Interstate 11

[noelbotevera]

California needs interstates. Period. They are almost like an eastern state (at least the western portion is). Rural AZ, NM, UT, NV, CO, and western Texas (all of what I consider the SW) do not. As mentioned before interstates in western states need to be built through or around cities. I don't think interstates should built through the middle of no where. I'm okay with 4 lane highways. I feel like like I'm speaking a different language than some of you.

I'm going to go ahead and take a page out of the Autobahn's book, and say that high speed limits should be the primary goal here (besides the movement of cargo). You can't achieve high speeds and be guaranteed some degree of safety without grade-separated junctions. Freeways allow fast, efficient and safe movement of cargo, something that isn't necessarily achievable with at-grade highways.

Also, California is hardly the only western state that needs Interstates. I-5 between BC and Tijuana is arguably more important than the 95 back east, given how few alternatives there are for traversing between the two locations (not to mention locations in between -- outside of California, Seattle and Portland are very large cities which would be inoperable without their interstates).

Best alt I-5 gets is CA 905 between the Mexico Int. Line and I-805, nothing between I-805 and I-10 at the East LA Int., US 101 between I-10 and Olympia, nothing between  Olympia and WA 99 at Fife, then WA 99 again until WA 20 to WA 9 in Seedro-Woolley, and WA 539 in Bellingham. I-5 has suitable alternates, but they can be far away (example: I-5 to US 101 in the Bay Area - you have to take 90 miles of I-80 between Sacramento and San Francisco).

I-95 on the other hand has iffy alternates too because US 1 drifts away from I-95 in the South and is a high traffic corridor north of Philadelphia.

[kkt]

US 101 is not really a suitable alternative all that way.  Google Richardson Grove.  Also look at California coast north of Eureka, and Oregon and Washington.  A lot of the way it's a twisty 2-lane road.  Scenic and fun to drive in a car but definitely no substitute for an interstate for trucks.

North of Sacramento, CA 99 to US 97, then a gap, then US 97 north makes the closest thing to an alternate, but it's way inland and across a mountain range where the passes are fairly regularly closed by weather in the winter.

[TheStranger]

Best alt I-5 gets is CA 905 between the Mexico Int. Line and I-805, nothing between I-805 and I-10 at the East LA Int.,

The alternative to I-5 from San Diego to Los Angeles - while not immediately direct or parallel - seems to be I-15 to Route 91 to Route 71 to Route 60.  (Alternatively, as a long-distance bypass, 15-91-71-57-210 works to avoid all but a sliver of LA itself)

[nexus73]

US 101 is not really a suitable alternative all that way.  Google Richardson Grove.  Also look at California coast north of Eureka, and Oregon and Washington.  A lot of the way it's a twisty 2-lane road.  Scenic and fun to drive in a car but definitely no substitute for an interstate for trucks.

North of Sacramento, CA 99 to US 97, then a gap, then US 97 north makes the closest thing to an alternate, but it's way inland and across a mountain range where the passes are fairly regularly closed by weather in the winter.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/richardson_grove/

Tons of links to explore this long-delayed project are available, including the 2001 freeway alternative.

Rick

[Sub-Urbanite]

Nobody's saying the west needs to be criss-crossed with a dozen more interstates. But it's reasonable to say that an I-5 alternate for freight from Portland to Phoenix is warranted. It's reasonable to say I-9 should be built-out from Red Bluff to Bakersfield. It's reasonable to extend I-40 to I-5. It *might* be reasonable to build a freeway from Winnemucca to Boise if the states really really really want it and will help pay. And it's reasonable to say that these projects won't get cheaper over time so better to start them now, since we couldn't do them in the 1960s.

[kkt]

US 101 is not really a suitable alternative all that way.  Google Richardson Grove.  Also look at California coast north of Eureka, and Oregon and Washington.  A lot of the way it's a twisty 2-lane road.  Scenic and fun to drive in a car but definitely no substitute for an interstate for trucks.

