I-20 West end

[texaskdog]

Okay I was just looking at the Texas map on my wall.  There is nothing of significance on I-20 between Odessa & El Paso.  Why didn't they just build the highway along the north end of Midland & Odessa and straight west to El Paso?

[hotdogPi]

That option needs more miles of Interstate than what currently happened.

[The Ghostbuster]

I think its too late to go back to the planners of the Interstate system and ask WTF were they thinking, but my guess is they wanted Interstate 20 to follow the US 80 corridor all the way to Interstate 10 (formerly US 290).

[texaskdog]

they seemed to be quite tied in to what was there, even if there wasn't much there

[Max Rockatansky]

As opposed to US 62/180?  The 75 MPH speed limit two-lane road that has the 100 plus miles section without services?....that one?

[Bobby5280]

It could be an old wive's tale, but I remember family members saying there were some provisional plans to route I-20 near Lubbock, thru Roswell and then to join I-10 in Las Cruces, but various land owners poo poo'ed that idea. If that scenario was true there would be plenty of candidates to thwart an I-20 path through their land. The Air Force might not have been so keen on a high traffic highway going through White Sands Missile Range. The Apache Tribe could have been against it. For whatever reason I-20 got routed down through Midland & Odessa to join I-10 near Van Horn. But I do think a Lubbock-Roswell and Las Cruces version probably would have been pretty good.

[Max Rockatansky]

It could be an old wive's tale, but I remember family members saying there were some provisional plans to route I-20 near Lubbock, thru Roswell and then to join I-10 in Las Cruces, but various land owners poo poo'ed that idea. If that scenario was true there would be plenty of candidates to thwart an I-20 path through their land. The Air Force might not have been so keen on a high traffic highway going through White Sands Missile Range. The Apache Tribe could have been against it. For whatever reason I-20 got routed down through Midland & Odessa to join I-10 near Van Horn. But I do think a Lubbock-Roswell and Las Cruces version probably would have been pretty good.

If that's true there is a lot of irony considering that US 70 from Roswell to Las Cruces is entirely four-lane today with even some freeway segments.  Would be so bad if I-20 followed US 380 from the Fort Worth area to Roswell.  I-27 would have a much more natural southern terminus slightly south of Lubbock in that case.  Funny though, I have some friends with the Mescalero Tribe and it's hard to envision in at least modern terms that they would really put a huge fight up given how much tourism revenue that would bring to the Inn of the Mountain Gods and Ski Apache.

[Brian556]

In Texas, the current routing serves several moderate-sized cities (Abilene, Midland, Odessa), whereas, if were to route it farther north, it would encounter only one decent sized (but granted larger) city, Lubbock. Also, its current routing allows it to avoid mountains.

[Max Rockatansky]

In Texas, the current routing serves several moderate-sized cities (Abilene, Midland, Odessa), whereas, if were to route it farther north, it would encounter only one decent sized (but granted larger) city, Lubbock. Also, its current routing allows it to avoid mountains.

Oh believe me....I know, Abilene has been a frequent stopping point on the way home several times over years.  I got pulled over by Texas Highway Patrol back in January about a mile from the US 84 junction where I was going to cut up to US 180 heading to Carlsbad.  Apparently being on I-20 at 6 AM was a weird thing since it was the first question the officer asked.  I was going 72 MPH when the patrolman literally went 30-40 MPH below the speed limit in the left lane to follow me.  He followed me a good thirty miles before pulling me over for following a truck too close at 500 feet right before I was about to pass as opposed to the "legal" 700 feet.

