As the title states, what are some of the biggest misconceptions in terms of highways/interstates in your state and where they go? For my current home in North Carolina, a pretty big misconception in my region is that I-77 was supposed to be routed up US-21 through Sparta and Speedwell, Virginia en route to Wytheville. And for my future home state of Georgia, a pretty big one is that of I-75 being routed through Rome on the way to Chattanooga.
(Mod note: If this fits better in Fictional Highways, feel free to move it there)
With California the perception is that most of the state is one giant freeway strewn urban area. The reality is that most people live in the big urban areas where the bulk of the freeways are but much of the state is rural with a huge assortment of back roads. My brother in law in particular was taken aback by how much farming and ranching there is in the Central Valley when he visited California for the first time in 2019. CA 46 and CA 1 in the Santa Lucia Mountains were hits during his visit.
In MN, that the stub of today's TH 169 east of Ely was intended to be part of a cancelled through road in the Boundary Waters connecting to the dead end of the modern Gunflint Trail. The proposal had long died before that piece of road was designated as TH 221 for its first few years of existence, and the ROW for the planned road had also long reverted to protected wilderness status.
For California, my first thought is that whole saga over US 66's historic western endpoint changes (mostly these days in online road discussion groups on FB), where while people knew that it ended in LA at one point and eventually Santa Monica, there are still myths floating out there over the pre-Santa Monica routing that have already been contradicted by actual documentation.
NJ Turnpike = I-95 for its entire length.
The vast majority of California is rural and thus most of the state highways reflect this. Most state highways outside of the Bay Area, Los Angeles, and San Diego are not freeways. Most are in fact two lanes wide.
Likewise, since 1964, the idea that odd numbers = north-south highway and even numbers = east-west highway has been largely abandoned. It might be a guideline but is not a rule.
The 1964 highway renumbering was a massive sea change. In truth, most of the original state highways didn't see much change. There were some truncations here and there, but north of Sacramento, almost all of the original 1934 state highways are still in place and didn't change. The '64 renumbering gave numbers to most existing named highways, and greatly cut down on concurrencies. But comparing 1963 to 1964, there really aren't as many massive changes as it sometimes believed.
For Massachusetts, the first 7 miles of I-93 are still MA 128. People in TV media younger than the age of its deletion from there even call it this.
Maybe for Colorado is that I-70 is the only way to get to the mountains? Or at least touristy stuff? I probably end up taking US285 more often when I go to the high country.
Quote from: TheStranger on May 02, 2023, 03:50:42 PM
For California, my first thought is that whole saga over US 66's historic western endpoint changes (mostly these days in online road discussion groups on FB), where while people knew that it ended in LA at one point and eventually Santa Monica, there are still myths floating out there over the pre-Santa Monica routing that have already been contradicted by actual documentation.
What gets me is that the old guard who perpetuated a lot of the early assumptions about where US 66 ended want to hold onto the disproven narrative. 7th Street and Broadway as the initial terminus US 66 based on the assumption it completely overlaid the National Old Trails Road. Turns out that it wasn't and there was a treasure trove of information waiting in places like the AASHTO database to be unlocked. To me, finding and sharing new evidence showing that 66 wasn't even signed in Los Angeles until 1931 was exciting. I guess that wasn't so much the case for the dudes who put out books a couple decades ago with now outdated info.
In Québec, it's most definitely QC 372's routing. Whether it follows the shoreline or goes into Saguenay is unclear.
In GA it's probably the general public not recognizing US 19 as an overlap on SR 400. And in general, people here think that US 19 refers to the road that it used to be on before 400 was built (similar for other newer routes such as US 29 and SR 316).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2023, 03:41:02 PM
With California the perception is that most of the state is one giant freeway strewn urban area. The reality is that most people live in the big urban areas where the bulk of the freeways are but much of the state is rural with a huge assortment of back roads.
Pretty much applies to most states with a dominant city/set of cities. Turns out not all of Washington is Seattle and not all of Oregon is Portland.
That "Alt 7" still exists (NY).
The Crosstown Expressway in Chicago was planned to connect to an upgraded Lake Shore Drive via I-494. In reality, while both expressways were indeed designated as I-494, no connection was ever considered, and when the designation was used exclusively for the Crosstown, that was the beginning of the end for the LSD freeway plans.
Not my state, but everytime I come back from a vacation in Alaska, I always get two questions:
Are the highways paved, or it's all just empty dirt roads?
How do you get gas? Do you have to carry spare canisters?
A lot of people have their mind blown when I tell them Alaska highways are paved (for the most part), with only unpaved segments in very remote parts of the state that are not big tourist destinations. And that gas stations are readily available, and that most modern cars have zero issues going 100+ miles between stations at the most.
I think this misconception that the Alaska highways are still super primitive unpaved trails might be because they see the Dalton Highway and assume all the highways are like that. (And even Dalton Highway has key stopping points that make it unlikely anyone would truly run out of fuel).
