Driving from Panama to Columbia

[US 41]

Is there anyway to get from Panama to Columbia by car. Does it require taking a ferry. Also will you ever be able to drive from North America to South America without having to take a ferry (if there is one)?

[corco]

Nope, and probably not. That's some very dense, fairly mountainous rainforest that is controlled by cartels- so maybe one day? But I wouldn't bet on it in our lifetimes.

There's no formal ferry service but there are shippers that will take you and your car around.

Supposedly people have cleared the Darien Gap on a dirt bike, but that doesn't seem fun.

[Alps]

I've heard various intimations toward closing the Gap, but nothing has made it very far to this point. You can certainly get across the Panama Canal, so depending on where you define the beginning of South America (most people define it as the Colombia border, though)...

[vdeane]

Get a vehicle that can go off road and don't get eaten by the insects.

[J N Winkler]

I have been hearing of Darien Gap closure plans going back to the 1930's, so no, I don't think this is something we will see happen in our lifetimes, or that our grandchildren will see happen in theirs.

There is a lot of Web scuttlebutt about Colón-Cartagena ferry services but I don't get the impression that people's cars make the intercontinental crossing unless they are packed into shipping containers.

Also, it isn't as if the going gets that much easier once you are in South America.  It is surprisingly hard to get from Colombia to Brazil or Venezuela by road, for example, even though it borders both countries.  Getting to Chile from Colombia means going through Peru, which has no StreetView at present (as far as I can tell) but where nearly all of the main roads appear to be narrow and squiggly.

[US 41]

I heard used shipped cars aren't allowed in Columbia. I don't know if that is true or not. A ferry would be nice. If a ferry ever opens I would like to drive from Alaska to the southern tip of Chile. I might drive to Panama one day just for the heck of it. Do central american countries require different car insurance's such as in Mexico where only Mexican plans are allowed? Or do Central American countries work together, like the US and Canada?

[Grzrd]

If a ferry ever opens I would like to drive from Alaska to the southern tip of Chile.

You might enjoy the discussion from this prior thread:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5122.msg112048#msg112048

They flew their car over the Gap:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5122.msg114098#msg114098

[US 41]

If I ever win the lottery I will build a 2 lane toll road through the Darien Gap. 

[agentsteel53]

nearly all of the main roads appear to be narrow and squiggly.

Peru appears to have a fairly modern route system that is less squiggly the closer one is to the coast. 

here is an ongoing motorcycle trip report of a guy who spends northern summers working in Nebraska, and southern summers riding around central and south America. 

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831076

around page 220, it is Christmas 2013 and he is in Colombia, setting off for Ecuador, Peru, and Chile.  there are plenty of photos of roads and the primary ones in each of those countries appear consistently well-developed.  other pages feature central America and the crossing of the Darien (he paid a cargo ship to haul him and his bike).  if anyone is seriously contemplating the trip, it may be helpful to get in touch with him on that forum... I've been chatting with him occasionally and he is quite responsive.

for something more first-hand: I will be in Peru (and in Bolivia) in 2015 to give further reports.  but I am flying, so my crossing of the Darien will be several hundred miles to the west, at 37000 feet.

[mgk920]

IIRC, the total distance between good roads on either side of the 'Gap' is only about 50 km - about the same as the distance between downtown Appleton, WI and downtown Green Bay, WI.

OTOH, there would still be a daunting journey to get from Colombia to the population hearts of Brazil, Argentina and so forth due to a lack of other through roads in northern South America, including no fixed crossing of the Amazon River.

Mike

[US 41]

Chile's Rte. 5 seems to be a really nice highway. It's a freeway throughout most of the country.

[agentsteel53]

Chile's Rte. 5 seems to be a really nice highway. It's a freeway throughout most of the country.

yep, Chile needs only one interstate-quality x5 route, given its general shape.

(I actually do wonder how they came up with 5, as opposed to 1 or something.)

[Chris]

Colombia has no land border crossings for through traffic with 3 of its 5 neighboring countries (Panama, Brazil and Peru). There aren't even many border crossings with Ecuador and Venezuela.

Colombia is currently upgrading its road network, but the extremely rugged terrain prevents real freeways, though they have built about 400 miles of divided highways. Most main roads are tolled.  Nearly all major roads are in the Andes or the Caribbean region, there are almost no roads down the Pacific Coast and few roads in the flatter east (which is not all jungle, but mostly a savanna called Los Llanos).

Ecuador on the other hand dramatically improved its road network in the past 15 years through toll funding.

