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I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)

Started by Tarkus, March 14, 2009, 04:18:13 PM

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jakeroot

Shame to see that paperclip interchange with 99E disappearing, though I know the geometry of cramming that in with a wider roadway would result in some very awkward geometry (uneven loops, mainly). Can't say I didn't see it coming, though.

The loop ramp coming in from Pier 99 St is super unusual. It looks like something from Cities Skylines, where players love to use loops on loops to get to higher evelations.


Sub-Urbanite

The politics on this thing are getting gnarlier and gnarlier, though.

On the Oregon side, Rep. Khanh Pham, who represents the 82nd Avenue area of Portland, is seeing her influence increase in the Oregon Legislature. She's beholden to the bike lobby and climate activists and has been pretty vocal that she wants this bridge dead. Why she wants to continue to encourage trucks to bypass the Interstate Bridge and use I-205 in her district, I don't really know, but nobody ever said the bike lobby was terribly logical. The project would need funding from the Oregon Legislature to get done, so Pham's opposition is going to be a problem unless the rest of the state (including Republicans) to prioritize it over the objection of Portland liberals.

On the Washington side, Joe Kent seems to be cruising to victory in the congressional district that represents Vancouver, and he recently said the bridge (maybe just the light rail component? Not quite sure?) would "Be an antifa superhighway into our district."

And then there's the tolling component. Heretofore tolling has been a huge part of the equation, but with WSDOT lowering tolls on Tacoma Narrows and facing calls to drop tolls on the Seattle tunnel, there are bound to be questions about whether to implement tolling here. Oregon is facing huge headwinds in its effort to toll I-205 to pay for the Abernethy Bridge replacement and widening, including a proposed ballot measure that would let anyone who lives in a county within 15 miles of the proposed toll to vote on a proposed toll. Conveniently for anti-toll interests, Marion County and Yamhill County (which are both fairly conservative counties) are both within 15 miles of the proposed tolls.

A lot of good work being done but having a hard time seeing the stars aligning to get the funding for this project unless the bridge just falls into the river.

triplemultiplex

Nice to know both parties will be to blame when a hundred people die as I-5 falls into the river during the next Cascadia earthquake. :P
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2022, 12:54:37 PM
Nice to know both parties will be to blame when a hundred people die as I-5 falls into the river during the next Cascadia earthquake. :P
Everyone who has meddled in this and delayed it needs to be named and held responsible.

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2022, 12:54:37 PM
Nice to know both parties will be to blame when a hundred people die as I-5 falls into the river during the next Cascadia earthquake. :P

"It's nothing compared to the thousands who will die from climate change-induced weather patterns caused by emissions on this massive bridge"  - the far left

"It's nothing compared to the carnage that will happen when Antifa crosses the River on their riot trains"  - the far right

"Shit. This water is cold."  - everyone in the middle

Bickendan

And the Columbia will be cold.

Though politics in this kind of project is unavoidable, do try to avoid turning this into a political discussion, though the characterization above tracks.

Sub-Urbanite

More facts than politics: The "antifa train" angle has sputtered out, as (despite polling indicating the contrary) Joe Kent lost to Marie Gluesenkamp Perez in the race for Congress. So there's one fewer papercut on this project.

Plutonic Panda

That's good. What is the new politicians opinion of it?

Bruce

The Columbian recapped an October debate: Kent opposed a replacement (and especially the light rail element) and wants a western bypass (which has a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of ever happening). Gluesenkamp Perez supports a replacement with light rail and calls tolling an inevitable part of funding the project, with hopes of reducing the burden by securing additional federal funding.
Wikipedia - TravelMapping (100% of WA SRs)

Photos

Plutonic Panda


kkt

Every time they fail to rebuild the crossing they come back in 5-10 years, it still needs to be done, and the price has doubled.
If we don't build it soon it will exceed the national debt.

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: kkt on December 12, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
Every time they fail to rebuild the crossing they come back in 5-10 years, it still needs to be done, and the price has doubled.
If we don't build it soon it will exceed the national debt.

"But next time, we'll build it without (light rail / more than 6 lanes / bike lanes / unsightly concrete pillars / any carbon emissions / name some other thing people find to hate about it) and it'll actually cost less!" - The predictable bleating when this iteration falls apart

Bruce

The light rail and lanes are pretty much settled among the stakeholders who actually matter (states, counties, Metro, TriMet, C-Tran, RTC). The big hangup is with the Coast Guard over the bridge clearance and Pearson Field over its height. The latter two aren't leaving a lot of overlap.

Would probably be easier to just close Pearson and turn it into an extension of the Fort Vancouver National Historical Park. Could keep the hangars and redevelop it into a dense neighborhood with transit connections to the new bridge as well, which would fund the construction of a new general airport further out from Vancouver.
Wikipedia - TravelMapping (100% of WA SRs)

Photos

Plutonic Panda

Update:

QuoteThe Interstate Bridge Replacement Program released a cost breakdown for its $5 billion-$7.5 billion project and, with it, a clearer image of what the project will look like and how it could affect Vancouver.

