The Frost Tax

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, how about the Heat Tax?  Climate change was depicted quite differently in Cosmos from what kernals12 envisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bA4aV5s_UU

Floods can be prevented by dikes. Heat exhaustion can be prevented by air conditioning. Nothing short of putting heating coils under all our roads will keep us safe from snow and ice.

Dikes and air conditioning are free?  Why didn't you say so!

They're clearly much less expensive than heated roads.

Citation needed, a real one this time.

[kernals12]

Yeah, how about the Heat Tax?  Climate change was depicted quite differently in Cosmos from what kernals12 envisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bA4aV5s_UU

Floods can be prevented by dikes. Heat exhaustion can be prevented by air conditioning. Nothing short of putting heating coils under all our roads will keep us safe from snow and ice.

Dikes and air conditioning are free?  Why didn't you say so!

They're clearly much less expensive than heated roads.

Citation needed, a real one this time.

87% of American homes have air conditioning


Flood control dams are a ubiquity, the best known one near me is the Charles River Dam, erected in 1910 and replaced in 1978 by a better one. And we've already spoken at length about how Los Angeles brought its river to heel.

So we have lots of air conditioners and flood control systems, which wouldn't be the case if they weren't cost effective. How many places do you know that have heated roads?

[The Nature Boy]

At least one town in Michigan has a heated road system.

https://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, how about the Heat Tax?  Climate change was depicted quite differently in Cosmos from what kernals12 envisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bA4aV5s_UU

Floods can be prevented by dikes. Heat exhaustion can be prevented by air conditioning. Nothing short of putting heating coils under all our roads will keep us safe from snow and ice.

Dikes and air conditioning are free?  Why didn't you say so!

They're clearly much less expensive than heated roads.

Citation needed, a real one this time.

87% of American homes have air conditioning


Flood control dams are a ubiquity, the best known one near me is the Charles River Dam, erected in 1910 and replaced in 1978 by a better one. And we've already spoken at length about how Los Angeles brought its river to heel.

So we have lots of air conditioners and flood control systems, which wouldn't be the case if they weren't cost effective. How many places do you know that have heated roads?

You're the only person I've ever seen argue for mass use of heated roads.  So spin me a citation or proof of concept for them and their cost.  . 

[kernals12]

Yeah, how about the Heat Tax?  Climate change was depicted quite differently in Cosmos from what kernals12 envisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bA4aV5s_UU

Floods can be prevented by dikes. Heat exhaustion can be prevented by air conditioning. Nothing short of putting heating coils under all our roads will keep us safe from snow and ice.

Dikes and air conditioning are free?  Why didn't you say so!

They're clearly much less expensive than heated roads.

Citation needed, a real one this time.

87% of American homes have air conditioning


Flood control dams are a ubiquity, the best known one near me is the Charles River Dam, erected in 1910 and replaced in 1978 by a better one. And we've already spoken at length about how Los Angeles brought its river to heel.

So we have lots of air conditioners and flood control systems, which wouldn't be the case if they weren't cost effective. How many places do you know that have heated roads?

You're the only person I've ever seen argue for mass use of heated roads.  So spin me a citation or proof of concept for them and their cost.  .

I'm not arguing for them.

[Rothman]

Yeah, how about the Heat Tax?  Climate change was depicted quite differently in Cosmos from what kernals12 envisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bA4aV5s_UU

Floods can be prevented by dikes. Heat exhaustion can be prevented by air conditioning. Nothing short of putting heating coils under all our roads will keep us safe from snow and ice.

Dikes and air conditioning are free?  Why didn't you say so!

They're clearly much less expensive than heated roads.

Citation needed, a real one this time.

87% of American homes have air conditioning


Flood control dams are a ubiquity, the best known one near me is the Charles River Dam, erected in 1910 and replaced in 1978 by a better one. And we've already spoken at length about how Los Angeles brought its river to heel.

So we have lots of air conditioners and flood control systems, which wouldn't be the case if they weren't cost effective. How many places do you know that have heated roads?

You're the only person I've ever seen argue for mass use of heated roads.  So spin me a citation or proof of concept for them and their cost.  .

I'm not arguing for them.

So many levels of strawmen...

[hotdogPi]

I was actually the first to mention heated roads, in reply #14.

[SectorZ]

What really pissed me off was back in February when we had that freakishly mild winter and the only thing the media seemed to care about was the plight of skiers.

And on that note
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/28/world/europe/austria-ski-crowds-lockdown.html

I'm confused how this makes a point in your own thread.

It's evidence that skiers do not deserve our sympathy.

Why, because they don't crawl into the fecal position over a virus? Maybe they should just stay in their parent's basements as well, cowering in fear, or maybe you need to toughen up and learn that sub-freezing temps won't kill you.

