Pikepass to be compatible with North Texas Tollway Authority roads

Started by bugo, July 11, 2014, 04:57:21 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

bugo

On August 10, 2014, Pikepass (Oklahoma's cashless toll system) will be compatible with the NTTA roads in the Dallas/Fort Worth metro.  It will work on Dallas North Tollway, George Bush Turnpike, Sam Rayburn Tollway, LBJ Texpress, Addison Airport Toll Tunnel and Chisholm Trail Parkway.  The NTTA tag will work in Oklahoma on all turnpikes.  Since Pikepass is compatible with the Kansas Turnpike and now NTTA's turnpikes, we're getting closer to having regional compatibility.  This is great news.  Hopefully one day soon Pikepass will be EZ Pass compatible.

https://www.pikepass.com/pikepass/faqs.aspx/#24

http://www.news9.com/story/23717813/oklahoma-drivers-may-be-able-to-use-pikepasses-in-north-texas?source=related


RBBrittain

It says nothing about interoperability between Pikepass and non-NTTA Texas tags (TxTag, EZ TAG), or between TollTag & K-Tag.  Since the Pikepass/TollTag agreement doesn't extend to airports on either side (Tulsa, D/FW & Love Field), I doubt those will be interoperable just yet.

Since Arkansas' Bella Vista Bypass was once planned to be a toll road (though the current 2-lane segment isn't) and it wouldn't be surprising if other parts of I-49 here are tolled, full regional interoperability for Kansas, Oklahoma & Texas is to Arkansas' benefit, and probably Missouri's as well.  Considering three of OTA's toll roads (Will Rogers, Cherokee & Muskogee Turnpikes) end near the Missouri & Arkansas borders, I'm sure most BVB users would strongly prefer Pikepass interoperability.  However, since I-49 will have to cross the corner of Bowie County, which is already part of a Texas RMA with a toll road (Toll 49, ironically), I suspect TxDOT will insist on TxTag for that segment if tolled.  And since MoDOT's main proposed toll road (I-70) is essentially a continuation of the Kansas Turnpike, I'm sure they will want K-Tag interoperability.

Scott5114

It's kind of insane that Texas hasn't gotten its toll tags interoperable. It could be done by legislative fiat by the Texas legislature if necessary.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

wxfree

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 12, 2014, 08:46:48 PM
It's kind of insane that Texas hasn't gotten its toll tags interoperable. It could be done by legislative fiat by the Texas legislature if necessary.

The three tags are interoperable across all toll authorities.  International Parkway, through DFW Airport, is not run by a toll authority, but by the airport, jointly owned by the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth.  This is not a matter of interoperability; it's an outside authority (the airport) that has selected to accept one tag and not the others.  Likewise, OTA is an outside authority that has made an arrangement with NTTA, but not TxDOT or HCTRA.  There's no lack of interoperability across Texas toll authorities, but two outside authorities have arrangements only with NTTA.  I don't expect DFW will accept other Texas tags, since it serves mostly NTTA-area customers, but OTA probably will eventually be interoperable with all Texas toll authorities.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Bobby5280

In a perfect world (or perhaps a more logical one) we would have standardized RFID tags that worked on all toll roads, toll bridges and toll tunnels in the United States. Hell, current technology is probably already capable of making something like an OTA PikePass work on just about any American toll road that uses RFID technology.

Honestly, it would make a lot more sense for drivers to need only one tag on their windshield rather than 2 or more tags.

Personally, I'm rooting for reciprocal TxTag compatibility with PikePass. I have more of a need of driving on toll roads in the Houston and Austin areas than I do Dallas.

wxfree

Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 14, 2014, 02:46:56 PM
In a perfect world (or perhaps a more logical one) we would have standardized RFID tags that worked on all toll roads, toll bridges and toll tunnels in the United States. Hell, current technology is probably already capable of making something like an OTA PikePass work on just about any American toll road that uses RFID technology.

Honestly, it would make a lot more sense for drivers to need only one tag on their windshield rather than 2 or more tags.

Personally, I'm rooting for reciprocal TxTag compatibility with PikePass. I have more of a need of driving on toll roads in the Houston and Austin areas than I do Dallas.

