What ever happened to people knowing the roads?

[roadman65]

At one time people all used to know the roads a lot better than they do now.  No EXIT ONLY or RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT signs were needed as most knew of a lane dropping to ramps without being told.  People who did not own cars, knew exactly where places were.  Every person in a gas station knew how to give directions out.  Cab drivers knew how to take you around without asking a local on the street to where the destination of theirs was.

Only us road geeks seem to know about the roads anymore, and we get flack for not having a life because we know even what was once common sense, now wasting our worries.  Has the human race gotten more ignorant over the past few decades?  I mean when I grew up in the seventies, everyone knew their whole community and how to get around.  Now I have people who live in Orlando with me who do not even know where other nearby cities are including the next door suburbs.

What ever happened to people knowing the roads?

[Zzonkmiles]

I think Mapquest, Google Maps, and GPS happened. Why bother learning about the roads themselves when you can have a machine print out the directions for you?

But I totally understand what you're saying. I think it's just another example of the dumbing down of society and how technology makes us lazy. 

[PHLBOS]

Someone else beat me to the punch but I'll post anyway.

One word answer: technology.

While such can be beneficial, it's gotten to a point now that people treat such like it's their life-support or dare I say it their drug.  They'll say, "I don't need to know such, my *insert Techo-gadget of choice here* will determine that for me".  And this ignorance is not just on the younger generation; I've seen similar, sadly, happen with people my age (48) and older when they utilize these devices more and more.

Similar can be said regarding people use to remembering phone numbers.  Before Speed-Dial and cell phone contact lists; people actually had to constantly remember various phone numbers.  Truth be told, I still remember most older phone number contacts (pre-cell phone) better than more recent contact numbers (post-cell phone).

Another reason (& a more overtly political one) is the continuing of the Dumbing-Down of America that's taken place over the last 2 to 3 decades.  Schools today seem to either seldom or no longer teach either geography nor critical thinking anymore.  Like it or not, that's a big part of the problem right there.

[Pete from Boston]

You're overstating the case.  People knew lane drops were coming up without an "exit only" sign?  That's ridiculous.

At the risk of fueling too much back-in-my-day-ism, people have transitioned to different skill sets.  How many people can skillfully replace a faucet or make bread from scratch?  These were basic life skills, once.  What you describe is neither unique nor dire, though.  People live differently today.

[spooky]

Whatever happened to predictability? the milkman, the paperboy, evening TV?

[roadman65]

I hate to admit, but you seem to have stumbled on to something there with "dumbing down."  Just recently I heard someone call in to a show, and actually met someone who had no idea what happened during World War II.  The caller said that he ran into someone who did not know about the fact that the Bombing of Pearl Harbor started the war, nor knew the even the event at all, along with how the war ended with us using nukes on two Japanese cities. The host said that either the pupil was not paying attention in school or our current education system is not teaching major events in American History.  It does make one think though about this after hearing this caller.

My take is that this world has gone too political and with the invention of technology it has caused us not to think for ourselves anymore.  When I was growing up party names were only names and when people discussed politics we judged the person himself and not the parties.  We actually had to wait till we saw our friends in person to converse, as now you have texting where we do it constantly.  We went to work and never snuck into corners to use our phones like we do now.  We kept our private lives private and at work we interacted with our jobs and coworkers and that was how it was done.  We learned a lot from our chats with coworkers and sometimes even customers.

You may be right there.

[adventurernumber1]

I am 14 and I am on technology a good bit, but I know loads about roads and definitely more than most people. Once I get a car and start driving there's no way I'm getting lost. My 16 year old cousin gets lost around town but I would be able to drive my way around the Atlanta Metro Area without getting lost (which I don't even live in, but I'm close). I still wouldn't get lost driving around 600 miles south of where I live. I love stuff like Google Maps but I still know my stuff. In early elementary school I was never in gifted, but I knew all the capitols long before the gifted people did. The teachers were amazed. People definitely need to know about the roads, not just roadgeeks.

[1995hoo]

I'd say the points PHLBOS makes extend also to cashiers making change. You ever see a cashier at a fast-food place or similar trying to make change when for whatever reason the cash register malfunctions? They often can't do it. They rely completely on the machine calculating the change for them. (If I pay cash, more often than not I've calculated the change in my head before the cashier has even punched in the amount of money.)

I think the "technology" answer is part of the issue. I've found it's not all that unusual for businesses in more rural areas to tell you to ignore your navigation device's directions, often because the device will use a more direct route that uses undesirable roads. (Example: Linden Vineyards south of Linden, Virginia, tells you to ignore your device if you're coming from the east because many of them send you over a switchbacked gravel road that winds up taking longer than the paved road further west even though the paved road is further distance-wise.) Yet people still show up grumbling about their sat-nav directions.

