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What state posts the worst control cities? The best?

Started by Roadgeekteen, April 13, 2021, 10:56:56 AM

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I-55

Tennessee is among my picks for the best. My only critiques:

- Jackson, TN should be a secondary control for I-40 (at least out of Memphis)

- Jackson Miss - Jackson, MS

- Bristol maybe should be included with Asheville for I-40 east out of Knoxville.

Other than that, I think all other control city selections are no brainers and good.
Let's Go Purdue Basketball Whoosh


Flint1979

From terminus to terminus I think US-35 should be Michigan City, La Porte, Kokomo, Muncie, Richmond, Dayton, Chillicothe, Charleston.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2021, 04:17:39 PM
There are only two control cities:

Albany and Buffalo. :D

It does seem that way in much of Upstate NY, which is my main beef with NY. I'd use Syracuse in both directions on the Thruway. No issues with I-81, I-87, or I-88. For I-86/NY 17 WB I'd use Erie PA instead of Jamestown.

ran4sh

I think all states have at least 1 or 2 control city decisions that I disagree with. But in general I agree with Georgia's and South Carolina's control cities and I sometimes agree, sometimes disagree with North Carolina's control cities.

And it's not like California "never" uses out-of-state cities. Most people that say that, are only thinking of I-10 east from LA. I-10 east does use Phoenix, although beginning from Indio.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 09:49:38 PM
I think all states have at least 1 or 2 control city decisions that I disagree with. But in general I agree with Georgia's and South Carolina's control cities and I sometimes agree, sometimes disagree with North Carolina's control cities.

And it's not like California "never" uses out-of-state cities. Most people that say that, are only thinking of I-10 east from LA. I-10 east does use Phoenix, although beginning from Indio.
They don't use Portland on I-5 or Flagstaff on I-40 (at least until you get close to the border).
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

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ran4sh

Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?

Is most long distance traffic on the route, really going all the way to Portland?
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?

Is most long distance traffic on the route, really going all the way to Portland?
I dunno about Portland but Redding is the only city I consider significant enough. And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

SkyPesos

Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?
One is in that Route 66 song everyone and their mother knows, and the other isn't, so yes  :-D

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?
One is in that Route 66 song everyone and their mother knows, and the other isn't, so yes  :-D
Also Flagstaff has over 70 thousand people and Needles isn't even at 5 thousand people.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

ran4sh

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?

Is most long distance traffic on the route, really going all the way to Portland?
I dunno about Portland but Redding is the only city I consider significant enough. And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers.

"And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers. "

Yes, that's why I specified it. Usually "most" traffic on a route is local, but control city signage is not for them. Hence, "most long-distance traffic" (excluding local traffic).
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:06:22 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?

Is most long distance traffic on the route, really going all the way to Portland?
I dunno about Portland but Redding is the only city I consider significant enough. And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers.

"And control cities should be meant for long-distance travelers. "

Yes, that's why I specified it. Usually "most" traffic on a route is local, but control city signage is not for them. Hence, "most long-distance traffic" (excluding local traffic).
Where else would long-distance travelers be going to? Mount Sasha? Crater Lake?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Flint1979

I hate how IDOT uses state names but then you think about it and there really isn't another logical choice. I was in Chicago this past weekend for the first time in two years and noticed that they have Aurora as a control city replacing West Suburbs on the Ike but I did see a West Suburbs sign before seeing the Aurora sign.

I know I've probably beat this to death but using Milwaukee instead of Wisconsin or Detroit and South Bend for the I-80/94 concurrency makes more sense. I haven't been on I-65 coming up to Gary in awhile but I'm pretty sure without looking that it's Toledo and Detroit. Wouldn't South Bend make more sense than Toledo? INDOT using a city in another state over a decently populated city in their own state makes no sense.

And who in the hell even realizes that they are on US-6 when they are on the Borman?

Flint1979

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?
One is in that Route 66 song everyone and their mother knows, and the other isn't, so yes  :-D
Reminds me of The Beatles song, "Your Mother Should Know."

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 10:09:06 PM
I hate how IDOT uses state names but then you think about it and there really isn't another logical choice. I was in Chicago this past weekend for the first time in two years and noticed that they have Aurora as a control city replacing West Suburbs on the Ike but I did see a West Suburbs sign before seeing the Aurora sign.

