What's the deal with US 54-400 at Cheney? There are two interchanges, half a mile apart, at 383rd and 391st Streets: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.66699&lon=-97.77774&zoom=15&layers=M (I checked aerials and they're clearly both in use).
They were not signed for 383rd and 391st Sts. W. originally. When this freeway length of US 54 was built in the mid-1970's, the west exit was signed for K-251, the town of Cheney, and Cheney Lake, while the east exit was signed for St. Joe (locally called St. Joe Ost). Neither Google Maps nor Openstreetmap show St. Joe, which is unincorporated. When the US 54 freeway was reconstructed from Garden Plain to Kingman in 2002-03, KDOT replaced all the signs and substituted cross street names for town and geographical feature names on the advance guide and exit direction signs. (I am not aware that an explicit reason for this decision was ever given, but I suspect it had to do with facilitating navigation by emergency vehicles.) Cheney and Cheney Lake have both been relegated to supplemental guide signs, and I am not sure St. Joe is still signed anymore.
When the road was originally constructed, I believe that Cheney and St. Joe received separate but closely spaced interchanges because they were considered separate communities and normal KDOT policy is to provide one freeway interchange per distinct population center in a rural area--cf. the cases of Goddard, which KDOT has been trying to limit to one freeway interchange despite the fact that it is growing into a Wichita exurb, and Greensburg, where (IIRC) KDOT acquiesced to a split diamond.
Edit: I have come across new information. St. Joe does appear in the DeLorme Kansas gazetteer, at the intersection of 37th St. N. and 343rd St. W. KDOT does provide an exit at 343rd St. W. which is now signed for St. Joe on supplemental guide signs.
I have also realized that my memory as to signing prior to the 2003 reconstruction is unreliable. I cannot exclude the following possibilities with regard to the pre-2003 signing:
* East exit asked about in the original post (383rd St. W.) was originally signed for Cheney town--in fact both 383rd and 391st Sts. go to Cheney, but 383rd St. is the more direct route to the center of Cheney, while 391st St. passes it on its western fringe
* West exit (391st St.) was originally signed for St. Joe in addition to Lake Cheney and K-251--this arrangement would have been logical if 343rd St. W. was unpaved when the US 54 freeway was originally built, since in the absence of a paved 343rd St., K-251 and its continuation north and east of Lake Cheney become the fastest paved route to St. Joe. In fact 343rd St. is now paved
Lake Cheney (north of US 54-400) is used primarily as a reservoir to store drinking water for the city of Wichita, but it is also a heavily used state park with boating and other recreational opportunities. This is why 391st St. W. between US 54 and 21st St. is on the state highway system as K-251. Regardless of the preferred access to St. Joe, 383rd St. is also a more convenient access to the town of Cheney (just south of US 54), and this may have been why a separate exit was built in the 1970's. The two destinations could have been served by a single crossroad at a common exit, but this would have been an awkward arrangement necessitating an offline relocation of K-251.
I am not aware of any exit lists covering US 54 pre-2003. Highway Heaven (checked using the Web Archive) never seems to have hosted or linked to any. The roadgeek community (in the early 2000's) seems to have been generally oblivious to the existence of a US 54 freeway in far western Sedgwick County. I believe that the 2003 reconstruction was performed through KDOT contract number 54-87 K-6398-01, advertised for construction in January of that year and awarded for $16 million. The signing plans almost certainly include removal sheets which would have shown the signing on US 54-400 immediately prior to the reconstruction. However, KDOT does not have an online plans archive, and getting the plans out of KDOT through an open records request would be a difficult project necessitating patience and a willingness to pay fees (hard to predict as to magnitude) for retrieval and production.
Probably not much help for explaining why it's there, but I have exactly one photo relevant to the situation- the overpass is 383rd, with 391st coming up.
As Winkler says, it's signed as 391st St with a supplemental sign for Cheney Reservoir
Here's that photo (http://www.davidjcorcoran.com/383391.jpg) (warning: high res)
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 29, 2011, 04:48:50 PM
When the road was originally constructed, I believe that Cheney and St. Joe received separate but closely spaced interchanges because they were considered separate communities and normal KDOT policy is to provide one freeway interchange per distinct population center in a rural area--cf. the cases of Goddard, which KDOT has been trying to limit to one freeway interchange despite the fact that it is growing into a Wichita exurb, and Greensburg, where (IIRC) KDOT acquiesced to a split diamond.
This is what I was looking for; thanks.
Has any work commenced on the 15 mile realignment of K-14/ K-96 yet in Reno and Rice Counties as part of the Northwest Passage project?
Quote from: roadman65 on November 17, 2022, 01:39:12 PMHas any work commenced on the 15 mile realignment of K-14/K-96 yet in Reno and Rice Counties as part of the Northwest Passage project?
