Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[sprjus4]

If the HOT lanes are used for congestion management, then why is there constant slow down, even south of DC, but where the lanes go to? The HOT extension south is good news for carpoolers, and yes it may relieve the general purpose slightly, but new free lanes would be a much larger benefit. Yes, lots of projects lately, but as congestion continues, there needs to more projects done. In urban areas, where space is limited, sure HOT lanes could be the answer. But south of these urban areas, where there's additional room to widen, HOT lanes shouldn't be the solution right away. When there's no more room, then they could work.
North Carolina has higher taxes, but they get so much more freeways and other road projects done, for free. I-95 is a major corridor, and HOT lanes should not be the answer. These HOT lanes extensions keep coming. It's likely they'll keep proposing little and little more to eventually hit I-295. And yes, it is a money game. We pay taxes, but there hasn't been much improvements lately other than by DC and Hampton Roads. South of DC, a "tax-free" improvement is HOT lanes. Where do our taxes go? Just into more projects for DC and HR? And the money from the HOT lanes that are supposed to be used to improve I-95? I haven't seen any improvement besides more and more tolls. Hundreds could agree with me, I'm not the only one in this argument. Our money being paid in the taxes, and the HOT tolls should be showing some outcome.
If we did have higher taxes, projects like the 460 Windsor bypass, and many other highway related projects and locality projects could've gone forth instead of just being cancelled because VDOT can't fund because money shortfall, or completed with a toll, which the incentive to pay higher taxes for more roads and major improvements would increase. NC definitely sees their benefits of paying higher taxes. They continuously are able to fund more roads, highways, and limited amounts of tolls.   

The US-460 Freeway from Petersburg to Suffolk was a fully funded $1.4 billion project, and would be complete by now if not for the malfeasance of the T-Mac Regime.

VDOT has a $5.2 billion annual budget, and there are -many- projects being funded.

I regularly benefit from using HOT lanes as do many others despite the high tolls.  And they do either alleviate traffic levels or forestall traffic growth in the general purpose lanes.

There's lots of locality projects funded, but the 95 itself should be one, to widen with general purpose. HOT lanes are beneficial, and some will pay, those that can afford it. Other people can't afford, and wouldn't pay high tolls anyways, and VDOT is failing to fix the traffic 95, just adding a little bandage to the traffic, which are HOT lanes. Congestion points relieve, but not much. Like I said, HOT lanes work in urban areas, but in rural areas, the freeway needs to be widened for general purpose lanes. Just because some users benefit from the HOT lanes, while most choose to wait in traffic because they can't afford or just don't want to pay high tolls, doesn't mean 95 shouldn't be touched with new lanes. And fine, if they want this concept to work, for the love of god, why such high tolls? They don't get this high on I-64, and the lanes are beneficial here and affordable. Plus it's HOV 2+, not 3 for free travel.

I was also referring to the newer 460 bypass proposed just around Windsor, that could've easily been funded, for free. But it wasn't. Plus having higher taxes, that annual budget could increase, allowing even more projects to go forth.

[Beltway]

There's lots of locality projects funded, but the 95 itself should be one, to widen with general purpose. HOT lanes are beneficial, and some will pay, those that can afford it. Other people can't afford, and wouldn't pay high tolls anyways, and VDOT is failing to fix the traffic 95, just adding a little bandage to the traffic, which are HOT lanes. Congestion points relieve, but not much. Like I said, HOT lanes work in urban areas, but in rural areas, the freeway needs to be widened for general purpose lanes. Just because some users benefit from the HOT lanes, while most choose to wait in traffic because they can't afford or just don't want to pay high tolls, doesn't mean 95 shouldn't be touched with new lanes. And fine, if they want this concept to work, for the love of god, why such high tolls? They don't get this high on I-64, and the lanes are beneficial here and affordable. Plus it's HOV 2+, not 3 for free travel.
I was also referring to the newer 460 bypass proposed just around Windsor, that could've easily been funded, for free. But it wasn't. Plus having higher taxes, that annual budget could increase, allowing even more projects to go forth.

