Illinois notes

[SEWIGuy]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

[Crash_It]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

[JoePCool14]

Drove through the Jane Byrne JCT last night on the Dan Ryan going north, pretty impressed by everything. 4 through lanes with a 2 lane split off for the local exits, its essentially a mini express lane section from Roosevelt/Taylor to Ohio St. Part of me thinks there will be some resurfacing to be done next summer as some sections are still a little rough.

In the spring they will be doing northbound resurfacing from the end of the new concrete to ~Ohio street.  They got the southbound part done this year but not northbound. I assume it was delayed because of this summer's materials strike that prevented asphalt and concrete work from happening for ~1 month it.  They can do resurfacing with only nighttime lane closures so that shouldn't cause major traffic impacts.

I was miffed at the site of "Dusable Lake Shore Drive" on a sign at the I-55 interchange.  Please IDiOT, leave it alone!

How about you worry more about your state fixing up their miles of beat up roads rather than IDOT doing the right thing by recognizing the founder of a city.

Nobody in their right mind would call it anything but Lake Shore Drive or LSD.

Only reason people are against it is because of the color of his skin. I remember similar objections being made about Ida B Wells Dr. Not as many people would flip out if it were renamed to Richard J Daley Lake Shore Drive.

I do the the thing as well in two of my latest videos and one upcoming one as well (possibly two).

My opinions on renaming things is outside the scope of this thread and forum, but I assure you that my problem with renaming Lake Shore Drive to "DuSable Lake Shore Drive" is not with skin color.

Also, whether you support the renaming or not, the BGS patches that IDOT made look bad.

So you don't think that calling IDOT IDiOT for recognizing the founder of a state's largest city to be inappropriate? Especially when considering that IDOT has accomplished more in the last few years than WiSDOT. Miles upon miles of WIS32 which is a major tourist route destination is in disrepair while in IL the same tourist route has been resurfaced.

Stop. Just stop.

If you want to believe IDOT is the greatest DOT of all time and WisDOT is the devil, go right ahead. But as someone who's now working in the industry, and gets to deal with IDOT's workflow, I can assure you: IDOT has a massive list of issues, albeit many of which aren't inherently its fault (Illinois is broke and corrupt, after all).

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

US-12 in Lake County
US-45 in Lake County
I-94 (Edens Expressway) in Cook County
I-290/I-90 Interchange in Cook County
US-20 in NW Illinois
I-80 in the south suburbs

Shall I go on?

[SEWIGuy]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

[JoePCool14]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

[Crash_It]

Drove through the Jane Byrne JCT last night on the Dan Ryan going north, pretty impressed by everything. 4 through lanes with a 2 lane split off for the local exits, its essentially a mini express lane section from Roosevelt/Taylor to Ohio St. Part of me thinks there will be some resurfacing to be done next summer as some sections are still a little rough.

In the spring they will be doing northbound resurfacing from the end of the new concrete to ~Ohio street.  They got the southbound part done this year but not northbound. I assume it was delayed because of this summer's materials strike that prevented asphalt and concrete work from happening for ~1 month it.  They can do resurfacing with only nighttime lane closures so that shouldn't cause major traffic impacts.

I was miffed at the site of "Dusable Lake Shore Drive" on a sign at the I-55 interchange.  Please IDiOT, leave it alone!

How about you worry more about your state fixing up their miles of beat up roads rather than IDOT doing the right thing by recognizing the founder of a city.

Nobody in their right mind would call it anything but Lake Shore Drive or LSD.

Only reason people are against it is because of the color of his skin. I remember similar objections being made about Ida B Wells Dr. Not as many people would flip out if it were renamed to Richard J Daley Lake Shore Drive.

I do the the thing as well in two of my latest videos and one upcoming one as well (possibly two).

My opinions on renaming things is outside the scope of this thread and forum, but I assure you that my problem with renaming Lake Shore Drive to "DuSable Lake Shore Drive" is not with skin color.

Also, whether you support the renaming or not, the BGS patches that IDOT made look bad.

So you don't think that calling IDOT IDiOT for recognizing the founder of a state's largest city to be inappropriate? Especially when considering that IDOT has accomplished more in the last few years than WiSDOT. Miles upon miles of WIS32 which is a major tourist route destination is in disrepair while in IL the same tourist route has been resurfaced.