Another thing I think might factor in is higher gas prices and heavier traffic. I think one reason people used to know the roads better is that even into the early 1980s it still wasn't unusual for families to go for a "Sunday drive," whether just an aimless drive or one with a specific destination in mind. When you went out wandering around, you'd find new roads and you might remember them if they prove useful. The higher cost of gas these days (regardless of whether it's "real" in proportion to your income or just perceived) is a serious deterrent. So is traffic, coupled with the expanding suburbs (both factors obviously related to each other)–if it takes an hour to get out into the countryside when it used to take 20 minutes, that's got to be a deterrent, and if people are less-inclined to go out driving simply for pleasure, exploring the roads, I think they'll be less likely to know the roads.

Highway expansion might be another factor, too. Invariably people gravitate to the bigger highways. Look at how many people get flummoxed on a longer drive if the route takes them off the Interstate. I think when "the big roads" come through, people tend just to default to those (maybe for convenience, maybe because they don't know another route, maybe because they PERCEIVE them as faster) and they tend to overlook the other routes. It astonishes me how many newer residents of Northern Virginia–I've lived here since 1974–only know one or two ways to get anywhere. I guess that's good for me that they don't know all the back routes!

PHLBOS's point about phone numbers makes me laugh ruefully because a few weeks ago it occurred to me that I know the phone number for the flooring company Luna better than I know my own wife's work phone number, even though I have never called Luna, don't ever plan to, and have never done business with them. But I hear their annoying jingle pretty much every night because they run commercials during Washington Nationals TV broadcasts and their jingle consists of their phone number (similar to "Empire Today," who have been around for years). I'd have to stop and think to try to remember my wife's work number, in part because she usually calls me rather than the other way around (and when she does, the number on the caller ID is different from her direct-dial number).

....

Only us road geeks seem to know about the roads anymore, and we get flack for not having a life because we know even what was once common sense, now wasting our worries. ....

What amuses me about this is that the same people who ridicule you for knowing the roads and knowing umpteen different ways everywhere are the first ones to call you looking for an alternate route when they get stuck in traffic. My brother once called me asking for help because he was stuck due to an overturned truck somewhere. I wanted to say, "Hey, why are you calling me? I thought it was enough to know one route to get everywhere. You know your one route because you're using it now." (I didn't, but I wanted to.)

[jeffandnicole]

I disagree as well about exit onlys and lane drops.  They simply weren't signed as well in the past.  It's impossible to tell a lane just exits without being told.

In many cases, there's just more out there to see and do.

Take your gas station attendant example.  The person working there didn't graduate college with a degree in finding things.  You are talking to an average, everyday Jane or Joe that may not even live in the local area.  If you ask them how to get to one of the most popular attractions or hotels in the area, they can probably get you there.  If you ask them how to get to a lesser known attraction you found on the internet, chances are that gas station person isn't aware of the lesser known attraction either. 

As far as WW II...well, while I don't know what age you are, that may have been more recent history when you were in school.  Remember...WWII happened 70 or so years ago now.  In the past few decades, you have 9/11, Iraq War, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf War, and several dozen other wars.  Or, in other words - there's more history to cover.  WWII was, quite frankly, a long time ago.  It's what people studied 30 years ago.  Today, they will study the wars that happened within the past 30 years.

[1995hoo]

I don't even really remember World War II being a big topic when I was in school, though everyone knew a lot about it. I always found in history classes the teachers spent way too much time on the colonial era and then had to rush to get through other things (an exception being in fourth grade Virginia history because the War Between the States is such an important part of Virginia history).

I think the high-school class that spent the most time on World War II was an elective class I took my senior year, the AP modern European history class. (I graduated from high school in 1991.)

[roadman65]

Well I can contest to the part about suburbs being farther now time wise then they once were.  I moved to South Orlando in 1990 when it took five to ten minuets to go from what is now Southchase to the Florida Mall.  Now it can take 20-25 minuets because of the sprawl between Orlando and Kissimmee.  US 17, 92, & 441 was semi rural with few lights and only four lanes.  Now its very close to urban with many signals, and six lanes still not enough to handle the increase in traffic. Mind you that John Young Parkway that is nearby is also six lanes where you would figure that the drive from Orlando to Kissimmee should be more of a picnic than it was with only one four lane highway in 1990 between those two points.  However, sprawl brings more motorists and now both Orlando and Kissimmee are one continuous metro area where as before you had rural areas in between and were once both two different distinct urban areas.

Bottom line is the fact that what people once did conveniently is not so much anymore.  What was once close is not at all close.  Gas prices going up too added to that making frequent trips less frequent or none at all now to what you once did daily.  I used to go to the beach a lot, but now I am lucky if I get to it once a year.