[J N Winkler]

Colombia has no land border crossings for through traffic with 3 of its 5 neighboring countries (Panama, Brazil and Peru). There aren't even many border crossings with Ecuador and Venezuela.

Casual inspection in Google Maps shows some StreetView in Colombia but none in Venezuela, and quite a few roads on the Colombian side which appear to join with others on the Venezuelan side but with no apparent crossing facilities.  This leads me to believe that the border between Colombia and Venezuela is all but closed, and that cross-border roads which might otherwise be opened to the public as minor crossings are barricaded, possibly with trenches and concrete walls.

[agentsteel53]

the border between Colombia and Venezuela is all but closed, and that cross-border roads which might otherwise be opened to the public as minor crossings are barricaded, possibly with trenches and concrete walls.

de facto, yes, due to Venezuelan political instability.  I don't remember if John Downs (motorcyclist referenced several threads up) made it to Venezuela; I do remember him noting that there were border closures.

[agentsteel53]

Ecuador on the other hand dramatically improved its road network in the past 15 years through toll funding.
[map]

I wonder what that last bit of red road means.  it appears to be mountainous, but not relatively unusually so at a casual glance of Google's satellite imagery.  maybe it's just "the last red segment" simply because there has to be one, by definition, and soon after 2011 it was made into the same standard as elsewhere in Ecuador?

[Brandon]

the border between Colombia and Venezuela is all but closed, and that cross-border roads which might otherwise be opened to the public as minor crossings are barricaded, possibly with trenches and concrete walls.

de facto, yes, due to Venezuelan political instability.  I don't remember if John Downs (motorcyclist referenced several threads up) made it to Venezuela; I do remember him noting that there were border closures.

Judging from Google Street View, they appear to have been open when they went near the border.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=7.817849,-72.452152&spn=0.003067,0.005284&t=h&z=18

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=7.818699,-72.45352&spn=0.003066,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=7.81888,-72.45378&panoid=HS2VZxOUJ5ArFEJezDLW3A&cbp=12,167.67,,0,12.24

[US 41]

I just read that Colombia is going to spend 609 million on a 2 lane road that will basically just end at the Panama border. Then one day when Panama decides to build it (which I'm sure they will want to one day) they can just connect to Colombia's new highway. I think Colombia is smart for building it, because one day if Panama decides they want to build it things could be different in Colombia and Colombia may not want it. Exciting news for the Pan American Highway.

Here's the article below---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://primapanama.blogs.com/_panama_residential_devel/infrastructure/

Should a road be built to connect Panama and Colombia?



The Darien Gap is so named because it is an area within the Darien jungle of Panama where the road has not been completed connecting the two countries of Colombia and Panama. It is only a gap of 80 kilometers, but it may as well be a million miles as there is no way to drive any further south than Panama. There have always been rumblings of a plan to complete a highway and I believe if it were not for the Farc rebels and civil war in Colombia, there would be an eagerness to complete the road linking the two countries. At this time Colombia's old and new president are harping on Panama to complete the road as the government of Colombia is investing over $600 million into a road that will basically dead end at the Colombian border. If Panama keeps it word to keep the gap as it is, Colombia will have built a road to nowhere. Here is more details on this controversial road from La Prensa.
The last 80 kilometers of a controversial road.

The construction of the 'Cross of the Americas' affect Darien National Parks and Katie.
Jose Arcia
jarcia@prensa.com
The possibility of joining the north and the center in South America, through the Darien Gap, was this week a new episode.



On Thursday, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, awarded the construction and rehabilitation of the first section of a highway in 3000 will be 47 miles from Venezuela to the Colombian-Panamanian border, in Palos de Letras.



The work, called "Cross of the Americas", provides in its first phase construction of 198 new miles of road, including the stretch of Monteria to Palos de Letras, in the border region with Panama (in red in the graphics).



The Panamanian side reach the Panamerican Highway to the town of Yaviza in the province of Darien, so there is a stretch of 80 kilometers in which there is no road infrastructure to link Central and South America.



investment in conflict



The Colombian Government's proposal is rejected by conservation groups in that country.



Organizations of indigenous and black communities of Choco, in Colombia, have expressed their rejection of the work, given that crosses the Katios Park, declared a World Heritage site, reported last Friday the Colombian newspaper El Heraldo.



Alvaro Uribe left office yesterday when Juan Manuel Santos took over the reins of the neighboring country. Both have publicly stated their desire to Panama to build the last stretch of road that would cross the Darien Gap.



