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A big disagreement over CA 198 into SNP/KCNP as in an arguement.

Started by ACSCmapcollector, March 14, 2017, 06:12:34 PM

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ACSCmapcollector

I have a disagreement that CA state route 198 is signed within Sequioa and Kings Canyon National Park, all the way up to CA state route 180 according to a friend who says it does, on Google maps.


oscar

Google Maps is not at all reliable (and sometimes is a joke) about route numbering, as many of us have found out the hard way. It even differs sometimes from what you can see in its own Street View imagery.

Look instead to how state law defines the route, as quoted on cahighways.org. The law says route 198 ends at the Sequoia National Park boundary.

I traveled as much of the supposed route within Sequoia and Kings Canyon parks as I could in February or March of last year (snow closures blocked much of the road). I saw not a trace of route 198 signage within in Sequoia NP. In Kings Canyon, there is at least one non-Caltrans spec (white spade, not green) route 198 sign, similar to fake route markers seen in Yosemite NP.  It tells travelers how to get directly to Sequoia, and to CA 198, but doesn't mean route 198 reaches into either park.
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Max Rockatansky

#2
It doesn't and doesn't have END sign is at the entrance of Sequoia National Park in Three Rivers either for that matter.  There are signs saying "TO" CA 198 on the Generals Highway on Park Service background signage, but no reassurance markers.  CA 180 IS signed within Kings Canyon National Park but isn't officially part of the route.  I actually did a whole huge write up on this subject on Max's Roads Pacific Southwest if you want to have a gander at what is actually in the field.

I'll echo what oscar said in that Google Maps isn't exactly known for accuracy in reporting actual highway data....  Cahighways is the most accurate source you're going to find on anything related to Caltrans maintenance.

ACSCmapcollector

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2017, 09:17:26 PM
It doesn't and doesn't have END sign is at the entrance of Sequoia National Park in Three Rivers either for that matter.  There are signs saying "TO" CA 198 on the Generals Highway on Park Service background signage, but no reassurance markers.  CA 180 IS signed within Kings Canyon National Park but isn't officially part of the route.  I actually did a whole huge write up on this subject on Max's Roads Pacific Southwest if you want to have a gander at what is actually in the field.

I'll echo what oscar said in that Google Maps isn't exactly known for accuracy in reporting actual highway data....  Cahighways is the most accurate source you're going to find on anything related to Caltrans maintenance.


Yes i do, please Max...where is the link?

kurumi

When I was in the area in 2009, there were two "END 198" signs eastbound, one for trucks. Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/tags/ca198/
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Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kurumi on March 14, 2017, 10:01:59 PM
When I was in the area in 2009, there were two "END 198" signs eastbound, one for trucks. Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/tags/ca198/

Someone jacked the END placard between 2009 and 2012, it ain't there anymore:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4814823,-118.8381124,3a,57.7y,6.32h,90.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZfY6I-Xs49AaNAsX-zpIBw!2e0!5s20071001T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Quote from: ACSCmapcollector on March 14, 2017, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2017, 09:17:26 PM
It doesn't and doesn't have END sign is at the entrance of Sequoia National Park in Three Rivers either for that matter.  There are signs saying "TO" CA 198 on the Generals Highway on Park Service background signage, but no reassurance markers.  CA 180 IS signed within Kings Canyon National Park but isn't officially part of the route.  I actually did a whole huge write up on this subject on Max's Roads Pacific Southwest if you want to have a gander at what is actually in the field.

I'll echo what oscar said in that Google Maps isn't exactly known for accuracy in reporting actual highway data....  Cahighways is the most accurate source you're going to find on anything related to Caltrans maintenance.


Yes i do, please Max...where is the link?