That shorter US-460 bypass of Windsor would have cost over $400 million, and would have emptied out onto the old substandard 4-lane undivided US-460, and as such that much money for the limited benefits would have been unjustified, IMHO.  Properly canceled.

When the HOT tolls get high that is intended to price enough traffic out of the lanes so that it will remain free flowing, that is about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour max.  Otherwise it would get bogged down into poor levels of service.

[sprjus4]

There's lots of locality projects funded, but the 95 itself should be one, to widen with general purpose. HOT lanes are beneficial, and some will pay, those that can afford it. Other people can't afford, and wouldn't pay high tolls anyways, and VDOT is failing to fix the traffic 95, just adding a little bandage to the traffic, which are HOT lanes. Congestion points relieve, but not much. Like I said, HOT lanes work in urban areas, but in rural areas, the freeway needs to be widened for general purpose lanes. Just because some users benefit from the HOT lanes, while most choose to wait in traffic because they can't afford or just don't want to pay high tolls, doesn't mean 95 shouldn't be touched with new lanes. And fine, if they want this concept to work, for the love of god, why such high tolls? They don't get this high on I-64, and the lanes are beneficial here and affordable. Plus it's HOV 2+, not 3 for free travel.
I was also referring to the newer 460 bypass proposed just around Windsor, that could've easily been funded, for free. But it wasn't. Plus having higher taxes, that annual budget could increase, allowing even more projects to go forth.

That shorter US-460 bypass of Windsor would have cost over $400 million, and would have emptied out onto the old substandard 4-lane undivided US-460, and as such that much money for the limited benefits would have been unjustified, IMHO.  Properly canceled.

When the HOT tolls get high that is intended to price enough traffic out of the lanes so that it will remain free flowing, that is about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour max.  Otherwise it would get bogged down into poor levels of service.

So basically, kick people out that aren't willing to pay as it continues to rise, dumping them onto the free lanes, causing even more congestion. And they are generally at $10+ during non-peak hours, which lots won't use them, putting them on the free 3 (south of Lorton). Back to congestion... no general purpose improvements done, few congestion relief. So like I said, a bandage to the problem, but not a full fix, which isn't coming any time soon, because this HOT lane concept which is being abused is all where it's at. Only relief mainly for the people willing to pay high, and the carpoolers, which more traffic is 1-2 people as opposed to the 3 needed. So more on the general purpose... more congestion. Got it

[sparker]

IIRC, HPC's, including #13, are eligible for up to 80% federal funding (I believe that extends to NHS routes as well).  Of course, there is absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that a single dollar will be forthcoming for any given project for any particular funding period; that's dependent upon the political moxie of a state's congressional delegation (and what they have to offer as incentive to get things through).  Things like Interstate designation can be slipped into funding bills usually without significant objection from elsewhere -- but when it comes to divvying up any available funds, it's another story.  But simply from their track record to date, NC's delegation have been quite busy and also quite successful in getting funds directed to their state; whether that's due to their inordinate ability to, as some site contributors claim, successfully market their bullshit, or have simply engaged in the age-old practice of "favor trading" with other venues, is debatable.  Their success at doing so over the years is not.  At this point, I don't see any additional intrinsic difficulty with their obtaining such financing for the I-87 corridor vis-à-vis what they have historically been able to amass.   And this time they can trot out an additional "cost-effective" argument based around the fact that much of work needed on the corridor consists of on-site modifications of about 55 miles of existing US 64; no significant ROW purchases necessary for that aspect of the total project.  As was iterated upstream, the singular thing that could upset this particular apple cart would be environmental objections regarding proximity to wetlands or waterways; if that doesn't emerge as an objection that can't readily be sidestepped, then in all likelihood the I-87 project will move forward one funding batch at a time until NC's portion is open for traffic.   