[Zeffy]

When I went to Camden a few weeks ago, there was a bunch of roads closed for the Puerto Rican Day Parade in the city. Upon leaving the Aquarium, I decided to get a drink before I drove home (because it was really hot out), so I purchased one from a hot dog stand vendor outside the Aquarium. I wasn't an experienced Camden-driver before, so I asked "do you know how to get back to 676 from here, since half of the roads were closed?" God damn, that man knew his stuff. He gave me perfect directions, as if he was holding a map. He even remarked Broadway Street turned in to I-676 practically. It's the only time I really needed directions, but we can't all memorize cities that you won't visit more than once or twice a year, right?

[jeffandnicole]

It's also easy to generalize an entire class of people.  10,000 motorists can successfully find their way someplace, but if one person is lost, we tend to generalize the entire group of motorists as people that can't find their way either.

It also works the other way...most people in here think of themselves as people that know the roads quite well.  But reflect on nearly any roadmeet, and guaranteed someone got lost! :-)

[bzakharin]

When I first started driving last year (I'm not a teenager, but it's a long story), this coincided with a major job search, where I often had to drive to unfamiliar places (come to think of it, just about any place was unfamiliar then), my father went with me to a few places the weekend before the interview, and made me memorize every lane change I had to make. Guess what? I was rearended at one of these places because I slowed down looking for my left turn (I did have the GPS on and it didn't help because there were many left turns into businesses on that road).

Since then, I stopped memorizing unfamiliar routes. Not that I stopped looking them up ahead of time and remembering approximate directions, but no more memorizing every lane change. I use the GPS on unfamiliar routes, but even when I don't, I often don't remember precisely whether a given exit is a right or left exit (I'm talking freeways here), for example. I've never missed an exit because of not knowing that. When I do miss an exit, it never happens more than once. I've missed 2 exits so far, both on roads I know extremely well, both because I was passing another car. On one I had to make two U-turns, losing a grand total of 5 minutes. On the other I was punished with cheaper gas. Plus I found out you can use a particular service area as an exit.

I think I'm a pretty typical driver now.

[spooky]

I'd say the points PHLBOS makes extend also to cashiers making change. You ever see a cashier at a fast-food place or similar trying to make change when for whatever reason the cash register malfunctions? They often can't do it. They rely completely on the machine calculating the change for them. (If I pay cash, more often than not I've calculated the change in my head before the cashier has even punched in the amount of money.)

I've had countless examples where I confused a cashier by giving change in anticipation of the change I would get in return.

Example: Total comes to $4.87. I give the cashier $5.02, in anticipation of getting a nickel and a dime back instead of a dime and three pennies. The cashier looks puzzled and says "it was $4.87" and then I explain to them the change they're supposed to give back to me. I've said that there will come a day when fast food places will go out of business, because they attract the stupidest people, and that class of people is too stupid to work at a fast food place.

As far as WW II...well, while I don't know what age you are, that may have been more recent history when you were in school.  Remember...WWII happened 70 or so years ago now.  In the past few decades, you have 9/11, Iraq War, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf War, and several dozen other wars.  Or, in other words - there's more history to cover.  WWII was, quite frankly, a long time ago.  It's what people studied 30 years ago.  Today, they will study the wars that happened within the past 30 years.

I agree completely. I learned a lot more about WWII then about WWI because at the time it had been 40 years since WWII and 70 years since WWI. WWII and its aftermath was also still somewhat relevant because the Berlin Wall was still up and we were in the midst of the Cold War.

[bzakharin]

When I went to Camden a few weeks ago, there was a bunch of roads closed for the Puerto Rican Day Parade in the city. Upon leaving the Aquarium, I decided to get a drink before I drove home (because it was really hot out), so I purchased one from a hot dog stand vendor outside the Aquarium. I wasn't an experienced Camden-driver before, so I asked "do you know how to get back to 676 from here, since half of the roads were closed?" God damn, that man knew his stuff. He gave me perfect directions, as if he was holding a map. He even remarked Broadway Street turned in to I-676 practically. It's the only time I really needed directions, but we can't all memorize cities that you won't visit more than once or twice a year, right?

There is no Broadway Street in Camden. It's just Broadway. Sorry, but this redundancy thing a pet peeve of mine, and I know places where actual Broadway Streets exist, so I'm happy Camden got it right.

[Zeffy]

There is no Broadway Street in Camden. It's just Broadway. Sorry, but this redundancy thing a pet peeve of mine, and I know places where actual Broadway Streets exist, so I'm happy Camden got it right.

Yeah, I see that now. I love it how every other street in the city has a suffix except for Broadway...

