US-41 Interstate Conversion

[merrycilantro]

and Illinois was the Playground bully and said No.

[NE2]

Illinois did the right thing. In my old Geocities site I extended I-55 to St. Louis via US 12 to Madison, US 151 to Cedar Rapids, and AOTS to St. Louis.

[merrycilantro]

They did in that I-55 would definitely not have fit into the grid, nor would have 57 or 65...and Thank GOD they didn't demote it to a 643 or 594. My whole point is that for continuity purposes, it would have made sense...but then, when I-43 was built to GB they definitely should have made it 57...but we can't go back and blame our grandparents LOL Thank God for GPS, and for Human GPS'es like us. and for the love of GAWD take down the covers! We know it's going to be I-41. We know they're gonna pass the bill...just do it and make us happy already! Just sayin

[Henry]

Maybe they're re-hashing the idea of calling it I-57 again...

I thought it was I-55 that Wisconsin interests were lobbying for.

I-55 was the original number that was asked for by Wisconsin.

In order for an I-55 extension to work, they'd have to reconstruct the interchange at I-90/I-94, which is very unlikely to happen because it would just be too complicated. And I-57 north of Milwaukee would be west of I-43 if they were to extend it onto US 41's path. Just goes to show how totally screwed up the grid is in this part of the country, as in IL alone, you have I-39, I-55 and I-57 serving it.

[triplemultiplex]

In order for an I-55 extension to work, they'd have to reconstruct the interchange at I-90/I-94, which is very unlikely to happen because it would just be too complicated.

I reject this assertion.  System interchanges should always be configured to best handle the local traffic (i.e. almost all of the traffic) demands.  Extending the I-55 designation would not increase traffic making that movement in any significant way.  The existing interchange provides free-flow access so it's fine.

[mrsman]

In order for an I-55 extension to work, they'd have to reconstruct the interchange at I-90/I-94, which is very unlikely to happen because it would just be too complicated.

I reject this assertion.  System interchanges should always be configured to best handle the local traffic (i.e. almost all of the traffic) demands.  Extending the I-55 designation would not increase traffic making that movement in any significant way.  The existing interchange provides free-flow access so it's fine.

Whether it's I-55 or I-57, any multiplex of a north-south number along the north-south section of I-94 between Chicago and Milwaukee would be a big improvement.  You take the Edens north to Milwaukee, so why is this referred to as I-94 west?

I-94 West/I-55 North (or I-94 West/I-57 North) would be a lot easier.

[english si]

I-41 North would also work, but sadly IL won't renumber US41 along the Skokie Highway (yet) - which would get it to nearly I-90...

[Lyon Wonder]

I-41 North would also work, but sadly IL won't renumber US41 along the Skokie Highway (yet) - which would get it to nearly I-90...

IMO, I-41 can be extended onto the I-294 tollway around Chicago to I-80/I-94 and meet the existing US 41 at Hammond, IN.  US 41 north of I-80/I-94 into IL through Chicago and it's northern suburbs to I-94 can be renumbered as either Alternate US 41 or Business US 41.

[FightingIrish]

More covered I-41 signs have been popping up like dandelions lately. The new NB entrance ramp from Watertown Plank Rd has BGS's with that part covered.

And all the major roads around the Zoo Interchange have ridiculous detour sign salad, for those occasional overnight closures. Here's one, in which the one covered sign is pretty obvious.

[Fox 11 News]

first collector lanes opening in Brown County

http://fox11online.com/2014/10/16/new-lanes-open-on-us-41-in-brown-county/

[SSOWorld]

More covered I-41 signs have been popping up like dandelions lately. The new NB entrance ramp from Watertown Plank Rd has BGS's with that part covered.

And all the major roads around the Zoo Interchange have ridiculous detour sign salad, for those occasional overnight closures. Here's one, in which the one covered sign is pretty obvious.

At least US 41 doesn't exist on that.

[Fox 11 News]

Oh, and the interchange of US 41 and Wis 47 / Richmond Street in Appleton is reopening today. That was the last bridge that needed to be raised crossing over 41 to get to interstate standards.