[Mapmikey]

There's lots of locality projects funded, but the 95 itself should be one, to widen with general purpose. HOT lanes are beneficial, and some will pay, those that can afford it. Other people can't afford, and wouldn't pay high tolls anyways, and VDOT is failing to fix the traffic 95, just adding a little bandage to the traffic, which are HOT lanes. Congestion points relieve, but not much. Like I said, HOT lanes work in urban areas, but in rural areas, the freeway needs to be widened for general purpose lanes. Just because some users benefit from the HOT lanes, while most choose to wait in traffic because they can't afford or just don't want to pay high tolls, doesn't mean 95 shouldn't be touched with new lanes. And fine, if they want this concept to work, for the love of god, why such high tolls? They don't get this high on I-64, and the lanes are beneficial here and affordable. Plus it's HOV 2+, not 3 for free travel.
I was also referring to the newer 460 bypass proposed just around Windsor, that could've easily been funded, for free. But it wasn't. Plus having higher taxes, that annual budget could increase, allowing even more projects to go forth.

That shorter US-460 bypass of Windsor would have cost over $400 million, and would have emptied out onto the old substandard 4-lane undivided US-460, and as such that much money for the limited benefits would have been unjustified, IMHO.  Properly canceled.

When the HOT tolls get high that is intended to price enough traffic out of the lanes so that it will remain free flowing, that is about 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour max.  Otherwise it would get bogged down into poor levels of service.

So basically, kick people out that aren't willing to pay as it continues to rise, dumping them onto the free lanes, causing even more congestion. And they are generally at $10+ during non-peak hours, which lots won't use them, putting them on the free 3 (south of Lorton). Back to congestion... no general purpose improvements done, few congestion relief. So like I said, a bandage to the problem, but not a full fix, which isn't coming any time soon, because this HOT lane concept which is being abused is all where it's at. Only relief mainly for the people willing to pay high, and the carpoolers, which more traffic is 1-2 people as opposed to the 3 needed. So more on the general purpose... more congestion. Got it

You haven't indicated how long you have been a Virginia resident so I don't know how much of the following you may or may not be aware...

Starting in the late 1990s Virginia spent 12 years increasing lane capacity on I-95 from Woodbridge to the Beltway before they ever did anything with HOT lanes. In hindsight the 4th lane should've gone to the Prince William Pkwy or Dale City but I assume $ was the issue.
VDOT put out for bid a 4th free lane from Garrisonville to about the Stafford Airport as an add-on to the Stafford Interchange project.  The bids were too high to include it though.
VDOT is greatly expanding the capacity of free lanes in the Mile 130-133 area (VA 3 and US 17).  This will eliminate a consistent source of backups in the free lanes that are regularly slow back to Garrisonville.
VDOT just spent billions to widen US 58 across the bottom of Virginia.
VDOT is working on a $2-4B project (Coalfields Expwy) in Southwestern Virginia.  Given the $5.2B annual budget this can't be done all at once or even quickly.
DC and Hampton Roads are able to tax themselves above what the state does for transportation and that money must be a pass through back to those districts.
Some sort of 3-2-3 HOT lane concept south of Fredericksburg would make no sense as it isn't long before you run into people wanting to commute the opposite direction
VDOT is the toll collecting authority for the I-66 HOT lanes being built outside the beltway
Virginia bought out the tolling authority for the recent VA 164 extension to I-264
VDOT built the express lanes on the Beltway east of the Springfield Interchange as free lanes.  They also got 90% of the beltway west of Springfield rebuilt for little cost as it was tied to construction of the HOT lanes there.
I-395 is getting its gap where free lanes drop for a couple miles eliminated so it will be 4 lanes throughout.
It appears that whenever a bridge along I-81 is replaced it is being replaced with a bridge wide enough to accommodate widening whenever $ becomes available to add lanes.....