Stop. Just stop.

If you want to believe IDOT is the greatest DOT of all time and WisDOT is the devil, go right ahead. But as someone who's now working in the industry, and gets to deal with IDOT's workflow, I can assure you: IDOT has a massive list of issues, albeit many of which aren't inherently its fault (Illinois is broke and corrupt, after all).

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

US-12 in Lake County
US-45 in Lake County
I-94 (Edens Expressway) in Cook County
I-290/I-90 Interchange in Cook County
US-20 in NW Illinois
I-80 in the south suburbs

Shall I go on?

What's wrong with 12 &45? They were smooth the last time I drove them. 12 in Walworth county WI is exponentially worse.

45 had several resurfacing projects within the last few years.

I94 is fine except for that one pothole near the old orchard bridge...894 in Milwaukee County is worse.

I290-90 was just recently worked on and finished, I have a whole video on it

US20 has one stretch in Eleroy that needs some TLC, I imagine it being taken care of in the coming season. Same thing with 80.

[Crash_It]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

[JoePCool14]

What's wrong with 12 &45? They were smooth the last time I drove them. 12 in Walworth county WI is exponentially worse.

45 had several resurfacing projects within the last few years.

I94 is fine except for that one pothole near the old orchard bridge...894 in Milwaukee County is worse.

I290-90 was just recently worked on and finished, I have a whole video on it

US20 has one stretch in Eleroy that needs some TLC, I imagine it being taken care of in the coming season. Same thing with 80.

US-12 and US-45 are severely underbuilt for the traffic volumes that use them. For one, US-12 needs to be 6-laned, at least in the southern Lake County sections. It would also be nice to see some more efficient planning: less signals, less left-turn phases, more grade-separation where possible, more innovative designs like Michigan lefts, better signage, etc. But Illinois doesn't really do a whole lot of innovation. Right now, US-12 is a slog. US-14 is also a slog for similar reasons. US-45 just straight-up needs to be 4-laned throughout almost all of Lake County. It's only two lanes as far south as IL-22!

The Edens is a severely out-of-date design that was built decades ago. While the capacity is alright, the amount of cloverleafs and the lack of proper accel./decel. lanes along with other poor safety features make the road rather dangerous. It needs a complete modernization, or at the very least, a rebuild with basic safety improvements.

The 90/290 interchange did see some improvements, but at the end of the day it's still a cloverleaf. It's also pretty sketchy when congested.

US-20 is underbuilt out west. Ideally, it should be 4-laned all the way to Dubuque, but at the very minimum, rebuilt with wider shoulders, larger curve radii that actually meet the design speed, and more passing lanes. US-20 at night can be sketchy when you have little margin for error and big-rig trucks are barreling down on you from the opposite direction.

I want to make one final point about pavement smoothness. While it's important, it is not the only criterion for determining whether a DOT is good or not. Also, a lot of IDOT's resurfacing is just a simple grind and relay of a few inches. It makes the road smoother, yes, and I'd rather have it than not, but the underlying road structure is still in bad shape. The cracks and settling end up mirroring through to the surface within a few years. Rebuilding a road, which WisDOT does a lot more of, is way better than a simple asphalt overlay.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

As previously stated, road smoothness isn't everything. Wisconsin has plenty of roads that need to be resurfaced, but so does Illinois.

[Crash_It]

As previously stated, road smoothness isn't everything. Wisconsin has plenty of roads that need to be resurfaced, but so does Illinois.

Wisconsin has more.

[SEWIGuy]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

That's quite the goalpost shift. So you can criticize roads when you drive on them? So if someone has driven on LSD, they can criticize the naming?

At least try to be logical OK?

[Crash_It]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

That's quite the goalpost shift. So you can criticize roads when you drive on them? So if someone has driven on LSD, they can criticize the naming?

At least try to be logical OK?

Rough pavement is actually a valid concern rather than a name which is to commemorate the founder of the largest city in the state.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Nah, he's called out Illinois posters who have critiqued the roads accusing them of not knowing what they're talking about or having a hatred of their own state.