The biggest chunk, with an estimated price tag of between $1.64 billion and $2.45 billion, will go toward the replacement of the bridge itself.

The remaining money will be spent on transit investments, scheduled to cost between $1.32 billion and $1.99 billion; on Oregon and Washington interchanges, roadways and shared use path, estimated at $1.05 billion to $1.57 billion for work in Oregon and $990 million to $1.49 billion for work in Washington.

Although the cost breakdown did not identify which funding source will cover each aspect of the project, Assistant Program Administrator Frank Green said that most of the $1.32 billion to $1.99 billion in transit investments will be covered by federal funds.

- https://www.columbian.com/news/2023/feb/27/up-to-2-45-billion-of-i-5-bridge-project-budget-will-go-to-actual-replacement/

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 01, 2023, 04:37:50 PM
Update:

QuoteThe Interstate Bridge Replacement Program released a cost breakdown for its $5 billion-$7.5 billion project and, with it, a clearer image of what the project will look like and how it could affect Vancouver.

The biggest chunk, with an estimated price tag of between $1.64 billion and $2.45 billion, will go toward the replacement of the bridge itself.

The remaining money will be spent on transit investments, scheduled to cost between $1.32 billion and $1.99 billion; on Oregon and Washington interchanges, roadways and shared use path, estimated at $1.05 billion to $1.57 billion for work in Oregon and $990 million to $1.49 billion for work in Washington.

Although the cost breakdown did not identify which funding source will cover each aspect of the project, Assistant Program Administrator Frank Green said that most of the $1.32 billion to $1.99 billion in transit investments will be covered by federal funds.

- https://www.columbian.com/news/2023/feb/27/up-to-2-45-billion-of-i-5-bridge-project-budget-will-go-to-actual-replacement/

"BuT iT's A $7 BiLLiOn FrEeWay ExPanSioN prOjeCt!!!"

Bruce

The road elements add up to $3.68 billion on the low end and $5.51 billion on the high end. It is also an expansion of lanes, so that part isn't inaccurate.
Wikipedia - TravelMapping (100% of WA SRs)

Photos

Plutonic Panda

Oregon wants to borrow 1 billion dollars for this project:

QuoteLawmakers in Oregon are looking to borrow $1 billion to replace the Interstate 5 bridge, a move that would match Washington's pledge last year.

State legislators propose issuing bonds backed against Oregon's general fund and the highway user tax program used by the Oregon Department of Transportation.

The details came in a policy draft sent out Wednesday to members of the state's Joint Transportation Committee. Some aspects of the document are still not final, according to lawmakers.

Rep. Susan McLain, D-Hillsboro, said the borrowing plan is a "very simple package."  The general fund bond would amount to about $300 million, and the ODOT dollars would amount to $700 million.

Read more here: https://www.opb.org/article/2023/03/24/interstate-5-bridge-bonds-oregon/

The Ghostbuster

Maybe they should ask a 1%er to give them the money, such as Elon Musk. Then again, he might insist on adding a hyperloop route to the bridge.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 27, 2023, 08:32:18 PM
Maybe they should ask a 1%er to give them the money, such as Elon Musk. Then again, he might insist on adding a hyperloop route to the bridge.
Let him do that then when the rest of route isn't built turn it into a bike/ped path lol

kkt

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 27, 2023, 08:32:18 PM
Maybe they should ask a 1%er to give them the money, such as Elon Musk. Then again, he might insist on adding a hyperloop route to the bridge.

Given how 1%ers projects turn out, I'd rather pay for the bridge with tolls or taxes.

Plutonic Panda


Plutonic Panda

Work to begin at the end of 2025. Hopefully they make good on that promise:

QuoteConstruction for the new crossing is expected to cost from $4.8-6.5 billion and should take 10 years, with work intended to commence at the end of 2025.

- https://www.worldhighways.com/wh8/news/oregon-washington-interstate-bridge-replacement

kkt

Good, I was afraid for a while our strategy would be to wait until it fell down in the next big earthquake and killed a bunch of people before doing anything.

jakeroot

#198
I think "end of 2025" has been a goal for a while now, but there are still budget and design issues to work out.




Article from last month talking about how the bridge may need to include an openable span, ideally bascule design...but ultimately may not actually need it due to separate negotiations:

https://www.opb.org/article/2023/03/10/new-i-5-bridge-over-columbia-river-plan-must-include-lift-section/

pderocco

Quote from: jakeroot on April 13, 2023, 08:52:50 PM
I think "end of 2025" has been a goal for a while now, but there are still budget and design issues to work out.




Article from last month talking about how the bridge may need to include an openable span, ideally bascule design...but ultimately may not actually need it due to separate negotiations:

https://www.opb.org/article/2023/03/10/new-i-5-bridge-over-columbia-river-plan-must-include-lift-section/

178 feet is ridiculous. According to Wikipedia, the I-205 bridge only has 144 feet of clearance, and there's nothing between the two bridges but a bunch of marinas and houseboats.



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