Which cities would be good for expansion franchises?

[hobsini2]

I agree with the idea that some teams should just be relocated instead of over expanding.

On a bit of a tangent, I am a fan of college football and the bowl games. But having the same areas being the hosts of multiple bowls should have some of those move to other places as well. And I prefer using a more iconic name than a corp sponsor name.
So taking the 44 bowls that are supposed to play in 2021-2022 season, I keep the traditional bowls where they are.
Big 6 & Title:
National Championship - This year, Indianapolis
Rose - Pasadena (Los Angeles)
Peach - Atlanta
Fiesta - Glendale (Phoenix)
Sugar - New Orleans
Orange - Miami
Cotton - Arlington (Dallas)

Other traditional bowls that stay put:
Alamo - San Antonio
Liberty - Memphis
Sun - El Paso
Hawaii - Honolulu
Gator - Jacksonville
Citrus - Orlando
Music City - Nashville
Independence - Shreveport
Holiday - San Diego
Celebration Bowl - Atlanta (Traditionally played between the MEAC and SWAC. I would like to see this site rotate among Atlanta, Charlotte, Washington DC and New Orleans)

Traditional bowls that stay put but get renamed:
Las Vegas - Las Vegas (Rename this the Oasis Bowl or Silver Bowl)
Quick Lane - Detroit (Renamed the Motor City Bowl)

Newer bowls that don't change location or name:
Bahamas - Nassau, Bahamas
Camellia - Montgomery
Idaho Potato - Boise
Fenway - Boston
Military - Annapolis
Myrtle Beach - Myrtle Beach (Possibly renamed the Palmetto Bowl)
Pinstripe - Bronx
New Mexico - Albuquerque
Arizona - Tucson (Possibly renamed the Cactus Bowl)
Gasparilla - Tampa

Newer bowls that stay put but change the name:
Duke's Mayo - Charlotte - Becomes the Queen City Bowl
Lending Tree - Mobile - Becomes the Port Bowl or Azalea Bowl
Texas - Houston - Becomes the Rice Bowl
Red Box - Santa Clara - Becomes the Golden Bowl
Birmingham - Birmingham - Becomes the Iron Bowl (I know that name is used for the rivalry.), Steel Bowl, Legacy Bowl or Veterans Bowl.
LA - Los Angeles - Becomes the Hollywood Bowl or City of Angels Bowl

Bowls that get moved and renamed:
Cheez It - Orlando
Cure - Orlando
Guaranteed Rate - Phoenix
New Orleans Bowl - New Orleans
Boca Raton - Boca Raton
Frisco - Frisco, TX

Bowls that get moved but retain the name:
Armed Forces - Fort Worth
First Responders - Dallas
Outback - Tampa

Metro Areas that have a 50k stadium that do not currently host a yearly bowl and do not have a bowl in the state:
Denver
Kansas City
Green Bay
Chicago
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Indianapolis
Minneapolis
Baltimore
Seattle
Cincinnati
State College
Columbus
Madison
Lincoln
Columbia SC
Oklahoma City/Norman
Fayetteville, AR
South Bend
Iowa City
Blacksburg
Oxford, MS
Provo
Columbia, MO
Charlottesville
Des Moines/Ames
Starkville, MS
Louisville
Lexington
Champaign
Stillwater, OK
Morgantown
Lafayette, IN
Eugene
Bloomington, IN
Boulder
Lawrence, KS

Metro Areas that do not have a bowl but there is a bowl somewhere else in the state:
Buffalo
Ann Arbor
Lansing
Tallahassee
Gainesville
Austin
College Station
Tuscaloosa
Knoxville
Baton Rouge
Lubbock
Raleigh

[CoreySamson]

Texas - Houston - Becomes the Rice Bowl

I don't think Rice Bowl would be a good name since Rice University exists in Houston, but that's just my opinion. Something more like the Rodeo Bowl or Magnolia Bowl would be better.

[Big John]

Texas - Houston - Becomes the Rice Bowl

I don't think Rice Bowl would be a good name since Rice University exists in Houston, but that's just my opinion. Something more like the Rodeo Bowl or Magnolia Bowl would be better.