I know I've probably beat this to death but using Milwaukee instead of Wisconsin or Detroit and South Bend for the I-80/94 concurrency makes more sense. I haven't been on I-65 coming up to Gary in awhile but I'm pretty sure without looking that it's Toledo and Detroit. Wouldn't South Bend make more sense than Toledo? INDOT using a city in another state over a decently populated city in their own state makes no sense.

And who in the hell even realizes that they are on US-6 when they are on the Borman?
South Bend should be used going eastbound in Chicago, and then Toledo. Westbound just use Chicago.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

SkyPesos

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 10:09:06 PM
Wouldn't South Bend make more sense than Toledo? INDOT using a city in another state over a decently populated city in their own state makes no sense.
I think South Bend is a good choice if something has to be used between Chicago and Toledo, but some people here disagree. Is having Notre Dame University and the current transportation secretary not enough for South Bend's status?

sprjus4

Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2021, 02:56:06 PM
Kentucky's are generally good, although I'm not crazy about Fulton being used on I-69.

West Virginia's are iffy. I can understand using Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, Clarksburg, Parkersburg, and Morgantown. But Lewisburg on I-64 east of Beckley is ridiculous. Lexington, Va., would be a better choice. And instead of Bluefield south of Beckley, I'd use Wytheville, Va., since it's a major interstate intersection. On I-77 north of Parkersburg, I'd use Cambridge, Ohio (major intersection) or even one of the bigger Ohio cities like Akron or Cleveland instead of Marietta. Washington, Pa., is a good choice since it's also a major intersection.
I wouldn't be opposed to continuous use of Richmond for I-64 East and Charlotte for I-77 South.

Sure, Lexington and Wytheville are interstate junctions, but are not major cities. Richmond and Charlotte would provide better guidance for long distance traffic.

Flint1979

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?
One is in that Route 66 song everyone and their mother knows, and the other isn't, so yes  :-D
Also Flagstaff has over 70 thousand people and Needles isn't even at 5 thousand people.
Flagstaff only had about 7,500 people in 1950.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 10:16:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 13, 2021, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on April 13, 2021, 10:01:23 PM
Is Flagstaff really that much more significant than Needles?
One is in that Route 66 song everyone and their mother knows, and the other isn't, so yes  :-D
Also Flagstaff has over 70 thousand people and Needles isn't even at 5 thousand people.
Flagstaff only had about 7,500 people in 1950.
Control cities can be replaced. I'm assuming that the signs are not from the 1950s?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Flint1979

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 10:14:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 10:09:06 PM
Wouldn't South Bend make more sense than Toledo? INDOT using a city in another state over a decently populated city in their own state makes no sense.
I think South Bend is a good choice if something has to be used between Chicago and Toledo, but some people here disagree. Is having Notre Dame University and the current transportation secretary not enough for South Bend's status?
It's the fourth largest city in Indiana and gets no control city signage on the Toll Road it just don't make sense. If I just assumed I would assume that South Bend was the control city not Toledo.

Revive 755

#44
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 10:09:06 PM
I hate how IDOT uses state names but then you think about it and there really isn't another logical choice.

I don't agree - the uses of states is too vague and not logical to me when better choices are available.

* Use Milwaukee or O'Hare on WB I-90/I-94 until the Junction
* Use Milwaukee on the NB Tri-State - especially if it is good enough for a non-interstate such as such as US 41.
* Definitely not use Wisconsin for I-90 west of the the I-290/IL 53 interchange but east of I-39. (I'm not thrilled with using it for I-39/I-90 either - Madison should show up instead).
* Use Gary, IN instead of Indiana if wanting a closer destination, otherwise use South Bend or Toledo for I-80 and I-90.
* Stick with Des Moines for WB I-80, or at least use Moline-Rock Island.

Also, LaSalle - Peru should make a few appearances as a secondary control city for I-80


Flint1979

Gary certainly is not a good choice for a control city in the Chicago area.