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options? If so do people ever get caught with not enough gas bc they couldn't afford it...
Quote from: ran4sh on May 03, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options? If so do people ever get caught with not enough gas bc they couldn't afford it...
The gas prices in Alaska weren't much higher than anywhere else. The two stations in Healy, which is just outside Denali Nat'l Park and pretty much the only real shot for a full-service sort of pace (gas, mini mart) between roughly Wasilla and Fairbanks on the Parks Highway, charged as much as I paid in Fairbanks.
Quote from: ran4sh on May 03, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options? If so do people ever get caught with not enough gas bc they couldn't afford it...
1) Yes
2) If you can't afford it, then there's no reason to be on the Dalton. It's for truckers and tourists that can afford the trip.
Quote from: Quillz on May 03, 2023, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on May 03, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options? If so do people ever get caught with not enough gas bc they couldn't afford it...
The gas prices in Alaska weren't much higher than anywhere else. The two stations in Healy, which is just outside Denali Nat'l Park and pretty much the only real shot for a full-service sort of pace (gas, mini mart) between roughly Wasilla and Fairbanks on the Parks Highway, charged as much as I paid in Fairbanks.
There were actually more gas stations than I thought there would be on the Parks. We stayed at an Airbnb just outside of Cantwell (intersection of the Parks and the Denali Highway) and the gas station there had both laundry and shower facilities. The showers were particularly nice as our Airbnb was a glamping situation without running water.
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2023, 04:18:27 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on May 03, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options? If so do people ever get caught with not enough gas bc they couldn't afford it...
1) Yes
2) If you can't afford it, then there's no reason to be on the Dalton. It's for truckers and tourists that can afford the trip.
It should also be noted most tourists aren't taking their own cars. Most will just rent a car from a company and they always give you extra gas anyway. (As well as some other stuff). I still haven't done it beyond the Arctic Circle but I plan to next winter. Really a pretty easy drive, just gotta yield to truckers. Was far less imposing than I was led to believe.
Quote from: Quillz on May 03, 2023, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2023, 04:18:27 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on May 03, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options? If so do people ever get caught with not enough gas bc they couldn't afford it...
1) Yes
2) If you can't afford it, then there's no reason to be on the Dalton. It's for truckers and tourists that can afford the trip.
It should also be noted most tourists aren't taking their own cars. Most will just rent a car from a company and they always give you extra gas anyway. (As well as some other stuff). I still haven't done it beyond the Arctic Circle but I plan to next winter. Really a pretty easy drive, just gotta yield to truckers. Was far less imposing than I was led to believe.
Good to hear.
Dalton Highway is basically just another remote Alaska highway, with minimal services. Which isn't all that different from the Steese Highway or the Elliot Highway. And frankly, the quality of the highway is in much better shape than the other two I listed. And there is always truck traffic if there is really an emergency. I think it being featured on "World's Most Dangerous Roads" or w/e is what gave it the reputation that it's this super imposing drive, when it's not at all. In fact, it's not even really that interesting of a drive. The scenery is nice but doesn't really change all that much. The drive from the start to the Brooks Range has some cool stuff, but then you reach the North Slope and it's just a swampy shrubland, strangely not that different from Mojave Desert scenery.
Maybe that is what led to the misconception that Alaska highways are nothing more than two-lane dirt trails.
Quote from: ran4sh on May 03, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
That's another thing I've always wondered - when there's only 1 or a few gas stations for that long of a distance, are the prices higher because of the lack of other options?
Prices are set by the intersection of supply and demand curves. The supply curve is shifted left due to logistics and the demand curve is probabally shifted right some due to fear of running out, etc.
There is also some element to a situation like that which is a result of market structure, like a linear city or ice cream vendor on a beach type problem. The sort of thing covered in Industrial Organization courses.
This is a bit of a weird one, but people think that the route of "Michigan Avenue" in the state of Michigan follows US-12. Historically, many towns along US-12 all named the street "Michigan Avenue", but this was along the old US-12 routing that I-94 made obsolete (these towns include Jackson, Albion, Marshall, etc).
US-12 now follows the route of former US-112 (which was named "Chicago Road" in many of the towns it passed through), branching off around the Wayne-Washtenaw County line. However, Ypsilanti and Saline named part of the new routing "Michigan Avenue" as well, adding to the confusion.
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on May 02, 2023, 03:33:01 PM
As the title states, what are some of the biggest misconceptions in terms of highways/interstates in your state and where they go? For my current home in North Carolina, a pretty big misconception in my region is that I-77 was supposed to be routed up US-21 through Sparta and Speedwell, Virginia en route to Wytheville. And for my future home state of Georgia, a pretty big one is that of I-75 being routed through Rome on the way to Chattanooga.
(Mod note: If this fits better in Fictional Highways, feel free to move it there)
Virginia did have I-77 routed further west 1960-65, though not as far as US 21 below Wytheville. It would've crossed into NC where NC 89 is. Virginia re-evaluated after NC approved the eastern path it takes now.