All my signage captures for Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks can be found here:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskPotUcS

ACSCmapcollector

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2017, 11:13:19 PM
Quote from: kurumi on March 14, 2017, 10:01:59 PM
When I was in the area in 2009, there were two "END 198" signs eastbound, one for trucks. Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/tags/ca198/

Someone jacked the END placard between 2009 and 2012, it ain't there anymore:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4814823,-118.8381124,3a,57.7y,6.32h,90.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZfY6I-Xs49AaNAsX-zpIBw!2e0!5s20071001T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Quote from: ACSCmapcollector on March 14, 2017, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2017, 09:17:26 PM
It doesn't and doesn't have END sign is at the entrance of Sequoia National Park in Three Rivers either for that matter.  There are signs saying "TO" CA 198 on the Generals Highway on Park Service background signage, but no reassurance markers.  CA 180 IS signed within Kings Canyon National Park but isn't officially part of the route.  I actually did a whole huge write up on this subject on Max's Roads Pacific Southwest if you want to have a gander at what is actually in the field.

I'll echo what oscar said in that Google Maps isn't exactly known for accuracy in reporting actual highway data....  Cahighways is the most accurate source you're going to find on anything related to Caltrans maintenance.


Yes i do, please Max...where is the link?

All my signage captures for Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks can be found here:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskPotUcS

So they were stolen, Max, the END placards?

NE2

Your third girlfriend stole them to hit your fourth girlfriend with.
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I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

ACSCmapcollector

Quote from: NE2 on March 15, 2017, 06:52:29 PM
Your third girlfriend stole them to hit your fourth girlfriend with.

No because I don't think so, and you are just joking NE2.  I can handle your humor too.  This is state of California, Caltrans property and needs to be replaced soon.

Max Rockatansky

Well...I don't think it is getting replaced soon.  The placard was present in Kurmuri's Flickr pic on 2009 but was gone by the 2012 GSV shot.  Suffice to say that it hasn't been a big priority the last half decade to get a new placard up.  Strange thing though, usually people steal the shields and not the placards.  Maybe it blew off in a storm or something?...  Anyways, the western terminus of 198 still has an END placard at US 101 if anyone was curious. 

kendancy66

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
Well...I don't think it is getting replaced soon.  The placard was present in Kurmuri's Flickr pic on 2009 but was gone by the 2012 GSV shot.  Suffice to say that it hasn't been a big priority the last half decade to get a new placard up.  Strange thing though, usually people steal the shields and not the placards.  Maybe it blew off in a storm or something?...  Anyways, the western terminus of 198 still has an END placard at US 101 if anyone was curious. 

maybe they can "borrow" this one that was orphaned by Laguna Beach

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5436108,-117.7844851,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSsk1mZw_MQNRGMwxis_hVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kendancy66 on June 06, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
Well...I don't think it is getting replaced soon.  The placard was present in Kurmuri's Flickr pic on 2009 but was gone by the 2012 GSV shot.  Suffice to say that it hasn't been a big priority the last half decade to get a new placard up.  Strange thing though, usually people steal the shields and not the placards.  Maybe it blew off in a storm or something?...  Anyways, the western terminus of 198 still has an END placard at US 101 if anyone was curious. 

maybe they can "borrow" this one that was orphaned by Laguna Beach

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5436108,-117.7844851,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSsk1mZw_MQNRGMwxis_hVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

A new shield and "end"  placard got put up last year:

https://flic.kr/p/WE5ne5

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2018, 01:55:35 PM
Quote from: kendancy66 on June 06, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
Well...I don't think it is getting replaced soon.  The placard was present in Kurmuri's Flickr pic on 2009 but was gone by the 2012 GSV shot.  Suffice to say that it hasn't been a big priority the last half decade to get a new placard up.  Strange thing though, usually people steal the shields and not the placards.  Maybe it blew off in a storm or something?...  Anyways, the western terminus of 198 still has an END placard at US 101 if anyone was curious. 

maybe they can "borrow" this one that was orphaned by Laguna Beach

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5436108,-117.7844851,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSsk1mZw_MQNRGMwxis_hVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

A new shield and "end"  placard got put up last year:

https://flic.kr/p/WE5ne5

Now -- if only D12 would replace the CA 133 sign that was pilfered from the Laguna Beach "end" array (although why they placed it a really long way from the actual end of the highway is puzzling).  But D12 has never been particularly prompt with (or seeming concerned about) surface-street signage, even in a heavily-trafficked corridor such as CA 133. 