Back when I was a patrolman that's what I we called a "pretext stop."  Basically that means you want to pull someone over but you need to find a reason.  So basically you just follow someone until they have a traffic violation which usually is a mile or two.  Essentially the "purpose" of this is to stop people to ask for consent searches for drug stops or DUIs.  About the most interesting thing I had going on was a out of state tag on my rental car.  The officer asked me why I was up so early and basically the answer was simple; I was hitting both Carlsbad and Guadalupe Mountains National Parks for the day then heading to Las Cruces for the night....maybe even White Sands if I was so inclined which included getting up early to do.  Besides, 6 AM being weird on the Interstate?....WTF?    Best I could figure was that they must have some intel out about drug runners avoiding I-10 for I-20 or something?...who knows.  Anyways, I thought it was interesting that there was an actual "warning ticket" that they give you.

BUT....when I planned the return trip home from the work conference I planned on taking US 380 and US 70 out of Dallas.  Weather wasn't looking hot so I switched to US 180/62 instead since it had scenery I liked as well.  For what it's worth though, there might be so viability someday with the US 380/US 70 corridor having Interstate upgrades in some far flung future.

[Bobby5280]

In the near term TX DOT is building bypasses and doing other upgrades in some West Texas towns just to get that out of the way. As traffic increases on certain corridors it will be easier to stitch together 4-lane expressway or freeway upgrades between towns and the already existing bypasses. I do wonder about the design on some of them, such as the one on US-82 in Guthrie.

I'm thinking cities like Roswell and Alamogordo would have to grow a lot more to get a highway like US-380 and US-70 upgraded to Interstate quality. Doing a freeway quality upgrade through the cramped spaces around Ruidoso would be difficult and expensive.

Out of corridors in West Texas that could be possibly upgraded to Interstate quality, I would most like to see US-287 between Fort Worth and Amarillo upgraded, what some have referred to as "I-32." US-277 has been 4-laned nearly all the way between Wichita Falls and Abilene. With the bypasses that have been built in towns along the way, it could be a future extension of I-44. I'd like to see I-44 extended to San Angelo and I-27 routed through Big Spring and San Angelo.

Regarding pretext stops, there's a lot of them done in this region. Some big drug busts happen on US-287 between DFW and Amarillo. I-44 and I-40 in Oklahoma have a lot of activity as well.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^ Hence the far flung future part of the equation.  By no means is US 70 from Roswell to Las Cruces insufficient, it's actually probably overbuilt even with places like Roswell having nearly 50,000 people or Alamogordo with 30,000.  I don't think Ruidoso is so much of an engineering challenge as it would be a funding challenge with the hotel district along US 70.  The space between the two ridges is plenty wide for Interstate width and some businesses on a frontage road...but on one side.  The good news is that most of the REAL Ruidoso is up NM 48.

Yeah figured it was something like that.  Probably weird to have anyone really ever take I-20 in favor of I-10 when traveling back to California purposely.

[Bobby5280]

There is a lot of development hugging the edge of US-70 in Hollywood, NM and Ruidoso Downs, NM. Quite a lot of property would have to be acquired and demolished to make room for a freeway upgrade. That would be a very disrupting thing to do unless the Ruidoso area was growing like crazy, clogging US-70 with traffic and creating more safety hazards.

I do like that part of New Mexico. More often I take US-82 through those mountains, going through places like Mayhill and Cloudcroft. As the Santa Fe area gets ever more fake and bake (as well as extremely expensive) I think a lot of people will look at the mountains in SE New Mexico as an alternative.

[texaskdog]

In Texas, the current routing serves several moderate-sized cities (Abilene, Midland, Odessa), whereas, if were to route it farther north, it would encounter only one decent sized (but granted larger) city, Lubbock. Also, its current routing allows it to avoid mountains.

Oh believe me....I know, Abilene has been a frequent stopping point on the way home several times over years.  I got pulled over by Texas Highway Patrol back in January about a mile from the US 84 junction where I was going to cut up to US 180 heading to Carlsbad.  Apparently being on I-20 at 6 AM was a weird thing since it was the first question the officer asked.  I was going 72 MPH when the patrolman literally went 30-40 MPH below the speed limit in the left lane to follow me.  He followed me a good thirty miles before pulling me over for following a truck too close at 500 feet right before I was about to pass as opposed to the "legal" 700 feet.