TheStranger

Thinking about (primary) California control cities for a moment:

- US 101: the main ones southbound are Eureka, Santa Rosa, San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles/northbound is Ventura, San Francisco, Santa Rosa, Eureka.  All of them seem decent choices.  Maybe San Jose should be more important northbound after San Luis Obispo, given the increased level of fame that Silicon Valley has had over the last 3 decades.  I suspect part of the reason LA is not mentioned in SF is that there are too many variations for best possible route to SoCal from there (80-580-5, 101-152-5, and 101 straight up), though it is the southbound control for 101 as early as Mountain View at Route 85.  Northbound, SF first is mentioned at Route 126 in Ventura (where one already would not have the practical option of 5 or 99 to go north).

- I-80: Oakland, Sacramento, Reno eastbound/Sacramento, San Francisco/Oakland westbound.  (Keep in mind that Sacramento-SF distance is similar to NYC-Philadelphia).  I suspect Sacramento isn't signed in SF specifically to keep message loading low and allow the Bay Bridge itself to be a control destination.

- I-5: Los Angeles, Santa Ana, Sacramento (formerly Bakersfield), Redding, Portland northbound/Redding, Sacramento, Los Angeles, Santa Ana, San Diego southbound.  Not sure 5 south of downtown San Diego has control cities at all even now.  Northbound, I still think Bakersfield should be a secondary between 405 and 99.

- I-15: Escondido/Riverside, Los Angeles, Barstow, Las Vegas northbound/Barstow, Los Angeles, San Diego southbound.   LA however is never directly reached from I-15 but is more a pointer towards the various east-west roads that connect 15 in the Inland Empire to LA (210, 10, 60) and is a vestige as well of the US 66/US 91 era.  Still the most logical for drivers from Vegas.  Northbound, Riverside is still logical even if modern I-15 diverges from former I-15E/US 395/current I-215 in Murrieta.

- I-8: El Centro, Yuma eastbound/El Centro, San Diego westbound.  Pretty straightforward.

- I-40: Needles eastbound, Barstow westbound.

- Route 99: Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, Yuba City, Chico, Red Bluff northbound/Chico, Yuba City, Sacramento, Fresno, Bakersfield/Los Angeles southbound.  LA a vestige of when US 99 followed 5 (Golden State Freeway) to that city. 

- I-10 is already well known for "Other Desert Cities" east of Palm Springs, lol.  That might be the one that gives the perception California's control city choices aren't the best.
Chris Sampang

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: TheStranger on April 14, 2021, 12:00:50 AM
Thinking about (primary) California control cities for a moment:

- US 101: the main ones southbound are Eureka, Santa Rosa, San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles/northbound is Ventura, San Francisco, Santa Rosa, Eureka.  All of them seem decent choices.  Maybe San Jose should be more important northbound after San Luis Obispo, given the increased level of fame that Silicon Valley has had over the last 3 decades.  I suspect part of the reason LA is not mentioned in SF is that there are too many variations for best possible route to SoCal from there (80-580-5, 101-152-5, and 101 straight up), though it is the southbound control for 101 as early as Mountain View at Route 85.  Northbound, SF first is mentioned at Route 126 in Ventura (where one already would not have the practical option of 5 or 99 to go north).

- I-80: Oakland, Sacramento, Reno eastbound/Sacramento, San Francisco/Oakland westbound.  (Keep in mind that Sacramento-SF distance is similar to NYC-Philadelphia).  I suspect Sacramento isn't signed in SF specifically to keep message loading low and allow the Bay Bridge itself to be a control destination.

- I-5: Los Angeles, Santa Ana, Sacramento (formerly Bakersfield), Redding, Portland northbound/Redding, Sacramento, Los Angeles, Santa Ana, San Diego southbound.  Not sure 5 south of downtown San Diego has control cities at all even now.  Northbound, I still think Bakersfield should be a secondary between 405 and 99.

- I-15: Escondido/Riverside, Los Angeles, Barstow, Las Vegas northbound/Barstow, Los Angeles, San Diego southbound.   LA however is never directly reached from I-15 but is more a pointer towards the various east-west roads that connect 15 in the Inland Empire to LA (210, 10, 60) and is a vestige as well of the US 66/US 91 era.  Still the most logical for drivers from Vegas.  Northbound, Riverside is still logical even if modern I-15 diverges from former I-15E/US 395/current I-215 in Murrieta.