But, OTOH, glad to see that an end array was finally placed on EB 198. 

kendancy66

Quote from: sparker on June 07, 2018, 01:51:04 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2018, 01:55:35 PM
Quote from: kendancy66 on June 06, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
Well...I don't think it is getting replaced soon.  The placard was present in Kurmuri's Flickr pic on 2009 but was gone by the 2012 GSV shot.  Suffice to say that it hasn't been a big priority the last half decade to get a new placard up.  Strange thing though, usually people steal the shields and not the placards.  Maybe it blew off in a storm or something?...  Anyways, the western terminus of 198 still has an END placard at US 101 if anyone was curious. 

maybe they can "borrow" this one that was orphaned by Laguna Beach

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5436108,-117.7844851,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSsk1mZw_MQNRGMwxis_hVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

A new shield and "end"  placard got put up last year:

https://flic.kr/p/WE5ne5

Now -- if only D12 would replace the CA 133 sign that was pilfered from the Laguna Beach "end" array (although why they placed it a really long way from the actual end of the highway is puzzling).  But D12 has never been particularly prompt with (or seeming concerned about) surface-street signage, even in a heavily-trafficked corridor such as CA 133. 

But, OTOH, glad to see that an end array was finally placed on EB 198. 

I was surprised when the 133 shield was taken away to make room for the signal ahead sign.  I agree that the signal ahead sign is needed. But leaving the END sign does not make any sense.  As for the far away location, is probably due to avoid message overload at the actual intersection.  The biggest priority there is most likely pedestrian safety and keeping drivers from running them over.

sparker

I remember back in early '69 when CA 133 was originally signed; the END assembly was right at the Broadway intersection with CA 1/Coast Highway (PCH), about 5 yards or so from the intersection itself and included a crossing-highway CA 1 trailblazer aside the "END 133" array.  Of course, that was in the days when the Division of Highways actually cared about providing consistent signage. 

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sparker on June 07, 2018, 01:51:04 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2018, 01:55:35 PM
Quote from: kendancy66 on June 06, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 15, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
Well...I don't think it is getting replaced soon.  The placard was present in Kurmuri's Flickr pic on 2009 but was gone by the 2012 GSV shot.  Suffice to say that it hasn't been a big priority the last half decade to get a new placard up.  Strange thing though, usually people steal the shields and not the placards.  Maybe it blew off in a storm or something?...  Anyways, the western terminus of 198 still has an END placard at US 101 if anyone was curious. 

maybe they can "borrow" this one that was orphaned by Laguna Beach

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5436108,-117.7844851,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSsk1mZw_MQNRGMwxis_hVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

A new shield and "end"  placard got put up last year:

https://flic.kr/p/WE5ne5

Now -- if only D12 would replace the CA 133 sign that was pilfered from the Laguna Beach "end" array (although why they placed it a really long way from the actual end of the highway is puzzling).  But D12 has never been particularly prompt with (or seeming concerned about) surface-street signage, even in a heavily-trafficked corridor such as CA 133. 

But, OTOH, glad to see that an end array was finally placed on EB 198.

Seems like D6 has been a recent kick of storing signage in it's area.  198 and 43 in particular have seen huge improvements with tons of new signage these last two years.

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2018, 03:59:28 PM
Seems like D6 has been a recent kick of storing signage in it's area.  198 and 43 in particular have seen huge improvements with tons of new signage these last two years.

Glad to hear that some districts are apparently immune from the general Caltrans signage-apathy virus!  Sometimes local incentive can overcome agency trends -- one can only hope that this sort of thing spreads (please send some of that up to D4 -- we certainly need a dose of that version of "5-Hour Energy" around here!).



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