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Roadways that are potentially overbuilt

Started by iBallasticwolf2, May 24, 2015, 08:14:53 PM

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roadman65

Quote from: froggie on May 26, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
Not sure where roadman got his information from, but as bitmapped noted there are plenty of counties without traffic signals.  Vermont has two and Minnesota has at least one (probably more).

You mean a North Eastern State actually has counties with no signals?  That is hard to believe considering all the population and the fact there is at least one big intersection in every county I would figure.

Anyway, I was speaking in probability anyway.  I have been through Kenedy County and I mention that because of its small population and US 77 being its only through road.   Every place I traveled, even in Western Kansas where some counties had only one city in them, had at least one signal within that.

Yes, I should have said probably in my sentence.  Anyway, the point being that the taxpayers could be using the US 77 upgrade to interstate for building other much needed road or making improvements in some of the big metro areas.  It could still survive as a North American Truck route the way it is, as I do not think development will ever come to Kenedy County.
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Sheryl Crowe


hbelkins

Quote from: froggie on May 26, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
Not sure where roadman got his information from, but as bitmapped noted there are plenty of counties without traffic signals.  Vermont has two and Minnesota has at least one (probably more).

At least two in Kentucky that I know of, both fairly close to me -- Menifee County (Frenchburg) and Elliott County (Sandy Hook), although it should be noted that Sandy Hook had a signal at the intersection of KY 7 and KY 32 in my youth, but it was removed sometime prior to 1980. Kentucky's total was at least three until year before last, when politicians overrode traffic engineers and had a signal installed in Owsley County (Booneville).


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Avalanchez71


Mapmikey

AFAIK, Virginia still has 8 counties with no stoplights: Bath, Bland, Charles City, Craig, Fluvanna, Highland, Mathews, Rappahannock

Floyd, Surry, Cumberland, Dickenson, King and Queen, and Nelson have exactly 1

Mike

PHLBOS

Quote from: SteveG1988 on May 24, 2015, 11:34:06 PMPA 413's Exit for I-95. Was at one time the northern end of I-95 and still remains configured as a freeway end, just with the actual freeway branching off.
IIRC, that stub to PA 413 was originally planned to be extended northeasterly to the PA Turnpike at the Delaware Valley (US 13) interchange (the Turnpike trumpet ramps would've likely remained as is but the ramp alignments & toll plazas beyond would've been altered/reconfigured and/or relocated). 

This was the original I-95/PA Turnpike connection plan that was scrapped once the planned Somerset Freeway/I-95 in NJ was canned circa 1982; volume-related issues (w/through I-95 movements on/off the Turnpike) and the at-grade intersection w/PA 413 were the likely reasoning.
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bzakharin

I think NJ-133 is overbuilt in its current state. It's pretty much a freeway to nowhere (formerly from nowhere to nowhere, but at least it connects to the NJ Turnpike on one end now). Even if traffic volume justifies the freeway, the bottleneck simply moves to whatever exits are used off of it

Mr_Northside

I don't think I've seen mention of the Birmingham Bridge here in Pittsburgh.  A 6-lane beast that only connects some 2-lane roads together.
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cl94

Quote from: roadman65 on May 26, 2015, 11:09:53 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 26, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
Not sure where roadman got his information from, but as bitmapped noted there are plenty of counties without traffic signals.  Vermont has two and Minnesota has at least one (probably more).

You mean a North Eastern State actually has counties with no signals?  That is hard to believe considering all the population and the fact there is at least one big intersection in every county I would figure.

Anyway, I was speaking in probability anyway.  I have been through Kenedy County and I mention that because of its small population and US 77 being its only through road.   Every place I traveled, even in Western Kansas where some counties had only one city in them, had at least one signal within that.

Yes, I should have said probably in my sentence.  Anyway, the point being that the taxpayers could be using the US 77 upgrade to interstate for building other much needed road or making improvements in some of the big metro areas.  It could still survive as a North American Truck route the way it is, as I do not think development will ever come to Kenedy County.

Hamilton County in New York has no signals. I should probably mention that it's the least-dense US county east of Texas.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

SteveG1988

US 206 Bypassing Columbus NJ, no need for it to be a small freeway, keeping it as a 4 lane  road would have served the same purpose.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Takumi

Quote from: Mapmikey on May 26, 2015, 12:40:01 PM
AFAIK, Virginia still has 8 counties with no stoplights: Bath, Bland, Charles City, Craig, Fluvanna, Highland, Mathews, Rappahannock

Floyd, Surry, Cumberland, Dickenson, King and Queen, and Nelson have exactly 1

Mike
Where's the one in Cumberland? It's been a few years since I've been through it but I don't remember any traveling north-south through the county.

