Caltrans ordered to sell 42 houses and complexes along the surface I-710 Route

[404inthe404]

I was driving around SoCal the last couple of days for work and I listen to the news talk 1070 a lot to keep up to date with traffic. They ran a story all day yesterday that Caltrans was ordered (presumably by the state or a court) to sell 42 houses and apartment complexes along the surface I-710 alignment since that alignment is officially dead. Are they moving forward with a tunnel option or is the I-710 completion doomed altogether?

As an aside, I was in Indio for my last stop, and to get home to Vegas I decided to take the "10 minute slower" route through Yucca Valley rather than the standard 210/15 route. It was a lot of fun, but man do you go a LONG ways without seeing a gas station. I didn't run out but it became an issue and I had to do a late-stage re-route to ensure I would be okay. If anyone wants to go 50/50 on a gas station investment right here

https://goo.gl/maps/Ye5CRB47MwT2

I think it would pay off handsomely. I'm only 25% kidding about that.

[coatimundi]

There's a somewhat famous gas station at Amboy on the old Route 66, just south of there: http://www.rt66roys.com/
Not cheap, but more charming than anything in Barstow.

I've always thought that, if someone could open a station at I-10's exit 168 - at the south end of Joshua Tree - they could really clean up. I realize that there's a station at the next exit down, at Chiricao Summit, but no one exits there except if they (are unlucky enough to) need gas. People get off for Joshua Tree all the time to enter the park, and a little store selling drinks would do really well.

What's the "10 minute slower route"? 247? Through Joshua Tree?

[404inthe404]

There's a somewhat famous gas station at Amboy on the old Route 66, just south of there: http://www.rt66roys.com/
Not cheap, but more charming than anything in Barstow.

It sure isn't cheap.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJzXRZTjkay/?taken-by=jason.pawloski

I did end up stopping there to buy water and use their restroom, but I wasn't going to buy gas out of principle and because I was *sure* there must be a station near I-40, right? Right?! When I got to the 40, I was not only surprised that there wasn't one in eyesight, but the closest one was close to 50 miles in either direction.

What's the "10 minute slower route"? 247? Through Joshua Tree?

From the 10, took 62 north through 29 Palms to Godwin Rd which leads to Amboy Rd, then snaked around the big mountain and into Amboy after 40 miles or so. Took a right on National Trails Highway which passes the Roy's Gas Station listed above (and is extensively painted with US 66 markers on the roadway), and took a left at Kelbaker Rd. Went over the 40 and into Kelso after 34 miles of driving the road, and then I had to make the crucial decision - take the long way home via Baker, which would get me gas in 34 miles and guarantee me adequate fuel for the rest of the trip, or take a right onto Kelso-Cima Rd and plunge into the unknown, eventually ending up at I-15 near Nipton. In hindsight I could have made it if I stayed the course, but I played it safe and went through Baker.

Leaving 29 Palms on CA 62, there is a dire warning that the next services are 100 miles away (probably at Parker Dam?) After I-40, there is another sign that Kelso has no services and the closest services were in Baker 50-some-odd miles away from the sign. The "100 mile" sign was in standard white-on-blue but the Baker 50 mile sign was a beat up, informal sign that's clearly been there for decades.

EDIT: fixed typo

[mcarling]

The number of gas station is diminishing, not increasing, for a number of good reasons.  It's not clear that anyone will still be manufacturing gasoline-powered vehicles ten years from now, so building a new gas station anywhere would be a poor investment.

[sparker]

Getting back to the OP original subject, the San Gabriel Valley Tribune notes that the 42 properties to be sold are actually in El Sereno along the southernmost segment of the former I-710 surface alignment.  While the sale order was actually issued months ago by the legislature, the Office of Business & Transportation, the governing body for Caltrans, finally was ordered to act by Gov. Brown.  A controversy has subsequently arisen; many of the properties in question are presently occupied by lower-income renters, and it is feared that a sale at present market value will displace several (if not most) of these people.  The sale is actually supposed to happen later this fall; Caltrans is, in the interim, scrambling to devise a way to keep as many of the current residents as possible in their homes.  Stay tuned -- this isn't over by any means.     

[Max Rockatansky]

Any pictures of the Kelso Dunes, Kelso Depot, or even just the red asphalt on Kelbaker Road in the Mojave Preserve?  If you would kept east on Old 66 would have done through some more ghost towns; Chambless, Danby, Essex, and Goffs...all before US 95 north to Vegas.  Cadiz Summit is cool to see with the motor lodge ruins, the Amboy Crater can be driven up to now, if you look hard enough you might be able to find some trace ruins of Homer or Jaba, AND just east of Essex is there an abandoned portion of post 1931 US 66 that put out of service in the last four years.