[GaryV]

At least one town in Michigan has a heated road system.

https://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

They've spent millions, to melt the snow in small parts of the city.  Not miles of roadway, only some city blocks.  Also, the heat currently comes from a coal-fired power plant - at least that is being replaced by natural gas.

[1995hoo]

Why, because they don't crawl into the fecal position over a virus? ....

       

[SectorZ]

Why, because they don't crawl into the fecal position over a virus? ....

       

That's a long-standing joke term that a former Boston sports radio host used to use. I enjoying using it.

[1995hoo]

Why, because they don't crawl into the fecal position over a virus? ....

       

That's a long-standing joke term that a former Boston sports radio host used to use. I enjoying using it.

Ahhh. I assumed it was a typo or autocorrect in action.

[kernals12]

At least one town in Michigan has a heated road system.

https://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

They've spent millions, to melt the snow in small parts of the city.  Not miles of roadway, only some city blocks.  Also, the heat currently comes from a coal-fired power plant - at least that is being replaced by natural gas.

And eventually that will be replaced by solar power which requires much less water.

[kalvado]

At least one town in Michigan has a heated road system.

https://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

They've spent millions, to melt the snow in small parts of the city.  Not miles of roadway, only some city blocks.  Also, the heat currently comes from a coal-fired power plant - at least that is being replaced by natural gas.

And eventually that will be replaced by solar power which requires much less water.

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

[SectorZ]

At least one town in Michigan has a heated road system.

https://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

They've spent millions, to melt the snow in small parts of the city.  Not miles of roadway, only some city blocks.  Also, the heat currently comes from a coal-fired power plant - at least that is being replaced by natural gas.

I wonder if there is a way to use geothermal heat for this. It would still be expensive as hell but would not use carbon-intensive resources.

And by geothermal heating, I mean in the style that heats homes, not the electricity generated from hot water deep underground.

[triplemultiplex]

Kind of sounds like Kernals ideal world is one where we're all crowded into the warmest places on the planet such that the tropics resemble Coruscant and the rest of the planet is a series of canals and pipes feeding that population belt with fresh water and food.  Sorry to break it to you, but if you're gonna crowd 8 billion people like that, probably going to need some high quality mass transit, dude.
At least until they nail down the whole flying car thing.

[hotdogPi]

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Solar power might not work as well in Michigan (and other northern states) compared to elsewhere in the US, but it gets at least some sunlight. Massachusetts has solar panels, which corresponds to the latitude of southern Michigan, where most of the population is. If snow is an issue, create a sloped glass surface above it that will allow sunlight through but let snow slide to the bottom.

[kernals12]

At least one town in Michigan has a heated road system.

https://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

They've spent millions, to melt the snow in small parts of the city.  Not miles of roadway, only some city blocks.  Also, the heat currently comes from a coal-fired power plant - at least that is being replaced by natural gas.

And eventually that will be replaced by solar power which requires much less water.

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Our needs for electricity pale in comparison to the amount of energy the sun blasts at us, even in Michigan.

[kernals12]

Kind of sounds like Kernals ideal world is one where we're all crowded into the warmest places on the planet such that the tropics resemble Coruscant and the rest of the planet is a series of canals and pipes feeding that population belt with fresh water and food.  Sorry to break it to you, but if you're gonna crowd 8 billion people like that, probably going to need some high quality mass transit, dude.
At least until they nail down the whole flying car thing.

As Rothman said, many levels of strawman here.

[ET21]

Kind of sounds like Kernals ideal world is one where we're all crowded into the warmest places on the planet such that the tropics resemble Coruscant and the rest of the planet is a series of canals and pipes feeding that population belt with fresh water and food.  Sorry to break it to you, but if you're gonna crowd 8 billion people like that, probably going to need some high quality mass transit, dude.
At least until they nail down the whole flying car thing.

Mile to 2 mile high skyscrapers, weather control satellites, and a government that eventually turns into the Galactic Empire

[kernals12]

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Solar power might not work as well in Michigan (and other northern states) compared to elsewhere in the US, but it gets at least some sunlight. Massachusetts has solar panels, which corresponds to the latitude of southern Michigan, where most of the population is. If snow is an issue, create a sloped glass surface above it that will allow sunlight through but let snow slide to the bottom.

Actually, solar panels are only about 20% efficient, the rest of it is turned into heat, probably enough to melt most snow that accumulates on top.

[SectorZ]

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Solar power might not work as well in Michigan (and other northern states) compared to elsewhere in the US, but it gets at least some sunlight. Massachusetts has solar panels, which corresponds to the latitude of southern Michigan, where most of the population is. If snow is an issue, create a sloped glass surface above it that will allow sunlight through but let snow slide to the bottom.

Actually, solar panels are only about 20% efficient, the rest of it is turned into heat, probably enough to melt most snow that accumulates on top.