[Hobart]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

That's quite the goalpost shift. So you can criticize roads when you drive on them? So if someone has driven on LSD, they can criticize the naming?

At least try to be logical OK?

Rough pavement is actually a valid concern rather than a name which is to commemorate the founder of the largest city in the state.

Pavement quality doesn't matter if you can't read the name of a road you're trying to get to; "Jean-Baptiste Pointe DuSable Lake Shore Drive" is two mouthfuls, and even half of it causes a lot of clutter on navigational signs.

Chicago has plenty of other streets and expressways they can rename that aren't the most famous street in the city, and won't cause a name that makes it difficult to read signs. My personal preference is Columbus Street, he's not too in favor these days, and there's already a Columbus Avenue in the southwest part of the city (near Hometown). Heck, they could have even given him the interchange at the Stevenson and the Dan Ryan, or the merge with I-57, there's just so many other things they could have done to make it less confusing! I think he should totally have something named after him... but you wouldn't change the number of Route 66 in 1975, would you?

I would also like to discuss the conditions of both states; I meet all criteria given. I attend college in Milwaukee, and spend my summers in Tinley Park, Illinois.

In regards to Wisconsin, where I reside for college, you can tell a lot of their roads are built to lower trim level, with I-41 lacking lights, but when they build a road, they build a road! I-94 through Milwaukee isn't fantastic by any means, but the road that's there is in decent condition, albeit small (like Illinois). They have a cohesive secondary expressway system in the state, while having half as many people. What does Illinois have? IL-13? IL-336 from nowhere to nowhere? Wisconsin is arguably more intelligent with their road construction as well; they overbuild state highways to 4 and 6 lanes well before they need to be. This reduces the amount of eminent domain usage, meaning less people lose their homes and businesses for highway expansion! Wisconsin suburbs have wider, smoother roads than the ones in Chicagoland, yet are in a metropolitan area less than a fifth as populated! These are all state roads... which I have driven on! Even the roads through rural areas, like US-151, are buttery smooth and well maintained.

What happens in Illinois when you cross the Will - Cook County Line going south on I-57? A huge bump, and a sudden drop in pavement quality. The segment of I-57 south of I-80 would have been modernized all the way out to Kankakee if it were in Wisconsin right now, considering its outdated design, 6 cloverleaves, constant traffic hangups, and rough pavement. Most rural interstates in Illinois are like this; relatively low tier in maintenance quality. Most of the state roads I've been on in the Peoria area are also a bit worse for wear, especially the McCluggage Bridge which was replaced last year. I-74's bridge in downtown Peoria happens to have no shoulders at all! You also have the genuine stupidity that occurs in the Quad Cities; whose bright idea was it to run I-80, one of the most important highways in the country, around a tight loop ramp instead of running it on the path of I-280?

The stupidity doesn't end when you enter IDOT District 1, either. Quality issues still abound; I-80 through Joliet has been outdated for the past 20 years, the bridge has been "structurally deficient" since I've been alive, yet they're getting around to replacing that stretch just now (thanks JB!). IL-394 is in similar shape to I-57 discussed earlier, and Southwest Highway (IL-7) has drainage issues in Orland Park. There's a huge knot of incomplete interchanges north of Oak Brook, they constructed the Hillside Strangler, the list goes on and on and on... m!y personal favorite is my brother's pothole-dodging on I-57 in Chicago, because IDOT didn't fix potholes big enough to damage car rims! I haven't seen any of those in Milwaukee, much less on Wisconsin's state-maintained highways!

You can find bad roads to rip on anywhere, but I certainly have found a lot more in Illinois than Wisconsin!

As an Illinois resident, I simply have to concur: Wisconsin (and Minnesota, and North Dakota, and South Dakota) have it in the bag compared to Illinois! No kicking or screaming about WisDOT can change that. If you want to complain how bad a neighboring state is, do it to Indiana. They deserve it, not Wisconsin.

[Crash_It]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

That's quite the goalpost shift. So you can criticize roads when you drive on them? So if someone has driven on LSD, they can criticize the naming?

At least try to be logical OK?

Rough pavement is actually a valid concern rather than a name which is to commemorate the founder of the largest city in the state.