Would not fit there as Mississippi is the Magnolia State.

[CoreySamson]

Texas - Houston - Becomes the Rice Bowl

I don't think Rice Bowl would be a good name since Rice University exists in Houston, but that's just my opinion. Something more like the Rodeo Bowl or Magnolia Bowl would be better.

Would not fit there as Mississippi is the Magnolia State.

One of Houston's many nicknames is the Magnolia City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicknames_of_Houston#Magnolia_City

I still like Rodeo Bowl better, though.

[JayhawkCO]

Metro Areas that have a 50k stadium that do not currently host a yearly bowl and do not have a bowl in the state:
Denver
Kansas City
Green Bay
Chicago
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
Indianapolis
Minneapolis
Baltimore
Seattle
Cincinnati
State College
Columbus
Madison
Lincoln
Columbia SC
Oklahoma City/Norman
Fayetteville, AR
South Bend
Iowa City
Blacksburg
Oxford, MS
Provo
Columbia, MO
Charlottesville
Des Moines/Ames
Starkville, MS
Louisville
Lexington
Champaign
Stillwater, OK
Morgantown
Lafayette, IN
Eugene
Bloomington, IN
Boulder
Lawrence, KS

Most of these places are not in cities that would be great for winter bowl games and/or aren't cities of a size to a) be interesting for visiting teams and b) have enough hotel rooms.  There's a reason the vast majority of bowl games are in the southern parts of the U.S. and in large cities.

Chris

[kphoger]

Mexico City

I could see that working....much much easier than London. 🙄

It could be a huge untapped market.

What about Monterrey instead?

Metro area population over 4.6 million
Less than 150 miles from the US border
Top of the list of Mexican cities for livability and quality of life

(History note:  for a brief period in 1969, Monterrey had a CFL football team.)

[Life in Paradise]

Mexico City

I could see that working....much much easier than London. 🙄

It could be a huge untapped market.

What about Monterrey instead?

Metro area population over 4.6 million
Less than 150 miles from the US border
Top of the list of Mexican cities for livability and quality of life

(History note:  for a brief period in 1969, Monterrey had a CFL football team.)

The Tequila Bowl, Corona Bowl, Dos XX Bowl

[hotdogPi]

The Tequila Bowl, Corona Bowl, Dos XX Bowl

How about something that can be in a bowl? Nacho Bowl.

[kphoger]

Dos XX

You mean 'Dos Equis'.  Whose symbol is a big red XX.

How about something that can be in a bowl? Nacho Bowl.

Hey!  That's nacho cheese!

[OCGuy81]

Dos XX

You mean 'Dos Equis'.  Whose symbol is a big red XX.

How about something that can be in a bowl? Nacho Bowl.

Hey!  That's nacho cheese!

A great opportunity to sell nacho hats??

[Roadgeekteen]

Mexico City

I could see that working....much much easier than London. 🙄

It could be a huge untapped market.

What about Monterrey instead?

Metro area population over 4.6 million
Less than 150 miles from the US border
Top of the list of Mexican cities for livability and quality of life

(History note:  for a brief period in 1969, Monterrey had a CFL football team.)

You will still probably get more money off of Mexico City's 21.8 million metro pop

[kphoger]

Yeah, I get that.  I just dislike the idea of an expansion team being 700 miles south of the border, rather than 150.

[SP Cook]

IMHO,

MLB - MLB's expansion to Florida and Arizona, which was done to raise cash to pay off the damages in the trumped up "collusion" case, was a mistake.   Tampa is never going to work.  Time to move back to Montreal.  Oakland is broke and it's time to follow the Raiders to Nevada.   Really no other city makes any sense at this time.   

NFL - Is not going to expand anytime soon. 

NBA - The NBA is vastly less popular than ESPN would like you to think it is.  Part of its act is to rub up against some AAA city and tell they if they bankrupt the town to build an arena, they can be "big time" too.  Cities continue to fall for it. 