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 04, 2023, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on May 02, 2023, 03:33:01 PM
As the title states, what are some of the biggest misconceptions in terms of highways/interstates in your state and where they go? For my current home in North Carolina, a pretty big misconception in my region is that I-77 was supposed to be routed up US-21 through Sparta and Speedwell, Virginia en route to Wytheville. And for my future home state of Georgia, a pretty big one is that of I-75 being routed through Rome on the way to Chattanooga.
(Mod note: If this fits better in Fictional Highways, feel free to move it there)
Virginia did have I-77 routed further west 1960-65, though not as far as US 21 below Wytheville. It would've crossed into NC where NC 89 is. Virginia re-evaluated after NC approved the eastern path it takes now.
Mhm. I've seen the maps of that routing. An even further west routing going up the mountains to Sparta would have been fun, though
The Highway to Nowhere in Baltimore was supposed to be part of I-70 and not I-170.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 02, 2023, 03:59:00 PM
NJ Turnpike = I-95 for its entire length.
I was BORN in NJ, and for the longest time thought this.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 02, 2023, 05:35:10 PM
Maybe for Colorado is that I-70 is the only way to get to the mountains? Or at least touristy stuff? I probably end up taking US285 more often when I go to the high country.
I don't care for I-70 in the mountains, though that might change since I bought an SUV that's capable of climbing hills faster than 30 mph. Not dissing the Camry, but it's just not great on hills, at least, not the 4-banger version.
We go to Glenwood Springs twice a year, and I avoid a decent chunk of it, using CO 14, US 40, and CO 131. It's a much less frenetic drive, and by the time you hit I-70 at Wolcott, most of the ski drama is well behind you, only the Glenwood Canyon drama is ahead of you.
A minor California example. People who visit from out of state sometimes assume that Pacific Coast Highway is equivalent to CA-1. When they are not. PCH is between Dana Point and Point Mugu, with a short extension just past Ventura. The rest of CA-1 is Cabrillo Highway and Shoreline Highway. This might be because in other states, it's often the case that the highway names match with the highway number. I was recently talking to someone who moved to California from another state and they were talking about how they wanted to drive on Pacific Coast Highway to see the redwoods. (In reality they were referring to the Redwood Highway portion of US-101, CA-1 doesn't even go that far north).
I guess these two could qualify as Washington's "biggest" in terms of how long their highways are: US 2 and I-90 both don't end at I-5 but extend to a state highway a short distance west: SR 529 in Everett and SR 519 in Seattle, respectively.
I-90 was planned to reach SR 99 (when it was still the Alaskan Way Viaduct), hence why the mileposts start at 2.
Quote from: Bruce on May 06, 2023, 07:03:07 PM
I guess these two could qualify as Washington's "biggest" in terms of how long their highways are: US 2 and I-90 both don't end at I-5 but extend to a state highway a short distance west: SR 529 in Everett and SR 519 in Seattle, respectively.
I-90 was planned to reach SR 99 (when it was still the Alaskan Way Viaduct), hence why the mileposts start at 2.
For years, the Wikipedia page on I-90 kept saying the western terminus was at I-5. I changed it to its proper western terminus, uploaded a map proving it extended beyond I-5, but it kept getting changed back. I think it's finally accurate now.
Even many longtime Connecticut residents call the Wilbur Cross Parkway the Merritt Parkway. It's probably due to CT-15 being signed "Merritt Parkway" as well as 15 from the NY line to the Housatonic River. The name changes there, but there are no "Wilbur Cross Parkway" signs.
Amongst non-roadgeeks, that the Thruway is the fastest route between upstate NY and NYC. That's true of Albany and the North Country, but anywhere along or west of I-81 would go through Binghamton (and usually I-81>I-380>I-80>GWB to get to Manhattan, which also throws people off).
More localized to the Rochester area, that NY 332 is the best route to anywhere south/east of Canandaigua. I've increasingly found staying on the Thruway to NY 21 and taking one of various routes south to bypass Canandaigua to be faster, in no small part due to how built up NY 332 has become in the past ~two decades and how poorly timed the traffic lights are (much like NY 250 here in Penfield, it doesn't even feel like a 55 mph highway because you're always stuck behind someone, slowing down/stopping for a traffic light, or both).
The Pennsylvania welcome center for I-81 south has several signs at the info desk clarifying that it is indeed along the fastest route to NYC (I don't remember the exact text but it was something like "yes, you are on the fastest route to NYC" as if they get a lot of confused NY people who exit to the welcome center when they see the Pennsylvania sign.)
Edit: Found it https://goo.gl/maps/oLWQTZvN8bD7UAfs8 (The rightmost sign on the desk: "Yes, this is the way to New York City")
For Nevada, probably that staying on US 95 and US 93 are the quickest north-south routes through the state.
From Winnemucca to Tonopah, US 95 is 303 miles, part of which being on the duplex with Interstate 80. However, the route through Battle Mountain and Austin via eastbound I-80, SR 305, US 50, SR 376 and US 6 is only 259 miles, and those are all high-speed highways except for the short mountain pass on US 50 just east of Austin.