I-710...I just assumed that's been dead as a door knob for the last forever.

[Rothman]

I've got pictures of the depot and dunes, but sharing photos on this forum is annoying (having to put them on some other site first and then link to them there).  I'll get them on my flickr site...

[coatimundi]

I have a pic of Kelso Depot somewhere, but I can't find it outright. I try to get people out there all the time. I think it's cute that they operate the little cafe.

It's an interesting concept how it's preferable to have Caltrans as your landlord, except for the fact that they might just destroy your house one day. It's like a little bit of socialism.
Why was there so much push for them to relinquish this bit of property? I'm certain that Caltrans owns other lands, somewhere.

Off-topic, but ADOT owns several properties in Downtown Tucson, along the proposed/abandoned I-710/Aviation corridor. The tenants seem to have somewhat of a love-hate relationship, realizing that private ownership would probably mean gentrification but also disliking having to deal with a bureaucracy as a landlord. A few years ago, ADOT threatened randomly to evict everyone because the buildings were suddenly deemed unsafe. I could see that happening in ~Pasadena (is that just unincorporated LA County?) along 710.

[404inthe404]

I have a pic of Kelso Depot somewhere, but I can't find it outright. I try to get people out there all the time. I think it's cute that they operate the little cafe.

FYI the Cafe is closed. There was a sign in the information board saying they are looking for a new vendor. Maybe that's investment opportunity #2 in this thread? That's a 100% joke though.

[Rothman]

Here we go, from August 2012:

Kelso Dunes

Mojave - Kelso Dunes 2

Kelso Depot

Mojave - Kelso Depot

Kelbaker Road

Mojave - Kelbaker Rd

[coatimundi]

FYI the Cafe is closed. There was a sign in the information board saying they are looking for a new vendor. Maybe that's investment opportunity #2 in this thread? That's a 100% joke though.

Oh, those flaky concessionaires. Probably for the best (the food kinda sucked).
I doubt it's open to the proverbial mom & pop since it's technically a federal contract, with all of the red tape and restrictions that go along with that.
The Durham Museum in Omaha, which is built into the old train station, has a similar restored lunch counter that's open on weekends. I've always thought it was cool.

[mrsman]

The number of gas station is diminishing, not increasing, for a number of good reasons.  It's not clear that anyone will still be manufacturing gasoline-powered vehicles ten years from now, so building a new gas station anywhere would be a poor investment.

It is especially hard to find gas in these smaller desert towns.  Not only do they lack population, but they are relatively close to the borders on AZ and NV.  Nobody will buy gas here unless they have to because of CA's high gas tax.

[Max Rockatansky]

The number of gas station is diminishing, not increasing, for a number of good reasons.  It's not clear that anyone will still be manufacturing gasoline-powered vehicles ten years from now, so building a new gas station anywhere would be a poor investment.

What?    I would speculate it's going to take AT MINIMUM half a century for electrics in the most optimistic scenario even to occupy 30% of the automobile market.  You have such a well established power train configuration with internal combustion that has over a century of engineering behind which drives the costs of R&D and production down.  There is still a huge premium even for a hybrid car over a non-hybrid counterpart.  Batteries aren't cheap and they are still have a long way to go to catch up with modern economy cars for range.

[Exit58]

What?    I would speculate it's going to take AT MINIMUM half a century for electrics in the most optimistic scenario even to occupy 30% of the automobile market.  You have such a well established power train configuration with internal combustion that has over a century of engineering behind which drives the costs of R&D and production down.  There is still a huge premium even for a hybrid car over a non-hybrid counterpart.  Batteries aren't cheap and they are still have a long way to go to catch up with modern economy cars for range.

I wouldn't mind owning a hybrid, plug in hybrid, or full electric car (in fact I am looking into purchasing one), but the problem with the last two is the fact that it still takes hours to charge the car (unless you have a Tesla, then you can get to like 80% in 40 minutes). That gets you at the best 120-150 miles (again, 200+ on well-equipped Teslas). My current car gets 32MPG on the freeway with a 17 gallon tank. That's 544 miles of 'range' that takes 5 minutes to 'recharge'. I always saw E85 or Hydrogen as the best clean-air replacements for gasoline, with E85 being a lot less expensive of a conversion.

Speaking of which, are GM and Ford still making FlexFuel cars? Those are probably going to win in the short-term - paired with an electric motor at some point - with electricity still a ways in the future. The current technology for charging batteries is very slow at moving current as not to overcharge the batteries, creating something unstable. Just now companies are putting technology into phones that allow them to charge to 80% within 20-30 mins, but that's not much better then were Tesla is at time wise. That last 20% is always the hardest to predict to avoid overcharging, that's why you'll notice on your computer or cell phone the first 80% may charge in and hour and a half, but that last 20% will take the same amount of time. I don't see gas stations going anywhere anytime soon.