Charles City had a temporary signal over a bridge replacement on VA 5 a few months ago, but I'm assuming you're not considering temporary signals or flashing beacons.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

silverback1065

I-74/465 interchange on the SE of Indy.  It was built with the expectation that the area was going to see explosive growth...which has yet to happen.  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7326649,-86.04322,16z

froggie

QuoteWhere's the one in Cumberland? It's been a few years since I've been through it but I don't remember any traveling north-south through the county.

The part of Farmville north of the river is in Cumberland County.  There's a signal at VA 45/SR 600 there.

SteveG1988

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 26, 2015, 09:58:33 PM
I-74/465 interchange on the SE of Indy.  It was built with the expectation that the area was going to see explosive growth...which has yet to happen.  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7326649,-86.04322,16z

Thing is...with Interchanges it is better to go big than go small near a city. You never know if you can ever get the approval later on.


Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

cl94

Quote from: SteveG1988 on May 27, 2015, 08:02:29 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 26, 2015, 09:58:33 PM
I-74/465 interchange on the SE of Indy.  It was built with the expectation that the area was going to see explosive growth...which has yet to happen.  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7326649,-86.04322,16z

Thing is...with Interchanges it is better to go big than go small near a city. You never know if you can ever get the approval later on.

I wouldn't say that's overbuilt. WB/SB flyover is necessary because it carries an Interstate designation while the other flyover is smart to have because it's effectively a freeway terminus. If anything, it's overpowered to/from the west.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

iBallasticwolf2

Quote from: cl94 on May 27, 2015, 08:10:25 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on May 27, 2015, 08:02:29 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 26, 2015, 09:58:33 PM
I-74/465 interchange on the SE of Indy.  It was built with the expectation that the area was going to see explosive growth...which has yet to happen.  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7326649,-86.04322,16z

Thing is...with Interchanges it is better to go big than go small near a city. You never know if you can ever get the approval later on.

I wouldn't say that's overbuilt. WB/SB flyover is necessary because it carries an Interstate designation while the other flyover is smart to have because it's effectively a freeway terminus. If anything, it's overpowered to/from the west.

I don't like how there is only 1 through lane on I-74 in that interchange with the flyovers
Only two things are infinite in this world, stupidity, and I-75 construction

SteveG1988

Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on May 27, 2015, 09:07:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on May 27, 2015, 08:10:25 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on May 27, 2015, 08:02:29 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 26, 2015, 09:58:33 PM
I-74/465 interchange on the SE of Indy.  It was built with the expectation that the area was going to see explosive growth...which has yet to happen.  https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7326649,-86.04322,16z

Thing is...with Interchanges it is better to go big than go small near a city. You never know if you can ever get the approval later on.

I wouldn't say that's overbuilt. WB/SB flyover is necessary because it carries an Interstate designation while the other flyover is smart to have because it's effectively a freeway terminus. If anything, it's overpowered to/from the west.

I don't like how there is only 1 through lane on I-74 in that interchange with the flyovers

That is normal on a lot of flyovers that carry the main line of a interstate. I'd rather have that than have the I-55 merge onto the Memphis-Arkansas Bridge or how I-57 is dumped onto I-55 via a traditional cloverleaf.

Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

I-39

Quote from: 1 on May 24, 2015, 10:04:35 PM
Quote from: I-39 on May 24, 2015, 09:01:45 PM
Wisconsin in particular seems to think every single major route needs to be a full blown freeway or a high-quality expressway

Basically a smaller-scale FritzOwl?

Pretty much. Look at their Connections 2030 plan if you don't believe me.

flowmotion

I-280 in San Francisco is one of the rare urban freeways that is never congested (except at the end). It's mostly 8 lanes, but probably could be 4 without major issues.

https://goo.gl/maps/uHrzR

STLmapboy

Teenage STL area roadgeek.
Missouri>>>>>Illinois

CapeCodder

Quote from: roadman65 on May 25, 2015, 12:44:12 PM
I-278 in Linden, NJ over Park Avenue was built with the wide median covered to make it one long underpass underneath instead of two separate bridges for the two carriageways.    That is because the super wide median was to be an express lane configuration had I-278 been completed west of US 1 & 9 to connect with its parent in Springfield, NJ.