Likewise, Ely to Crystal Springs is 173 miles via US 93, but 135 miles via US 6 and SR 318.
US 95 and US 93 were designated on those alignments because they were the first north-south routes in the state that were paved. In fact, US 95 used to be even longer, as it dodged west to Fernley and then backtracked to Fallon to avoid the unpaved road between then-US 40 and Fallon.
Quote from: Quillz on May 06, 2023, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 06, 2023, 07:03:07 PM
I guess these two could qualify as Washington's "biggest" in terms of how long their highways are: US 2 and I-90 both don't end at I-5 but extend to a state highway a short distance west: SR 529 in Everett and SR 519 in Seattle, respectively.
I-90 was planned to reach SR 99 (when it was still the Alaskan Way Viaduct), hence why the mileposts start at 2.
For years, the Wikipedia page on I-90 kept saying the western terminus was at I-5. I changed it to its proper western terminus, uploaded a map proving it extended beyond I-5, but it kept getting changed back. I think it's finally accurate now.
A lot of crap gets added to the national Interstate pages and has to be purged. I keep a close eye on I-90's since I rewrote the whole thing and got it up to a high quality rating (Featured article).
Quote from: Quillz on May 06, 2023, 06:41:08 PM
A minor California example. People who visit from out of state sometimes assume that Pacific Coast Highway is equivalent to CA-1. When they are not. PCH is between Dana Point and Point Mugu, with a short extension just past Ventura. The rest of CA-1 is Cabrillo Highway and Shoreline Highway. This might be because in other states, it's often the case that the highway names match with the highway number. I was recently talking to someone who moved to California from another state and they were talking about how they wanted to drive on Pacific Coast Highway to see the redwoods. (In reality they were referring to the Redwood Highway portion of US-101, CA-1 doesn't even go that far north).
Maybe it was a remnant, but I've seen a road styled as "Pacific Coast Hwy" near Pismo Beach.
Quote from: michravera on August 25, 2023, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: Quillz on May 06, 2023, 06:41:08 PM
A minor California example. People who visit from out of state sometimes assume that Pacific Coast Highway is equivalent to CA-1. When they are not. PCH is between Dana Point and Point Mugu, with a short extension just past Ventura. The rest of CA-1 is Cabrillo Highway and Shoreline Highway. This might be because in other states, it's often the case that the highway names match with the highway number. I was recently talking to someone who moved to California from another state and they were talking about how they wanted to drive on Pacific Coast Highway to see the redwoods. (In reality they were referring to the Redwood Highway portion of US-101, CA-1 doesn't even go that far north).
Maybe it was a remnant, but I've seen a road styled as "Pacific Coast Hwy" near Pismo Beach.
It's possible, although the "Cabrillo Highway" is generally the name used for the central coast portion. I'm not sure of the historical extent of PCH, maybe it did go slightly farther. But it certainly did not extend past the Golden Gate Bridge. My suspicion is it may have historically reached San Luis Obispo, as that's the point where long portion of CA-1 begins (and travels through Big Sur). CA-1 between its historic southern terminus and SLO has been realigned a few times, so local names may have changed.
Quote from: Quillz on August 25, 2023, 06:02:54 AM
Quote from: michravera on August 25, 2023, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: Quillz on May 06, 2023, 06:41:08 PM
A minor California example. People who visit from out of state sometimes assume that Pacific Coast Highway is equivalent to CA-1. When they are not. PCH is between Dana Point and Point Mugu, with a short extension just past Ventura. The rest of CA-1 is Cabrillo Highway and Shoreline Highway. This might be because in other states, it's often the case that the highway names match with the highway number. I was recently talking to someone who moved to California from another state and they were talking about how they wanted to drive on Pacific Coast Highway to see the redwoods. (In reality they were referring to the Redwood Highway portion of US-101, CA-1 doesn't even go that far north).
Maybe it was a remnant, but I've seen a road styled as "Pacific Coast Hwy" near Pismo Beach.
It's possible, although the "Cabrillo Highway" is generally the name used for the central coast portion. I'm not sure of the historical extent of PCH, maybe it did go slightly farther. But it certainly did not extend past the Golden Gate Bridge. My suspicion is it may have historically reached San Luis Obispo, as that's the point where long portion of CA-1 begins (and travels through Big Sur). CA-1 between its historic southern terminus and SLO has been realigned a few times, so local names may have changed.
I know part of CA-1 around Oceano (south of Pismo) is Pacific Blvd., but I don't ever recall seeing any PCH reference there, so if there was something, it was likely a tourist/marketing piece.
Even for the parts that locals think of as PCH (Oxnard to San Juan Capistrano), big sections are not. PCH is only "officially" from Pt. Mugu to Santa Monica, El Segundo to Huntington Beach, and Dana Point to I-5 (noting that the small section of former US-101 north of Ventura was named in 1980). Further, big chunks of
those sections (particularly El Segundo to Seal Beach) aren't even in view of the coast.
