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One tag states

Started by roadman65, July 18, 2015, 03:29:11 PM

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jeffandnicole

#25
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 19, 2015, 01:11:57 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 18, 2015, 04:21:23 PM
 

Maroon: State requires both front and rear plates for passenger vehicles.
Blue: State requires only rear plate for passenger vehicles.   
Fuchsia: State requires front and rear plate for most, but not all, passenger vehicles.
Pennsylvania is sort of wrong. You can have a front and back plate, but if you're a resident who moved and lived in Pennsylvania, you need a back plate. If you moved and now lived in Pennsylvania, from anywhere, you can use a front plate of the state you last lived in required a front plate  or you have a random plate sticking around, you can use it as a front plate.
To clarify, if you lived in Pennsylvania, all you need is a back plate, but if you have an extra plate, you can have a front plate too.

To further clarify: No.

You can have a souvenir plate as a front plate, but you don't want to use a formerly valid plate as a front plate. In most cases, those plates are supposed to be turned in or destroyed. If your displaying that plate, it could show up as invalid on a police tag scanner. And that can mean legal trouble.

Besides, what if I moved from a state which just required a rear plate? Under your examples, what would stop me from making it a front plate in PA?

Displaying a fake or invalid front tag in a state that only requires a rear tag doesn't make that state an either/or state.


02 Park Ave

On some brands, e.g. Chevy Cruz, the front license plate mounting bracket is an option when you buy it new.
C-o-H

DaBigE

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on July 19, 2015, 04:49:10 PM
On some brands, e.g. Chevy Cruz, the front license plate mounting bracket is an option when you buy it new.

I love when the new car window sticker lists that as one of the included features. Makes it sound like the consumer is getting something extra when it's just required equipment. :rolleyes:
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

noelbotevera

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2015, 01:22:11 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 19, 2015, 01:11:57 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 18, 2015, 04:21:23 PM
 

Maroon: State requires both front and rear plates for passenger vehicles.
Blue: State requires only rear plate for passenger vehicles.   
Fuchsia: State requires front and rear plate for most, but not all, passenger vehicles.
Pennsylvania is sort of wrong. You can have a front and back plate, but if you're a resident who moved and lived in Pennsylvania, you need a back plate. If you moved and now lived in Pennsylvania, from anywhere, you can use a front plate of the state you last lived in required a front plate  or you have a random plate sticking around, you can use it as a front plate.
To clarify, if you lived in Pennsylvania, all you need is a back plate, but if you have an extra plate, you can have a front plate too.

To further clarify: No.

You can have a souvenir plate as a front plate, but you don't want to use a formerly valid plate as a front plate. In most cases, those plates are supposed to be turned in or destroyed. If your displaying that plate, it could show up as invalid on a police tag scanner. And that can mean legal trouble.

Besides, what if I moved from a state which just required a rear plate? Under your examples, what would stop me from making it a front plate in PA?

Displaying a fake or invalid front tag in a state that only requires a rear tag doesn't make that state an either/or state.
If it was formerly valid, then yes, that is illegal. But if you want a front plate for your car, and you aren't at risk of being fined or stuff like that, then you can go ahead and stick a front plate when you're in PA.
Pleased to meet you
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Pink Jazz

I know in Arizona if you order a personalized plate, two plates will be issued, however, you are still not required to display the front plate.

Purgatory On Wheels

Quote from: SP Cook on July 19, 2015, 06:20:30 AM
The "fuchsia" status of Nevada is misleading, as the exception is: "Front plates are optional only if 1) the vehicle was not designed for a front plate and 2) the manufacturer did not provide an add-on bracket or other means of displaying the front plate. (NRS 482.275) " which, since any car sold in Nevada is obviously also for sale in two plate states, would be no car made, at least since plates were standardized 70 years ago, if not ever.

Actually, such cars do exist.  I bought a car when I lived in a 1-tag state, and it had no place to mount a plate on the front bumper.  When I moved to a state that required front plates, I had to buy a bracket from an auto parts store.