Back when I was a patrolman that's what I we called a "pretext stop."  Basically that means you want to pull someone over but you need to find a reason.  So basically you just follow someone until they have a traffic violation which usually is a mile or two.  Essentially the "purpose" of this is to stop people to ask for consent searches for drug stops or DUIs.  About the most interesting thing I had going on was a out of state tag on my rental car.  The officer asked me why I was up so early and basically the answer was simple; I was hitting both Carlsbad and Guadalupe Mountains National Parks for the day then heading to Las Cruces for the night....maybe even White Sands if I was so inclined which included getting up early to do.  Besides, 6 AM being weird on the Interstate?....WTF?    Best I could figure was that they must have some intel out about drug runners avoiding I-10 for I-20 or something?...who knows.  Anyways, I thought it was interesting that there was an actual "warning ticket" that they give you.

BUT....when I planned the return trip home from the work conference I planned on taking US 380 and US 70 out of Dallas.  Weather wasn't looking hot so I switched to US 180/62 instead since it had scenery I liked as well.  For what it's worth though, there might be so viability someday with the US 380/US 70 corridor having Interstate upgrades in some far flung future.

which is why Ill go as slow as possible til the cop gets bored and goes around me

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^ Yeah only problem is when I tried that I must have been the only non-commercial vehicle heading westbound.  It was a LONG time before he stopped me.

[US 41]

^^^ Yeah only problem is when I tried that I must have been the only non-commercial vehicle heading westbound.  It was a LONG time before he stopped me.

I would have gotten off at the next exit then. There's no way I'd let some prick cop follow me for no reason for 30 miles.

[jwolfer]

^^^ Yeah only problem is when I tried that I must have been the only non-commercial vehicle heading westbound.  It was a LONG time before he stopped me.

So the cop would follow off the exit and pull you over.  And if no services at the exit makes it more suspicious

^^^ Yeah only problem is when I tried that I must have been the only non-commercial vehicle heading westbound.  It was a LONG time before he stopped me.

I would have gotten off at the next exit then. There's no way I'd let some prick cop follow me for no reason for 30 miles.

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^ Yeah only problem is when I tried that I must have been the only non-commercial vehicle heading westbound.  It was a LONG time before he stopped me.

So the cop would follow off the exit and pull you over.  And if no services at the exit makes it more suspicious

^^^ Yeah only problem is when I tried that I must have been the only non-commercial vehicle heading westbound.  It was a LONG time before he stopped me.

I would have gotten off at the next exit then. There's no way I'd let some prick cop follow me for no reason for 30 miles.

Exactly, that's what I would have done if I was in the squad car assuming I had a reason by that point.  But still, it wasn't like I was acting suspicious....maybe having cruise control at 73 MPH is considered shady?    Besides out there in middle of western Texas there isn't much in the way of civilization to pull off on.  I figure he would have followed me up US 84 even.

[vdeane]

I think I read somewhere else of a case where a police officer considered the fact that a motorist was on I-20 instead of I-10 to be in and of itself suspicious; this would seem to confirm that.  I guess people had better make sure they have Texas plates if they're on I-20.

[Max Rockatansky]

I think I read somewhere else of a case where a police officer considered the fact that a motorist was on I-20 instead of I-10 to be in and of itself suspicious; this would seem to confirm that.  I guess people had better make sure they have Texas plates if they're on I-20.

I think next time I'll just jump on US 180 a lot closer to Fort Worth...EVEN MORE SUSPICIOUS...someone driving a US Route. 

[pumpkineater2]

Why would it be considered weird for out of staters to be on I-20 instead of I-10? The two highways go to different places, heck, I-20 goes to Dallas, a city of millions. Certainly they don't think it's unusual for someone from AZ or CA to travel to Dallas?