I have not been out that way lately, so I don't have field observations to draw on. KDOT awarded (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15260.msg2565983#msg2565983) the relevant contracts--14-78 KA-1007-02 (for Reno County) and 14-80 KA-1007-03 (for Rice County)--in March 2021 for a combined cost of just under $82 million. Google satellite imagery for the general area has a displayed copyright date of 2022 and does not show any grading in the corridor, but this doesn't necessarily mean work hasn't started.
Is Wyatt Earp Blvd. in Dodge City still signed as US 50 Business?
I get the impression that it's now been relinquished by KDOT and is been municipally maintained since US 400 got realigned to bypass Downtown ( which used to be overlapped with US 50 Bus.) within the last twenty years.
It would make sense being all of the business route was overlapped with other routes, and US 400 being pulled off it would give it no purpose unless KDOT wanted an independent business designation.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 15, 2023, 06:51:23 PM
Is Wyatt Earp Blvd. in Dodge City still signed as US 50 Business?
Not to my knowledge, no.
Even though Business 50 is long gone from Dodge City, Google Maps still marks it on the western end between US 50 and Matt Down Rd.: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7559139,-100.0590239,808m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 17, 2022, 02:35:28 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 17, 2022, 01:39:12 PMHas any work commenced on the 15 mile realignment of K-14/K-96 yet in Reno and Rice Counties as part of the Northwest Passage project?
I have not been out that way lately, so I don't have field observations to draw on. KDOT awarded (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15260.msg2565983#msg2565983) the relevant contracts--14-78 KA-1007-02 (for Reno County) and 14-80 KA-1007-03 (for Rice County)--in March 2021 for a combined cost of just under $82 million. Google satellite imagery for the general area has a displayed copyright date of 2022 and does not show any grading in the corridor, but this doesn't necessarily mean work hasn't started.
There's some work who had beginned like the construction of an overpass along with some grading north of McPherson.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=38.22001,-98.19305&z=14&t=S
The City of Lawrence put out a release announcing the start of the construction of the SLT/6th Street interchange
Quote from: City of Lawrence
KDOT project to begin in Lawrence today
Announced by the Kansas Department of Transportation (KDOT) last week, a KDOT project at the interchange of U.S. 40 (6th Street) and K-10 in Lawrence is scheduled to begin on Monday, July 24, weather permitting.
The project will reconfigure the current interchange to a diverging diamond interchange (DDI) and add a sidewalk with barriers for pedestrian protection down the center of the bridge. Phases I and II of the project will primarily take place west of the interchange, along U.S. 40 and East 900 Road. The current East 900 Road intersection tie-ins will close to allow room for the new interchange configuration. The north intersection of East 900 Road will be relocated to the west of its current location. The southern intersection tie-in will be permanently closed, and a cul-de-sac will be constructed for local traffic.
This work will require U.S. 40 to temporarily close later this summer for approximately 100 days. Phase III is expected to occur in the 2024 summer months and will require a complete closure of the interchange when U.S. 40 and the K-10 ramps are reconfigured to create the diverging diamond layout. Motorists will be notified, and traffic information will be provided prior to the closures.
Work will take place Monday through Friday, and Saturdays as needed, during daylight hours and is expected to be complete by the end of 2024.
To stay aware of highway construction projects across Kansas, go to www.kandrive.org or call 5-1-1.
The official US 40 detour during the closure of 6th Street is K-10 and the Turnpike.
Saw this update about the Pittsburg Bypass (https://www.ksdot.gov/us69crawfordcountycorridor.asp) on the KDOT site today.
Quote
KDOT stopping work on U.S. 69 Crawford County Corridor western alignment; starting new corridor study later this year
In response to feedback from communities and residents along U.S. 69 in Crawford County, the Kansas Department of Transportation (KDOT) is stopping any further progress on developing the western alignment of the Crawford County Corridor (also known as the Pittsburg Bypass). This includes stopping design work and planned construction of the U.S. 160 improvements (Phase 3) of the Crawford County Corridor. That project would have extended U.S. 160 to the west along 590th Avenue.
Discussions about improving the U.S. 69 corridor have been happening for decades. The project would expand an 18-mile corridor of U.S. 69 to a four-lane freeway, starting at the Cherokee-Crawford county line and continuing north of the City of Arma.
Over time, KDOT has done preliminary engineering and environmental reviews, working with cities and counties along the U.S. 69 corridor. The last study on the project was completed in 2012, and at that time, the western alignment was presented as the preferred alternative. While there have been ongoing conversations through KDOT's Local Consult process and individual project meetings, until this spring, KDOT had not had a dedicated conversation with communities along the corridor about the project in more than 10 years.
In May, more than 350 people attended city council and county commission meetings where KDOT presented about the U.S. 69 Crawford County Corridor. The overwhelming
majority of people KDOT heard from were opposed to the western alignment of the U.S. Crawford County Corridor. The most common reasons included:
- The cost of the project relative to its benefit to the community;
- The last study was completed in 2012, and there have been significant changes in
development since that time;
- Impacts to homes; and
- The potential impact of a new bypass on towns and existing businesses in the area.