The Nature Boy

Quote from: Purgatory On Wheels on July 19, 2015, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on July 19, 2015, 06:20:30 AM
The "fuchsia" status of Nevada is misleading, as the exception is: "Front plates are optional only if 1) the vehicle was not designed for a front plate and 2) the manufacturer did not provide an add-on bracket or other means of displaying the front plate. (NRS 482.275) " which, since any car sold in Nevada is obviously also for sale in two plate states, would be no car made, at least since plates were standardized 70 years ago, if not ever.

Actually, such cars do exist.  I bought a car when I lived in a 1-tag state, and it had no place to mount a plate on the front bumper.  When I moved to a state that required front plates, I had to buy a bracket from an auto parts store.

I bought a Subaru in a one-plate state and it didn't come with a front plate mount so I had to ask the dealership to put one on for me. They don't come off the lot like that in a one-plate state because it's not needed, if I had bought the car in a two plate state then it would have. Most cars can have a front plate bracket mounted on and the bumpers are designed to bare the load. When most of the country lives in two plate states and the largest metros in the country are in two plate states, it's rare that you'll find a car that wouldn't be designed for that.

cpzilliacus

IMO, rear-tag-only on most motor vehicles is an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" (because tags are cheap, last many years and having one front and rear helps with vehicle identification for law enforcement and other purposes (such as all-electronic toll collection)) with the exception of a three distinct types of vehicles:

- Motorcycles;
- Truck tractors; and
- Certain types of "special mobile equipment" that are sometimes registered even though they tend to mostly work off of the highway system (backhoes, Gradalls, wheel loaders and some farm tractors being examples).

Motorcycles do not really have the ability to have a front tag displayed, and truck tractors generally have a trailer attached behind, so it is difficult or impossible to read a tag mounted there, so better to just have one on the front.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

SidS1045

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on July 18, 2015, 10:00:27 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 18, 2015, 08:25:58 PM
Clarification on Massachusetts: The older license plates are the ones that are one plate only.

When did this start? :hmmm:

With the last general issue series (green-on-white), beginning in 1977.  Only one plate in that series was issued per vehicle (except for commercial vehicles and taxis).  Effective with the current series ("The Spirit of America," phased in between 1987 and 1993), two plates were issued.  The law in MA states that you must display the number of plates you were last issued.  If you've got a green-on-white and it becomes unusable (destroyed, lost, illegible), they will not re-issue it and you have to switch over to two plates in the current series.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

golden eagle

Though it may not seem logical, do stores in two-tag states sell souvenir plates that people put on the front?

SP Cook

Quote from: Purgatory On Wheels on July 19, 2015, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on July 19, 2015, 06:20:30 AM
The "fuchsia" status of Nevada is misleading, as the exception is: "Front plates are optional only if 1) the vehicle was not designed for a front plate and 2) the manufacturer did not provide an add-on bracket or other means of displaying the front plate. (NRS 482.275) " which, since any car sold in Nevada is obviously also for sale in two plate states, would be no car made, at least since plates were standardized 70 years ago, if not ever.

Actually, such cars do exist.  I bought a car when I lived in a 1-tag state, and it had no place to mount a plate on the front bumper.  When I moved to a state that required front plates, I had to buy a bracket from an auto parts store.

That would not meet the exception.  The manufacturer does provide such a bracket and you could have bought one (probably at a dealer part's counter confiscatory price) from the dealer.  Just as, had you rearended somebody, you would have to buy a new bumper, and front bracket.  If you look closely a the bumper of any one-plate state car, you will see tiny pilot holes to show you where to put on the front plate or its holder.

SP Cook

Quote from: DaBigE on July 19, 2015, 04:55:17 PM

I love when the new car window sticker lists that as one of the included features. Makes it sound like the consumer is getting something extra when it's just required equipment. :rolleyes:

Stickers do contain a lot of hype and misinformation, but some brands do require the dealer to actually order the front plate holder as a zero dollar option.  Toyota does that.  One of our local dealers does, which means it comes in a bag in the trunk.  Another doesn't.  Bought a car thee one time and the guy asked me if I wanted a front plate (so I could put some kind of novelty plate on).  Told him no.  So he gave me a coupon that entitled me to a free front plate holder if I ever sold it out of state from his parts desk.


