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Started by mgk920, September 12, 2012, 02:19:57 PM

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hobsini2

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 21, 2017, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: captkirk_4 on June 20, 2017, 09:19:06 AMAnd any US 36 KC bound traffic is going to take the shorter, faster I-55 I-72 over to Hannibal instead of the expensive East West Tollway through Galesburg, etc on non limited access portions that are longer and slower.

There is nothing that says someone cannot shunpike via I-80.  I-55 is also starting to become reliable at having congestion due to the section through Springfield, construction, or backups caused by speed enforcement.

As to IL 336 being a waste, I would like to see the traffic forecasts from the EIS (along with the assumptions for those), plus give it a few more years of traffic growth before jumping to that conclusion.  The counts do indicate it is gaining volume, and may have done so faster were it not for the recession.

Quote from: inkyatari on June 21, 2017, 08:50:12 AM
Quote from: I-39 on June 20, 2017, 07:00:18 PM
. One could even make an argument that I-72 doesn't even need to be a freeway west of Springfield (instead, they could have just made US 36 an expressway).

If Missouri would make a continuation of I-72 to KC, it might get a lot busier, but I don't see MoDOT ever doing that, let alone continuing the corridor straight across .

Based on IDOT's counts, traffic has already started increasing on I-72.  There is certainly the traffic potential with the US 36 expressway across Missouri and the worsening conditions on I-70.  Better that it was built right the first time instead of being built similar to US 51 south of Bloomington and in need of unfunded upgrades.

Honestly, if I am going to KC, I go 80 to 35. Less traffic and seems quicker by an hr.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)


csw

336 does seem unnecessary to me. I drove a few sections of it last weekend and it was virtually empty. I was surprised to see a divided highway in that location for sure

I-39

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 21, 2017, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: captkirk_4 on June 20, 2017, 09:19:06 AMAnd any US 36 KC bound traffic is going to take the shorter, faster I-55 I-72 over to Hannibal instead of the expensive East West Tollway through Galesburg, etc on non limited access portions that are longer and slower.

There is nothing that says someone cannot shunpike via I-80.  I-55 is also starting to become reliable at having congestion due to the section through Springfield, construction, or backups caused by speed enforcement.

As to IL 336 being a waste, I would like to see the traffic forecasts from the EIS (along with the assumptions for those), plus give it a few more years of traffic growth before jumping to that conclusion.  The counts do indicate it is gaining volume, and may have done so faster were it not for the recession.

Quote from: inkyatari on June 21, 2017, 08:50:12 AM
Quote from: I-39 on June 20, 2017, 07:00:18 PM
. One could even make an argument that I-72 doesn't even need to be a freeway west of Springfield (instead, they could have just made US 36 an expressway).

If Missouri would make a continuation of I-72 to KC, it might get a lot busier, but I don't see MoDOT ever doing that, let alone continuing the corridor straight across .

Based on IDOT's counts, traffic has already started increasing on I-72.  There is certainly the traffic potential with the US 36 expressway across Missouri and the worsening conditions on I-70.  Better that it was built right the first time instead of being built similar to US 51 south of Bloomington and in need of unfunded upgrades.

Can you give us some counts on IL-336? I find it hard to believe traffic is truly increasing. 

Also, I see your point on I-72, but the expressway portion of US 36 in Missouri seems to be working (aside from the traffic light just east of I-35). I don't see the Missouri portion of US 36 being upgraded to Interstate standards anytime.

I-39

Quote from: hobsini2 on June 21, 2017, 09:32:55 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 21, 2017, 09:07:14 PM
Quote from: captkirk_4 on June 20, 2017, 09:19:06 AMAnd any US 36 KC bound traffic is going to take the shorter, faster I-55 I-72 over to Hannibal instead of the expensive East West Tollway through Galesburg, etc on non limited access portions that are longer and slower.

There is nothing that says someone cannot shunpike via I-80.  I-55 is also starting to become reliable at having congestion due to the section through Springfield, construction, or backups caused by speed enforcement.