My criticism of Virginia and its highway construction stuff is that after the big push to 4-lane most of the US highways in the 1970s, Virginia stopped making highway construction as big a priority.  By the late 90s or early 2000s, funding was such that upkeep of existing infrastructure was barely possible.  This has created a situation where a lot of stuff didn't get done that is only now getting addressed.  Virginia has hundreds of substantial bridges that are 70+ years old and they are now in earnest starting to replace them. 

The entire HOT lane premise is to encourage people to car pool so that you don't have to pay.  Since there was extra capacity built, those willing to pay can go there too.  When the price gets high its meant to be so that nobody pays it.  I know that HOT tolls in NoVa are higher than most other places because that is what the market will bear.  It's still way cheaper than moving close to DC.  In my opinion, the I-66 HOT lanes inside the beltway don't work as well because not enough capacity was added before they started tolling, so that road is never really free-flowing to start and tolls rise much quicker and much higher.

[Beltway]

My criticism of Virginia and its highway construction stuff is that after the big push to 4-lane most of the US highways in the 1970s, Virginia stopped making highway construction as big a priority.  By the late 90s or early 2000s, funding was such that upkeep of existing infrastructure was barely possible.  This has created a situation where a lot of stuff didn't get done that is only now getting addressed.  Virginia has hundreds of substantial bridges that are 70+ years old and they are now in earnest starting to replace them. 

Bridges built before 1948?  I see very very few, the vast majority of bridges built in the 1930s and before have long since been replaced.  The two recently replaced on US-301 in Sussex County were among the few holdovers, and they carry low volumes of traffic about 2,000 AADT.  The original major bridges over the James River are long since replaced, as are the old bridges over Shockoe Valley.

VDOT's annual construction budget dipped to about $700 million in the 1980s, and major tax increases in 1989 boosted that to over a billion, and I am not sure if it has been less than a billion since then, and that was a substantial sum for that time.   VDOT's biggest construction priority was to complete the Interstate system, which ended in 1992 with the completion of some of the most expensive segments (I-664 and I-264 tunnels, I-464 and I-295).  There have been the approx. 260 miles of Interstate and freeway widening projects that I mentioned earlier.  The annual construction budget is now about $2.0 billion.  As expensive as highway construction has gotten even that sum goes pretty quickly.

[Mapmikey]

My criticism of Virginia and its highway construction stuff is that after the big push to 4-lane most of the US highways in the 1970s, Virginia stopped making highway construction as big a priority.  By the late 90s or early 2000s, funding was such that upkeep of existing infrastructure was barely possible.  This has created a situation where a lot of stuff didn't get done that is only now getting addressed.  Virginia has hundreds of substantial bridges that are 70+ years old and they are now in earnest starting to replace them. 

Bridges built before 1948?  I see very very few, the vast majority of bridges built in the 1930s and before have long since been replaced.  The two recently replaced on US-301 in Sussex County were among the few holdovers, and they carry low volumes of traffic about 2,000 AADT.  The original major bridges over the James River are long since replaced, as are the old bridges over Shockoe Valley.

A sampling of larger ones...(source is https://bridgereports.com/va/)

US 1 Rappahannock River - 1945
VA 3 Rappahannock River - 1941
US 360 - James River - 1913
US 15/29 Bus - Rappahannock River - 1930
US 1 - S. Anna River - 1925 (widened 1937)
US 58 Bus - Smith River 1927

Some counties in Eastern Virginia (for example the Hampton Roads cities combined have about 20) don't have many bridges older than 1948 but most of the counties west of say US 15 have dozens apiece.  They are not all as long as say the US 301 Nottoway River bridge but they do need to remain upright.  US 11, US 60, VA 40 all have a bunch of smaller bridges that are old.

VDOT has definitely picked up the pace on replacing these vintage bridges (VA 6 for example has several 1930 bridges that have been done in the last 5 years) in the last decade.