1995hoo

Quote from: golden eagle on July 19, 2015, 11:32:41 PM
Though it may not seem logical, do stores in two-tag states sell souvenir plates that people put on the front?

I've seen them for sale in Virginia. I couldn't tell you whether most or all auto parts stores sell them, of course. Places like, say, college bookstores sell them in part because there are plenty of students and visitors who hail from single-plate states.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: golden eagle on July 19, 2015, 11:32:41 PM
Though it may not seem logical, do stores in two-tag states sell souvenir plates that people put on the front?

Yep.  See them all the time in Jersey.  You would think that places such as the Jersey Shore would sell them as people could take them back to their own one-tag state, but you're just as likely to find them in a mall variety store or Pep Boys as well.  And it doesn't really matter what state you may be from: One could find a Phillies tag (PA is a 1 tag state) just as likely as they'll find a Yankees tag (NY is a 2 tag state).

froggie

QuoteThough it may not seem logical, do stores in two-tag states sell souvenir plates that people put on the front?

There's a special case in Vermont, but it's the state and not a store.  After Irene flooded half the state, the Legislature authorized a special "I Am Vermont Strong" front plate to help fund rebuilding efforts.  This plate goes on the front in lieu of the normal front license plate, which everyone is required to have otherwise.

Last year, the Legislature authorized an extension on the I Am Vermont Strong plates, so drivers can display them through 2016.

hbelkins

I bought a car years ago that had to be swapped out with a dealer in Missouri. Missouri's a two-plate state; Kentucky only requires a rear plate. The car came with a front plate bracket attached, whereas it wouldn't have had one if I had bought a car that was already on the lot in Kentucky.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: golden eagle on July 19, 2015, 11:32:41 PM
Though it may not seem logical, do stores in two-tag states sell souvenir plates that people put on the front?
[/quote

Never seen one, though I have seen people attach some other kind of tag above or below the state-issued tag (only works on some vehicles).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

PHLBOS

#42
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 19, 2015, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on July 18, 2015, 10:00:27 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 18, 2015, 08:25:58 PM
Clarification on Massachusetts: The older license plates are the ones that are one plate only.

When did this start? :hmmm:

With the last general issue series (green-on-white), beginning in 1977.  Only one plate in that series was issued per vehicle (except for commercial vehicles and taxis).  Effective with the current series ("The Spirit of America," phased in between 1987 and 1993), two plates were issued.  The law in MA states that you must display the number of plates you were last issued.  If you've got a green-on-white and it becomes unusable (destroyed, lost, illegible), they will not re-issue it and you have to switch over to two plates in the current series.
Side bar to the above:

Prior to the 1977-era green-on-white plates; MA was a front-and-rear plate state and the plates themselves were changed every 4 years. 

Due to the RMV having a surplus of the old red-on-white (with MASSACHUSETTS embossed on the bottom) plates in the mid-70s; the new rear-plate-only green-on-white were initially only issued to new registrations only.  Those with existing red-on-white plates got new red-on-white plates (with different registration numbers) instead until supplies were exhausted.  Those new red-on-white plates would be phased out by the early-to-mid 80s (in favor of the rear-only green-on-white plate).

When the current, borderless Spirit of America design was introduced in 1987; it was a multi-year phase-in.  All commerical plates got them first (the word COMMERCIAL was embossed in red and located on the bottom where the stickered blue Spirit of America would later appear on non-coimmerical plates).  In the following year, all vanity plates received the new design.  By the third year, 1989, new registrations started receiving the new front-and-rear required plates.  Similar to what happened a decade earlier; the RMV still had a suplus of the old green-on-white plates laying around.  As a result, depending on which RMV office one went to; one could still get a single green-on-white plate into the early 1990s.  My mother's current green-on-white plate for her car dates back to 1992.