It's of interest that, of the three sections of CA-1 that get associated/mis-associated with the "Pacific Coast Highway" name (North Coast, Central Coast, South Coast), the "actual" PCH section
wasn't CA-1 (was CA-3, then Alt-US-101) until the 1964 renumbering.
I personally always associated PCH/Roosevelt Highway more with US 101A than CA 1. Much of PCH (outside the Malibu coast especially) doesn't fit the motif of the rest of CA 1 but definitely fits that of a former US Route segment.
Also the segment of CA 1 has gone by several other names such "Coast Road" and "Carmel-San Simeon Highway."
https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/02/california-state-route-1-cabrillo.html?m=1
The Shoreline Highway segment of CA 1 is often referred to as "Coast Highway" historically:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/02/california-state-route-1-shoreline.html?m=1
Drifting off-topic, but I would love to see the name PCH be reassigned as a touring route, independent of actual street names and/or route designations. Start at the border, hew as close to the coast as reasonable, really pick up more of the feel of the California coast. For example, use Silver Strand Blvd., historic US-101 in San Diego County, 2nd Street/Ocean Blvd. in Long Beach, the Vincent Thomas Bridge, Palos Verdes Drive, etc., etc. Guide signs to connect drivers to and from freeways.
Another one I've heard about my future home state is that I-16 was originally supposed to be routed further north, following or utilizing US-80 through Jeffersonville, Swainsboro and Statesboro en route to Savannah. Would have made sense over a route that serves no major cities between Macon and Savannah directly (apart from Dublin), but I've yet to see proof of this anywhere. I've also heard of a further south route of I-16 that would have paralleled US-23 to Eastman, then more or less following US-280 to Vidalia and Claxton en route to Savannah, but again, I've never seen evidence of this route being considered.
Quote from: Quillz on August 25, 2023, 06:02:54 AM
Quote from: michravera on August 25, 2023, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: Quillz on May 06, 2023, 06:41:08 PM
A minor California example. People who visit from out of state sometimes assume that Pacific Coast Highway is equivalent to CA-1. When they are not. PCH is between Dana Point and Point Mugu, with a short extension just past Ventura. The rest of CA-1 is Cabrillo Highway and Shoreline Highway. This might be because in other states, it's often the case that the highway names match with the highway number. I was recently talking to someone who moved to California from another state and they were talking about how they wanted to drive on Pacific Coast Highway to see the redwoods. (In reality they were referring to the Redwood Highway portion of US-101, CA-1 doesn't even go that far north).
The term "The Central Coast" is flexible enough for people to use it as far north as southern Mendocino County and as far south as northern Ventura county (as well as central in other states), so I always refer either to county names or a park name. That's about an 8-hour trip along CASR-1.
Large numbers of roads (from footpaths to megafreeways) in California have been dedicated (often to fallen CHP officers) or rebranded (to make an historical statement) by law with few of the names gaining widespread acceptance. Most of the names that HAVE gained widespread acceptance are old names of the of the roads that were upgraded or bypassed. Vis: "Pearblossom", "Nimitz", "Hollywood", etc. -- even "Grapevine".
Maybe it was a remnant, but I've seen a road styled as "Pacific Coast Hwy" near Pismo Beach.
It's possible, although the "Cabrillo Highway" is generally the name used for the central coast portion. I'm not sure of the historical extent of PCH, maybe it did go slightly farther. But it certainly did not extend past the Golden Gate Bridge. My suspicion is it may have historically reached San Luis Obispo, as that's the point where long portion of CA-1 begins (and travels through Big Sur). CA-1 between its historic southern terminus and SLO has been realigned a few times, so local names may have changed.
That FL A1A is a state alternate of US 1.
In fact FL State Road A1A is to be SR 1 in the grid( as Florida does use a grid) but to avoid ambiguity with US 1 they added a prefix and a suffix with the letter A to give it a separate identity.
Though now it don't matter as you have US 17 and FL 17 intersect in Haines City. Plus a US 23 and FL 23 both exist in Duval County. However back then it mattered.
Quote from: DTComposer on August 25, 2023, 03:08:58 PM
Drifting off-topic, but I would love to see the name PCH be reassigned as a touring route, independent of actual street names and/or route designations. Start at the border, hew as close to the coast as reasonable, really pick up more of the feel of the California coast. For example, use Silver Strand Blvd., historic US-101 in San Diego County, 2nd Street/Ocean Blvd. in Long Beach, the Vincent Thomas Bridge, Palos Verdes Drive, etc., etc. Guide signs to connect drivers to and from freeways.
Or just bring back the Pacific Highway name but modernize it actually follow the coast completely. That wasn't possible to do during the Auto Trail era, it is now.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 25, 2023, 03:28:48 PM
That FL A1A is a state alternate of US 1.
