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ICC Intercounty Connector

Started by Alex, August 27, 2009, 12:06:04 AM

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Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on February 18, 2012, 06:47:45 PM
It's been my experience that you can safely traverse a curve at 10 mph above the advisory speed, at least in any vehicle I've ever owned (which includes a Toyota Tacoma 4WD pickup and a 4WD Chevy S-10 Blazer.)
Correct, the advisory speeds are supposed to be posted 5-10 mph below design speed, and the design speed should apply to all vehicles. I've traveled Kamikaze Curve in NY at 70+ mph (not driving), but I wouldn't dare try it in my own car.


Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 18, 2012, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 18, 2012, 07:31:08 AM
Some of the curves already are posted at 50.

Those are advisory plates, not the actual speed limit, which remains 55.

Having driven the ICC many times (from I-370 to I-95 and back) recently, those curves (at least when the pavement is dry) are perfectly safe at between 55 and 60 MPH. 

Meaning that the curves should have a speed limit of 55.
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hbelkins

Quote from: Steve on February 18, 2012, 10:42:26 PM
Correct, the advisory speeds are supposed to be posted 5-10 mph below design speed, and the design speed should apply to all vehicles. I've traveled Kamikaze Curve in NY at 70+ mph (not driving), but I wouldn't dare try it in my own car.

I've only done Kamikaze Curve once. It was southbound on I-81 and it was dark and traffic wasn't moving very fast at all, so I never got a chance to see what I could do in it.

I have done the through movement on NY 17 west, and the NY 17 east to I-81 south movement as well, but those don't really count, I know.

I'd think your car should corner pretty well.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

J N Winkler

Advisory speed is really a measure of expected driver discomfort due to variables like suspension response and side friction demand.  It is not meant to be an absolute ceiling on speed and it would be inappropriate to regard it as such.

Moreover, design speed is not a comprehensive measure of the driving experience with regard to speed, for two reasons.  First, the criteria that are attached to a particular design speed have changed in time, so you can't just lift the design speed value from the title sheet of the construction plans and frame an argument about the speedworthiness of a road around it.  You need to know more about the curvature and superelevation that is actually provided, plus some higher-level information about design consistency.

Second, the design speed does not measure how much slack has been incorporated into the design.  This is an important consideration because 10 over the design speed on a road designed for 60 MPH with plenty of slack (i.e., no curves near minimum curve radius and no superelevations near maximum) may very well be much more comfortable than 70 MPH on a road designed for 70 with no slack (many curves at or near minimum curve radius with maximum superelevation).

A rough way to calculate the slack provided in a particular design is to take superelevation and radius for all the horizontal curves that are provided, calculate the speed for each curve that corresponds to a consensus skidding value (say, 0.6g), and then subtract a suitable speed value from the calculated skidding speed for each curve.  The lowest such difference will be a measure of the slack provided in the design.

The "suitable speed value" you use for this calculation should be something that is established on a reasonably consistent basis.  This can be the speed limit, but if you want to compare two roads built in different periods and account for variations in setting speed limits across different roads, then you need to use current standards to compute an imputed design speed for each road involved in the comparison that has not been designed to those standards.

These considerations aside, the impression I receive from this thread so far is not only that Maryland SR 200 has a lower design speed than the Beltway outside the Bethesda Country Club, but also that the design has far less slack.  The telltale here is the provision of curve advisory speed signs as part of the initial construction.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Duke87

I don't get all the fuss over the so-called "Kamikaze Curve" in Binghamton. There are plenty of curves on freeways in NYC which are far worse.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Beltway

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 19, 2012, 04:14:37 AM
These considerations aside, the impression I receive from this thread so far is not only that Maryland SR 200 has a lower design speed than the Beltway outside the Bethesda Country Club, but also that the design has far less slack.  The telltale here is the provision of curve advisory speed signs as part of the initial construction.

That is a good summation of my perception of MD-200.

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vdeane

Quote from: Duke87 on February 19, 2012, 02:23:57 PM
I don't get all the fuss over the so-called "Kamikaze Curve" in Binghamton. There are plenty of curves on freeways in NYC which are far worse.
I think it's the merge lanes.  The curve itself isn't bad; in fact, the DOT isn't going to be doing much of anything with the curve, mainly just changing the ramps so they don't have merge lanes on the curve.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

froggie

Governor O'Malley reported via Twitter earlier today that the final ICC contract has been signed.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: froggie on February 28, 2012, 12:49:39 PM
Governor O'Malley reported via Twitter earlier today that the final ICC contract has been signed.

Yep.  Same joint venture group that built Contract C got this business:

Maryland awards contract on last piece of ICC construction

QuoteThe contract was awarded to a joint venture of Shirley Contracting Co., Clark Construction Group, Facchina Construction Co. and Trumball Corp. The same joint venture built the 3.7-mile section of the ICC between U.S. Route 29 and I-95.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: Traffic on the ICC: Looks can be deceiving

QuoteTake a ride on the Intercounty Connector in Maryland during rush hour and drivers may wonder -- where is everybody?