The guessed reasoning for the rear-only design may have been cost-related.  The reason for it changing back to front-and-rear plates was probably due to complaints from law enforcement not being able to see the rear plate in some situations.  Example: If one drove a station wagon (such existed back then) with the tailgate open (to carry bulky cargo) and the plate was mounted on the tailgate, as opposed to the rear bumper; nobody would be able to see the rear license plate.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman

#43
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 19, 2015, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on July 18, 2015, 10:00:27 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 18, 2015, 08:25:58 PM
Clarification on Massachusetts: The older license plates are the ones that are one plate only.

When did this start? :hmmm:

With the last general issue series (green-on-white), beginning in 1977.  Only one plate in that series was issued per vehicle (except for commercial vehicles and taxis).  Effective with the current series ("The Spirit of America," phased in between 1987 and 1993), two plates were issued.  The law in MA states that you must display the number of plates you were last issued.  If you've got a green-on-white and it becomes unusable (destroyed, lost, illegible), they will not re-issue it and you have to switch over to two plates in the current series.

The only problem with that requirement to change plates is that they will not issue you new dual "Spirit of America" plates with your current registration number on them.  If they allowed you to keep your current number when upgrading plates, even if they charged a one-time fee to do so, I suspect they would get many more people to turn in their old plates.  And letting you keep your old number is not that difficult to do, as many other states have demonstrated.  Had an uncle in New Hampshire that, when he died in 1993, still had his original registration number from the late 1940s on current issue plates, even though NH had changed the plate style several times.

Note that the "Spirit of America" plates were introduced on vanity plates in 1987, but were not issued in the general number series until 1989 (I bought my first car in late 1987, and was given a single white on green plate when I registered the vehicle).
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 19, 2015, 11:05:08 PMWith the last general issue series (green-on-white), beginning in 1977.  Only one plate in that series was issued per vehicle (except for commercial vehicles and taxis).  Effective with the current series ("The Spirit of America," phased in between 1987 and 1993), two plates were issued.  The law in MA states that you must display the number of plates you were last issued.  If you've got a green-on-white and it becomes unusable (destroyed, lost, illegible), they will not re-issue it and you have to switch over to two plates in the current series.
The only problem with that requirement to change plates is that they will not issue you new dual "Spirit of America" plates with your current registration number on them.
I personally don't believe that SidS1045 was implying that one's registration number would remain unchanged if one got a new plate. 

In the past, whenever MA changed plates and/or colors (vanity and low-number plates excluded); the registration number always changed.

Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 01:46:16 PMIf they allowed you to keep your current number when upgrading plates, even if they charged a one-time fee to do so, I suspect they would get many more people to turn in their old plates.  And letting you keep your old number is not that difficult to do, as many other states have demonstrated.  Had an uncle in New Hampshire that, when he died in 1993, still had his original registration number from the late 1940s on current issue plates, even though NH had changed the plate style several times.
Interesting... what other states allow for such?  When PA ordered that all existing standard plates (excluding designer/charity plates) be changed over to one uniform design in 2000 (there were three designs in active use at the time); the registration numbers (except vanity plates) did not carry-over.

Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 01:46:16 PMNote that the "Spirit of America" plates were introduced on vanity plates in 1987, but were not issued in the general number series until 1989 (I bought my first car in late 1987, and was given a single white on green plate when I registered the vehicle).
See my previous post; the commerical plates got the new/current design first (1987) sans the Sprirt of America markings; then the vanity plates a year later (1988), then general registrations (back to two plates) a year after that (1989).  And even after that, single, green-on-white plates were still being issued by some RMV offices.  My mother's 1992 green-on-white is proof of such.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

SidS1045

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 20, 2015, 04:33:14 PM
In the past, whenever MA changed plates and/or colors (vanity and low-number plates excluded); the registration number always changed.

Unless, of course, you knew someone.  A person who used to live near me in Wakefield, near the Stoneham line, used to get the plate 111111 every time the plates changed, and that's not (in theory) a reserved or vanity number.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

PHLBOS

Quote from: SidS1045 on July 20, 2015, 04:42:17 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 20, 2015, 04:33:14 PM
In the past, whenever MA changed plates and/or colors (vanity and low-number plates excluded); the registration number always changed.