Back on topic, I never saw the tunnel as anything more then a hope and dream. Oh well, but I just see South Pasadena coming back and complaining about the traffic in about 10 years or so.

[sdmichael]

The number of gas station is diminishing, not increasing, for a number of good reasons.  It's not clear that anyone will still be manufacturing gasoline-powered vehicles ten years from now, so building a new gas station anywhere would be a poor investment.

It is especially hard to find gas in these smaller desert towns.  Not only do they lack population, but they are relatively close to the borders on AZ and NV.  Nobody will buy gas here unless they have to because of CA's high gas tax.

It is a high tax? It is actually quite low comparatively and has gotten lower recently. Gasoline sold here in California has to be specially formulated, hence the usual higher cost. Transporting gasoline to the far reaches of the Mojave isn't exactly cheap either.

[coatimundi]

Yes, the "taxes are too damn high" comment shows a lack of understanding of the situation with gasoline, and that misguided opinion is keeping the fuel taxes too low and keeping road improvements from happening.
Just because California has relatively high gas costs does not mean that it has relatively high gas taxes.

[Max Rockatansky]

The reason gas costs so much out in the middle of the Mojave is the the transportation costs are often high given the remoteness of the landscape or there is something additional going on.  Fenner if I recall correctly is actually powered by gas generators which would make the explanation as to why it costs so much there. I "think" Amboy is on the power grid but I'm not certain of that either, at least they offer all octane levels now.  Needles is starting to normalize somewhat with chain stations but they are priced comparably to Ludlow. 

You can see a similar situation to Fenner on CA 1 in Big Sur.  Conversely the Florida Keys have the same issue due to frieght costs being so high past Miami, so it's not just a California thing. 

[mrsman]

I didn't know about the gas formulation thing, but for whatever reason the prices in CA (all over the state) are a lot higher than neighboring states.

Check out gasbuddy.com , a site that lists the prevailing cost of gas at most gas stations in the USA.  One feature they have is a gas map that is color coded if you zoom out far enough.  Cheapest gas is green, most expensive is dark red, with orange and yellow in between.  Yes, CA is nearly all red to denote how substantially more expensive it is to buy gas there.

In the northeast, NJ is an island of green in a sea of yellow and orange.  It is known by locals that if you are doing a trip to NY - fill up in NJ.  NJ has less taxes than neighboring states plus they have refineries so the transport costs of the fuel are lower.  They make up for the lower taxes with more tolls though.

[Brandon]

The number of gas station is diminishing, not increasing, for a number of good reasons.  It's not clear that anyone will still be manufacturing gasoline-powered vehicles ten years from now, so building a new gas station anywhere would be a poor investment.

Pardon me, but...



This has been the dumbest comment I've seen all day.  Electric vehicles are nowhere near ready for prime time as they cannot be refueled to full capacity in the same time as gasoline or diesel fuel powered vehicles.  Who wants to stop every 100 miles for 10 minutes?

Also, I've seen quite a few new filling stations being built.  The reason a bunch were abandoned about 15-20 years ago had to do with required changes to their underground storage tanks.  They chose to close instead.

[sdmichael]

I didn't know about the gas formulation thing, but for whatever reason the prices in CA (all over the state) are a lot higher than neighboring states.

Check out gasbuddy.com , a site that lists the prevailing cost of gas at most gas stations in the USA.  One feature they have is a gas map that is color coded if you zoom out far enough.  Cheapest gas is green, most expensive is dark red, with orange and yellow in between.  Yes, CA is nearly all red to denote how substantially more expensive it is to buy gas there.

In the northeast, NJ is an island of green in a sea of yellow and orange.  It is known by locals that if you are doing a trip to NY - fill up in NJ.  NJ has less taxes than neighboring states plus they have refineries so the transport costs of the fuel are lower.  They make up for the lower taxes with more tolls though.

We also use more gasoline than... most of the rest of the United States. We have more cars than many other countries. The resultant pollution is magnified by this and as a result we have the highest emission standards. Go look under your car hood and see for yourself - Is it a 49 state car or CA and Federal car? We have issues that most other states don't simply based on our size and population. So, you could compare California to another state, or try it with France. Those other states can also "share" gasoline, where we cannot due to the formulation. That also brings the cost up, but also reduces pollution.

Point being, there are many more issues involved. How about the geography? The bulk of the population in California is also pretty far removed from other state borders. Bringing goods out to those areas usually involves crossing a steep mountain range and crossing a large desert or empty expanse. Not many other states have that either. That also brings up the costs of things - same for goods being imported.

[sdmichael]

For a map of the r/w showing the area in question - http://www.socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/route_710_freeway_stub_ends/