[jprocknow]

I'm happy to find this topic, although I'm probably too late.  My points seem to have been already discussed but I wanted to include my discussion with WisDOT because their logic and reasoning is asinine.
I'm against I-41 south of the Zoo; it's wasteful, it's confusing, it's unnecessary, and there's no logic behind it.  Personally, when I went to the public meeting, I thought a 3di made more sense since it was staying within the state.  I'm of the opinion that a 3di is no less important than a 2di and is just shorter.  There's not even a national consensus as to whether the 2di is the through route or is the city serving route and I hope everybody knows the examples.  But it would be the longest 3di in the country, even from the Zoo, and there's the awkward ending and beginning in Green Bay situation (aka north of Trenton, though soon to be rectified).  I don't see how a 2di makes it that much less awkward, but I digress.  Anyway, here's my conversation with WisDOT/FHWA, WI division and their replies:  (sorry for the length but I thought it was of interest.  How's that for a first post?  Hope I am not making a negative first impression...)
-IH 41 is planned to be east of IH 43, which is a violation of the Interstate numbering policy.
-- (DOT) I-41 follows the AASHTO guidelines of increasing route numbers west to east, with its location between I-39 and I-43.  (I guess they ignore the part south of I-43)
-extending the route into Illinois a fraction of a mile--all the while as another, much longer and already established interstate route exists for many miles in the same exact corridor--doesn't make sense in the interstate concept.  Interstates usually are linked directly with commerce and I would argue that routing IH 41 on IH 94 will not increase commerce, as it's already well-established.   Now new signs will have to be constructed on IH 94 for its entire concurrency for no real good reason.
--With the extension into Illinois, the I-41 route becomes a true interstate route.  (Cheaters, I guess we'll see I-43 get extended a mile into Illinois very soon then.  They should take a clue as to why IL doesn't want to sign I-41 any further than 0.9 miles)  The addition of I-41 to the I-94 corridor will allow the signing for cardinal direction to be north/south rather than the current east/west signing. This will reduce driver confusion.  (Finally, an end to the confusion that has plagued us for 50+ years!)  The purpose of this Interstate conversion project is to enhance economic development by converting US 41 to an Interstate highway. The extension along I-94 links the Fox Valley metropolitan areas and markets to the greater Chicago metropolitan area. Chicago is the economic epicenter of the entire Midwest and a key hub near the end of the I-41 corridor.  (I don't see how adding another shield connects the Fox Valley to Chicago any better, unless every control city SB is Chicago and NB is a Fox Valley city/Green Bay, I think most of us has GPS or maps and don't need our hands held all the way to our destination)
-Why a 2di instead of a 3di
--A loop route designation would not allow for any future Interstate loop designations in urban areas.  (Buffalo, Oakland, I-370, Tulsa are all in my head?)
-And 894, does it stay?
--I-894 will remain around Milwaukee.  The three digit route number lets the public know that the route is a bypass and will get them back to I-94.  It also allows us to keep the existing mile markers and exit numbers in place.  Signing is being designed to minimize driver confusion.
-What about the wrong way concurrency?  And all the other illogical arguments you're making and my points you're ignoring?  And the extra cost for new signs, including ones at the Mitchell you JUST put up?
--In general, FHWA feels it is reasonable to state that the items you have mentioned were taken into consideration during the evaluation process. 

[SEWIGuy]

And all the other illogical arguments you're making and my points you're ignoring? 

I'm sure that went over well.   

Look, I would have rather seen an extension of I-55 or I-57.  But I-41 is better than a 3di - there are a number of intrastate interstates.  The grid violation doesn't bother me.  (There are a number of such violations, and many, many USH violations.  It doesn't harm navigation.)  And it remains as "Highway 41."

[jprocknow]

I'm sure that went over well.   

Look, I would have rather seen an extension of I-55 or I-57.  But I-41 is better than a 3di - there are a number of intrastate interstates.  The grid violation doesn't bother me.  (There are a number of such violations, and many, many USH violations.  It doesn't harm navigation.)  And it remains as "Highway 41."

I hope it is clear those weren't direct quotes from me.  I was respectful but they seemed to have prepared answers and weren't interested in engaging me after I asked for clarification.
Those weren't listen in any particular order of importance, but I-41 south of the Zoo would be my main problem, because it encompasses the wasted manpower on signage and the wrong way concurrency.  Their reasons were not solid and sometimes just plain wrong.  That and being blown off is why I had some snarky tone in my post not present in the original communication.
As I write this, I'm trying to think of a place where two interstates terminate at each other, specifically 2di's as I already mentioned Trenton.  I'm sure there are no "intrastate" interstates that do that and probably for good reason.