[Beltway]

Bridges built before 1948?  I see very very few, the vast majority of bridges built in the 1930s and before have long since been replaced.  The two recently replaced on US-301 in Sussex County were among the few holdovers, and they carry low volumes of traffic about 2,000 AADT.  The original major bridges over the James River are long since replaced, as are the old bridges over Shockoe Valley.

A sampling of larger ones...(source is https://bridgereports.com/va/)
US 1 Rappahannock River - 1945
VA 3 Rappahannock River - 1941
US 360 - James River - 1913
US 15/29 Bus - Rappahannock River - 1930
US 1 - S. Anna River - 1925 (widened 1937)
US 58 Bus - Smith River 1927

All those have had major redeckings and have ratings that are adequate for the traffic levels.  All are on business routes or what are effectively business routes (all of US-1 for example), meaning lower importance as well as very little large truck traffic.  I don't have the exact figure but I will wager that 90% of the major old bridges have been replaced.  Some very old bridges remain adequate structurally and trafficwise.

The US-360 bridge is the Mayos Bridge over the James River in Richmond, a historic 4-lane bridge that will be rehabbed but not replaced, and was relegated to lessor traffic status when the 6-lane Manchester Bridge opened nearby in 1972 and replaced the 2-lane 9th Street Bridge.  Look at the number of modern James River bridges in the City of Richmond, I count six, the oldest is 6-lane I-95 built in 1958 but its superstructure was replaced in 2002.   Others are 4-lane VA-150 in 1990, 2-lane VA-147 in 2013, VA-76 in 1973 and widened to 10 lanes in 1990, 6-lane US-1/US-301 in 1989.  34 lanes on 6 modern bridges.

Some counties in Eastern Virginia (for example the Hampton Roads cities combined have about 20) don't have many bridges older than 1948 but most of the counties west of say US 15 have dozens apiece.  They are not all as long as say the US 301 Nottoway River bridge but they do need to remain upright.  US 11, US 60, VA 40 all have a bunch of smaller bridges that are old.
VDOT has definitely picked up the pace on replacing these vintage bridges (VA 6 for example has several 1930 bridges that have been done in the last 5 years) in the last decade.

I see that many of those bridges are in the 30 to 40 foot length range.  Small bridges on minor primary routes with low truck usage can remain usable for a very long time, in some cases.  Large numbers of old bridges have been replaced on those routes.

I was surprised to find that the US-301 Nottoway River bridge was built in 1928, but it was adequate for the traffic and didn't become structurally weak until the last few years.  Bypassed by I-95 in 1980, very low traffic and truck pct. since then.

[Mapmikey]

VA 3 bridge sufficiency rating is under 10...

The US 1 Rappahannock bridge has an AADT of 36,000 and while it is not teeming with semis, it does have an issue with a lot of idling traffic sitting on it vibrating the hell out of the bridge.  Some of the idling was alleviated with the recent Falmouth intersection improvement but I sit on it almost every afternoon heading the other direction.

I know these two bridges are on VDOT's radar though the US 1 bridge is still several years away from construction.  This will be a colossal pain when they get to it.

I really liked the US 301 Nottoway bridge.  I think it may be because the concrete railings were painted white making this very old bridge look new.

From 2006:

[Beltway]

VA 3 bridge sufficiency rating is under 10...
The US 1 Rappahannock bridge has an AADT of 36,000 and while it is not teeming with semis, it does have an issue with a lot of idling traffic sitting on it vibrating the hell out of the bridge.  Some of the idling was alleviated with the recent Falmouth intersection improvement but I sit on it almost every afternoon heading the other direction.
I know these two bridges are on VDOT's radar though the US 1 bridge is still several years away from construction.  This will be a colossal pain when they get to it.
I really liked the US 301 Nottoway bridge.  I think it may be because the concrete railings were painted white making this very old bridge look new.

Truss bridge, fisherman's railings.  Maybe could have retained it or part of it as a historical site, but US-301 would have had to be relocated at least 30 feet to the west.  New bridge built on same centerline.