Pavement quality doesn't matter if you can't read the name of a road you're trying to get to; "Jean-Baptiste Pointe DuSable Lake Shore Drive" is two mouthfuls, and even half of it causes a lot of clutter on navigational signs.

Chicago has plenty of other streets and expressways they can rename that aren't the most famous street in the city, and won't cause a name that makes it difficult to read signs. My personal preference is Columbus Street, he's not too in favor these days, and there's already a Columbus Avenue in the southwest part of the city (near Hometown). Heck, they could have even given him the interchange at the Stevenson and the Dan Ryan, or the merge with I-57, there's just so many other things they could have done to make it less confusing! I think he should totally have something named after him... but you wouldn't change the number of Route 66 in 1975, would you?

I would also like to discuss the conditions of both states; I meet all criteria given. I attend college in Milwaukee, and spend my summers in Tinley Park, Illinois.

In regards to Wisconsin, where I reside for college, you can tell a lot of their roads are built to lower trim level, with I-41 lacking lights, but when they build a road, they build a road! I-94 through Milwaukee isn't fantastic by any means, but the road that's there is in decent condition, albeit small (like Illinois). They have a cohesive secondary expressway system in the state, while having half as many people. What does Illinois have? IL-13? IL-336 from nowhere to nowhere? Wisconsin is arguably more intelligent with their road construction as well; they overbuild state highways to 4 and 6 lanes well before they need to be. This reduces the amount of eminent domain usage, meaning less people lose their homes and businesses for highway expansion! Wisconsin suburbs have wider, smoother roads than the ones in Chicagoland, yet are in a metropolitan area less than a fifth as populated! These are all state roads... which I have driven on! Even the roads through rural areas, like US-151, are buttery smooth and well maintained.

What happens in Illinois when you cross the Will - Cook County Line going south on I-57? A huge bump, and a sudden drop in pavement quality. The segment of I-57 south of I-80 would have been modernized all the way out to Kankakee if it were in Wisconsin right now, considering its outdated design, 6 cloverleaves, constant traffic hangups, and rough pavement. Most rural interstates in Illinois are like this; relatively low tier in maintenance quality. Most of the state roads I've been on in the Peoria area are also a bit worse for wear, especially the McCluggage Bridge which was replaced last year. I-74's bridge in downtown Peoria happens to have no shoulders at all! You also have the genuine stupidity that occurs in the Quad Cities; whose bright idea was it to run I-80, one of the most important highways in the country, around a tight loop ramp instead of running it on the path of I-280?

The stupidity doesn't end when you enter IDOT District 1, either. Quality issues still abound; I-80 through Joliet has been outdated for the past 20 years, the bridge has been "structurally deficient" since I've been alive, yet they're getting around to replacing that stretch just now (thanks JB!). IL-394 is in similar shape to I-57 discussed earlier, and Southwest Highway (IL-7) has drainage issues in Orland Park. There's a huge knot of incomplete interchanges north of Oak Brook, they constructed the Hillside Strangler, the list goes on and on and on... m!y personal favorite is my brother's pothole-dodging on I-57 in Chicago, because IDOT didn't fix potholes big enough to damage car rims! I haven't seen any of those in Milwaukee, much less on Wisconsin's state-maintained highways!

You can find bad roads to rip on anywhere, but I certainly have found a lot more in Illinois than Wisconsin!

As an Illinois resident, I simply have to concur: Wisconsin (and Minnesota, and North Dakota, and South Dakota) have it in the bag compared to Illinois! No kicking or screaming about WisDOT can change that. If you want to complain how bad a neighboring state is, do it to Indiana. They deserve it, not Wisconsin.

57 has recently been resurfaced this past construction season and is much smoother, 394 is in the crosshairs. I've driven downstate extensively and haven't seen the low quality that you've described and I can cite several of my recent videos to prove it.

https://youtu.be/7zu2x6FZ0E0

https://youtu.be/oWO9QQYGM08

https://youtu.be/k39QrS4jVIE

https://youtu.be/S5Pu7dRTDGs


All well maintained roads and in rural areas. The suburban roads in Wisconsin are crap too like WIS 32 in Kenosha and Racine Counties. Whereas IL 137 and IL42 are in pristine shape or near it

https://youtu.be/QwQZ-f36X0s


WIS 83 isn't too hot either. Indiana is better than Wisconsin from my experience, didn't use to be that way around 2017 but since 2019 things have changed (still can't stand I65 though and always go around it every time I have to use it. I'll agree with you about MNDOT, almost every state road in the twin cities area is either an expressway or freeway (only a few state roads in Chicagoland are like that) and they are the gold standard for snow removal.