North of Sacramento, CA 99 to US 97, then a gap, then US 97 north makes the closest thing to an alternate, but it's way inland and across a mountain range where the passes are fairly regularly closed by weather in the winter.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/richardson_grove/

Tons of links to explore this long-delayed project are available, including the 2001 freeway alternative.

Rick

A bypass is the only solution for Richardson Grove.  101 there is a small, winding road that's perfect for a road through a state park.  It just needs a route around it for through traffic.  Taking out a tree here and a tree there is never going to make it a good route for trucks, but it will make it a much less good state park.

Nobody's saying the west needs to be criss-crossed with a dozen more interstates. But it's reasonable to say that an I-5 alternate for freight from Portland to Phoenix is warranted. It's reasonable to say I-9 should be built-out from Red Bluff to Bakersfield. It's reasonable to extend I-40 to I-5. It *might* be reasonable to build a freeway from Winnemucca to Boise if the states really really really want it and will help pay. And it's reasonable to say that these projects won't get cheaper over time so better to start them now, since we couldn't do them in the 1960s.

Not even that many.  I-9 from Wheeler Ridge to Sacramento.  North of Sacramento, not really needed.  Winnemucca to Boise, how much traffic is there on US 95?  Portland to Phoenix?  What's the freight market there?

Possibly CA 14 and US 395 from Santa Clarita to Reno.  North of Reno not really needed.  In the long term, the intermountain west does not have resources for too much more growth.  They're running out of water.

I-11, I guess they got Congress to say so, so Phoenix to Las Vegas.  But it doesn't need to go north of Las Vegas, and it doesn't need to be a big fishhook around Phoenix to Tuscon -- let Arizona make its beltways state routes.

[silverback1065]

Is I-9 really going to replace SR 99? (when the whole thing is a freeway)

[myosh_tino]

Is I-9 really going to replace SR 99? (when the whole thing is a freeway)

Maybe.  Caltrans was pretty gung-ho on the idea about 5 years ago but as they studied what it would take to bring CA-99 up to Interstate standards (vertical clearances, shoulder widths, etc), I think the desire to pursue the conversion has cooled quite a bit.

[silverback1065]

Why not i-7?

[US 41]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the necessity of I-11 overall.

If I-11 is built along a new route to the Mexican border I think having it roughly parallel AZ 80 from Benson to Douglas / Agua Prieta would make a lot more sense than having it go to Nogales. It would make a slightly better trade route from Nevada / Arizona to places like Cd. Chihuahua, Torreon, Cd. Durango, and Saltillo.

A little off topic, but can American (and Canadian) truck drivers deliver stuff in Mexico past the free zone? Is there a process for temporarily importing semis into Mexico similar to car permits? I know the US is now allowing Mexican trucks on the roads.

[noelbotevera]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the necessity of I-11 overall.

If I-11 is built along a new route to the Mexican border I think having it roughly parallel AZ 80 from Benson to Douglas / Agua Prieta would make a lot more sense than having it go to Nogales. It would make a slightly better trade route from Nevada / Arizona to places like Cd. Chihuahua, Torreon, Cd. Durango, and Saltillo.

A little off topic, but can American (and Canadian) truck drivers deliver stuff in Mexico past the free zone? Is there a process for temporarily importing semis into Mexico similar to car permits? I know the US is now allowing Mexican trucks on the roads.

I believe both countries allow you to go only 25 miles north/south of the border for trucks. That's why AZ 289 is a popular truck route - it's where a ton of warehouses are and the last chance to get a truck border crossing to return to Nogales. It's also south of the 25 mile cap.

[US 41]

I found the answer.

Mexican truckers will be able to carry goods deep into the United States, and vice versa, under a deal signed Wednesday in Mexico City to keep a 17-year-old promise.

A driver bringing goods from Canada or Mexico may transport those goods to one or several locations in the United States, and may pick up goods from one or several U.S. locations for delivery to Canada or Mexico, but the driver may not load, haul, or deliver a cargo that is both picked up and dropped off at a destination within the United States.

