The illegal closure of the Cumberland Gap highway.

Started by bicyclehazard, November 30, 2017, 07:16:34 AM

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froggie

Quote from: bicyclehazardThe gap has significance because it was a road through a mountain pass.

And the gap has even more historical significance from a time *BEFORE* there were motor vehicles.

QuoteMy main objection to this type of road blockage is the surprise factor. You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.

Those Cumberland Gap Tunnel prohibitions are well-signed, including along I-75 and I-81, which gives longer distance travelers PLENTY of time to find an alternative route without having to backtrack.


jeffandnicole

Quote from: bicyclehazard on December 01, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.

The diversion isn't there.  You just wasted several hours of your valuable weekend because you don't know what you're doing (if, in fact, you actually did do this and just didn't make up your story).

Per the National Park Service website, https://www.nps.gov/cuga/planyourvisit/trafficandtraveltips.htm :

QuoteCumberland Gap Tunnel
The Cumberland Gap Tunnel is approximately .9 mile and is located within the park on Highway 25E. Recreational vehicles, camp trailers, and campers are permitted although LP gas should be turned off before going through the tunnel.

Beltway

Quote from: froggie on December 01, 2017, 10:49:08 AM
Quote from: bicyclehazardThe gap has significance because it was a road through a mountain pass
My main objection to this type of road blockage is the surprise factor. You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.
Those Cumberland Gap Tunnel prohibitions are well-signed, including along I-75 and I-81, which gives longer distance travelers PLENTY of time to find an alternative route without having to backtrack.

This appears to be the official website, and I don't see any details about HAZMAT restrictions.
http://www.cgtunnel.com/
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

roadman

Quote from: froggie on December 01, 2017, 10:49:08 AM
Quote from: bicyclehazardThe gap has significance because it was a road through a mountain pass.

And the gap has even more historical significance from a time *BEFORE* there were motor vehicles.

QuoteMy main objection to this type of road blockage is the surprise factor. You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.

Those Cumberland Gap Tunnel prohibitions are well-signed, including along I-75 and I-81, which gives longer distance travelers PLENTY of time to find an alternative route without having to backtrack.
I looked up images of those signs on Google.  According to the signs, the only hazardous materials that are expressly prohibited through the tunnel are Class 1 Explosives (or is it Class 1 AND Explosives - the sign is unclear on that).  Class 2 through Class 9 can use the tunnel with an escort.  Of course, given that hazardous materials are identified by placards and UN numbers, I suspect the majority of truckers and other drivers with hazmat (like the guy working for the Forest Service with the propane tank) have no clue as to what the actual 'class' their material falls under is.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

inkyatari

I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.

hbelkins

Quote from: froggie on December 01, 2017, 10:49:08 AM

Those Cumberland Gap Tunnel prohibitions are well-signed, including along I-75 and I-81, which gives longer distance travelers PLENTY of time to find an alternative route without having to backtrack.

Some of the signs are poorly-placed. Often, they come AFTER the point at which you should detour. For instance, the signs on US 58 westbound don't start showing up until after you've passed the intersection where US 421 northbound departs for Pennington Gap and Harlan. If you're hauling a prohibited material westbound on US 58 and want to cross into Kentucky to continue north on 25E, you're going to want to take US 421 to US 119.

This has bugged me since the signs were erected.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Mapmikey

Quote from: bicyclehazard on December 01, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
The gap has significance because it was a road through a mountain pass. My main objection to this type of road blockage is the surprise factor. You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.   

Nope.

Only Class 1 materials are prohibited in this tunnel.  Class 2 through 9 can be escorted through.

Even if propane were prohibited, they have warning signs pretty far away that this would be the case:

I-40 WB at I-81:  https://goo.gl/maps/wWtgBatzRXm
I-81 at US 25E: https://goo.gl/maps/vXJg1WL2F512
I-75 SB at US 25E: https://goo.gl/maps/wWF7HeYzU972

SectorZ

Quote from: inkyatari on December 01, 2017, 12:50:34 PM
He's giving us bicyclists a bad name.

So true. To some extent he has occasionally valid points buried in a mountain of pure rage, but anyone who already dislikes cyclists on this forum aren't liking them any more due to him.

seicer

And as an avid cyclist (former professional road racing cyclist), this %%%% drives me absolutely crazy. He can't be bothered to do any research; complains to the wrong authorities; recycles old talking points on various forums...

roadman

Quote from: Mapmikey on December 01, 2017, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: bicyclehazard on December 01, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
The gap has significance because it was a road through a mountain pass. My main objection to this type of road blockage is the surprise factor. You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.   