[SEWIGuy]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

That's quite the goalpost shift. So you can criticize roads when you drive on them? So if someone has driven on LSD, they can criticize the naming?

At least try to be logical OK?

Rough pavement is actually a valid concern rather than a name which is to commemorate the founder of the largest city in the state.

"My concerns are valid. Your's aren't."

🙄🙄🙄

[Brandon]

Drove through the Jane Byrne JCT last night on the Dan Ryan going north, pretty impressed by everything. 4 through lanes with a 2 lane split off for the local exits, its essentially a mini express lane section from Roosevelt/Taylor to Ohio St. Part of me thinks there will be some resurfacing to be done next summer as some sections are still a little rough.

In the spring they will be doing northbound resurfacing from the end of the new concrete to ~Ohio street.  They got the southbound part done this year but not northbound. I assume it was delayed because of this summer's materials strike that prevented asphalt and concrete work from happening for ~1 month it.  They can do resurfacing with only nighttime lane closures so that shouldn't cause major traffic impacts.

I was miffed at the site of "Dusable Lake Shore Drive" on a sign at the I-55 interchange.  Please IDiOT, leave it alone!

How about you worry more about your state fixing up their miles of beat up roads rather than IDOT doing the right thing by recognizing the founder of a city.

Nobody in their right mind would call it anything but Lake Shore Drive or LSD.

Only reason people are against it is because of the color of his skin. I remember similar objections being made about Ida B Wells Dr. Not as many people would flip out if it were renamed to Richard J Daley Lake Shore Drive.

Bullshit.  "Lake Shore Drive" is considered iconic by itself.  Daley already has the Civic Center and its plaza (where they got that Picasso) named after him.  As for renaming Congress Parkway between the Circle and Columbus, the main concern was you'd have Wells crossing Wells.  It'd look like goddamn Atlanta with the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree.

[JoePCool14]

Crash It is the only individual who will respond to a lengthy forum post with one or two lines and seemingly call the entire post refuted. He did that to Hobart's post, and he did it to mine. This isn't the first time either. Citing a couple of examples does not explain away all of the other problems described. That's called "cherry-picking", and is a logical fallacy. "Yeah, 98 of these main state routes are shit, but the other 2 are good!"

So what am I saying? Don't bother trying to debate him.



As for IDOT itself, if I could do whatever I wanted with it, I would be trying to shed lower-priority routes onto other agencies. There's a lot of unnumbered roads that I can think of that don't need to be state-maintained routes. Then they could focus on the more important roads instead of a random two-lane connector. Of course, the counties have their own budgetary issues too, but at least IDOT could improve the top level roads. This is just fictional hopes though.

[Crash_It]

As for IDOT itself, if I could do whatever I wanted with it, I would be trying to shed lower-priority routes onto other agencies. There's a lot of unnumbered roads that I can think of that don't need to be state-maintained routes. Then they could focus on the more important roads instead of a random two-lane connector. Of course, the counties have their own budgetary issues too, but at least IDOT could improve the top level roads. This is just fictional hopes though.

The funny thing about that is, even the unnumbered routes in the state are in better condition than the numbered routes in Wisconsin

Case in point... This video

https://youtu.be/F8VjZt0I_Jw


Wisconsin doesn't even have any unnumbered routes except for the frontage roads.

[SEWIGuy]

As for IDOT itself, if I could do whatever I wanted with it, I would be trying to shed lower-priority routes onto other agencies. There's a lot of unnumbered roads that I can think of that don't need to be state-maintained routes. Then they could focus on the more important roads instead of a random two-lane connector. Of course, the counties have their own budgetary issues too, but at least IDOT could improve the top level roads. This is just fictional hopes though.