[1995hoo]

I'd say the points PHLBOS makes extend also to cashiers making change. You ever see a cashier at a fast-food place or similar trying to make change when for whatever reason the cash register malfunctions? They often can't do it. They rely completely on the machine calculating the change for them. (If I pay cash, more often than not I've calculated the change in my head before the cashier has even punched in the amount of money.)

I've had countless examples where I confused a cashier by giving change in anticipation of the change I would get in return.

Example: Total comes to $4.87. I give the cashier $5.02, in anticipation of getting a nickel and a dime back instead of a dime and three pennies. The cashier looks puzzled and says "it was $4.87" and then I explain to them the change they're supposed to give back to me. I've said that there will come a day when fast food places will go out of business, because they attract the stupidest people, and that class of people is too stupid to work at a fast food place.

....

Very true. I've had that happen as well, and on at least one occasion my explanation got me nowhere and the guy insisted on giving me back the amount in excess of the round dollar amount before he rang the transaction (so if it were $4.56 and I gave him $5.06, he insisted on giving me back the 6¢, THEN ringing the $5.00 sale, then counting out 44¢ in change to give me), even after I pointed out to him that if he rang $5.06 he could just give me back 50¢ and it'd be easier for him. "You only owe $4.56, so I don't need this 6¢." 

That sort of thing is one of several reasons why prefer the automated check-out lane at the grocery store!

[hbelkins]

20 years ago, when there was no Street View and I was traveling in an area for the first time, how would I know that there was a lane drop without signage? I wouldn't.

[Pete from Boston]

20 years ago, when there was no Street View and I was traveling in an area for the first time, how would I know that there was a lane drop without signage? I wouldn't.

Now that there's street view, you check all the lanes ahead of time?

[The Nature Boy]

20 years ago, when there was no Street View and I was traveling in an area for the first time, how would I know that there was a lane drop without signage? I wouldn't.

Now that there's street view, you check all the lanes ahead of time?

I think that the singling out of lane dropping signs was a bit erroneous. I've never seen a map that would indicate them either so I'm not sure how you would know that a lane dropped unless you've been in the area before.

And GPS are most helpful when you already know the route and just want something to make sure you're on track. I would NEVER EVER EVER use them a primary means of navigation.

[jeffandnicole]

One of the things I dislike about GPSs and online maps is that it'll get you to the front door of the destination.  Unfortunately, people frown upon driving your vehicle thru the front door.

Out of the way directions to the front door seems to hold true especially on roads with medians or barriers.  If I follow the GPS blindly, many times they route me up to the next intersection, make a u-turn, and backtrack to the destination.  Yet, the destination was on the corner of the previous intersection, where I could've made a simple left turn and entered the driveway via that side street.

[formulanone]

It's also easy to generalize an entire class of people.  10,000 motorists can successfully find their way someplace, but if one person is lost, we tend to generalize the entire group of motorists as people that can't find their way either.

Pretty much this - when I'm on a job site, I'll ask the locals about a good place to eat, and more often than not, they'll give good or even great directions. I'll re-check on my computer or map if the directions made no sense or weren't clear. Granted, I'm usually in a site in the automotive industry, so these are folks who probably enjoy driving somewhat. For folks that find driving to be a chore and a daily hassle, you'd probably get a less enthusiastic response, from a roadgeek's perspective.

The oversight of one careless doofus does not a society make. Too often this board relates every GPS error as the decline of civilization - we're not exactly 15th Century sailors nor equipping ourselves for a South Pole "expotition". We're a bunch of folks with varying amounts of interest in many things involving routes and it's a pretty specific interest with a tiny overall percentage of fans.

I'll be honest, I don't spend much time checking out every detail of an area until right before I might visit it. Personally, I don't have enough time in my day to research a city or route in which I have no immediate business nor interest in. Even then, there's no guarantee I'm not going miss a light, have to make a U-turn, miss an exit, go left instead of right at the fork (although sometimes these are intentionally curious reasons or other distractions).

[realjd]

20 years ago, when there was no Street View and I was traveling in an area for the first time, how would I know that there was a lane drop without signage? I wouldn't.

Now that there's street view, you check all the lanes ahead of time?

I think that the singling out of lane dropping signs was a bit erroneous. I've never seen a map that would indicate them either so I'm not sure how you would know that a lane dropped unless you've been in the area before.

And GPS are most helpful when you already know the route and just want something to make sure you're on track. I would NEVER EVER EVER use them a primary means of navigation.

GPSs are most useful IMO for last-mile navigation in unfamiliar urban/suburban areas where street names and address numbers are poorly marked, if at all.

[1995hoo]

GPSs are most useful IMO for last-mile navigation in unfamiliar urban/suburban areas where street names and address numbers are poorly marked, if at all.

I kind of like having the display giving the distance and estimated time to my destination when I'm on a long drive or when I need to be somewhere by a particular time and it's not somewhere I go on a regular basis.