NHL - The NHL is fine, thank you very much, at a math friendly 32.  The Leafs will NEVER allow a team in Hamilton, nor should they.  Quebec City failed once already. 

MLS - MLS seems to be a lot like Amtrak.  A tiny but loud niche screams and pouts for the government to subsidize their hobby, while 99.9% ignore it totally.  Will continue to bounce about from town to town, because soccer is unloved and always will be. 

International - The idea of teams in places like Mexico, where teams would take in pesos and pay out US$, and the average income is 1/6th that of the USA, is silly.  Just be happy with the USA and Canada.

Relegation - Has no application to any USA sport. 

NCAA - Pay the players, which is what NIL is, will DESTROY college athletics.  Not destroy them as we know them, but DESTROY them totally.


removed politics

[kphoger]

International - The idea of teams in places like Mexico, where teams would take in pesos and pay out US$, and the average income is 1/6th that of the USA, is silly.  Just be happy with the USA and Canada.

What about MLB in Santo Domingo?

[SP Cook]

What about MLB in Santo Domingo?

The internet is your friend:

"The Dominicans' current average monthly income is RD$41,164 (US$777) for a household with 3.2 members, according to the National Survey of Household Income and Expenditures 2018 published by the Central Bank."

It just does not work.  Modern sports figures make tens, if not hundreds, of millions of $$.  You cannot generate that kind of money in a place where families live on less than $800/month.

[kphoger]

What about MLB in Santo Domingo?

The internet is your friend:

"The Dominicans' current average monthly income is RD$41,164 (US$777) for a household with 3.2 members, according to the National Survey of Household Income and Expenditures 2018 published by the Central Bank."

It just does not work.  Modern sports figures make tens, if not hundreds, of millions of $$.  You cannot generate that kind of money in a place where families live on less than $800/month.

Yes, the internet is my friend.  That's why I didn't just say the Dominican Republic in general.  I said Santo Domingo, which has an average gross salary of nearly 40,000 USD, and where roughly half the population earns at least 20,000 USD.

Here's an existing baseball stadium in Santo Domingo, which currently hosts two national pro baseball teams:

[SP Cook]

Not to belabor the point, but most such salary surveys only measure the formal economy.  Wage earners.  In a place like the DR, where 57% of the non-farmers are working informally (irregularly and for cash or even non-cash benefits like a place to sleep), and 50% are classed as either farmers or the sad term of "excess rural population", such numbers are meaningless.

Its a poor place.  Not USA/Canada poor.  Real poor.  Poor people spend most of their time trying to find their next meal.

[kphoger]

Not to belabor the point, but most such salary surveys only measure the formal economy.  Wage earners.  In a place like the DR, where 57% of the non-farmers are working informally (irregularly and for cash or even non-cash benefits like a place to sleep), and 50% are classed as either farmers or the sad term of "excess rural population", such numbers are meaningless.

Its a poor place.  Not USA/Canada poor.  Real poor.  Poor people spend most of their time trying to find their next meal.

You mean, other than all those people who are already paying for stadium tickets?

[texaskdog]

Baseball I'd definitely grab Austin.  We have no major league sports at all and the AAA Express draw well.  Move the Florida teams that don't draw

NFL I'd go San Antonio and put the stadium in New Braunfels.  SA & Austin are both big enough for a team and growing fast, and putting one in between would be a huge draw.

NHL I'd put some more teams in Canada and get rid of some sun belt teams.

CFL: Quebec City for sure.

[kphoger]

Not to belabor the point, but most such salary surveys only measure the formal economy.  Wage earners.  In a place like the DR, where 57% of the non-farmers are working informally (irregularly and for cash or even non-cash benefits like a place to sleep), and 50% are classed as either farmers or the sad term of "excess rural population", such numbers are meaningless.

Its a poor place.  Not USA/Canada poor.  Real poor.  Poor people spend most of their time trying to find their next meal.

Not to belabor the point but, again, I said Santo Domingo specifically.  You keep citing numbers for the whole country.  Are 57% of non-farmers in Santo Domingo working informally?  Is 50% of the population in Santo Domingo classified as farmers or rural?