Nope.

Only Class 1 materials are prohibited in this tunnel.  Class 2 through 9 can be escorted through.

Even if propane were prohibited, they have warning signs pretty far away that this would be the case:

I-40 WB at I-81:  https://goo.gl/maps/wWtgBatzRXm
I-81 at US 25E: https://goo.gl/maps/vXJg1WL2F512
I-75 SB at US 25E: https://goo.gl/maps/wWF7HeYzU972
As I mentioned above, how many drivers carrying hazmat can immediately identify their cargoes by class number?  IMO, that's the biggest FAIL of these signs.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: seicer on December 01, 2017, 02:59:23 PM
And as an avid cyclist (former professional road racing cyclist), this %%%% drives me absolutely crazy. He can't be bothered to do any research; complains to the wrong authorities; recycles old talking points on various forums...

In his defense, he does do the research. I just don't think he interprets the results correctly...

kphoger

Quote from: roadman on December 01, 2017, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 01, 2017, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: bicyclehazard on December 01, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
The gap has significance because it was a road through a mountain pass. My main objection to this type of road blockage is the surprise factor. You are on vacation or heading for a job site like I did when planting trees for the forest service only to be turned back for carrying a propane tank. I know these are prohibited in some tunnels. So you have wasted several hours of your valuable weekend going around a diversion that need not be there.   

Nope.

Only Class 1 materials are prohibited in this tunnel.  Class 2 through 9 can be escorted through.

Even if propane were prohibited, they have warning signs pretty far away that this would be the case:

I-40 WB at I-81:  https://goo.gl/maps/wWtgBatzRXm
I-81 at US 25E: https://goo.gl/maps/vXJg1WL2F512
I-75 SB at US 25E: https://goo.gl/maps/wWF7HeYzU972
As I mentioned above, how many drivers carrying hazmat can immediately identify their cargoes by class number?  IMO, that's the biggest FAIL of these signs.

Those with hazmat certification.

But I were just Joe Schmoe driving a couple of propane bottles in the back of a van–even though I don't know what class of cargo it is, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to get turned away.  There are obviously restrictions in place, even if I'm unsure which side of the line I'm on.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

(Of course, I used to drive a delivery route that included chemicals, and I had no idea whether my cargo counted as hazmat at all.  I was driving a 55-gallon drum of degreaser on the Interstate every so often and I didn't even have a CDL (not required on that size of box truck).  It's my suspicion that might not have been OK.)
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kphoger on December 01, 2017, 03:06:04 PM
Those with hazmat certification.

But I were just Joe Schmoe driving a couple of propane bottles in the back of a van–even though I don't know what class of cargo it is, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to get turned away.  There are obviously restrictions in place, even if I'm unsure which side of the line I'm on.

Who would turn you away?  I don't think I've ever seen a regular vehicle undergo an inspection near a tunnel.

Usually Hazmat restrictions are for those carrying something in bulk, ie: a truck.

Quote from: kphoger on December 01, 2017, 03:09:13 PM
(Of course, I used to drive a delivery route that included chemicals, and I had no idea whether my cargo counted as hazmat at all.  I was driving a 55-gallon drum of degreaser on the Interstate every so often and I didn't even have a CDL (not required on that size of box truck).  It's my suspicion that might not have been OK.)

Glancing around the web, I came upon this training manual.  It appears a CDL isn't required, and a single drum didn't need a placard on the outside of a vehicle because it was below the minimum weight threshold (See PDF Page 108).  I couldn't exactly figure out if these were their company standards or federal standards.  https://www.ercweb.com/zep/Hazmat_branch_Notes.pdf

kkt

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 01, 2017, 03:27:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 01, 2017, 03:06:04 PM
Those with hazmat certification.

But I were just Joe Schmoe driving a couple of propane bottles in the back of a van–even though I don't know what class of cargo it is, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to get turned away.  There are obviously restrictions in place, even if I'm unsure which side of the line I'm on.

Who would turn you away?  I don't think I've ever seen a regular vehicle undergo an inspection near a tunnel.

Right.  As is so often the case, the restriction doesn't exist to prevent hazmats from being carried through the tunnel.  The restrictions exist so the driver's insurance company can shift the liability to the driver if a disaster occurs.



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