In fact FL State Road A1A is to be SR 1 in the grid( as Florida does use a grid) but to avoid ambiguity with US 1 they added a prefix and a suffix with the letter A to give it a separate identity.
Though now it don't matter as you have US 17 and FL 17 intersect in Haines City. Plus a US 23 and FL 23 both exist in Duval County. However back then it mattered.
But it did matter when US 27 and FL 27 intersected. Apparently drivers became confused (somehow) which led to FL 997 and FL 9336 being reassigned over FL 27.
Referencing "Grapevine" in michravera's post, that has a trackable history:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2022/03/when-did-people-begin-to-refer-to-ridge.html?m=1
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on August 25, 2023, 03:14:47 PM
Another one I've heard about my future home state is that I-16 was originally supposed to be routed further north, following or utilizing US-80 through Jeffersonville, Swainsboro and Statesboro en route to Savannah. Would have made sense over a route that serves no major cities between Macon and Savannah directly (apart from Dublin), but I've yet to see proof of this anywhere. I've also heard of a further south route of I-16 that would have paralleled US-23 to Eastman, then more or less following US-280 to Vidalia and Claxton en route to Savannah, but again, I've never seen evidence of this route being considered.
There is an Oct 1957 map in the AASHO database that shows I-16 to run north of its actual construction from Jeffersonton, north of Dublin to just below Stillmore and north of Metter, passes much closer to Statesboro, then angling southeast back to actual I-16 near the GA 119 interchange.
This map also shows I-95 futher east in the Brunswick area and I-85 using today's I-985 and crossing into SC much closer to Toccoa.
First, go to the database: https://grmservices.grmims.com/vsearch/portal/public/na4/aashto/default
Then to this link: https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=7bdc3ae2-36e6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true
It is the second 1958 interstate document if you end up looking at Georgia's list of documents.
Quote from: michravera on August 25, 2023, 03:18:50 PM
Large numbers of roads (from footpaths to megafreeways) in California have been dedicated (often to fallen CHP officers) or rebranded (to make an historical statement) by law with few of the names gaining widespread acceptance. Most of the names that HAVE gained widespread acceptance are old names of the of the roads that were upgraded or bypassed. Vis: "Pearblossom", "Nimitz", "Hollywood", etc. -- even "Grapevine".
The Nimitz Freeway name was assigned in the 1950s and is not derived from a parallel boulevard (unlike MacArthur).
Likewise, Hollywood Freeway is the limited-access replacement for...Cahuenga Boulevard. (wasn't it Cahuenga Parkway initially?)
Yes there was also Ramona Parkway, Santa Ana Parkway and of course Arroyo Seco Parkway. "Parkway" is just old tyme California-speak for early freeway. Kind of like how "subways" once denoted what we would call underpasses now.
Quote from: SectorZ on May 02, 2023, 04:34:48 PM
For Massachusetts, the first 7 miles of I-93 are still MA 128. People in TV media younger than the age of its deletion from there even call it this.
Our grandkids are probably all gonna be dead and buried before people start calling I-93 and I-95 anything other than Route 128.
Not a state: That A-129 extends East of Sariñena (when it doesn't yet).
Not my state: I used to believe US 131 at one point extended down to US 20.
On Long Island: Montauk Highway = NY 27A all the way out to the Hamptons. That way true historically, but NY 27A has been heavily truncated, and most of the old NY 27A is now county routes.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on August 25, 2023, 05:55:53 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on May 02, 2023, 04:34:48 PM
For Massachusetts, the first 7 miles of I-93 are still MA 128. People in TV media younger than the age of its deletion from there even call it this.
Our grandkids are probably all gonna be dead and buried before people start calling I-93 and I-95 anything other than Route 128.
Indeed.
Quote from: michravera on August 25, 2023, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: Quillz on May 06, 2023, 06:41:08 PM
A minor California example. People who visit from out of state sometimes assume that Pacific Coast Highway is equivalent to CA-1. When they are not. PCH is between Dana Point and Point Mugu, with a short extension just past Ventura. The rest of CA-1 is Cabrillo Highway and Shoreline Highway. This might be because in other states, it's often the case that the highway names match with the highway number. I was recently talking to someone who moved to California from another state and they were talking about how they wanted to drive on Pacific Coast Highway to see the redwoods. (In reality they were referring to the Redwood Highway portion of US-101, CA-1 doesn't even go that far north).
Maybe it was a remnant, but I've seen a road styled as "Pacific Coast Hwy" near Pismo Beach.
Here's a LGS just as you exit US 101 in Pismo identifying the road as "PCH": https://goo.gl/maps/XFZLa58DsZEMZ3ag6
And here's a Pismo street blade with "Pacific Coast Highway": https://goo.gl/maps/jriw4JhNQhmSU8vz9
Irony being that the segment of 1 from Pismo Beach southward to Gaviota Pass is the one that hugs the Pacific Coast the least.