"We heard loud and clear the U.S. 69 corridor is a top priority for southeast Kansas," said Greg Schieber, KDOT State Transportation Engineer. "We also heard things have changed since decisions were made more than a decade ago, and we need to step back and work with communities to find the right solution for the future of U.S. 69. Infrastructure improvements are expensive, and we want to invest in projects that not only improve the state highway system, but also align with the needs and visions of Kansas communities."
Later this year, KDOT will start a new corridor study to re-evaluate the current highway and identify the current and future needs of the communities along U.S. 69 in Crawford County. The study will include an updated traffic and safety analysis to help determine viable options to improve the Crawford County Corridor.
To help inform the study, KDOT will establish a stakeholder group composed of representatives of the cities, county, and businesses along the corridor to hear a variety of perspectives on the priorities in the region. The study will include a robust public outreach effort and multiple opportunities for public input. It will take 12-18 months to complete the new study.
At this year's Local Consult meetings in October, KDOT will not list a specific U.S. 69 Crawford County Corridor project for discussion. At the last two rounds of Local Consult, KDOT heard from southeast Kansans that improvements to U.S. 69 in Crawford County are a priority. KDOT is actively taking steps, like this new corridor study, to address that priority. The study needs to be done so that KDOT can have projects for consideration at the next round of Local Consult meetings in 2025.
As more information about the study schedule and opportunities for input are available, KDOT will post information online at: https://www.ksdot.gov/us69crawfordcountycorridor.asp.
Quote from: mvak36 on August 11, 2023, 01:50:33 PM
Saw this update about the Pittsburg Bypass (https://www.ksdot.gov/us69crawfordcountycorridor.asp) on the KDOT site today.
Quote
KDOT stopping work on U.S. 69 Crawford County Corridor western alignment; starting new corridor study later this year
So another 10+ years until they turn dirt.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article278341184.html
Quote
As Kansas' first-ever express toll lanes are under construction on U.S. 69 in Overland Park, the state is now considering adding more to ease congestion on another highway in Johnson County: Kansas 10.
The Kansas Department of Transportation is studying how to address traffic and safety issues on the 17-mile stretch from the interchange with Interstates 435 and 35 in Lenexa, west through Olathe and De Soto to the Douglas County line. And officials said one option could be widening the highway with one express toll lane in each direction. The other lanes would remain free.
...
As western Johnson County continues to grow, with major projects such as the development of the $4 billion Panasonic plant in De Soto, the state has prioritized improving K-10. Officials have been analyzing solutions since last fall.
...
The state wants to decide how to expand the highway by next spring.
KDOT is completing a study to explore widening K‑10 to three lanes in each direction, with express toll lanes, from Cedar Creek Parkway to I‑435.
...
Cross said complete reconstruction of the 17-mile highway is estimated to cost $1.6 billion. But that work would be constructed in phases over time, as needed.
Project Website: https://k10.ksdot.gov/
So, this study is about pre-existing easternmost freeway segment of K-10, not the portion between Interstate 70 and US 59 that is planned to be converted into a four-lane freeway. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the distant future, the toll lanes eventually continue west of the County 442/N. 1400 Rd. interchange.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 22, 2023, 09:01:28 PM
So, this study is about pre-existing easternmost freeway segment of K-10, not the portion between Interstate 70 and US 59 that is planned to be converted into a four-lane freeway. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the distant future, the toll lanes eventually continue west of the County 442/N. 1400 Rd. interchange.
Yes. This is the part in Johnson County, not Douglas County (Lawrence). It got moved up the priorities list due to the Panasonic plant going up in Desoto. The thing I'm looking forward to is the system improvements at the K-7 and I-435/I-35 interchanges like they mentioned on their website.
I wonder if they can do the majority of the Johnson County Gateway (I-435/I-35/K-10) Phase 3 as part of this project. I know they had a map back in 2016 or so that showed what they would do in a future Phase 3, but unfortunately they took that site down after Phase 2 was completed.
This is all assuming they can find the funding for this of course.
I just finished driving K-10 and US 40 in Douglas County and noticed that some county roads use blue pentagon shields like many other states use on secondary roads.
So far I haven't seen them in any other county. Is that quite common in Kansas?
Quote from: roadman65 on September 11, 2023, 11:05:17 PMI just finished driving K-10 and US 40 in Douglas County and noticed that some county roads use blue pentagon shields like many other states use on secondary roads.
So far I haven't seen them in any other county. Is that quite common in Kansas?
A few counties do use the pentagon--besides Douglas, Riley (Manhattan) and Harvey (Newton) come to mind among the counties with large urban centers. A few counties out in western Kansas used to have, and may still have, their own custom shields.
Rawlins County, where I grew up, used a few blue pentagons, but not a whole lot of them.
To follow up on Jonathan's comment, Harvey County's pentagons are the right shape and color, but they're still not exactly what I'd call "standard".
(https://i.imgur.com/ajRqTN1.jpg)
Leavenworth County also uses the blue pentagons.