[Max Rockatansky]

Why would it be considered weird for out of staters to be on I-20 instead of I-10? The two highways go to different places, heck, I-20 goes to Dallas, a city of millions. Certainly they don't think it's unusual for someone from AZ or CA to travel to Dallas?

Out of state plate heading west on something other the main route of travel in a border state.  Say you're the officer, do you pick a local vehicle to follow?  Or do you follow something that doesn't look like it belongs and where it likely shouldn't be?  I wasn't in Dallas by then, I was west of Abeline which is really gets pretty remote. 

[wxfree]

Out of state plate heading west on something other the main route of travel in a border state.  Say you're the officer, do you pick a local vehicle to follow?  Or do you follow something that doesn't look like it belongs and where it likely shouldn't be?  I wasn't in Dallas by then, I was west of Abeline which is really gets pretty remote.

If you'd been on I-10, it would have been even more remote.  I-10 is the main route only for people headed to or from the Gulf Coast area.  If your origin or destination is anywhere north of there, I-20 is the better route, which is why it has substantially more traffic. I'm not trying to argue with you, but I think it's weird to consider driving on I-20 as suspicious.  Seeing Virginia plates on I-10 east of I-20 would be more suspicious to me.  It's closer to the border and more out of the way of the most likely line of travel. Even then, that suspicion is hard to justify.  They may have gone to New Orleans first, or may be headed to the Big Bend.  I can't imagine being that paranoid.

[US 41]

I've drove on I-20 from Big Spring to Pecos. I've also drove on US 90 from Van Horn to San Antonio, minus the section from Marfa to Marathon. I've never had any problems and I really don't see why it would be odd for someone from out of state to be in that area. If you're an American you have the right to be anywhere in this country you want to be.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't think you guys are getting what I'm trying to say....and I say from the perspective of being a former highway patrolman.  You have an out of state tag, on the unpopular route of travel...or at least not the one taken by most, you have someone who is going only 3 MPH over the speed limit, and it's at an unusual hour of the day being before sunrise.  Basically you're playing the "suspicious" activity looking for a much bigger fish than a normal speeding ticket and "plain-view doctrine" might yield.  You'd would all be amazed how often I would ask people if I could look in their trunk and they would let me do it...WHEN THEY HAD DRUGS or something else that would get them arrested.    It's amazing how few people even realize when an officer asks you to search your vehicle that you can tell them no.  At any point of time you can limit a consent search or just say "no."  Basically if you play the odds and work ignorance of the law it yield some pretty significant busts.

Funny...now I feel like I'm the one defending the trooper who pulled me over.    Obviously I don't think 6 AM is a strange hour but I know damn well that being someone who gets up at 4-4:30 AM that I tend not to be in the majority.  So by that extension under the same circumstances I might have been equally suspicious.  Now....I was going 73 MPH simply because I was about the only non-commercial vehicle on the road at the hour. 

[DJStephens]

It could be an old wive's tale, but I remember family members saying there were some provisional plans to route I-20 near Lubbock, thru Roswell and then to join I-10 in Las Cruces, but various land owners poo poo'ed that idea. If that scenario was true there would be plenty of candidates to thwart an I-20 path through their land. The Air Force might not have been so keen on a high traffic highway going through White Sands Missile Range. The Apache Tribe could have been against it. For whatever reason I-20 got routed down through Midland & Odessa to join I-10 near Van Horn. But I do think a Lubbock-Roswell and Las Cruces version probably would have been pretty good.

Not enough traffic counts in the 1944 - 1956 time period, when the original routes were being decided.  The military gobbled up a large portion of the Tularosa Basin for White Sands missile range, it would be impractible to have daily traffic stops for cross country traffic due to missile and other military tests which shut down the current US 70 route.   Gary Johnson (NM governor Jan '95 - Jan '03) did spend quite a bit on the US 70 corridor, but most of the work was crap.   A bit of forward thinking along with Interstate upgrade standards would have been far better.