Unless, of course, you knew someone.  A person who used to live near me in Wakefield, near the Stoneham line, used to get the plate 111111 every time the plates changed, and that's not (in theory) a reserved or vanity number.
Given that most standard MA registrations contained a mixture of letters & numbers (the 5-number plates from the 70s and the 6-number regs. from the mid-80s being the exception; my last MA plate (issued in 1985) had such); something tells me that 111111 would likely be considered a vanity or low/special number plate even though it may not have been treated as such.

What year did he receive the current design plate containing the six 1s?  If it was 1988, then it was indeed a vanity plate.  Standard plates bearing the Spirit of America design weren't issued until 1989 at the earliest.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman

Quote from: PHLBOS on July 20, 2015, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 19, 2015, 11:05:08 PMWith the last general issue series (green-on-white), beginning in 1977.  Only one plate in that series was issued per vehicle (except for commercial vehicles and taxis).  Effective with the current series ("The Spirit of America," phased in between 1987 and 1993), two plates were issued.  The law in MA states that you must display the number of plates you were last issued.  If you've got a green-on-white and it becomes unusable (destroyed, lost, illegible), they will not re-issue it and you have to switch over to two plates in the current series.
The only problem with that requirement to change plates is that they will not issue you new dual "Spirit of America" plates with your current registration number on them.
I personally don't believe that SidS1045 was implying that one's registration number would remain unchanged if one got a new plate. 

In the past, whenever MA changed plates and/or colors (vanity and low-number plates excluded); the registration number always changed.

Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 01:46:16 PMIf they allowed you to keep your current number when upgrading plates, even if they charged a one-time fee to do so, I suspect they would get many more people to turn in their old plates.  And letting you keep your old number is not that difficult to do, as many other states have demonstrated.  Had an uncle in New Hampshire that, when he died in 1993, still had his original registration number from the late 1940s on current issue plates, even though NH had changed the plate style several times.
Interesting... what other states allow for such?  When PA ordered that all existing standard plates (excluding designer/charity plates) be changed over to one uniform design in 2000 (there were three designs in active use at the time); the registration numbers (except vanity plates) did not carry-over.

Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 01:46:16 PMNote that the "Spirit of America" plates were introduced on vanity plates in 1987, but were not issued in the general number series until 1989 (I bought my first car in late 1987, and was given a single white on green plate when I registered the vehicle).
See my previous post; the commerical plates got the new/current design first (1987) sans the Sprirt of America markings; then the vanity plates a year later (1988), then general registrations (back to two plates) a year after that (1989).  And even after that, single, green-on-white plates were still being issued by some RMV offices.  My mother's 1992 green-on-white is proof of such.

All correct PHILBOS.  Sorry for the confusion -  I didn't mean to imply that MA ever had the option to retain your number when you were forced to change plates.  However, a number of friends and co-worker have cited the inability to retain your plate number as the reason they have never turned in their green plates.  And I personally know that MA will NOT let you reserve a number/letter combination that's in the standard pool - even for an additional fee.  Before I got my call letter plates, which I transferred over when I bought my Focus, I investigated the possibility of getting a "custom" standard issue plate - 961 SCT (birthdate and initials).  I was quickly told by the RMV - No!  Nor could I get a vanity plate that was reversed (SCT 961), apparently because of some "rule" that vanity plates have to consist of either all letters or all numbers.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

PHLBOS

Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 07:16:16 PMNor could I get a vanity plate that was reversed (SCT 961), apparently because of some "rule" that vanity plates have to consist of either all letters or all numbers.
Interesting; so one can't get a vanity plate that had lists the year and make/model of their car (examples: 98 VW, 02 DTS, 78 LTD, etc.).
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Pink Jazz

I wonder, in one plate states, is it legal to display an expired out-of-state plate on the front of your vehicle?  That may send a confusing message.



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