Have you seen the Walkerton Bridge? 
https://www.shothotspot.com/hotspot/king-william-county-va-usa/walkerton-bridge

The US-1 Rappahannock River bridge is in the Six-Year Program --
http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/lineitemDetails.aspx?syp_scenario_id=233&line_item_id=1323257
Construction (CN)    $43,500    FY2025

The VA-3 bridge is on Bus. VA-3, the VA-3 East-West Connector was completed in the mid-1990s, that took the majority of the traffic.  So the old bridge has been bypassed and relegated to collector status.

The Bus. VA-3 Rappahannock River bridge is in the Six-Year Program --
http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/lineitemDetails.aspx?syp_scenario_id=233&line_item_id=1335017
Construction (CN)   $14,781   FY2021

[branched-out]

So, on I-40 in Raleigh just prior to Rock Quarry Rd, there's a new BGS overhead displaying I-40 to the right, I-440 and US-64 to the left.  Guess which new interstate isn't listed on the new sign?  And there doesn't appear to be room to add it later.   

[sprjus4]

So, on I-40 in Raleigh just prior to Rock Quarry Rd, there's a new BGS overhead displaying I-40 to the right, I-440 and US-64 to the left.  Guess which new interstate isn't listed on the new sign?  And there doesn't appear to be room to add it later.   

Is there anyway you could take a photo of it? I'm sure it's designed somehow to add the shield in later, like if the 440 and 64 ones are spread out some, they could be moved closer and the 87 one added, etc.

[branched-out]

Ha!  As I drove past it, I *knew* I should have turned around to get a picture, but didn't have time.  And I wanted to have a picture to post here, but also didn't want to wait too long.

I'll try to get a pic this weekend.

[sprjus4]

Ha!  As I drove past it, I *knew* I should have turned around to get a picture, but didn't have time.  And I wanted to have a picture to post here, but also didn't want to wait too long.

I'll try to get a pic this weekend.

Thanks. I don't live in that area so I wouldn't have a clue, except my last drive through there a few months ago. Lots of work on I-40 on their reconstruction project. All I know is that here in Virginia, no shield will be up any time soon 

[bob7374]

So, on I-40 in Raleigh just prior to Rock Quarry Rd, there's a new BGS overhead displaying I-40 to the right, I-440 and US-64 to the left.  Guess which new interstate isn't listed on the new sign?  And there doesn't appear to be room to add it later.   

Is there anyway you could take a photo of it? I'm sure it's designed somehow to add the shield in later, like if the 440 and 64 ones are spread out some, they could be moved closer and the 87 one added, etc.

Photos have been taken and posted on some NC related Facebook groups. The sign is also visible at times from the NCDOT traffic camera at Rock Quarry Road. The sign replacement plans for the I-40 Fortify project were approved several years before I-87 was designated, apparently since the signs were already made NCDOT allowed the contractor to put them up, even if outdated. There are to be replacement signs, such as on the plans below, that will be put up under a a separate project to update all the signs on US 64/264, I-40 and I-440 with I-87 shields. That project, hopefully, will be completed this year.

[jcarte29]

who wants to bet that those are up before I-285 NC signs? LOL

[sprjus4]

So, on I-40 in Raleigh just prior to Rock Quarry Rd, there's a new BGS overhead displaying I-40 to the right, I-440 and US-64 to the left.  Guess which new interstate isn't listed on the new sign?  And there doesn't appear to be room to add it later.   

Is there anyway you could take a photo of it? I'm sure it's designed somehow to add the shield in later, like if the 440 and 64 ones are spread out some, they could be moved closer and the 87 one added, etc.

Photos have been taken and posted on some NC related Facebook groups. The sign is also visible at times from the NCDOT traffic camera at Rock Quarry Road. The sign replacement plans for the I-40 Fortify project were approved several years before I-87 was designated, apparently since the signs were already made NCDOT allowed the contractor to put them up, even if outdated. There are to be replacement signs, such as on the plans below, that will be put up under a a separate project to update all the signs on US 64/264, I-40 and I-440 with I-87 shields. That project, hopefully, will be completed this year.

