NYC Roads

[1995hoo]

....
Also: what about those who live in the congestion zone? Will they have to pay to drive into the neighborhood where they live?

From what I've read, they would charge the fee, but if the household earns $60,000 or less per year, the fees paid will be refunded at income tax time via a tax credit.

[LilianaUwU]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

[Plutonic Panda]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

Ah my bad I thought you were saying my comment was cringe.

[roadman65]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

Ah my bad I thought you were saying my comment was cringe.

Well NY has other cities like Buffalo and Rochester help finance the busses and the subways on the other end of the state as its NY State that subsidizes the city's transit and not the city. So every taxpayer in NYS funds the failing transit system.

[Plutonic Panda]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

Ah my bad I thought you were saying my comment was cringe.

Well NY has other cities like Buffalo and Rochester help finance the busses and the subways on the other end of the state as its NY State that subsidizes the city's transit and not the city. So every taxpayer in NYS funds the failing transit system.

There's no shortage of rich people in New York City. Tell them to pony up the money or start shutting lines down. I'm sure a solution other than taxing the bejeezus out of every car that enters the city on a street can be found.

[roadman65]

New York City has the highest real estate tax in the world, but to hypothesize on how to get that into the MTA will open a can of worms as that's been the age old debate between the Hatfields and the McCoys who blame the other party for the money diversions.

[SidS1045]

There's no shortage of rich people in New York City. Tell them to pony up the money or start shutting lines down.

Only one problem with that solution:  Rich people don't take the subway or bus.  They can afford the congestion charge, whatever it turns out to be, and they couldn't care less if subway or bus routes are eliminated, even if those trips in their Lincoln Town Cars are longer than before.

I'm sure a solution other than taxing the bejeezus out of every car that enters the city on a street can be found.

If you've got one, we're all ears...er, eyes.

[SidS1045]

New York City has the highest real estate tax in the world...

Maybe in actual dollars, but as a percentage of assessed value: not even close.  NYC's real estate tax averages 0.98%.  The US national average is 1.07%.  As for the rest of the world, Belgium's is the highest...11.3%.

[roadman65]

https://nypost.com/2023/07/22/staten-island-eyes-joining-new-jersey-in-legal-fight-to-block-congestion-pricing/

[SignBridge]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

Ah my bad I thought you were saying my comment was cringe.

Well NY has other cities like Buffalo and Rochester help finance the busses and the subways on the other end of the state as its NY State that subsidizes the city's transit and not the city. So every taxpayer in NYS funds the failing transit system.

Roadman65, why do you say the failing transit system? It seemed quite functional to me the last time I rode it a few weeks ago.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

First gantry: West End Ave heading south from 61st St. There's gonna have to be a gantry on every single avenue at 61st... and what the HECK are they gonna do south of there with all the interchanges along FDR and all the side streets along West St?

The Final EA for the program, Chapter 2, has detailed diagrams showing where all the tolling equipment is going to be located.

[Alps]

....
Also: what about those who live in the congestion zone? Will they have to pay to drive into the neighborhood where they live?

From what I've read, they would charge the fee, but if the household earns $60,000 or less per year, the fees paid will be refunded at income tax time via a tax credit.

How many people live in the congestion zone and earn less than $60k? That's not livable in NYC.

[roadman65]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

Ah my bad I thought you were saying my comment was cringe.

Well NY has other cities like Buffalo and Rochester help finance the busses and the subways on the other end of the state as its NY State that subsidizes the city's transit and not the city. So every taxpayer in NYS funds the failing transit system.

Roadman65, why do you say the failing transit system? It seemed quite functional to me the last time I rode it a few weeks ago.

Perhaps failing is wrong word to use as it indicates in terms of service and maintenance. I mean financially failing as the fares can't support itself and the city can't subsidize it so the entire state flips the balance to keep it running.

[Rothman]

Cringe.

Care to elaborate?

I mean, it's pretty simple: taking the money from people who drive to send it to mass transit is cringe.

Ah my bad I thought you were saying my comment was cringe.

Well NY has other cities like Buffalo and Rochester help finance the busses and the subways on the other end of the state as its NY State that subsidizes the city's transit and not the city. So every taxpayer in NYS funds the failing transit system.

Roadman65, why do you say the failing transit system? It seemed quite functional to me the last time I rode it a few weeks ago.

Perhaps failing is wrong word to use as it indicates in terms of service and maintenance. I mean financially failing as the fares can't support itself and the city can't subsidize it so the entire state flips the balance to keep it running.

What transportation system (transit, rail, highway...) in the U.S.A. operates without any sort of public subsidy?