Quote from: ran4sh on August 24, 2023, 09:23:21 PM
The Pennsylvania welcome center for I-81 south has several signs at the info desk clarifying that it is indeed along the fastest route to NYC (I don't remember the exact text but it was something like "yes, you are on the fastest route to NYC" as if they get a lot of confused NY people who exit to the welcome center when they see the Pennsylvania sign.)
Edit: Found it https://goo.gl/maps/oLWQTZvN8bD7UAfs8 (The rightmost sign on the desk: "Yes, this is the way to New York City")
This is really surprising to me. I certainly have been aware that it's a very long drive to simply take the Thruway all the way to Rochester or Buffalo from NYC, but it would seem that a better way between W NY and NYC would be to simply make use of I-81 and NY-17. Isn't NY-17 at least freeway or expressway grade for the entire journey between I-81 and I-87?
If one is traveling in the Binghampton area, where I-81 and NY-17 split, I-81 south has a control of Scranton and NY-17 has a control of NYC. The signs are definitely guiding people on NY-17.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1032734,-75.8287149,3a,75y,140.63h,82.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdpzmSiFgZr36e70m2QJvSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
And at least from my quick GSV research, it doesn't seem like there is any good guidance to guide people to NYC once in the Scranton area. At 81/84/6 interchange, the controls are for Carbondale and Mt Pocono. At 84/380 380 only says Mt Pocono. And of course, at 80/380 the choice is Stroudsburg. PA being PA! But at the very least, NYC should somehow be added as a choice in a prominent sign at these three key decision points. In the last two cases, NYC can be a secondary control on the pull through signage, in the first one where there is arguably no room for three control cities, there should at least be supplemental signage for NYC traffic to follow 380 to Mt Pocono.
If they have to make a sign at the desk, then perhaps they need to put a sign on the highway at the state line that NYC travelers can follow 81-84-380-80 to get to NYC.
All I know is that I've come to enjoy the turn north as I come up I-81 as everyone else heads east on I-78. No more fighting with slow trucks or left lane blockers...until Wilkes-Barre (bear or bar, never berry).
Quote from: DTComposer on August 25, 2023, 03:08:58 PM
Drifting off-topic, but I would love to see the name PCH be reassigned as a touring route, independent of actual street names and/or route designations. Start at the border, hew as close to the coast as reasonable, really pick up more of the feel of the California coast. For example, use Silver Strand Blvd., historic US-101 in San Diego County, 2nd Street/Ocean Blvd. in Long Beach, the Vincent Thomas Bridge, Palos Verdes Drive, etc., etc. Guide signs to connect drivers to and from freeways.
I love the idea. Picking the closest practical arterial to a coastal drive as teh scenic coastal route. Go for it!
Quote from: mrsman on September 23, 2023, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on August 24, 2023, 09:23:21 PM
The Pennsylvania welcome center for I-81 south has several signs at the info desk clarifying that it is indeed along the fastest route to NYC (I don't remember the exact text but it was something like "yes, you are on the fastest route to NYC" as if they get a lot of confused NY people who exit to the welcome center when they see the Pennsylvania sign.)
Edit: Found it https://goo.gl/maps/oLWQTZvN8bD7UAfs8 (The rightmost sign on the desk: "Yes, this is the way to New York City")
This is really surprising to me. I certainly have been aware that it's a very long drive to simply take the Thruway all the way to Rochester or Buffalo from NYC, but it would seem that a better way between W NY and NYC would be to simply make use of I-81 and NY-17. Isn't NY-17 at least freeway or expressway grade for the entire journey between I-81 and I-87?
If one is traveling in the Binghampton area, where I-81 and NY-17 split, I-81 south has a control of Scranton and NY-17 has a control of NYC. The signs are definitely guiding people on NY-17.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1032734,-75.8287149,3a,75y,140.63h,82.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdpzmSiFgZr36e70m2QJvSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
And at least from my quick GSV research, it doesn't seem like there is any good guidance to guide people to NYC once in the Scranton area. At 81/84/6 interchange, the controls are for Carbondale and Mt Pocono. At 84/380 380 only says Mt Pocono. And of course, at 80/380 the choice is Stroudsburg. PA being PA! But at the very least, NYC should somehow be added as a choice in a prominent sign at these three key decision points. In the last two cases, NYC can be a secondary control on the pull through signage, in the first one where there is arguably no room for three control cities, there should at least be supplemental signage for NYC traffic to follow 380 to Mt Pocono.
If they have to make a sign at the desk, then perhaps they need to put a sign on the highway at the state line that NYC travelers can follow 81-84-380-80 to get to NYC.
The people who don't know that the fastest WNY -> NYC route enters PA, will only have entered PA because of following GPS. Since those drivers are following GPS anyway, I don't see why NYC as a control city is needed for the purpose of guiding those drivers. Of course, I agree that NYC *should* be the control city for eastbound I-80 and the routes that lead to it such as I-380. Not in addition to some random PA location, but instead of such. (Exception - for the I-84/380 overlap, NYC can be used for I-380 in addition to some control city being used for I-84 such as Hartford.)