You really don't get out much. I guess in those clustered rich people suburbs west of Boston where having those things on a roof is probably not Haute couture dress for them you wouldn't know. Come to north Billerica down the street from me where Pan Am Rail put in a crapload of them to power the rail depot. Even angled many of them had snow until the deluge of rain Christmas Eve and 60 degree temps pushed off the 15 inches of snow from a week earlier.

I have a degree in meteorology and every time you post something that doesn't remotely equate to the realities of the natural world I die a little inside.

[hotdogPi]

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Solar power might not work as well in Michigan (and other northern states) compared to elsewhere in the US, but it gets at least some sunlight. Massachusetts has solar panels, which corresponds to the latitude of southern Michigan, where most of the population is. If snow is an issue, create a sloped glass surface above it that will allow sunlight through but let snow slide to the bottom.

Actually, solar panels are only about 20% efficient, the rest of it is turned into heat, probably enough to melt most snow that accumulates on top.

You really don't get out much. I guess in those clustered rich people suburbs west of Boston where having those things on a roof is probably not Haute couture dress for them you wouldn't know. Come to north Billerica down the street from me where Pan Am Rail put in a crapload of them to power the rail depot. Even angled many of them had snow until the deluge of rain Christmas Eve and 60 degree temps pushed off the 15 inches of snow from a week earlier.

I have a degree in meteorology and every time you post something that doesn't remotely equate to the realities of the natural world I die a little inside.

Does my idea of a sloped glass ceiling above it (for a large grid, not for houses) work to push the snow off to the side, or would there be problems with it?

Also, what's wrong with having grand ideas? I have a whole list of threads here, and almost all of them turned out not to work. (I still don't advocate in favor of global warming though; that part is ridiculous.)

[SectorZ]

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Solar power might not work as well in Michigan (and other northern states) compared to elsewhere in the US, but it gets at least some sunlight. Massachusetts has solar panels, which corresponds to the latitude of southern Michigan, where most of the population is. If snow is an issue, create a sloped glass surface above it that will allow sunlight through but let snow slide to the bottom.

Actually, solar panels are only about 20% efficient, the rest of it is turned into heat, probably enough to melt most snow that accumulates on top.

You really don't get out much. I guess in those clustered rich people suburbs west of Boston where having those things on a roof is probably not Haute couture dress for them you wouldn't know. Come to north Billerica down the street from me where Pan Am Rail put in a crapload of them to power the rail depot. Even angled many of them had snow until the deluge of rain Christmas Eve and 60 degree temps pushed off the 15 inches of snow from a week earlier.

I have a degree in meteorology and every time you post something that doesn't remotely equate to the realities of the natural world I die a little inside.

Does my idea of a sloped glass ceiling above it (for a large grid, not for houses) work to push the snow off to the side, or would there be problems with it?

Also, what's wrong with having grand ideas? I have a whole list of threads here, and almost all of them turned out not to work. (I still don't advocate in favor of global warming though; that part is ridiculous.)

It probably could, but kernals12 thinking that somehow the heat generated from solar panels would melt the snow, without even considering that they generate nothing while covered in snow, is what set me off against him. My rant certainly wasn't directed at your ideas.

[kernals12]

Michigan. Winter. Solar power. What can go wrong?

Solar power might not work as well in Michigan (and other northern states) compared to elsewhere in the US, but it gets at least some sunlight. Massachusetts has solar panels, which corresponds to the latitude of southern Michigan, where most of the population is. If snow is an issue, create a sloped glass surface above it that will allow sunlight through but let snow slide to the bottom.

Actually, solar panels are only about 20% efficient, the rest of it is turned into heat, probably enough to melt most snow that accumulates on top.

You really don't get out much. I guess in those clustered rich people suburbs west of Boston where having those things on a roof is probably not Haute couture dress for them you wouldn't know. Come to north Billerica down the street from me where Pan Am Rail put in a crapload of them to power the rail depot. Even angled many of them had snow until the deluge of rain Christmas Eve and 60 degree temps pushed off the 15 inches of snow from a week earlier.

I have a degree in meteorology and every time you post something that doesn't remotely equate to the realities of the natural world I die a little inside.

Does my idea of a sloped glass ceiling above it (for a large grid, not for houses) work to push the snow off to the side, or would there be problems with it?

Also, what's wrong with having grand ideas? I have a whole list of threads here, and almost all of them turned out not to work. (I still don't advocate in favor of global warming though; that part is ridiculous.)

It probably could, but kernals12 thinking that somehow the heat generated from solar panels would melt the snow, without even considering that they generate nothing while covered in snow, is what set me off against him. My rant certainly wasn't directed at your ideas.

I was imagining that the snow would melt before it accumulated.