This gets toward a question of mine.  Texas has a ridiculous hodge-podge of toll authorities.  To demonstrate my concern, I'll point out that NTTA administers tolling in El Paso, since the RMA there isn't "grown up" enough to administer everything.  With the agreement between NTTA and OTA, does that mean you'll be able you use your PikePass in El Paso?

If OTA and TxDOT work out an arrangement, I'll be able to use my TxTag in Oklahoma, and you can use your PikePass on TxDOT toll roads, but will that also apply to the RMAs that use TxTag?  There's a single tag with multiple implementations.  Is each implementation natively interoperable with whatever TxDOT, who administers TxTag, does?

NTTA's area is closest to Oklahoma and most likely to serve PikePass users, so it makes sense to start there.  But with the general chaos in road funding and the little toll fiefdoms we've set up, I think it's probably best to stop there until the rest of the state can be included in a single step.  TxDOT, the RMAs, and the county authorities in the Houston area need to get everything together at the same time so you don't have situations such as legally using your PikePass on Fort Bend Parkway and then suddenly committing a violation when crossing a county line, where the road is under a different authority without an interoperability agreement.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Scott5114

Yes, it's really confusing. What I was getting at more with my earlier post was more along the lines of "I wish TollTag/TxTag/WhateverOtherTag would merge into one single tag" so we don't have a problem along the lines of PikePass = TollTag and TollTag = TxTag, but PikePass ≠ TxTag. Since this is all within a single state there doesn't need to be interoperability at all, the Texas legislature can probably by fiat declare "all toll tags used in Texas shall be administered by TxDOT" and that would force a merger.

Really, the Texas toll road situation in general is kind of bizarre and confusing. Is there any other state where multiple metro areas operate their own toll road agencies independent of the state? It seems like a lot of administrative expenses could be cut by merging them all into a TxDOT turnpike division.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

wxfree

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2014, 08:27:39 PM
Yes, it's really confusing. What I was getting at more with my earlier post was more along the lines of "I wish TollTag/TxTag/WhateverOtherTag would merge into one single tag" so we don't have a problem along the lines of PikePass = TollTag and TollTag = TxTag, but PikePass ≠ TxTag. Since this is all within a single state there doesn't need to be interoperability at all, the Texas legislature can probably by fiat declare "all toll tags used in Texas shall be administered by TxDOT" and that would force a merger.

Really, the Texas toll road situation in general is kind of bizarre and confusing. Is there any other state where multiple metro areas operate their own toll road agencies independent of the state? It seems like a lot of administrative expenses could be cut by merging them all into a TxDOT turnpike division.

It would be nice, perhaps, if we had one toll authority.  We had Texas Turnpike Authority until the 1990s.  At that time, its only projects were in Dallas, and people there worried about their toll money being sent to Austin and spent on whatever, so TTA was abolished, NTTA was established, and the Texas Turnpike Authority division of TxDOT (now the Toll Operations Division) was established.

One benefit of the regional approach is that when TxDOT was going CDA-crazy, NTTA was there to keep the roads, and money, in public hands.  The Sam Rayburn Tollway cost NTTA billions, though, which slowed down everything else they wanted to do.  It's also possible that part of the Bush Turnpike would have been privatized if TxDOT had their way.  After the Rayburn debacle, the legislature passed laws giving the local or regional authority primacy, and requiring TxDOT to allow the authority to use the right-of-way to build the road without paying a concession fee.  That way there will be no more raping of public authorities and a road can't be sold off unless the local or regional authority does it (which they've never done) or refuses to take on the project so it reverts to TxDOT (as with some of the managed lanes).

So there may have been some benefit, keeping profiteers out of the toll booths.  TxDOT mitigated that benefit with the Rayburn project, but can't do that any more.  The local and regional authorities are closer to the people they serve.  It's still a mess, though.  Collin County, a member of NTTA, has their own county toll road authority.  After NTTA took on Chisholm Trail Parkway, the only toll project (other than one bridge) not near or partially in Collin County, the county became impatient and said "Hey, what about us?" and started trying to build their own toll roads.