Example: If you're a Mexican you can take a load from San Luis Potosi to Duluth. The driver can also pick up a load in Duluth (or any other American town) that has a destination of Mazatlan.
It is illegal for the Mexican driver to pick up a load in Duluth and deliver it to San Antonio. The load must have a destination in Mexico.  (The same rules also apply to Canadians).

*An additional law for Mexicans is that they must be able to read and speak English to operate a semi in the US. Whether or not Mexico has a similar law for Americans (knowing Spanish) is something I haven't been able to find an answer to. 

The same rules for deliveries also apply to American truck drivers in Canada and Mexico.

[andy3175]

Is I-9 really going to replace SR 99? (when the whole thing is a freeway)

Maybe.  Caltrans was pretty gung-ho on the idea about 5 years ago but as they studied what it would take to bring CA-99 up to Interstate standards (vertical clearances, shoulder widths, etc), I think the desire to pursue the conversion has cooled quite a bit.

The focus appears to be to convert existing four-lane expressway segments to six-lane freeway. A significant project near Madera will result in elimination of a lengthy expressway segment with at-grade intersections. As these projects are completed, I think political leaders will again revisit the cost of upgrading other sections of SR 99 to Interstate standards. As to whether SR 99 will become I-7 or I-9, who knows. The state is evidently in no hurry to rename SR 905 as I-905 and SR 15 to I-15 despite having prior AASHTO approval. SR 210 is another example of non conversion. This is why SR 58 (as opposed to some future extension of I-40 if/when SR 58 meets modern Interstate standards) will probably be with us for a long time to come regardless of freeway improvements between Barstow and Bakersfield ... unless politics come into play.

[roadfro]

Back on topic of I-11...

Seems like some support has built for eventually extending I-11 north from Las Vegas.

House panel backs northern extension of Interstate 11 (Las Vegas Review Journal, 10/22/2015)

The House Transportation Committee approved legislation Thursday that could pave the way for construction of a highway directly linking Las Vegas and Reno.

The measure was included in a broader highway funding bill that would spend up to $325 billion on transportation projects over the next six years – provided lawmakers can find a way to pay for the final three years.

The bill offers no direct funding for the proposed I-11 northern extension, but does establish the project as a priority – a designation welcomed by Nevada lawmakers who say it will eventually lead to federal funding. Reps. Cresent Hardy, R-Nev., and Dina Titus, D-Nev., who serve on the committee, supported the designation.

...

Similar language is included in the Senate version of the bill, making it more likely that the designation will be included in any final version of the bill that Congress might eventually approve.

By no means is this final, but sure looks like momentum is gaining towards making I-11 more of a long-haul route.

[Sub-Urbanite]

By no means is this final, but sure looks like momentum is gaining towards making I-11 more of a long-haul route.

Now if we could just get some traction in your friendly northern neighbor.

[The Ghostbuster]

Here is my two cents: In Las Vegas, I would have Interstate 11 follow the existing Interstate 515/US 93-95 corridor. Once Interstate 11 is complete between Las Vegas and Wickenburg, I would truncate the US 93 designation to Interstate 15's exit 64 north of Las Vegas. As for Interstate 11 going beyond Las Vegas, I would regulate that to Fictional Highways, because to me it seems less likely to be constructed than the Las Vegas to Phoenix route.

[vdeane]

Here is my two cents: In Las Vegas, I would have Interstate 11 follow the existing Interstate 515/US 93-95 corridor. Once Interstate 11 is complete between Las Vegas and Wickenburg, I would truncate the US 93 designation to Interstate 15's exit 64 north of Las Vegas. As for Interstate 11 going beyond Las Vegas, I would regulate that to Fritz Owl, because to me it seems less likely to be constructed than the Las Vegas to Phoenix route.