I always wondered what the larger plans were for 278.

Sctvhound

Quote from: roadman65 on May 26, 2015, 01:34:50 AM
Since I-95 got built in SC, US 301 is not used much south of Santee.  However, it remains a four lane road from I-95 Exit 97 to the Savanah River which under today's traffic counts using that stretch, does not even warrant it.

Just look at all the abandoned Fireworks stands that still line US 301 south of Orangeburg, and it will tell you how much of a drop in traffic occurred since I-95 opened for business.

Yup. Definitely an example there. US 52 north of US 17A and definitely north of SC 45 (St. Stephen) up to Kingstree is another one. Four lanes even though it goes from 20K cars a day to 5,000 in maybe 10 miles or so. Very little traffic in that part of South Carolina between Williamsburg County and the Charleston metro.

jp the roadgeek

#46
Quote from: vdeane on May 24, 2015, 09:53:29 PM
I think I-11 outside of the Vegas/Phoenix corridor may become a future example of this.

I imagine there are quite a few cases where freeways weren't completed.  CT 25 and the Dunn Memorial Bridge come to mind.

I'm going to merge two of your thoughts here and nominate the most overbuilt freeway known to man: CT 11.  A 4 lane, 65 MPH road that ends abruptly with little fanfare in the small towns of Colchester and Salem.  Yes, it was going to extend to I-95, but it was cancelled, save for the mile markers, after 45 years of non-action.  Honorable mentions to SR 695, and the 2 vestiges  of I-84 to Providence: I-384, and the US 6 Willimantic bypass. 
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

wanderer2575

Quote from: cl94 on May 24, 2015, 08:30:13 PM
I could swear we had a thread on this somewhere.

For the I-94 example, the arch is structural. Each ~200 ft span was designed for 4 lanes plus full shoulders on both sides. To avoid placing a support in the center, you'd need extremely deep I-beams (requiring the freeway to be raised another 3-4 feet) or have a system that redirects either the compressive or tensile forces. In this case, the arch carries the load, greatly reducing the required depth of the I-beams. Is it aesthetically pleasing? Certainly, but there's probably a good reason why they avoided the 6-7 foot I-beams you'd otherwise need.

This bridge (at the US-24 interchange) was deliberately intended to be a visual spectacle, so it's a bad example for the thread topic.  It was built as part of an I-94 reconstruction project in 2005, and intended to be a "gateway" for visitors traveling into Detroit from Metro Airport.  The "gateway" idea came about because Ford Field was hosting the Super Bowl in February 2006, which is the reason the connections between the arches were designed to resemble footballs.  The previous bridge was in poor condition and needed to be replaced as part of the reconstruction project anyway.  The tied arch design of the new bridge cost about $2 million more than a traditional girder bridge would have, and most of the additional cost was covered by private donations.

Also, since they went for the tied arch design, MDOT constructed a single-point interchange which meant there couldn't be a center support.

I-55

Quote from: STLmapboy on September 16, 2020, 09:38:00 PM
Thread bump:

Is this flyover strictly necessary?

I remember once upon a time HB said something about coal trucks going down the hill, I'll let HB clear that up.
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kphoger

Quote from: I-55 on September 17, 2020, 01:34:28 PM

Quote from: STLmapboy on September 16, 2020, 09:38:00 PM
Thread bump:

Is this flyover strictly necessary?

I remember once upon a time HB said something about coal trucks going down the hill, I'll let HB clear that up.

I think you're getting two separate posts by him confused.  The two locations are actually about 25 miles apart.

Quote from: hbelkins on October 12, 2011, 01:52:13 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on October 12, 2011, 01:49:05 PM
This one is close to there in Inez, KY. This is a typical intersection for KY 3 and KY 645 except there is a flyover to stay on KY 3 NB:

http://g.co/maps/wfnqj

I haven't been there since that was built. I never really understood the need for it, but I think it was done to keep traffic staying on KY 3 north from  pulling across four lanes of traffic, so I guess it was justified for safety reasons.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
There are also plans to build a grade-separated interchange at KY 3 near Louisa. (Which, in my view, is a total waste of money. The current signalized intersection is at the bottom of a long downhill grade going north and the exit is being built, supposedly, to keep coal trucks from running the red light and slamming into vehicles that have the green on KY 3. I'd solve that by spending a few thousand dollars to put a mandatory truck stop at the top of the hill, instead of millions for an interchange.)
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