Sorry for going on, I'm just ranting.  Every time there's a major project these days, TxDOT and the regional authority use what they call "partnership" to come up with some gimmick to make the numbers work.  For the next project, they find another gimmick.  Road funding is starting to look like a huge accounting scam.  (One of the gimmicks is patently illegal, except that they call it a "loan" to be drawn on if needed rather than a debt guarantee, which it actually is, and is illegal.)

Back on topic, we really should have a single toll payment system.  There's no reason to give up the regional brands; those can be made into nothing more than the label on the sticker.  What we need to do is integrate everything on the technical side to bring all tags into one system.  As for the multitude of authorities, that might have its benefits, and it doesn't confuse drivers since they mostly don't know who's in charge of what road.  If we integrate billing, so that, for example, you get a single bill for CTRMA roads and TxDOT roads during a trip to the Austin area, then there's really no need for drivers to worry about the different authorities.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Scott5114

Multiple brands for something that is exactly the same is apt to be confusing–picture the entrance to a NTTA road that is tag-only. What does the sign say? "TollTag required"? Even if TxTag is exactly the same thing, there will be people who didn't get the memo. "TollTag, TxTag, [whatever the third one is] required" is too wordy. Plus then you have the added expense of maintaining three different designs of stickers for no reason other than to make NTTA feel good about itself.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Bobby5280

I see the different toll road authorities and the turnpikes, toll bridges, etc. they control as being similar in principal to different retail stores. My OTA PikePass shouldn't be any different in principal than using a Visa card to make a purchase at different retail stores. The toll booth can see my PikePass, its account number, etc. and match that to the road I'm using and have the toll go to the right parties. It shouldn't matter if there is only 1 toll road authority in Texas or 1000 of them. All they have to do is communicate among each other to reach a common sense solution to let technology work like it should.

I don't see any excuse for any politicians or toll road agencies to stand in the way of this kind of effort to make various RFID toll tags compatible with toll roads nationwide. This is basic customer service. Having one toll tag that worked everywhere would be far more convenient. The various toll road agencies would have an easier time signing up drivers. It would remove one of the hang ups drivers have about getting a particular toll tag.

vdeane

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2014, 04:12:04 AM
Multiple brands for something that is exactly the same is apt to be confusing–picture the entrance to a NTTA road that is tag-only. What does the sign say? "TollTag required"? Even if TxTag is exactly the same thing, there will be people who didn't get the memo. "TollTag, TxTag, [whatever the third one is] required" is too wordy. Plus then you have the added expense of maintaining three different designs of stickers for no reason other than to make NTTA feel good about itself.
They could make it like E-ZPass, with everything being the same transponder, but associated with the individual agencies.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

rte66man

Quote from: RBBrittain on July 12, 2014, 01:16:56 AM
It says nothing about interoperability between Pikepass and non-NTTA Texas tags (TxTag, EZ TAG).......

When I was in Houston last week, I had the chance to travel I-10 at TX99 in Katy.  The signs for the tolled portion all had 3 toll symbols.  The only one I knew was the Black "T" for NTTA.

My questions is: If the NTTA tag is accepted on Grand Parkway and my OK Pikepass is accepted by NTTA, then won't my Pikepass be accepted on Grand Parkway?
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

wxfree

Quote from: rte66man on July 15, 2014, 09:37:10 PM
Quote from: RBBrittain on July 12, 2014, 01:16:56 AM
It says nothing about interoperability between Pikepass and non-NTTA Texas tags (TxTag, EZ TAG).......

When I was in Houston last week, I had the chance to travel I-10 at TX99 in Katy.  The signs for the tolled portion all had 3 toll symbols.  The only one I knew was the Black "T" for NTTA.

My questions is: If the NTTA tag is accepted on Grand Parkway and my OK Pikepass is accepted by NTTA, then won't my Pikepass be accepted on Grand Parkway?

No.  PikePass transactions would not go through NTTA; they would go directly to OTA.  TxDOT and Harris County Toll Road Authority do not have arrangements with OTA.  Similarly, if Oklahoma and Kansas become interoperable, that won't automatically extend TollTag into Kansas.  This is why I don't think the piecemeal approach should extend beyond DFW, which is closest to Oklahoma.  It's potentially confusing.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

DevalDragon

I have a K Tag, PikePass, TxTag, Sunpass and EZ Pass on the windshield of my van. What should I do? LOL...

