Indiana's Concrete Pavement

[mobilene]

Right. When I was a kid in the 70s, the city of South Bend used to "slurry seal" the streets -- a thin layer of black goo right on top of the existing street.  Voila, instant "new" pavement.  It didn't last as long as a proper layer of standard asphalt, though.

[theline]

^^ And when they are repaving in South Bend, they always mill first. If they aren't milling in your area, they should be. It's short-sighted to slap a new layer on top.

[vdeane]

Right. When I was a kid in the 70s, the city of South Bend used to "slurry seal" the streets -- a thin layer of black goo right on top of the existing street.  Voila, instant "new" pavement.  It didn't last as long as a proper layer of standard asphalt, though.

That's what the town does to my street every decade.  Each time they claim "it will last 50 years"; invariably, it will need to be replaced in one or two, but they won't get around to it.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Indiana's older/oldest grooved concrete pavements make the most annoying moan (you can't call it a whine) I've ever heard.  Anyone who knows me well, and there are a few on here who do, know I vastly prefer concrete to asphalt, but I greatly dislike Indiana's older grooved concrete pavements.

By contrast,  PA's older grooved concrete makes a rather nice high-pitched whistle.  Sadly most of what I'm talking about has been paved over or diamond grinded in the last few years.  I blame PAHotmix.

[Revive 755]

Indiana's older/oldest grooved concrete pavements make the most annoying moan (you can't call it a whine) I've ever heard.  Anyone who knows me well, and there are a few on here who do, know I vastly prefer concrete to asphalt, but I greatly dislike Indiana's older grooved concrete pavements.

Personally I liked the moaning pavement; it seemed like it had a better tone difference at different speeds.

Seems like there were one or two bridges in Illinois that had a similar moan.

For annoying pavement sound, I would nominate SB I-65 near US 30; it has a sound which I think is best described as a some combination of a groan and an off-center grinding noise.

[Mamba205]

Indiana's older/oldest grooved concrete pavements make the most annoying moan (you can't call it a whine) I've ever heard.  Anyone who knows me well, and there are a few on here who do, know I vastly prefer concrete to asphalt, but I greatly dislike Indiana's older grooved concrete pavements.

Personally I liked the moaning pavement; it seemed like it had a better tone difference at different speeds.

Seems like there were one or two bridges in Illinois that had a similar moan.

For annoying pavement sound, I would nominate SB I-65 near US 30; it has a sound which I think is best described as a some combination of a groan and an off-center grinding noise.

I love the sound, too. I started a thread about it.

The western half of I-70, from Terre Haute into Indianapolis, has at least a dozen sections of concrete that makes your tires sing. The groove pattern is in 3 inch repetitions, so your tires make a lower-pitched buzzing sound than the high-pitched shrill when the grooves are 1/2 or 3/4 inch apart. It sounds somewhat like a violin sound is coming from the tires.

Illinois almost exclusively uses the 3/4 inch grooves. However, some of the bridges on I-270, the first segment of IL 255 (Alton Bypass), and the approach to the Clark Bridge have a groove pattern that repeats at 6 inches, causing your tires to make the most eerie sound that can be described as a combination of a vocal type of sound and a continuous droning tone. It's fun to drive over the pavement at different speeds and listen to change in pitch. It becomes more of a growl the slower you go.
Post Merge: January 27, 2013, 04:01:12 PM

Indiana's older/oldest grooved concrete pavements make the most annoying moan (you can't call it a whine) I've ever heard.  Anyone who knows me well, and there are a few on here who do, know I vastly prefer concrete to asphalt, but I greatly dislike Indiana's older grooved concrete pavements.

By contrast,  PA's older grooved concrete makes a rather nice high-pitched whistle.  Sadly most of what I'm talking about has been paved over or diamond grinded in the last few years.  I blame PAHotmix.

I like all the sounds. Missouri uses the 1/2 inch groove spacing. Most states (including, I think, Pennsylvania) use the 3/4 inch spacing. Either one of those groove patterns does cause your tires to produce that nice whistling sound. It is the wider spaces that causes the deep, tonal moaning (more of a buzz, actually).

[Interstatefan78]

Indiana's older/oldest grooved concrete pavements make the most annoying moan (you can't call it a whine) I've ever heard.  Anyone who knows me well, and there are a few on here who do, know I vastly prefer concrete to asphalt, but I greatly dislike Indiana's older grooved concrete pavements.