As to IL 336 being a waste, I would like to see the traffic forecasts from the EIS (along with the assumptions for those), plus give it a few more years of traffic growth before jumping to that conclusion.  The counts do indicate it is gaining volume, and may have done so faster were it not for the recession.

Quote from: inkyatari on June 21, 2017, 08:50:12 AM
Quote from: I-39 on June 20, 2017, 07:00:18 PM
. One could even make an argument that I-72 doesn't even need to be a freeway west of Springfield (instead, they could have just made US 36 an expressway).

If Missouri would make a continuation of I-72 to KC, it might get a lot busier, but I don't see MoDOT ever doing that, let alone continuing the corridor straight across .

Based on IDOT's counts, traffic has already started increasing on I-72.  There is certainly the traffic potential with the US 36 expressway across Missouri and the worsening conditions on I-70.  Better that it was built right the first time instead of being built similar to US 51 south of Bloomington and in need of unfunded upgrades.

Honestly, if I am going to KC, I go 80 to 35. Less traffic and seems quicker by an hr.

^ This

I did this a few times. Much better than I-70.

Revive 755

Quote from: hobsini2 on June 21, 2017, 09:32:55 PM
Honestly, if I am going to KC, I go 80 to 35. Less traffic and seems quicker by an hr.

Maybe I'm just good at hitting I-80 on the wrong days (when there is not even a football game in Iowa City), but it is on it's way to becoming as pleasant as I-70 across Missouri.

Quote from: I-39Can you give us some counts on IL-336? I find it hard to believe traffic is truly increasing.

See https://www.gettingaroundillinois.com/gai.htm?mt=aadt and compare some of the current counts against the historic counts (which requires checking the 'Identify Historic Counts' box and then clicking on the current count numbers.

I-39

Quote from: I-39Can you give us some counts on IL-336? I find it hard to believe traffic is truly increasing.
See https://www.gettingaroundillinois.com/gai.htm?mt=aadt and compare some of the current counts against the historic counts (which requires checking the 'Identify Historic Counts' box and then clicking on the current count numbers.
[/quote]

Eh, it's not really increasing dramatically. In fact, in a lot of areas, its fluctuating. Plus, 3000-5000 VPD doesn't really scream the need for four lanes. I'd rather take an all-Interstate route I-55 to I-72/US 36 rather than non-Interstate Illinois 336.

ajlynch91

The 336 number is also a waste, which doesn't say anything about the traffic counts, but it is completely multiplexed with 110...if IDOT wants to use that number for the CKC, fine, if not then they should just decommission it, because it really makes no sense having 336 completely multiplexed with another number for its entire length.

Brandon

Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2017, 10:18:49 AM
The 336 number is also a waste, which doesn't say anything about the traffic counts, but it is completely multiplexed with 110...if IDOT wants to use that number for the CKC, fine, if not then they should just decommission it, because it really makes no sense having 336 completely multiplexed with another number for its entire length.

Actually, IL-336 means something as it used to be a branch off US-36.  It's IL-110 that's a complete and total waste.
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ajlynch91

Except 110 goes on longer in both directions. If you want to decommission that, I have no disagreements since no segment of the road is not multiplexed with another number, but between the two, I would still get rid of 336. That it's a spur of US-36 doesn't really give a whole lot of incentive to keep that number since it really goes nowhere.

sparker

Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2017, 03:25:41 PM
Except 110 goes on longer in both directions. If you want to decommission that, I have no disagreements since no segment of the road is not multiplexed with another number, but between the two, I would still get rid of 336. That it's a spur of US-36 doesn't really give a whole lot of incentive to keep that number since it really goes nowhere.

Just call it IL 172 as a state expressway extension of the Interstate of the same number.  If an existing route needs to be renumbered, so be it.  Whether to continue that number all the way up to I-74 should be a locally-decided matter (or let IDOT tackle that one).  But 110 is a total waste of time and signing cost/effort; it needs to go! 