Fixed

[Scott5114]

Fritzional Highways

[FreewayDan]

A map from a Pima County webpage pertain to a proposal to extend I-11 to Tucson shows it ending at I-19 rather than I-10.  Another freeway is shown in south Tucson connecting I-19 with I-10 and it is numbered Interstate 510.

http://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/Image/News%20-%20Work/1307%20July%20News/130813%20Pima%20County%20supports%20study%20of%20interstate%20highway%20link.jpg
http://webcms.pima.gov/cms/One.aspx?pageId=40775

[SD Mapman]

A map from a Pima County webpage pertain to a proposal to extend I-11 to Tucson shows it ending at I-19 rather than I-10.  Another freeway is shown in south Tucson connecting I-19 with I-10 and it is numbered Interstate 510.

http://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/Image/News%20-%20Work/1307%20July%20News/130813%20Pima%20County%20supports%20study%20of%20interstate%20highway%20link.jpg
http://webcms.pima.gov/cms/One.aspx?pageId=40775

Why not 219?

[andy3175]

A map from a Pima County webpage pertain to a proposal to extend I-11 to Tucson shows it ending at I-19 rather than I-10.  Another freeway is shown in south Tucson connecting I-19 with I-10 and it is numbered Interstate 510.

http://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/Image/News%20-%20Work/1307%20July%20News/130813%20Pima%20County%20supports%20study%20of%20interstate%20highway%20link.jpg
http://webcms.pima.gov/cms/One.aspx?pageId=40775

In the conceptual map, I wonder why they do not attempt to have I-11 and I-510 tie into each other at the same interchange. It seems like that would allow those using I-11 to avoid downtown Tucson to reconnect with I-10 east of Tucson via the I-510 connector as a smooth transition.

[FreewayDan]

A map from a Pima County webpage pertain to a proposal to extend I-11 to Tucson shows it ending at I-19 rather than I-10.  Another freeway is shown in south Tucson connecting I-19 with I-10 and it is numbered Interstate 510.

http://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/Image/News%20-%20Work/1307%20July%20News/130813%20Pima%20County%20supports%20study%20of%20interstate%20highway%20link.jpg
http://webcms.pima.gov/cms/One.aspx?pageId=40775

Why not 219?

Or I-610 or I-810?

[vdeane]

A map from a Pima County webpage pertain to a proposal to extend I-11 to Tucson shows it ending at I-19 rather than I-10.  Another freeway is shown in south Tucson connecting I-19 with I-10 and it is numbered Interstate 510.

http://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/Image/News%20-%20Work/1307%20July%20News/130813%20Pima%20County%20supports%20study%20of%20interstate%20highway%20link.jpg
http://webcms.pima.gov/cms/One.aspx?pageId=40775

In the conceptual map, I wonder why they do not attempt to have I-11 and I-510 tie into each other at the same interchange. It seems like that would allow those using I-11 to avoid downtown Tucson to reconnect with I-10 east of Tucson via the I-510 connector as a smooth transition.

If you look closely, you can see that the intent is to take I-11 all the way down to Mexico via a ridiculous overlap with I-19.

[kkt]

A map from a Pima County webpage pertain to a proposal to extend I-11 to Tucson shows it ending at I-19 rather than I-10.  Another freeway is shown in south Tucson connecting I-19 with I-10 and it is numbered Interstate 510.

http://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/Image/News%20-%20Work/1307%20July%20News/130813%20Pima%20County%20supports%20study%20of%20interstate%20highway%20link.jpg
http://webcms.pima.gov/cms/One.aspx?pageId=40775

In the conceptual map, I wonder why they do not attempt to have I-11 and I-510 tie into each other at the same interchange. It seems like that would allow those using I-11 to avoid downtown Tucson to reconnect with I-10 east of Tucson via the I-510 connector as a smooth transition.

If you look closely, you can see that the intent is to take I-11 all the way down to Mexico via a ridiculous overlap with I-19.

Yeah, that would be pointless.  If I-11 wanted to reach a border it should be at Sonoyta, not duplexed with I-19.

Or I-11 could just end at Gila Bend and call it a day.

[vdeane]

Given that the whole point of taking it to a border is so that freight trucks don't need to do complicated things like "turn onto I-11 from I-19", they probably want to match up with the MX 15D corridor.