I believe Cowley County, in south-central Kansas, does as well.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 11, 2023, 11:12:20 PM
A few counties do use the pentagon--besides Douglas, Riley (Manhattan) and Harvey (Newton) come to mind among the counties with large urban centers. A few counties out in western Kansas used to have, and may still have, their own custom shields.
I believe that the signs you're thinking of were actually a State standard that was abandoned when the blue pentagon design became part of the MUTCD.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/14696262968_5e37ae8cd2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ooEbYh)
18769 (https://flic.kr/p/ooEbYh) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/14879823211_d97651925d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oESZ34)
18763 (https://flic.kr/p/oESZ34) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
Both of these photos were taken by me back in August of 2003. It is quite possible that they have been replaced by blue pentagon markers or just removed.
Also, I can verify that Linn County has used blue pentagon county route markers:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/5500/9226784127_b094fdd43f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/f4kFsX)
43823 (https://flic.kr/p/f4kFsX) by Richie Kennedy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/richiekennedy56/), on Flickr
I see the realignment of K-14/96 in Reno and Rice Counties is completed. Was in Hutchinson today, and saw that it is open and the old 56th Avenue and K-96 intersection was converted to a four way stop. Plus the old alignment is a dead end as the transition from the new alignment to the original super two bypass is smooth.
I would think that they would reconnect Nickerson Blvd to the old K-14/96, but did not. So I'm guessing KDOT transferred ownership of the old state highway to county control as no new route number is assigned. Tomorrow I will drive the whole thing to photograph it all.
I also see that in Cherokee County that US 166 & 400 are being widened to four lanes east of their west split to the MO State Line. Currently all of US 400 and US 166 is closed from US 69 ALT to K-26 and both routes are detoured onto K-66 and K-26 until crews complete the project.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53197157804_8fdad4c947_k.jpg
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53197157804_8fdad4c947_k.jpg)
Is there a reason why the NB and SB bridges over I-70 are built differently? I was always curious as both roads on top were always a divided freeway since the interchange was constructed many decades ago.
Yet one is a girder supported structure (NB US 81) while the other (SB US 81) is just concrete with reinforcement rods supporting the deck internally ( I am not sure the lingo used for it, and don't want to assume its prestressed concrete).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/albums/72157719881439968
Here are some new photos of the K-14 & 96 super two extension north-west of Hutchinson included within my album page. So far I uploaded three photos of the 56th Avenue interchange which is directly east of the former At Grade the older alignment (now called Nickerson Blvd.) where it used to intersect along side the Union Pacific line.
I will add more soon, but just to give you an idea of how that aligment looks.
Is there a reason that it's a super two? I can see they have the ROW for 4 lanes, so is it just that there's not enough traffic for the upgrade?
Quote from: Hunty2022 on September 19, 2023, 06:16:25 PMIs there a reason that it's a super two? I can see they have the ROW for 4 lanes, so is it just that there's not enough traffic for the upgrade?
KDOT opted for staged construction to release funds for use elsewhere within the current ten-year program. AADTs (2022 data) range from 3100 VPD just south of Sterling to 5110 VPD just east of Nickerson, so they are all below the usual 10,000 VPD for widening to four-lane divided. Kansas actually has divided highways elsewhere with AADTs well below 10,000 (one recent example being 5320 VPD along the US 54 freeway bypass of Cunningham); however, the initial Super Two upgrade for K-14/K-96 spreads the jam over more of the bread while upgrading roadway geometry to reduce crashes associated with failed overtaking maneuvers, which was one of the other justifications for the project.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53199685647_72bb3dd650_k.jpg)
Is there a reason why KDOT can't assign control cities for either straight through I-70 or I-670 here?
Since St. Louis is already being used since the toll road ended, why not use St. Louis for I-670 and use Kansas City Downtown for I-70.
This is one of those things that seems weird as hell, until you get to know KDOT, and then you kind of get the internal logic they're following.
KDOT standard practice is to simply not use control cities in situations where the route does not reach any location that is distinctly different from the location of the sign. So unlike many states that will use a control city on a 3di that is accessed by the parent interstate, KDOT just leaves it blank. Neither I-435 nor I-635 have any control cities in Kansas, for instance, and I don't believe I-235 in Wichita uses them either. The changeover point from "Kansas City" to "St Louis" occurs whenever one enters Kansas City KS (skipping Kansas City MO), so KDOT seems to treat both Kansas Cities as one geographic construct. Accordingly, I-670 gets no control cities, because it only passes through places called Kansas City for its entire length, and any place one would access it would also be in Kansas City.
Why I-70 is left blank here is unknown. It could just be for aesthetic balance since I-670 isn't getting a control, or because it would make the sign panel too large, or possibly simply for message loading reasons. Or, my favorite theory: since 670 and 70 both end up at the same point, they don't want to influence the traveler to pick one route over the other.
"Kansas City Downtown" in particular would be a very un-KDOT control point.