Revive 755

Per this article flashing yellow arrows are coming to US 150/University Avenue in Champaign-Urbana:  http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2017-06-23/toms-mailbag-june-23-2017.html


paulthemapguy

Quote from: Brandon on June 23, 2017, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2017, 10:18:49 AM
The 336 number is also a waste, which doesn't say anything about the traffic counts, but it is completely multiplexed with 110...if IDOT wants to use that number for the CKC, fine, if not then they should just decommission it, because it really makes no sense having 336 completely multiplexed with another number for its entire length.

Actually, IL-336 means something as it used to be a branch off US-36.  It's IL-110 that's a complete and total waste.

Gonna have to go with Brandon on this one.  IL-110 is a completely useless and extraneous designation.  Its purpose is to serve as a route from Chicago to Kansas City, when it's not even nearly the best route between those two destinations. IL-336 at least clearly defines the expressway section connecting Macomb and Quincy.  The number fits the scheme of US Highways, so if there's any hope of having it upgraded to a US highway, the number of 336 is appropriate.  That's a big "if", though.  If it's destined to always be a state highway, they might as well give it a lower number like the rest of Illinois's highways--110 would work for that, actually!
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silverback1065

why does there need to be a freeway between kc and chicago at all?  isn't what's already there good enough? 

sparker

Quote from: silverback1065 on June 23, 2017, 10:46:12 PM
why does there need to be a freeway between kc and chicago at all?  isn't what's already there good enough? 

The whole CKC/"110" concept was devised by interests in W. Illinois primarily to call attention to their region and direct developmental dollars toward that region.  Part of their strategy was to re-direct Chicago-to-KC traffic -- particularly of the commercial variety -- to the corridor passing through the midst of the area; hence the continuous "110" number between the termini.  IMO the concept is misguided -- although the corridor is now essentially a through 4-lane route thanks to the  Macomb (IL) bypass -- no trucker with a working GPS or the ability to read a map will seriously consider using a grid-pattern right-angled route across western Illinois -- especially one that involves the I-88 toll road -- when there are plenty of more direct and less costly alternatives.  I-80 to I-35 is the most obvious; and if St. Louis avoidance is desired and something a bit more direct than a Des Moines routing is also sought, I-55/I-72/US 36/I-35 works just fine, and is about 25 miles less distance than a "110"-based route.  This is one of those well-meaning (at least in terms of trying to "boost" the standing of one's local region) but misbegotten concepts that begs the question "what were they thinking? (or smoking!?)"   

SEWIGuy

All those concepts (like "Avenue of the Saints") are sold as better routes between two cities but are largely an excuse to build up highways in areas without them.  Really how many people drive between St. Louis and St. Paul, or between Chicago and KC, on a regular basis?  Relatively few. 

dvferyance

Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2017, 03:25:41 PM
Except 110 goes on longer in both directions. If you want to decommission that, I have no disagreements since no segment of the road is not multiplexed with another number, but between the two, I would still get rid of 336. That it's a spur of US-36 doesn't really give a whole lot of incentive to keep that number since it really goes nowhere.
IL-110 is duplexed with another highway it's entire route. Nobody cares about it nobody follows it. I am surprised it hasn't been done away with as is.

GeekJedi

Quote from: dvferyance on June 24, 2017, 09:46:10 AM
Nobody cares about it nobody follows it.

Apparently these people didn't get the memo about "not caring" (Yes, it's a useless route, and it probably won't move the needle, but they're trying):

""This is wonderful news. This allows us to start advertising the CKC as a national corridor," said Pat Poepping, a Quincy engineer and a member of the summit's steering committee."

"Thomas A. Oakley, a member of the summit's Transportation Task Force, said regional efforts first started promoting construction of the CKC in 1957. Illinois highways comprising the route were finished in 2008, and the Missouri portion was completed in 2010. Oakley said the summit is thrilled that the Macomb bypass project has finally started.

With the CKC logo and Route 110 signs on every route marker between downtown Chicago and downtown Kansas City, Oakley said communities along the CKC will be able to promote their location on the CKC."

"Even along Highway 36 there's other sections that overlap top of 36," said Kevin James, the Assistant District Engineer with MoDot. "The adding of Highway 110 and CKC is for a longer section but something to be used as a tool to promote economic development.""