[vdeane]

First gantry: West End Ave heading south from 61st St. There's gonna have to be a gantry on every single avenue at 61st... and what the HECK are they gonna do south of there with all the interchanges along FDR and all the side streets along West St?

The Final EA for the program, Chapter 2, has detailed diagrams showing where all the tolling equipment is going to be located.

That doesn't seem to be nearly as many tolling points as one would think.  Are they no longer exempting West Street and FDR Drive from the tolling like they said?  Or are they creating a loophole where if someone directly enters one of those roads, but then exits in the tolled area, they don't have to pay?

[Alps]

First gantry: West End Ave heading south from 61st St. There's gonna have to be a gantry on every single avenue at 61st... and what the HECK are they gonna do south of there with all the interchanges along FDR and all the side streets along West St?

The Final EA for the program, Chapter 2, has detailed diagrams showing where all the tolling equipment is going to be located.

That doesn't seem to be nearly as many tolling points as one would think.  Are they no longer exempting West Street and FDR Drive from the tolling like they said?  Or are they creating a loophole where if someone directly enters one of those roads, but then exits in the tolled area, they don't have to pay?

I mean, it makes sense to toll it at those relatively fewer points, but then I don't know how they are going to arrange a toll-free routing. Because you can't really put a time limit - traffic in NYC could easily back you up an hour trying to go around if everyone else is going around, and you're "not allowed to leave the outer roadways". This strikes me that they've given up and just will toll everyone.

I'll be the guy driving the wrong way on a one-way for a block...

[Duke87]

I'm puzzled why there seem to be cameras over both halves of the divided roadway. I assumed drivers would only have to pay the toll when entering the congestion zone. Will they actually be tolled when leaving the area too?

The idea is you get assessed the congestion fee for every calendar day you operate a vehicle in the designated area. The gantry on the outbound side is to catch anyone who stayed parked in the CBD overnight (or leaves after midnight), because they will need to pay the fee both for the day they entered and the day they exited. If you enter and exit on the same day you will not be charged twice. Indeed, you can enter and exit as many times as you want in one day and only get charged once - so get your money's worth

That doesn't seem to be nearly as many tolling points as one would think.  Are they no longer exempting West Street and FDR Drive from the tolling like they said?  Or are they creating a loophole where if someone directly enters one of those roads, but then exits in the tolled area, they don't have to pay?

I mean, it makes sense to toll it at those relatively fewer points, but then I don't know how they are going to arrange a toll-free routing. Because you can't really put a time limit - traffic in NYC could easily back you up an hour trying to go around if everyone else is going around, and you're "not allowed to leave the outer roadways". This strikes me that they've given up and just will toll everyone.

The problem is, the EIS does otherwise talk about traffic on the West Side Highway and FDR drive being exempt, and the enabling state statute requires it to be.

So, they probably are going to attempt to pair up tag reads to detect someone being exempt thru traffic, and will simply accept that someone making a quick dropoff en route might get away with not paying. And of course they'll still publicly state "you become subject to the congestion fee once you exit the West Side Highway or FDR Drive".

The EIS does also mention deployment of portable detectors, so it will never be possible to guarantee you won't get caught leaving the exempt roads briefly.

[roadman65]

I saw an article in the Sun that brings up the faulty management of the MTA.  I'd share but it's one of those links that forces you to subscribe to their media like The NY Times when you try to read their webpage.


If you Google the NY Sun, you can find it and hopefully someone here knows how to circumvent those news websites tactics to get $$ from the readers.

[Mergingtraffic]

Has the new improved Kew Gardens Interchange helped at all?

I noticed bad traffic on I-678 NB by NY-25A past the Kew, I just wondered if it pushed the backup further north?

[bluecountry]

Speaking of tolls, are the toll booths approaching the GW being demolished?

[Alps]

Curiosity brought up this beast: Is there a log somewhere of which NYC Interstates are state maintained, state owned, city maintained, city owned?

[Alps]

Speaking of tolls, are the toll booths approaching the GW being demolished?

yes.

[NE2]

Curiosity brought up this beast: Is there a log somewhere of which NYC Interstates are state maintained, state owned, city maintained, city owned?

All I've found is this from who knows how long ago showing ownership: https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region11/general-info/built-and-unbuilt-arterial-system

[vdeane]

^ The RIS GIS Viewer has a maintenance jurisdiction layer.
https://gis.dot.ny.gov/html5viewer/?viewer=risviewer

[NE2]

^ The RIS GIS Viewer has a maintenance jurisdiction layer.
https://gis.dot.ny.gov/html5viewer/?viewer=risviewer

Which looks to be full of shit, given that it shows the FDR and Henry Hudson as city maintained but the ramps as state maintained.