Santos, in his visit to Panama in the middle of last July as president-elect, not only reiterated this desire, but with Panamanian businessmen lobbied to open the protected area.



The cap will remain



For the moment, the Colombian-road project in which the Government of the South American country would invest $ 609 million, is like a street "dead end", given that the Panamanian authorities say the opening of the Darien Gap is not into the State agenda.



Alfredo Prieto, Minister of Communication of the Presidency of Panama, said the government has no agenda to build a road through the Darien Gap. "There is nothing even to do a trail," he said.



Prieto said the Colombian authorities' decision is final, but that does not mean that the Panamanian government has plans to build a road through the jungle.



The president, Ricardo Martinelli has reiterated the Government's position not to bow to pressure the Colombian authorities on the subject.



The Minister of the Presidency, Jimmy Demetrius Papadimitriu, referred yesterday to the subject, and assured that the cap will not open.



Javier Arias, manager of the National Environmental Authority, also commented on the matter this week. He said the Darien Gap will remain as is and is not open.



An old proposal



The truth is that the idea of building a road linking Panama and Colombia dates back to 1950, when the United States and several countries of the hemisphere agreed to build a road network in the area.



Plans for the road rested with the Ministry of Public Works. This was reported in 2004 officials of the entity, but at that time unaccounted for planes. They suspected they had been lost during the invasion of Panama in 1989.

[US 41]

Another article about the Colombian project.
http://www.thepanamadigest.com/2010/08/again-panama-says-highway-will-not-bridge-darien-gap/

   It states that Panama will not build the remaining section. I'm sure at some point Panama will change its mind and build the road. When Colombia gets done building their dead end road to the Panamanian border there will be about a 35 mile gap in the Pan American Highway. Apparently the road is going to be built all the way across northern Colombia and go to Venezuela too. The road will cost 609 million USD (141,144,200,000 Colombian Pesos).
   I don't see why Panama is so against the idea. I know it may cause harm to the jungle, but the United States has already agreed to paying a third of the construction costs (in Panama and Colombia).  (The US also pays one third of all construction costs on the Pan American highway in Central America. The US actually built the highway through C. America during WWII.) Personally I don't think the US should pay for any of it, but that's a different story. If the highway was built Panama, as well as Colombia would benefit economically. Especially Panama, who also has a canal we built.
   Being able to get to Colombia without paying $250 (+1000 if you want to take your car) would be very helpful to many. Panama could make the new highway a toll road to help cover their costs.

[Avalanchez71]

Another article about the Colombian project.
http://www.thepanamadigest.com/2010/08/again-panama-says-highway-will-not-bridge-darien-gap/

   It states that Panama will not build the remaining section. I'm sure at some point Panama will change its mind and build the road. When Colombia gets done building their dead end road to the Panamanian border there will be about a 35 mile gap in the Pan American Highway. Apparently the road is going to be built all the way across northern Colombia and go to Venezuela too. The road will cost 609 million USD (141,144,200,000 Colombian Pesos).
   I don't see why Panama is so against the idea. I know it may cause harm to the jungle, but the United States has already agreed to paying a third of the construction costs (in Panama and Colombia).  (The US also pays one third of all construction costs on the Pan American highway in Central America. The US actually built the highway through C. America during WWII.) Personally I don't think the US should pay for any of it, but that's a different story. If the highway was built Panama, as well as Colombia would benefit economically. Especially Panama, who also has a canal we built.
   Being able to get to Colombia without paying $250 (+1000 if you want to take your car) would be very helpful to many. Panama could make the new highway a toll road to help cover their costs.

Two reasons:
1.  Keeps the cartels out of Panama.
2.  It makes it more difficult for Columbia to invade Panama.

[vdeane]

There's also a bit of bad blood resulting from the fact that Panama used to be a part of Columbia.

[US 41]

   

Two reasons:
1.  Keeps the cartels out of Panama.
2.  It makes it more difficult for Columbia to invade Panama.

Equador and Venezuela don't seem too concerned about invasion and the cartels are already in Panama anyways.

[vdeane]

Ecuador and Venezuela didn't become independent countries solely due to Teddy Roosevelt's desire to build a canal.

[US 41]

Colombia will not invade Panama, because Panama is our ally. Colombia is also our ally, but Panama is probably a closer ally (especially because of the canal). Colombia doesn't want to make the US their enemy. Colombia is over wanting Panama. We paid Colombia off when TR was our president too.