I think NY uses NYC as the control city for I-86/NY 17 from Binghamton to incentivize staying in state.
How about this one US-40 used to go to Benicia and Martinez. This gets mixed in with Lincoln Highway's realignment to Yolo, Solano, Contra Costa Counties as it was a time when Lincoln Highway was being realigned from South Sacramento, Tracy to Oakland Alignment.
http://www.gribblenation.org/2019/11/the-original-alignment-of-us-route-40.html (http://www.gribblenation.org/2019/11/the-original-alignment-of-us-route-40.html)
It tends to be forgotten due to when the Carquinez Bridge was built.
Also the original alignment of US-50 was in West Sacramento until it was rerouted to go to South Sacramento to Tracy to Oakland and Sacramento as it's wentern Terminus and is usually mistaken as it's original alignment. Then it got
Rerouted back to West Sacramento as it's western terminus.
https://www.usends.com/50.html
Quote from: mrsman on September 23, 2023, 09:13:11 PM
This is really surprising to me. I certainly have been aware that it's a very long drive to simply take the Thruway all the way to Rochester or Buffalo from NYC, but it would seem that a better way between W NY and NYC would be to simply make use of I-81 and NY-17. Isn't NY-17 at least freeway or expressway grade for the entire journey between I-81 and I-87?
If one is traveling in the Binghampton area, where I-81 and NY-17 split, I-81 south has a control of Scranton and NY-17 has a control of NYC. The signs are definitely guiding people on NY-17.
NY 17 is at least expressway grade, and mostly freeway except for Hale Eddy. The problem is that it's much more winding than I-81/I-380/I-80, has a long 55 mph zone through Delaware County, and ends at I-87 which adds more mileage by taking two sides of a triangle around Harriman.
So, instead of NY 17 reliably being faster, it depends on where you're going in the NYC area. NY 17 is normally faster for Orange, Rockland, Westchester, and southeast CT, while I-81/I-380/I-80 is normally faster for all five boroughs and Long Island (and obviously anywhere in NJ except the far northeast corner along the Rockland county line).
Quote from: mrsman on September 23, 2023, 09:13:11 PM
And at least from my quick GSV research, it doesn't seem like there is any good guidance to guide people to NYC once in the Scranton area. At 81/84/6 interchange, the controls are for Carbondale and Mt Pocono. At 84/380 380 only says Mt Pocono. And of course, at 80/380 the choice is Stroudsburg. PA being PA! But at the very least, NYC should somehow be added as a choice in a prominent sign at these three key decision points. In the last two cases, NYC can be a secondary control on the pull through signage, in the first one where there is arguably no room for three control cities, there should at least be supplemental signage for NYC traffic to follow 380 to Mt Pocono.
I agree signage for NYC could be better, but that would be primarily PA's responsibility. As ran4sh noted, NY signs NY 17 for NYC to encourage the in-state route, and it is technically correct that NY 17 to I-87 is the fastest/shortest route to get to the NYC
line (Yonkers/Bronx), but not for anywhere south of the GWB.
Quote from: ran4sh on September 23, 2023, 11:54:56 PM
The people who don't know that the fastest WNY -> NYC route enters PA, will only have entered PA because of following GPS. Since those drivers are following GPS anyway, I don't see why NYC as a control city is needed for the purpose of guiding those drivers.
The questions at the PA welcome center probably come from people who don't pay much attention to maps/directions, but are conceptually aware of the oddity that they just entered PA while on an in-state trip, so they want to make sure their GPS is accurate.
[quote author=webny99 link=topic=33254.msg2871949#msg2871949 date=1695646662
The questions at the PA welcome center probably come from people who don't pay much attention to maps/directions, but are conceptually aware of the oddity that they just entered PA while on an in-state trip [EDIT - going from western NY state to NYC], so they want to make sure their GPS is accurate.
[/quote]
Maybe I'm missing something here, as I do not have a GPS. If I were to go from western NY state to NYC, and use a GPS, would I be able to specify to it to stay "in state"? It sounds like you couldn't (which is what I would hope). Or another way of asking this: Is "while on an in-state trip" as described above just a mental thing or is it something you specify to the GPS?
It does sound like from other posts, that if you gave it a specific NYC address, that it might route you a different way depending on where that NYC address is (e.g., NY 17/I-86 from Binghamton if well north of GWB, or I-81/I-380/I-80 from Binghamton if near GWB or anywhere south of it).
Quote from: TheStranger on May 02, 2023, 03:50:42 PM
For California, my first thought is that whole saga over US 66's historic western endpoint changes (mostly these days in online road discussion groups on FB), where while people knew that it ended in LA at one point and eventually Santa Monica, there are still myths floating out there over the pre-Santa Monica routing that have already been contradicted by actual documentation.
What myths have been debunked? Old myths or new myths? There is a ton of false information about US 66 that has been debunked but the 66 crowd doesn't care, they reject anything new that contradicts their beliefs.