- I-8: El Centro, Yuma eastbound/El Centro, San Diego westbound.  Pretty straightforward.

- I-40: Needles eastbound, Barstow westbound.

- Route 99: Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, Yuba City, Chico, Red Bluff northbound/Chico, Yuba City, Sacramento, Fresno, Bakersfield/Los Angeles southbound.  LA a vestige of when US 99 followed 5 (Golden State Freeway) to that city. 

- I-10 is already well known for "Other Desert Cities" east of Palm Springs, lol.  That might be the one that gives the perception California's control city choices aren't the best.
Interesting that California uses Yuma but Arizona does not.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

roadman65

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 08:03:46 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 07:17:56 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 13, 2021, 07:03:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2021, 06:36:41 PM
I like Michigan's. I-69 they use Port Huron, Flint, Lansing and Fort Wayne.

I-75 they use Detroit, Toledo, Flint, Saginaw, Mackinac Bridge and Sault Ste Marie.

I-94 is Detroit, Chicago and Port Huron. Although at secondary interchanges Michigan cities are used.

I-96 uses Detroit, Lansing, Grand Rapids and Muskegon.

I don't get the use of Buena Vista for M-46 at the I-75 interchange though. You're already in Buena Vista and Saginaw is right next to it and is a much larger town. Buena Vista is a Township which is a suburb of Saginaw.
Michigan also does control cities on non-interstate freeways better than Ohio does. See my rant above for Ohio's choices, like every county seat on US 35, a major trucking route between the Midwest and Carolinas. I took a look at US 23, and mostly see Toledo, Ann Arbor, Flint used. If you had ODOT sign control cities on that segment, it would go something like Toledo, Dundee or Milan, Ann Arbor, Brighton, Fenton, Flint.

Forgot to include this in my post above, here's my thought on US 24's control cities in OH:
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 01, 2021, 09:48:02 PM
I forgot a US route freeway in Ohio:

US 24: Ft Wayne, Toledo
For a US route that's really important for long distance travel (part of the shortcut for I-69 between Ft Wayne and Pt Huron), it really shouldn't have any in-state control cities west of Toledo. So goodbye Defiance and Napoleon.
That is all 23 uses on its solo freeway stretch between Flint and Toledo but Brighton might make some sense although it's kind of close to Ann Arbor it's where I-96 crosses it so it's a major point on the highway. For US-35 going east of Dayton I would just use Chillicothe it's more in the middle of the state and using Xenia and Washington courthouse and stuff like that just don't make any sense.
East of Chillicothe, Jackson and Gallipolis can be removed too. That will leave the EB direction with Charleston, which is where most vehicles would presumably turn south onto the WV turnpike towards VA and NC.

If someone is going to rank all the states for control cities, for the 'good' category that was posted above, I think Michigan would go above Ohio, which would go above Missouri.
My issue with Missouri is that they have a third control city on various places, specifically I-70 WB and I-44 WB west of St Louis. You can see either Kansas City, Columbia or Wentzville signed as a control city on I-70 WB in St Charles County. I'm fine with Columbia, as it's roughly in the middle of the 250 miles between KC and StL, and has Missouri's flagship university, but I don't get the need of Wentzville, which is increasingly appearing on new signage. I-44 WB changes from Tulsa to Rolla as you get out of the St Louis area, and you don't see Tulsa again until west of Joplin. As if Rolla isn't enough, a third control city (St Clair) is also used WB at some interchanges.


I-44 west shouldn’t use Tulsa from St. Louis as Springfield, MO is most appropriate. Thus being a large regional city close to the Ozark Moutains and many other SW MO destinations. That would make most sense.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Scott5114

#49
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 03:06:45 AM
I-44 west shouldn't use Tulsa from St. Louis as Springfield, MO is most appropriate. Thus being a large regional city close to the Ozark Moutains and many other SW MO destinations. That would make most sense.

You're in St. Louis, and you see a sign for "I-44 West–Springfield". "Ah!" you say, guiding your car down the exit ramp. "I know this is my exit; I'm heading to Chicago, Illinois, and I remember my state capitals!"

Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2021, 04:17:39 PM
There are only two control cities:

Albany and Buffalo. :D

This makes things extremely awkward for the engineers that have to sign I-27.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef



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