Bobby5280

In the case of PikePass and NTTA tags, you can have only one of them on your vehicle otherwise the accounts for both tags might be billed.

wxfree

Quote from: DevalDragon on July 15, 2014, 11:16:42 PM
I have a K Tag, PikePass, TxTag, Sunpass and EZ Pass on the windshield of my van. What should I do? LOL...

It sounds like you're doing fine; just keep driving.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

SteveG1988

This will help the trucking industry out, the trucks at the company I am training at have all but sunpass in their trucks. It makes for a cluttered windshield to have so many.

Personally i would either have EzPass become the standard, or upgrade EzPass to where it uses the same tech as all the others. Since it seems EzPass uses a more active system, this would allow them to put a new generation in for the devices. There would be a phase in period where both the original battery operated EzPass would be still allowed, perhaps indefinitely in the original EzPass area, and the new one would be issued, and made interoperable with all the others on some level. if drivers would require tolls to be paid in the PikePass/SunPass/TxTag area then they would request in advance a new model, turning in their current one. Have an exchange period as well, Where people can bring their old one in, and get a new one in moments, with them switching the data from one transponder to another.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Brandon

Quote from: vdeane on July 15, 2014, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2014, 04:12:04 AM
Multiple brands for something that is exactly the same is apt to be confusing–picture the entrance to a NTTA road that is tag-only. What does the sign say? "TollTag required"? Even if TxTag is exactly the same thing, there will be people who didn't get the memo. "TollTag, TxTag, [whatever the third one is] required" is too wordy. Plus then you have the added expense of maintaining three different designs of stickers for no reason other than to make NTTA feel good about itself.
They could make it like E-ZPass, with everything being the same transponder, but associated with the individual agencies.

Hell, they could even keep their own branding with E-Z Pass (like ISTHA has with I-Pass).

Of course, in a perfect world, all of these toll agencies would join E-Z Pass.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Scott5114

I would like to see KTA, OTA, and the TX toll authorities form a plains-states IAG and transition to a EZ-Pass-like setup, where the tags are the same. (Arkansas could potentially join in if they end up building parts of I-49 or I-69 as toll roads.) Once that is done, it would be easier to transition the whole basket of toll tags to EZ-Pass if that was ever on the table.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

DevalDragon

This is exactly what I'm worried about - double billing. Right now, OTC and KTA require transponders, Texas seems to work fine with the pay by plate billed to my TxTag account. When OTC and KTA work together, I'll probably take the Kansas Tag off and just keep OTC, and take the TxTag off because it doesn't seem to be needed.

One thing I noticed with the TxTag is has to match the license plate or it won't work. TxTag gave me 2 stickers for cars, and I installed them on the wrong cars. Neither have worked and both pay by plate. I could call and get them swapped, but since pay by plate is the same rate as TxTag (for registered cars) it seems like too much trouble.

Also, I've noticed that sometimes they don't read at all - but Pay by Plate catches it. EzPass is much more reliable in this regard.

If they want more users, they should just go EzPass. It would make everything much easier.

EDIT: It appears I get a discount on TxTAG roads, but not in NTTA country without the actual TxTag.


Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 16, 2014, 12:34:45 AM
In the case of PikePass and NTTA tags, you can have only one of them on your vehicle otherwise the accounts for both tags might be billed.

wxfree

Oh, yeah, I didn't realize that before; having a TxTag and a PikePass could result in double billing on NTTA roads.  There may be a check in place to prevent it.  To be sure, you could cancel both of those and get a TollTag, which would cover you everywhere in Texas and Oklahoma (starting August 10).
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

dfwmapper

Quote from: Bobby5280 on July 16, 2014, 12:34:45 AM
In the case of PikePass and NTTA tags, you can have only one of them on your vehicle otherwise the accounts for both tags might be billed.
Sorry to bump an oldish thread here, but this problem was solved long before this ever went into effect, at least for TollTag users. You can log in to the NTTA website and go to User Preferences, and opt out of any of the 5 current partners (HCTRA, DFW Airport, Love Field, TxTag, and PikePass). Presumably TxTag and HCTRA offer similar options in their customer service page, though I don't have any way to check that.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.