I noticed that. I-435 in Missouri uses control cities even though Kansas does not. I-235 don't but uses Salina and Okla City on supplemental signs on US 54 at I-235 and leaves the main guides as blank.
I've figured KDOT considers a geographic area as one whole city over city limits on why Kansas City is skipped on both I-35 and I-70 for the next large cities.
However many states now are eliminating control cities on three digit suburban routes or beltways with some others never having them. Columbus used to use control cities on I-270, but in the past few decades the I-70 and 71 cities that were once used for I-270 have been removed. So I assumed it's a recent change in signing practices for Ohio to participate in or a higher power.
I-635 could use Overland Park and St. Joseph with KDOT copying NJDOT recent practices using I-635 North TO I-29 North to fulfill that I-635 don't go to St Joseph.
In the old days, I-235 in Wichita had Newton and Wellington (next county seats north and south, respectively) as control points on ramp signs. Those went away no later than replacement of the original early 1960's pavement in the mid-1980's.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YccPSqsyXhGAvWxi7
A month ago I noticed this construction on the saw Quadrant of Us 166/400, K-26, and Baghdad Road near Galena. According to KDOT they're upgrading the US 166 & 400 alignment between Baxter Springs and the MO State Line to a freeway.
However when I drove it I was detoured along K-66 and K-26 as Detour signs were in place at the US 69 Alternate/ US 400 and K-66 roundabout going EB on US 400 so I never got to see what the nature of the closure was.
US 166 is still open from Baxter Springs to the four way stop at US 166/400 and K-26. I'm assuming that the US 400 Baxter Springs Bypass is closed as somehow this new freeway is going to have a seamless flow into the bypass.
Is there a project also to eventually upgrade US 400 from US 54/77 to Baxter Springs? Considering that all of US 400 east of Augusta to I-44 is heavily used, the current two lane alignment is almost functionally obsolete.
To me a new alignment for US 400 from Parsons to Baxter Springs would actually be a great thing. Eliminate its overlap with US 69 ALT and US 69 and extend K-171 along the current US 400 to Parsons and you have a better corridor.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2023, 12:55:49 AMIs there a project also to eventually upgrade US 400 from US 54/77 to Baxter Springs? Considering that all of US 400 east of Augusta to I-44 is heavily used, the current two lane alignment is almost functionally obsolete.
I haven't heard of a plan to expand US 400 to four-lane divided (much less full freeway) all the way from Leon to Baxter Springs. However, KDOT has done multiple passing lane contracts in the recent past, and another was scheduled to start near Severy last April as part of IKE (the current ten-year program).
In terms of improvements to the US 400 corridor, I would expect to see four-laning out in western Kansas before the Flint Hills, simply because the current traffic volumes are higher (though still under the 10,000 VPD threshold in most places) and the meatpacking industry drives economic growth regionally.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 01, 2023, 10:13:38 PM
I noticed that. I-435 in Missouri uses control cities even though Kansas does not. I-235 don't but uses Salina and Okla City on supplemental signs on US 54 at I-235 and leaves the main guides as blank.
I've figured KDOT considers a geographic area as one whole city over city limits on why Kansas City is skipped on both I-35 and I-70 for the next large cities.
However many states now are eliminating control cities on three digit suburban routes or beltways with some others never having them. Columbus used to use control cities on I-270, but in the past few decades the I-70 and 71 cities that were once used for I-270 have been removed. So I assumed it's a recent change in signing practices for Ohio to participate in or a higher power.
I-635 could use Overland Park and St. Joseph with KDOT copying NJDOT recent practices using I-635 North TO I-29 North to fulfill that I-635 don't go to St Joseph.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 26, 2023, 05:52:09 AM
This is one of those things that seems weird as hell, until you get to know KDOT, and then you kind of get the internal logic they're following.
KDOT standard practice is to simply not use control cities in situations where the route does not reach any location that is distinctly different from the location of the sign. So unlike many states that will use a control city on a 3di that is accessed by the parent interstate, KDOT just leaves it blank. Neither I-435 nor I-635 have any control cities in Kansas, for instance, and I don't believe I-235 in Wichita uses them either. The changeover point from "Kansas City" to "St Louis" occurs whenever one enters Kansas City KS (skipping Kansas City MO), so KDOT seems to treat both Kansas Cities as one geographic construct. Accordingly, I-670 gets no control cities, because it only passes through places called Kansas City for its entire length, and any place one would access it would also be in Kansas City.
Why I-70 is left blank here is unknown. It could just be for aesthetic balance since I-670 isn't getting a control, or because it would make the sign panel too large, or possibly simply for message loading reasons. Or, my favorite theory: since 670 and 70 both end up at the same point, they don't want to influence the traveler to pick one route over the other.
"Kansas City Downtown" in particular would be a very un-KDOT control point.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 01, 2023, 11:35:24 PM
In the old days, I-235 in Wichita had Newton and Wellington (next county seats north and south, respectively) as control points on ramp signs. Those went away no later than replacement of the original early 1960's pavement in the mid-1980's.