The funny thing about that is, even the unnumbered routes in the state are in better condition than the numbered routes in Wisconsin

Case in point... This video

https://youtu.be/F8VjZt0I_Jw


Wisconsin doesn't even have any unnumbered routes except for the frontage roads.

Actually the funny thing is that you are still not understanding people's points.  You can be obsessed with Wisconsin's roads as much as possible. I, for one, don't really care what you think about them.

However, you seem to think that renaming LSD is somehow above criticism...on a message board...about topics in Illinois. And that's insanely weird.

[Rothman]

He's just trying to drum up views for his videos at this point.

[sprjus4]

Crash_It should actually respond to every single part of the posts he's "refuting" .

These two come in mind:

What's wrong with 12 &45? They were smooth the last time I drove them. 12 in Walworth county WI is exponentially worse.

45 had several resurfacing projects within the last few years.

I94 is fine except for that one pothole near the old orchard bridge...894 in Milwaukee County is worse.

I290-90 was just recently worked on and finished, I have a whole video on it

US20 has one stretch in Eleroy that needs some TLC, I imagine it being taken care of in the coming season. Same thing with 80.

US-12 and US-45 are severely underbuilt for the traffic volumes that use them. For one, US-12 needs to be 6-laned, at least in the southern Lake County sections. It would also be nice to see some more efficient planning: less signals, less left-turn phases, more grade-separation where possible, more innovative designs like Michigan lefts, better signage, etc. But Illinois doesn't really do a whole lot of innovation. Right now, US-12 is a slog. US-14 is also a slog for similar reasons. US-45 just straight-up needs to be 4-laned throughout almost all of Lake County. It's only two lanes as far south as IL-22!

The Edens is a severely out-of-date design that was built decades ago. While the capacity is alright, the amount of cloverleafs and the lack of proper accel./decel. lanes along with other poor safety features make the road rather dangerous. It needs a complete modernization, or at the very least, a rebuild with basic safety improvements.

The 90/290 interchange did see some improvements, but at the end of the day it's still a cloverleaf. It's also pretty sketchy when congested.

US-20 is underbuilt out west. Ideally, it should be 4-laned all the way to Dubuque, but at the very minimum, rebuilt with wider shoulders, larger curve radii that actually meet the design speed, and more passing lanes. US-20 at night can be sketchy when you have little margin for error and big-rig trucks are barreling down on you from the opposite direction.

I want to make one final point about pavement smoothness. While it's important, it is not the only criterion for determining whether a DOT is good or not. Also, a lot of IDOT's resurfacing is just a simple grind and relay of a few inches. It makes the road smoother, yes, and I'd rather have it than not, but the underlying road structure is still in bad shape. The cracks and settling end up mirroring through to the surface within a few years. Rebuilding a road, which WisDOT does a lot more of, is way better than a simple asphalt overlay.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

As previously stated, road smoothness isn't everything. Wisconsin has plenty of roads that need to be resurfaced, but so does Illinois.

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Even if he is suggesting that, going by his logic, I've lived in Illinois since I was born, so I'm more than qualified to give my opinion on IDOT. He also misses the hypocrisy where he criticizes WisDOT... without himself living in Wisconsin.

Was recently seeing a girl in Wisconsin. Lot of the roads on the way to, from and while with her are crap.

That's quite the goalpost shift. So you can criticize roads when you drive on them? So if someone has driven on LSD, they can criticize the naming?

At least try to be logical OK?

Rough pavement is actually a valid concern rather than a name which is to commemorate the founder of the largest city in the state.

Pavement quality doesn't matter if you can't read the name of a road you're trying to get to; "Jean-Baptiste Pointe DuSable Lake Shore Drive" is two mouthfuls, and even half of it causes a lot of clutter on navigational signs.

Chicago has plenty of other streets and expressways they can rename that aren't the most famous street in the city, and won't cause a name that makes it difficult to read signs. My personal preference is Columbus Street, he's not too in favor these days, and there's already a Columbus Avenue in the southwest part of the city (near Hometown). Heck, they could have even given him the interchange at the Stevenson and the Dan Ryan, or the merge with I-57, there's just so many other things they could have done to make it less confusing! I think he should totally have something named after him... but you wouldn't change the number of Route 66 in 1975, would you?