I posted a picture of an actual professional baseball stadium in Santo Domingo, full of ticket-paying fans.  The question isn't whether most people in the DR (or even Santo Domingo for that matter) can afford tickets.  The question is whether there are enough people in Santo Domingo who would buy tickets.

[Bruce]

MLS - MLS seems to be a lot like Amtrak.  A tiny but loud niche screams and pouts for the government to subsidize their hobby, while 99.9% ignore it totally.  Will continue to bounce about from town to town, because soccer is unloved and always will be. 

Most new MLS stadiums are funded privately by their owners with less government involvement and usually are smaller and cheaper (in the $300 million range), unlike the extravagant wastefulness of the other big leagues. Three new stadiums open this year in Austin (where the city owns the land, but did not contribute to the $240 million cost), Columbus ($140 million out of $373 million is considered public funding, but includes infrastructure for a new neighborhood), and Cincinnati ($53 million out of $250 million comes from public funding, with additional payments from the ownership group to provide for a new high school stadium and local improvements), all of which are majority funded by the owners.

MLS has only had one relocation in its entire history (later resolved with an expansion to the original home) and two actual contractions (way back in 2001). By the same logic, the NBA and NFL bounces around from town to town because it's unloved.

[kphoger]

MLS - MLS seems to be a lot like Amtrak.  A tiny but loud niche screams and pouts for the government to subsidize their hobby, while 99.9% ignore it totally.  Will continue to bounce about from town to town, because soccer is unloved and always will be. 

You forgot to mention Europe in that comparison.  Trains are everywhere in Europe, therefore trains should be everywhere in the US.  Soccer is huge in Europe, therefore soccer should be huge in the US.

[facts]

Well, now, why'd you have to go and bring the voice of reason into this?

[SP Cook]

According to the internet, a DR baseball ticket is $10.  Having $10 disposable income in the DR means you are among the elite of the elite.

I spend a lot of time in Central America, mostly in Nicaragua, the second poorest country in the western hemisphere.  I can show you pictures of very nice crowds at each of their top sports as well, which are, in order, boxing, baseball and soccer.  But they are charging local prices and paying local rates to the players. 

Sports discussions about expansion always go down the "why not the third world?" path.  The answer is in the question.  Because it is the third world.

[kphoger]

According to the internet, a DR baseball ticket is $10.

Thanks for finding that.  I tried to hunt down ticket prices online but couldn't find anything.

Having $10 disposable income in the DR means you are among the elite of the elite.

That's overstating things.  Ten bucks is the price of about 2½ gallons of gas, or an eight-piece combo at the local fried chicken chain.  Plenty of people can afford that.

Now, if ticket prices were equivalent to what they are here in the US, then that's a different story.  And that's what I was getting at.  How many people in Santo Domingo could and would buy tickets at the price they'd end up being sold for if MLB expanded there?  Well, how much would they cost?  Could some cost savings due to location allow for lower ticket prices?  Many questions I don't know the answer to.  All I'm saying is that it might be possible, and that the idea shouldn't simply be shot down by merit of the DR's being a poorer country than ours.

I spend a lot of time in Central America, mostly in Nicaragua, the second poorest country in the western hemisphere.  I can show you pictures of very nice crowds at each of their top sports as well, which are, in order, boxing, baseball and soccer.  But they are charging local prices and paying local rates to the players. 

Sports discussions about expansion always go down the "why not the third world?" path.  The answer is in the question.  Because it is the third world.

And there's the rub.  In a place where income disparity is much greater than here, is the number of people wealthy and interested enough to pay MLB ticket prices enough to make it financially viable?

[JayhawkCO]

Sports discussions about expansion always go down the "why not the third world?" path.  The answer is in the question.  Because it is the third world.

My worry about it has nothing to do with the relative affluence of the area.  My concern is always "would the players want to live there?".  There was that issue/concern with the Canadian pro teams until people realized how nice Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal are.

Chris