All of the above are definitely bad trends. While there is plenty of complaining on these boards about Limon and many tiny towns in PA that probably should not be control cities, removing control cities completely is not the answer. In each of the cases mentioned above, there are good control cities that can be used that are well known, properly direct non-local traffic, and are otherwise sensible choices.
Quote from: mrsman on October 04, 2023, 08:20:23 AMAll of the above are definitely bad trends. While there is plenty of complaining on these boards about Limon and many tiny towns in PA that probably should not be control cities, removing control cities completely is not the answer. In each of the cases mentioned above, there are good control cities that can be used that are well known, properly direct non-local traffic, and are otherwise sensible choices.
KDOT doesn't remove control cities completely--it simply doesn't sign them on pull-throughs along beltways. MoDOT does, and I feel the difference in message loading whenever I take a trip to Kansas City that involves travel on both sides of the state line.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 04, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: mrsman on October 04, 2023, 08:20:23 AMAll of the above are definitely bad trends. While there is plenty of complaining on these boards about Limon and many tiny towns in PA that probably should not be control cities, removing control cities completely is not the answer. In each of the cases mentioned above, there are good control cities that can be used that are well known, properly direct non-local traffic, and are otherwise sensible choices.
KDOT doesn't remove control cities completely--it simply doesn't sign them on pull-throughs along beltways. MoDOT does, and I feel the difference in message loading whenever I take a trip to Kansas City that involves travel on both sides of the state line.
Here removing Carthage is the answer https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53296817961_e1c3e578a2_c.jpg
as none of the two routes this sign is located on go there. To get to Carthage at the turn of US 69/160 to go north to Pittsburg, one must use an unnumbered county road across the MO Border to MO 96 to go there.
This sign was copied over from when K-96 continued east of Wichita to meet MO 96 near Joplin, MO and its alignment was along this part of US 160 until the creation of US 400 changed things.
Does anyone know if the Parsons Bypass on US 400 ever was part of US 160?
Or was it constructed after US 160 got realigned to former K-96 where it is now?
Quote from: roadman65 on October 30, 2023, 03:25:38 PMDoes anyone know if the Parsons Bypass on US 400 ever was part of US 160?
Or was it constructed after US 160 got realigned to former K-96 where it is now?
The Parsons Bypass was never US 160, since that highway was moved south to Altamont by 1999 (per old KDOT official state transportation maps) and HistoricAerials.com imagery puts completion of the bypass between 2002 (grading in progress) and 2006 (finished highway visible).
I see now KDOT has been decided that the proposed bypass of Pittsburg and upgrade of US 69 in Crawford County will be the Western alignment that was one of four developed since 1998 when state officials begun proposing a freeway upgrade for all of US 69 from Oklahoma to the KC area.
Of course KDOT already upgraded US 69 north of Fort Scott in recent years eliminating the Super Two segment in Bourbon County and it's all freeway now from US 54 to US 56 in Merriam near KC. However the plan is to have it all freeway south of KC into Oklahoma.
https://www.ksdot.gov/us69crawfordcountycorridor.asp
Here is from this past summer on what is being done.
I also assume that the current freeway being constructed for US 166/400 east of Baxter Springs is part of the larger picture here being there is no plan to four lane any part of US 400 from Baxter Springs to east of Augusta.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53299510473
This lane drop before an exit with two lanes defaulting to an exit in the same interchange is inconsistent.
Notice that the two far right lanes default into the exit, but the 3rd lane ends right before the 2nd ramp of the same interchange.
Why not have the ending lane continue onto I-435 West like the other two lanes do for I-435 East?
Quote from: roadman65 on November 01, 2023, 01:01:36 PMhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53299510473
This lane drop before an exit with two lanes defaulting to an exit in the same interchange is inconsistent.
Notice that the two far right lanes default into the exit, but the 3rd lane ends right before the 2nd ramp of the same interchange.
Why not have the ending lane continue onto I-435 West like the other two lanes do for I-435 East?
This is
at near the Johnson County Gateway. It's been a long time since I looked at the planning documentation in any detail, but I suspect the lane that ends just past the gore point is intended to be prolonged in a future phase.
Edit: Corrected to reflect that the lane transition is on US 69 (as noted downthread) rather than one of the roadways feeding directly into the Gateway.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 01, 2023, 01:01:36 PMhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53299510473
This lane drop before an exit with two lanes defaulting to an exit in the same interchange is inconsistent.
Notice that the two far right lanes default into the exit, but the 3rd lane ends right before the 2nd ramp of the same interchange.
Why not have the ending lane continue onto I-435 West like the other two lanes do for I-435 East?
This is at the Johnson County Gateway. It's been a long time since I looked at the planning documentation in any detail, but I suspect the lane that ends just past the gore point is intended to be prolonged in a future phase.