"Dixon Mayor Jim Burke hopes a new route that passes through town will mean a big boost to local tourism across the Sauk Valley."

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dvferyance

IL-110 has been around for like 6 years now. Has it done anything to promote tourism? Has anyone benefited from it?

GeekJedi

Quote from: dvferyance on June 24, 2017, 12:41:15 PM
IL-110 has been around for like 6 years now. Has it done anything to promote tourism? Has anyone benefited from it?

I don't know, but at this point does it matter? It's paid for, the towns that it runs through are happy about that, and life goes on. I don't think removing the route benefits anyone at this point (and also has a cost attached to it).
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

I-39

Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.

silverback1065

isn't 110 just stitched together existing routes across illinois? 

sparker

Quote from: silverback1065 on June 24, 2017, 07:36:46 PM
isn't 110 just stitched together existing routes across illinois? 

yes.....AND Missouri.  Two states with unnecessary signage costs.

silverback1065

the only thing that makes that route interesting is the ckc sign

ajlynch91

It is pointless because of the fact that it overlaps roads completely across Illinois and Missouri. Removing 336 would add some legitimacy to the route, but not much. My point in favoring the 110 over 336, as stated before, is that 336 is also relatively pointless, as its only going to be going from Quincy to Peoria, and in the case of two pointless routes, I'd take the longer one with the better connections (Chicago to Kansas City) than two very small cities in the middle of nowhere.

But ultimately, both are pointless routes.

sparker

Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 25, 2017, 06:06:13 PM
It is pointless because of the fact that it overlaps roads completely across Illinois and Missouri. Removing 336 would add some legitimacy to the route, but not much. My point in favoring the 110 over 336, as stated before, is that 336 is also relatively pointless, as its only going to be going from Quincy to Peoria, and in the case of two pointless routes, I'd take the longer one with the better connections (Chicago to Kansas City) than two very small cities in the middle of nowhere.

But ultimately, both are pointless routes.

And, as with most pointless routes/corridors, initiated as a result of localized ego, localized resentment, or a combination of both.  West-central Illinois doesn't get a lot of attention because it doesn't contain sizeable population centers and/or tourist attractions, not because of purposeful ignorance.  It is intrinsically valuable as what it is -- farmland with intervening towns -- but barring some unforeseen set of circumstances, it'll never attract the type of development that characterizes larger cities and suburbs.  Perhaps the CKC will attract a couple of truck stop facilities and a few Hardee's somewhere along its length -- but that's about it!  If the corridor's "cheerleaders" are looking for much more, all that can be said is "be careful what you wish for"!  Attracting "development" to one's area is the proverbial double-edged sword.  Besides, all but the Quincy-Galesburg segment of the CKC is along facilities that have been multi-lane for quite some time; commercial enhancements geared toward the "pass-through" trade are likely already there.  One of the aspects of commercial roadside service provisions such as fast-food outlets, convenience stores/gas stations, etc. is that they're expected, for the most part, by both franchise suppliers and franchise holders to do "double-duty" by not only serving traffic on the expressway/freeway facility where they're located -- but also to attract business from local residents -- which is why most of these are located in small (2K-10K) towns along the route rather than at rural interchanges surrounded by largely unpopulated fields.  Unless the CKC/110 can (unexpectedly) siphon extraordinary levels of traffic away from the existing main routes between its named end points, the chances are that the roadside facilities that are already existing along US 34 and US 67 from Monmouth to Macomb are more than sufficient to handle what through traffic it will get.  And the (relatively) "new-terrain" section from Macomb to Quincy:  except for the largely-bypassed Carthage, there's not much opportunity for road-service development there due to the lack of potential for local usage; 110/336 will remain a set of lanes through the fields with occasional undeveloped interchanges a la the typical upper-Midwest expressway arrangement.  The west-central IL area in question here is too far from any metro employment to serve as exurbs -- so unless the developmental goals include warehousing or distribution centers (unlikely for a state-signed expressway), a few select "pass-through" facilities are likely to constitute the maximum of what can be expected -- which underscores the pointlessness -- and ultimate futility -- of the whole enterprise.       



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