QuoteAnd while the road may seem wide open, Maryland Transportation officials say current traffic volumes are right on target.

Quote"Traffic overall is consistent with projections," says Kelly Melham, deputy director of communications for the Maryland Transportation Authority. "Approximately 20,000 vehicles on average on weekdays."
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Baltimore Sun: State studies increasing speed limit on ICC - Officers have issued more than 1,200 tickets on the 16-mile toll road since November

QuoteLightly traveled and pothole-free, the newly opened Inter-County Connector is an invitation to speed, and that has become a sore spot with commuters.

QuoteA review of the toll road's speed limit is under way and preliminary results and recommendations are expected in a month, said Doug Hutchinson, the Maryland Transportation Authority's chief engineer. The study will take into account the sharpness and bank of curves, sight distances and accident history on the road, formally known as Route 200.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

NJRoadfan

There were more then 3 cruisers parked running radar on that road the morning I was on it. The amount of speed traps were ridiculous on that road.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 22, 2012, 11:47:21 PM
There were more then 3 cruisers parked running radar on that road the morning I was on it. The amount of speed traps were ridiculous on that road.

Every time I have driven Md. 200 end-to-end (which is pretty frequently), I have seen at least one MdTA Police unit either monitoring speeds or with a motorist stopped.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 23, 2012, 07:52:29 AM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 22, 2012, 11:47:21 PM
There were more then 3 cruisers parked running radar on that road the morning I was on it. The amount of speed traps were ridiculous on that road.

Every time I have driven Md. 200 end-to-end (which is pretty frequently), I have seen at least one MdTA Police unit either monitoring speeds or with a motorist stopped.

Nothing wrong with that ... otherwise you would have some jerks going 100+.

Also, visible enforcement is not a "speed trap".
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NE2

Quote from: Beltway on March 23, 2012, 08:57:32 AM
Also, visible enforcement is not a "speed trap".
Agreed. A speed trap is when the speed limit is not obvious, due to being occluded or unposted. Hence the trap. If you're told clearly what the speed limit is, it's not a trap.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Beltway on March 23, 2012, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 23, 2012, 07:52:29 AM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 22, 2012, 11:47:21 PM
There were more then 3 cruisers parked running radar on that road the morning I was on it. The amount of speed traps were ridiculous on that road.

Every time I have driven Md. 200 end-to-end (which is pretty frequently), I have seen at least one MdTA Police unit either monitoring speeds or with a motorist stopped.

Nothing wrong with that ... otherwise you would have some jerks going 100+.

I don't have a problem with strict speed limit enforcement by real police officers.

But the posted speed limit on Md. 200 could reasonably be 65 MPH (and probably be higher, though 65 is the statewide maximum), even though the road is relatively short.

I have a major problem with commuter tax revenue collection masquerading as automated speed limit enforcement (in the District of Columbia, not Maryland). 

QuoteAlso, visible enforcement is not a "speed trap".

Agreed. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Montgomery Gazette (note: does not render correctly with my (current) version of  Firefox, 11.0): Drivers still not utilizing the ICC - State official: Toll road's projected use proving accurate
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 30, 2012, 05:02:17 PM
Montgomery Gazette (note: does not render correctly with my (current) version of  Firefox, 11.0): Drivers still not utilizing the ICC - State official: Toll road's projected use proving accurate

Might want to update to FF 12 then (which was recently released). It's rendering fine in FF 13 Beta.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: Hundreds of tickets distributed along the ICC

QuoteBetter be on your best behavior when driving the Intercounty Connector in Maryland. Over 300 traffic tickets are being handed out every month along the toll road that connects Gaithersburg to Laurel, according to statistics from Maryland Transportation Authority police.

QuoteThose numbers could actually get worse. Figures show that MdTA police are also issuing about 500 warnings every month on the road.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Intercounty Connector a life-changer for motorists, residents

QuoteSince opening last year, the Intercounty Connector has provided thousands of Maryland motorists with their first direct, congestion-free drive between Montgomery and Prince George's counties.

QuoteGleeful drivers say the highway has cut up to a half-hour off their east-west trips between the busy commercial corridors of Interstates 95 and 270. But six months after the latest stretch of the ICC opened, concerns persist about the cost of such convenience – in traffic noise, pricey tolls and projects passed over in the face of the ICC's $2.56 billion construction costs.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Alps


Beltway

Quote from: Steve on June 01, 2012, 07:15:16 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 01, 2012, 03:07:07 PM
TOLLROADSnews follow-up: Washington Post reports how users just Loooove the ICC TR in Montgomery Co MD
Why not just share the Washington Post news article instead of an opinion piece?

Because the comPost publishes opinion as often as it publishes news.
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Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cpzilliacus

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