I think that picture is on US 69 NB in Overland Park just north of the College Blvd interchange. I believe they will be fixing that as part of the 69Express project.
https://69express.ksdot.gov/renderings/
https://69express.ksdot.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-03-14_US69-DB-Project-Exhibit-Public-Meeting-1.pdf
Quote from: mvak36 on November 01, 2023, 02:09:01 PMI think that picture is on US 69 NB in Overland Park just north of the College Blvd interchange. I believe they will be fixing that as part of the 69Express project.
So it is! (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9295932,-94.7047179,3a,29.5y,357.02h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snytktI91XkzqKmW3HWR48Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) Thanks for catching my mistake.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 02:16:31 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on November 01, 2023, 02:09:01 PMI think that picture is on US 69 NB in Overland Park just north of the College Blvd interchange. I believe they will be fixing that as part of the 69Express project.
So it is! (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9295932,-94.7047179,3a,29.5y,357.02h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snytktI91XkzqKmW3HWR48Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) Thanks for catching my mistake.
No worries. But since you did mention it, I was able to find a pdf from back in 2014 (https://web.archive.org/web/20150404021148/http://jocogateway.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2014-04-10-Ultimate-Exhibit_sized.pdf) that shows what a potential future phase of the Johnson County Gateway might look like (whenever they get the funding for it).
Quote from: mvak36 on November 01, 2023, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 02:16:31 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on November 01, 2023, 02:09:01 PMI think that picture is on US 69 NB in Overland Park just north of the College Blvd interchange. I believe they will be fixing that as part of the 69Express project.
So it is! (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9295932,-94.7047179,3a,29.5y,357.02h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snytktI91XkzqKmW3HWR48Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) Thanks for catching my mistake.
No worries. But since you did mention it, I was able to find a pdf from back in 2014 (https://web.archive.org/web/20150404021148/http://jocogateway.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2014-04-10-Ultimate-Exhibit_sized.pdf) that shows what a potential future phase of the Johnson County Gateway might look like (whenever they get the funding for it).
Your PDF shows the I-35 exchange in Lenexa. Not the US 69 interchange east of it where my photo got taken.
On another note, I noticed that US 69 lacks control cities on I-435. You figure that Fort Scott would be at least posted for US 69 south, especially being a major N-S route in Eastern Kansas. I understand, but not necessarily agree, why no city is used for NB as KDOT don't like to sign the big city of a metro area within its metro area, hence why Des Moines is used on I-35 north of Olathe and St. Louis for I-70 east of Bonner Springs.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jN8cRr5QCr7VoVKR8
Quote from: roadman65 on November 02, 2023, 04:33:01 PM
Your PDF shows the I-35 exchange in Lenexa. Not the US 69 interchange east of it where my photo got taken.
Yes. That PDF is for the Johnson County Gateway project. I did post the US69 interchange pdf a couple posts (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4720.msg2880832#msg2880832) before this one.
This here is awful.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53305680618_09f46efb27_k.jpg)
You can't read the I-70 shields. Not only here but on other guides at the forthcoming interchange.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=755408516613926&set=a.236420475179402&type=3
Detour set on US 54 near Mullinville. KDOT published the detour that will be in effect.
https://bit.ly/3Hhqyru
As part of ongoing preparation for cashless tolling on the Kansas Turnpike, KTA has released a schedule of per-mile rates that will apply when it goes live, which is currently planned for July 1, 2024. It is expected to save short-distance commuters money since toll amounts will no longer be rounded up to the nearest nickel or quarter. Transponder tolls will be half pay-by-mail tolls and start at $0.048 per mile for cars.
Press release (https://ksturnpike.com/cashless-tolling-structure)
Rate schedule (https://www.ksturnpike.com/uploads/misc-documents/Cashless-Toll-Rates.pdf)
I was poking around GSV and saw this interesting sign identifying the Kansas-Missouri border:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0896807,-94.6070424,3a,75y,359.17h,83.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgXhjvaUjnDXQu_zvOkqe5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's at the state line where westbound Avenida Cesar E. Chavez becomes Kansas Avenue, right next to Hy-Vee Arena. What's interesting to me is that it's not a typical "Welcome to Kansas" sign. It's just a small white sign with the word KANSAS on it in capital black letters, affixed to a light pole. It's very old school.
Quote from: mvak36 on November 01, 2023, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 01, 2023, 01:01:36 PMhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53299510473
This lane drop before an exit with two lanes defaulting to an exit in the same interchange is inconsistent.
Notice that the two far right lanes default into the exit, but the 3rd lane ends right before the 2nd ramp of the same interchange.
Why not have the ending lane continue onto I-435 West like the other two lanes do for I-435 East?
This is at the Johnson County Gateway. It's been a long time since I looked at the planning documentation in any detail, but I suspect the lane that ends just past the gore point is intended to be prolonged in a future phase.