Thanks for the info. Would've been interesting if they included "Norfolk, VA" on the 87 BGS. as that is the major control city. I hope it will at least be added from the 95 interchange and points north, especially if they want traffic to remain on 87. I remember when I-95/85 in Richmond included "Atlanta" and "Miami" as control cities a few years ago, until replaced with new signs. Honestly, shields need to advertise long-distance destinations too, ones that are hundreds of miles away, like Atlanta and Miami. I still don't get why Rocky Mount is the control city on 95 in VA, it doesn't even go through Rocky Mount, you have to exit off and take another highway into Rocky Mount.

[Takumi]

Miami and Atlanta are still on one sign each. Atlanta is on the one between exits 54 and 53, and Miami is just past I-85.

[sprjus4]

Miami and Atlanta are still on one sign each. Atlanta is on the one between exits 54 and 53, and Miami is just past I-85.

Oh wow, I guess you're right. Shocking they put Atlanta on that new BGS just before I-85. And there's actually a few "Miami" on 95 south signs after. Still a shame they removed it at the main interchange at 85/95.

[LM117]

Thanks for the info. Would've been interesting if they included "Norfolk, VA" on the 87 BGS. as that is the major control city. I hope it will at least be added from the 95 interchange and points north, especially if they want traffic to remain on 87.

Adding it as a control city alongside Rocky Mount at the future I-87/I-587 split in Zebulon would be the way to go IMO.

I still don't get why Rocky Mount is the control city on 95 in VA, it doesn't even go through Rocky Mount, you have to exit off and take another highway into Rocky Mount.

Exits 138 and 145 border the city limits. I'd say that's close enough. It's also the first city south of Petersburg. While Emporia is "technically"  a city, in reality it's nothing more than a one-horse town with a hospital and a courthouse.

[Beltway]

Thanks for the info. Would've been interesting if they included "Norfolk, VA" on the 87 BGS. as that is the major control city. I hope it will at least be added from the 95 interchange and points north, especially if they want traffic to remain on 87.

Adding it as a control city alongside Rocky Mount at the future I-87/I-587 split in Zebulon would be the way to go IMO.

It would be a useless distraction at this point.  Hopefully intelligence will obviate this in the future.

I still don't get why Rocky Mount is the control city on 95 in VA, it doesn't even go through Rocky Mount, you have to exit off and take another highway into Rocky Mount.

You could say the same thing about Fayetteville or Florence.  Passes near the city but does not enter.

Exits 138 and 145 border the city limits. I'd say that's close enough. It's also the first city south of Petersburg. While Emporia is "technically"  a city, in reality it's nothing more than a one-horse town with a hospital and a courthouse.

Big city snobbery.  You could say the same thing about Elizabeth City or Williamston.  When you live in a rural county even a small city is a hub for shopping, medical services, entertainment, etc.

[LM117]

Exits 138 and 145 border the city limits. I'd say that's close enough. It's also the first city south of Petersburg. While Emporia is "technically"  a city, in reality it's nothing more than a one-horse town with a hospital and a courthouse.

Big city snobbery.  You could say the same thing about Elizabeth City or Williamston.  When you live in a rural county even a small city is a hub for shopping, medical services, entertainment, etc.

Don't know why you're worked up. I simply gave a reason why Rocky Mount was used as the primary control city for I-95 South rather than Emporia. It's not like I called it a dump. I'm also very much aware of what it's like living in a rural county. I spent nearly my entire life living in rural counties. Hell, I'm living in one right now.

[Beltway]

Exits 138 and 145 border the city limits. I'd say that's close enough. It's also the first city south of Petersburg. While Emporia is "technically"  a city, in reality it's nothing more than a one-horse town with a hospital and a courthouse.

