

The west leg off the inner loop became West St. i think the piece between 65 and 70 should be a state road still. the "secret outer beltway" is all local routes and locally funded. RR Parkway will eventually tie into SR 267 somewhere in whitestown, I think it is being designed but I can't confirm this. Johnson Co messed up their portion, with it not being possible to extend Worthsville Road west to the county line. Shelby Co doesn't appear to be working on a road like this.

[NWI_Irish96]

Im looking forward to the day that I69 connects with I70 but that seems unlikely

Based on I-69's planned routing along I-465, does it not already connect with I-70 on the east side?

Or are you proposing a connector to the airport, something like an extention of the Reagan/Ameriplex Parkway?

INDOT has had plans for the western arterial belt for a long time. It is supposed to go north all the way to Whitestone Parkway and I-65 and to Southport Road when it crosses the White River to I-69.

It all started when Hendricks County began restricting development in the corridor east of Avon way back in the 1990's.

The west leg off the inner loop became West St. i think the piece between 65 and 70 should be a state road still. the "secret outer beltway" is all local routes and locally funded. RR Parkway will eventually tie into SR 267 somewhere in whitestown, I think it is being designed but I can't confirm this. Johnson Co messed up their portion, with it not being possible to extend Worthsville Road west to the county line. Shelby Co doesn't appear to be working on a road like this.

https://evogov.s3.amazonaws.com/media/30/media/31314.pdf

This is an older document from before the last sections in Hendricks county got built, but there is a map on page 10 showing the options for a northward extension. Three of the potential routes connect to I-65 at 267, and the other at Whitestown Pkwy.

[Revive 755]

Decatur Direct is an Indy DPW job to extend Ameriplex Pkwy, I wonder how soon this will get built given the city's funds. back in the day SR 37 was supposed to be an interstate freeway grade road from harding st. and 465 up to the inner loop, it would have made the west leg of the inner loop, then ran on the north leg with 65 and shoot north up an alignment that would have tied into what is now binford blvd. this project was killed because it was impossible to build feasibly, do to those damn railroad tracks and the white river on the west side of downtown indy. side note: indy has proposed removing those tracks inside downtown indy but it's another mess in how that would work.

I don't recall seeing a plan that had a connection from a downtown loop (with an unbuilt leg along West Street) to Harding Street - not saying there wasn't one - but I do recall a previous plan for Indy that had a Harding Street corridor up to I-65 from I-465 west of the IN 37 interchange on the south side.  IIRC that plan also had an east-west connector from the Harding corridor to I-65 at the MLK Street interchange and another east-west corridor from I-65 near 30th Street east to the unbuilt I-165/I-69 corridor.

[IndyAgent]

ok what I meant was for I69 to keep going north past 465 and connecting with I70 just before hitting down town

[mgk920]

ok what I meant was for I69 to keep going north past 465 and connecting with I70 just before hitting down town

That was likely a part of the original 1950s/1960s plans, but it was dropped long ago, just like with the I-69 plans on the northeast side of town.  It'll instead up follow I-465 east around town.

Mike

[Roadsguy]

ok what I meant was for I69 to keep going north past 465 and connecting with I70 just before hitting down town

That was likely a part of the original 1950s/1960s plans, but it was dropped long ago, just like with the I-69 plans on the northeast side of town.  It'll instead up follow I-465 east around town.

Mike

Wasn't I-69 south of Indianapolis a more recent development than that (making the stubs at the I-65/70 split the planned terminus of the route), or was an expressway following SR 37 into downtown from the south actually proposed at one point?

[TheStranger]

^ The interchange design at I-465 doesn't seem to favor a particular direction being mainline I-69.  Seems odd considering how Kentucky supposedly had to somewhat favor mainline I-69 at the western I-24 interchange and Western Kentucky/Pennyrile interchange IIRC.

I could be wrong but I think that western I-24/I-69 interchange in Kentucky had a cloverleaf for the I-24WB to 69SB movement, so they had to re-build that interchange to get rid of the TOTSO. IMO, if they had re-built that interchange to favor mainline I-24 (and built a flyover for that 24WB to 69SB movement to replace the cloverleaf), the FHWA would have probably accepted it.

You are correct. You can see it on an older Google Earth image from 2015. A relic of the Jackson Purchase Parkway ending there.

I recall the 24/69 interchange upgrade is what ultimately led to the closure to nearby Kentucky Lake Motor Speedway in 2015:

https://www.kfvs12.com/story/30118246/kentucky-lake-motor-speedway-closes/

[Henry]

ok what I meant was for I69 to keep going north past 465 and connecting with I70 just before hitting down town

That was likely a part of the original 1950s/1960s plans, but it was dropped long ago, just like with the I-69 plans on the northeast side of town.  It'll instead up follow I-465 east around town.

Mike

Wasn't I-69 south of Indianapolis a more recent development than that (making the stubs at the I-65/70 split the planned terminus of the route), or was an expressway following SR 37 into downtown from the south actually proposed at one point?

I-69's southern extension wasn't planned until 1998, but if the original Binford alignment had been built, then the most logical thing to do would be to continue through downtown until it met I-465 again. I wouldn't be surprised if an IN 37 expressway upgrade had been in the works to complement the northeastern proposal.

[andy]

I was in Indy this week and noticed the acquisition and demolition where I69 will be new terrain and the junction south of 465 seems to be well underway.