I think that picture is on US 69 NB in Overland Park just north of the College Blvd interchange. I believe they will be fixing that as part of the 69Express project.
https://69express.ksdot.gov/renderings/
https://69express.ksdot.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-03-14_US69-DB-Project-Exhibit-Public-Meeting-1.pdf
They'll
kinda fix it, but the original plans for 69Express called for a flyover ramp from NB 69 to WB 435. See the Preferred Alternative Conceptual Alignment (https://69express.ksdot.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/69Express-EA-Chapter2_Final.pdf) from early 2022.
$126 million project announced to widen US-75 highway to four lanes north of Holton
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/126-million-project-announced-to-widen-us-75-highway-to-four-lanes-north-of-holton/ar-BB1jySHG
The $126 million project will widen US-75 to a four-lane expressway from Holton north to its intersection with K-20 highway, which connects with US-75 after running east from Horton past the Kickapoo Golden Eagle Casino
https://www.facebook.com/100064343545602/posts/pfbid02seeUWrhZnv2Tt18ojBbhhCJqoURdwsJfBdkpzRu77ijDRKadFZKkWcomBH5SxRbRl/?
Old K-14 to be closed this week for culvert repairs near Sterling.
Has KDOT completed the new US 166/400 freeway in Cherokee County from K-26 to the split of US 166 and US 400 east of Baxter Springs?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53635656785_65eb611268_k.jpg)
I-70 WB in Kansas City. I take the name of both former US Presidents has to do with I-70 serving both hometowns of these men?
Quote from: roadman65 on April 06, 2024, 06:12:39 PM(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53635656785_65eb611268_k.jpg)
I-70 WB in Kansas City. I take the name of both former US Presidents has to do with I-70 serving both hometowns of these men?
Yes.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/99vBoXuJr1KuDiyZ8
Why did KDOT replace the interchange here as seen in 2018 with a DDI?
The original set up looked real good as it had no stoplights, no ramp weaves, and Turner Diagonal was completely free flowing.
Maybe the former configuration was considered outdated, and they reconstructed the interchange to "modernize" it. I think it would only be considered a mistake if the new configuration greatly increased congestion in the vicinity of the interchange.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 15, 2024, 10:18:52 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/99vBoXuJr1KuDiyZ8
Why did KDOT replace the interchange here as seen in 2018 with a DDI?
The original set up looked real good as it had no stoplights, no ramp weaves, and Turner Diagonal was completely free flowing.
The project was part of a process to open 300 acres for private development (https://www.beyondthecontract.com/turner-industrial-site-finally-finds-development/).
The parclo A2 interchange at Riverview Avenue was also replaced with an at-grade intersection to accommodate the construction of an Amazon fullfillment center.
Freeway being downgraded here like many other places. Figures.
Development or social class issues seem to be killing freeways. Then again the Turner Diagonal no longer is US 40 so, many city officials see it as a wasted freeway anyway. FL 681 fell prey to this near Venice, FL. A freeway turned arterial to accommodate developments along its path.
Makes sense.
Yeah, Wyandotte County fucked up the Turner Diagonal real good. If it wasn't enough to ruin a freeway, they also put hideous signs on it.
KDOT posted the Public Information Open House (https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/bc517c0bf7c34c078e08e653ade7327f) for the K-10 Corridor Capacity Improvements Project. The plan will be to add a third lane on K-10, improve several interchanges, and potentially add a new interchange at Lone Elm Road. Some interesting takeaways:
- A study of a potential new interchange at Clare Road just west of K-7 determined it would cause an "unacceptable increase in traffic" on nearby roads in Olathe. I know this proposal was very unpopular with residents to the south of K-10 in Cedar Creek and along West Valley Parkway.
- At Lone Elm Road, the potential improvements include an overpass, a full modified diamond interchange, a modified diamond interchange that only allows access to the north, and a modified diamond with north access only but a sidewalk connection to the south.
- At Lexington Avenue in DeSoto, they're looking at either realigning Lexington to the west and constructing a DDI that would connect to 91st Street with a roundabout or building a SPUI where the current folded diamond is. The realignment and DDI would allow reactivation of the railroad spur south of Commerce Drive to the Panasonic battery plant and Astra Enterprise Park (https://www.astraenterprisepark.com/), which advertises potential future rail connectivity as part of its appeal.
- The Evening Star Road interchange would either become a DDI with a realigned 103rd Street to the south or a partial free-flow interchange with direct connections to and from eastbound K-10 from 103rd Street. Construction of a new roundabout at Evening Star and 103rd and on the south leg of the existing interchange is already underway (https://ikewebstorage.blob.core.windows.net/projects/files/De-Soto_Strip-Map.pdf) ahead of the opening of the Panasonic plant and nearby logistics facilities.
Interestingly, the Preliminary Implementation Plan shows what appears to be the replacement of the two cloverleaf ramps on the west side of the K-10/K-7 interchange with flyovers to and from K-10, but they did not provide any additional details on what those improvements will look like. It appears to also include completion of the unfunded phase of the Johnson County Gateway project, although the flyover from northbound I-35 to westbound I-435 and the improvements to I-435 north of K-10 are listed as "long term" projects. No proposed schedule is provided.