Big city snobbery.  You could say the same thing about Elizabeth City or Williamston.  When you live in a rural county even a small city is a hub for shopping, medical services, entertainment, etc.

Don't know why you're worked up. I simply gave a reason why Rocky Mount was used as the primary control city for I-95 South rather than Emporia. It's not like I called it a dump. I'm also very much aware of what it's like living in a rural county. I spent nearly my entire life living in rural counties. Hell, I'm living in one right now.

Danville obviously would be a city by most any measure, though, with population of 43 thousand in the city and 106 thousand in the MSA.  Pittsylvania County has 63 thousand and that does not include Danville as that is an independent city.  That is 5 to 10 times the examples above.

[jwolfer]

What it boils down to is this:  NC is ready & willing to build their 90+% of the corridor's length, while VA by all indications has expressed a profound disinterest in any improvements to a Raleigh-Hampton Roads corridor.  As observers, we can hash out all the pros and cons of building any Interstate-grade route between those two locations ad nauseum, but, like so many projects in so many venues, it comes down to simple political will -- NC has it and is willing to direct it to projects such as this, while VA in general does not.  Whether VA's reluctance is warranted, given the almost perpetual needs of NoVA's suburb-serving network and its corresponding drain on resources, is a matter that will be germane to any attempt to plan, much less deploy, long-distance facilities elsewhere in the state (e.g., I-73).  But it was likely apparent 27 years ago when the first ISTEA-related High Priority Corridors were formulated, including #13, which is now the nascent I-87.  Not a direct connection by any means, but one that eventually proved politically feasible merely by its NC dominance.  Over the years, pretty much most of us on this forum formulated, even within our own minds, a US 58-based Interstate connector from Hampton Roads to I-95 & I-85 to give that metro area an efficient outlet to corridors heading south (essentially filling in an obvious gap); it was the most logical and reasonable route to utilize for that purpose.   Nevertheless, anyone familiar with VA political idiom likely consigned such a corridor to their own "fictional" compendium, realizing that the likelihood of it actually being done were slim & none.  NC became the beneficiary of that equation; they had their own row to hoe -- US 64 east of Raleigh -- and were more than willing to incorporate that within the overall "corridor to Norfolk" plan, since it had been built as a freeway (albeit not to Interstate criteria) out as far as Tarboro.  Hardly by coincidence, the section of 64 from Tarboro to US 17 does meet Interstate standards, being built after 1991, when HPC 13 was adopted.  I-87 isn't just a newfangled and fanciful way to divert traffic and possibly business to northeast NC; this plan has been fomenting within NC circles for a long while; they just "pounced" in 2016, coincidentally (maybe) at the quarter-century anniversary of the corridor's inception. 

As long as publicly-funded transportation facilities and the policy issues surrounding them remain a political football, things (shit?) like this will invariably happen.  Ironically, VA's long-noted commonwealth status may actually be the "saving grace" of that state's short portion of this corridor;  from the cites earlier in the thread, Chesapeake may actually be more interested in upgrading their portion than the state itself; it'll be interesting (and possibly amusing) to watch this play out.   

Pretty much. Everyone agrees I-95/US 58 is the shorter/better route, but Virginia will not make that a full interstate route and North Carolina knows that people program their GPS devices to follow all interstates, so it's a no brainer North Carolina would push for their route thanks to the void Virginia left.

Waze will try and keep you on interstates as much as it can... I take SR 19 from Orlando to Jacksonville area ant Waze will desperately try and route me back to I-4/95 routing, when it finally gives up the eta drops 10 minutes

Z981

[hotdogPi]

Waze will try and keep you on interstates as much as it can... I take SR 19 from Orlando to Jacksonville area ant Waze will desperately try and route me back to I-4/95 routing, when it finally gives up the eta drops 10 minutes

Z981

I've noticed the opposite; it will try to send you down very minor roads, and it is VERY sensitive to congestion.