[vtk]

55 and 12?

[adventurernumber1]

Dont I-94 and I-69 (Ik they terminate at least very close to each other)?

EDIT: I think we might be off-topic now, lol.

[jprocknow]

They terminate at the Canadian border together, but not into each other.
Back on topic, WI mutiplexing logic is dumb!

[mgk920]

As for 'I-41 south of the Zoo', the I-94/US 41 <-> I-894 (includes I-43 in a wrong-way concurrency) <-> US 45 <-> US 41 corridor is an important routing for through traffic transiting Milwaukee County between Chicagoland the Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton area and it is not unusual for people to get lost trying to follow that logical corridor with all of its route numbering changes - ESPECIALLY since 'US 41' is on the major highway on either side of Milwaukee County.  Right now, US 41 still uses Milwaukee city streets in between.

Having the same number ('I-41') on that entire corridor unifies that corridor (something that I've been on WisDOT's back about since at least the late 1980s), with an added bonus that it now gives much of that north-south corridor a proper 'north-south' interstate highway number.  I-94 is signed as 'east-west' between Chicago and Milwaukee, yet another big navigational confusion.

Even though, on the surface, extending 'I-41' southward to at least the IL/WI state line makes little sense to someone from outside of the western Lake Michigan region, there is some good madness to that method.

Mike

[FightingIrish]

Not to mention that the corridor is a major trucking route between Illinois, Milwaukee and the Fox River Valley. The numbering may seem awkward to out-of-staters, but it does make some sense to Wisconsinites. Certainly more than to anal-retentive grid enthusiasts.

[jprocknow]

I grew up in Milwaukee and still have lots of family there, so I'm always visiting.  I would still think it's confusing if I still lived there.  I'll grant you that I-94 is odd between Milwaukee and Chicago but it's been like that for 50+ years, before most vehicles came standard with GPS.  Besides, that's what control cities are for because not every E-W or N-S highways is traveling due E/W/N/S, marginally or not.
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that?  Unless Chicago will be a control city in Green Bay now and vice versa.  I bet most travelers who are unfamiliar with their travel route will research the route ahead of time because not every route is straightforward, especially nowadays.  I just don't understand the need to ensure one number from start to finish.  Interchanging between routes is not novel.

[merrycilantro]

What I am curious to know is Where is this Trenton that there is an awkward beginning and end that is soon to be rectified, and how are they rectifying it? I sort of feel like I'm adding fuel to the fire but I've searched this over and over on Google Maps and cannot figure out what or where this is.

[SEWIGuy]

I grew up in Milwaukee and still have lots of family there, so I'm always visiting.  I would still think it's confusing if I still lived there.  I'll grant you that I-94 is odd between Milwaukee and Chicago but it's been like that for 50+ years, before most vehicles came standard with GPS.  Besides, that's what control cities are for because not every E-W or N-S highways is traveling due E/W/N/S, marginally or not.

So which is it?  Is it going to be confusing?  Or is it going to be not that big of a deal due to GPS and control cities?  To be honest I think people are looking for reasons to be against I-41, other than simply being annoyed by an unnecessary duplex.  And really I can't get all that bent out of shape about that.

Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that? 

My guess is that they won't be changed at all.

[Zeffy]

What I am curious to know is Where is this Trenton that there is an awkward beginning and end that is soon to be rectified, and how are they rectifying it? I sort of feel like I'm adding fuel to the fire but I've searched this over and over on Google Maps and cannot figure out what or where this is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is referring to the Interstate 95 "gap" located north of Trenton, NJ. I-95 abruptly ends in two places near Trenton - one is right after exit 8 on the segment north of Trenton, and the other is on the New Jersey Turnpike right after exit 6 (going south). The gap was caused by a cancelled freeway that probably would've made congestion in central NJ a whole lot better. It will finally be eliminated once the Penna Turnpike and I-95 interchange near Bristol is complete in the next 4-6 years.

[DaBigE]

Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that?  Unless Chicago will be a control city in Green Bay now and vice versa.

Not entirely true. The Zoo is currently labeled for US 45 and Fond du Lac (technically not part of the Fox Valley). The new shield, in this case, will change quite a bit. The Marquette, OTOH, is labeled for Green Bay (via I-43).