I would also like to discuss the conditions of both states; I meet all criteria given. I attend college in Milwaukee, and spend my summers in Tinley Park, Illinois.

In regards to Wisconsin, where I reside for college, you can tell a lot of their roads are built to lower trim level, with I-41 lacking lights, but when they build a road, they build a road! I-94 through Milwaukee isn't fantastic by any means, but the road that's there is in decent condition, albeit small (like Illinois). They have a cohesive secondary expressway system in the state, while having half as many people. What does Illinois have? IL-13? IL-336 from nowhere to nowhere? Wisconsin is arguably more intelligent with their road construction as well; they overbuild state highways to 4 and 6 lanes well before they need to be. This reduces the amount of eminent domain usage, meaning less people lose their homes and businesses for highway expansion! Wisconsin suburbs have wider, smoother roads than the ones in Chicagoland, yet are in a metropolitan area less than a fifth as populated! These are all state roads... which I have driven on! Even the roads through rural areas, like US-151, are buttery smooth and well maintained.

What happens in Illinois when you cross the Will - Cook County Line going south on I-57? A huge bump, and a sudden drop in pavement quality. The segment of I-57 south of I-80 would have been modernized all the way out to Kankakee if it were in Wisconsin right now, considering its outdated design, 6 cloverleaves, constant traffic hangups, and rough pavement. Most rural interstates in Illinois are like this; relatively low tier in maintenance quality. Most of the state roads I've been on in the Peoria area are also a bit worse for wear, especially the McCluggage Bridge which was replaced last year. I-74's bridge in downtown Peoria happens to have no shoulders at all! You also have the genuine stupidity that occurs in the Quad Cities; whose bright idea was it to run I-80, one of the most important highways in the country, around a tight loop ramp instead of running it on the path of I-280?

The stupidity doesn't end when you enter IDOT District 1, either. Quality issues still abound; I-80 through Joliet has been outdated for the past 20 years, the bridge has been "structurally deficient" since I've been alive, yet they're getting around to replacing that stretch just now (thanks JB!). IL-394 is in similar shape to I-57 discussed earlier, and Southwest Highway (IL-7) has drainage issues in Orland Park. There's a huge knot of incomplete interchanges north of Oak Brook, they constructed the Hillside Strangler, the list goes on and on and on... m!y personal favorite is my brother's pothole-dodging on I-57 in Chicago, because IDOT didn't fix potholes big enough to damage car rims! I haven't seen any of those in Milwaukee, much less on Wisconsin's state-maintained highways!

You can find bad roads to rip on anywhere, but I certainly have found a lot more in Illinois than Wisconsin!

As an Illinois resident, I simply have to concur: Wisconsin (and Minnesota, and North Dakota, and South Dakota) have it in the bag compared to Illinois! No kicking or screaming about WisDOT can change that. If you want to complain how bad a neighboring state is, do it to Indiana. They deserve it, not Wisconsin.

Crash_It, try replying to every point / every sentence of these posts, instead of cherry picking what you like. Also, do not use "counter examples" . Focus on the examples given and back them up.

[SSOWorld]

We're done with the debate regarding street names - move on

[triplemultiplex]

What the hell is "Wallet Hub"?
That doesn't strike me as some kind of authority on roads.

[Max Rockatansky]

What the hell is "Wallet Hub"?
That doesn't strike me as some kind of authority on roads.

You're right, it's the absolute authority on everything.   

[hobsini2]

It was not appropriate. And the IDOT / WIDOT comparisons are irrelevant.

It was perfectly relevant.. why chastise a DOT in another state while the DOT in your own state isn't handling what should be handled?

Are you seriously suggesting that no one can be critical of IDOT unless they are from Illinois? In a topic called "Illinois notes?"

Nah, he's called out Illinois posters who have critiqued the roads accusing them of not knowing what they're talking about or having a hatred of their own state.

Yup. I remember in the Summer of 2021, having to drive out to Freeport on US 20 and saying in here how bad the road was in Stephenson County with the paving. And who was it that critiqued my experience? You guessed it. Crash It. But that's not why you called.