By contrast,  PA's older grooved concrete makes a rather nice high-pitched whistle.  Sadly most of what I'm talking about has been paved over or diamond grinded in the last few years.  I blame PAHotmix.

The only roads that are left with older grooved pavement are I-78 from exit 1-10 and I-181 from exit 145 to 151, but on the Newer concrete roads that Penndot has opened within the past 10-20 years are Pa-33 from William Penn to I-78, I-81 exit 187-191 I-476 from exit 16-20, and US-22 from Irving street to Schonersville road these roads have high-pitched whistle with out the groves on the concrete itself

[seicer]

Is there a tech document about the grooving of concrete roadways - such as from a DOT?

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Texas uses 1" spacing.  Texas might be the last state still consistently using uniform transverse tine in a pitch greater than 1/2", all other states that I have been to have switched to random tine or longitudinal tine.  Granted, I haven't been out west, but I doubt anything is much different out there.

Mamba205, Illinois has switched to random tine for the most part.  Every once in awhile they use 3/4" spaced uniform, for instance, the fairly recently opened Rock Island-Milan Parkway in the Quad Cities.

I've noticed that in IL, not only is the tine random, but it's done at an angle, presumably to reduce noise.

[seicer]

Interesting. I did find this book to be interesting.

[Mamba205]

Texas uses 1" spacing.  Texas might be the last state still consistently using uniform transverse tine in a pitch greater than 1/2", all other states that I have been to have switched to random tine or longitudinal tine.  Granted, I haven't been out west, but I doubt anything is much different out there.

Mamba205, Illinois has switched to random tine for the most part.  Every once in awhile they use 3/4" spaced uniform, for instance, the fairly recently opened Rock Island-Milan Parkway in the Quad Cities.

I've noticed that in IL, not only is the tine random, but it's done at an angle, presumably to reduce noise.

I've never seen the skewed (angled) tining in Illinois. It must not be used here in Springfield and the Metro East, the areas where I reside. However, I have seen the random spacing. A good example of a properly random transverse tined pavement is Governors' Parkway in Edwardsville.

What concerns me is this; The groove spaces are randomized to prevent a discrete frequency from being produced, which we hear as a tonal sound. To achieve this toneless quality, a mathematical formula must be used to ensure the pattern is random and only repeats at intervals longer than a typical wheelbase (say 8 feet). However, the state DOT will sometimes use a random pattern that repeats over a short distance, for example, at 6 inches. Real examples of this are on I-270 in Illinois and the Buckman Bridge in Florida. Their goal was to randomize the groove pattern, but it failed, and it's easy to see why. When driving over this groove pattern, your tires make the strangest tonal sound. It fills the car interior and can be heard from a mile away. This is because the sound pressure is centered on a narrowband frequency at the lower end of human hearing frequencies, so the sound is rich in harmonics.

[Mamba205]

Interesting. I did find this book to be interesting.

See the first paragraph of page two.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/specificationsoffice/Implemented/WorkBooks/History/Jan13/Files/4000300.impl.pdf

The groove pattern listed is responsible for producing the noisiest driving surface possible. I personally like the sound, but DOTs are all for toneless, quiet pavements and this is not one of them.

[seicer]

I haven't found specifications for Ohio, but they have recently switched from transverse tine to longitudinal tine on all concrete surfaces - bridges and all.

[Mamba205]

I haven't found specifications for Ohio, but they have recently switched from transverse tine to longitudinal tine on all concrete surfaces - bridges and all.

What about saw grooving?

[Interstatefan78]

From I've seen in California was that most of the Newwer concrete pavement is mostly grooved, and examples of grooved pavement is I-5 south from LA county line down to the Costa Mesa Fwy exit, and I-405 to CA-1 Or I-110 from the 91 fwy to the 10 fwy . Perhaps Caltrans made grooved concrete pavement as standard on newer freeways within the past 10-20 years, but PennDot and NJDOT prefered ungrooved concrete pavement like I-78 from exit 51-75, and Exit 52-58  https://www.aaroads.com/california/images005/i-005_nb_exit_105b_04.jpg https://www.aaroads.com/california/images110/i-110_nb_exit_016_03t.jpg