First doghouse

[traffic light guy]

I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R

Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.

Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.

Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?

No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive. I don't have a weird obsession with Eagle flatback doghouses, although they're not the first doghouses ever, I find them fascinating because when it comes to their age, they're so far removed from other doghouses! Same goes for other old doghouses. My next mission is to find those so-called Crouse-Hinds Type M doghouses that signals unlimited told me about.

Yes the t-bone signals did exsist back then:
T-bone Eagle Signal by thesignalman, on Flickr

[Roadsguy]

I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R

Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.

Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.

Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?

No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.

How is it set up, then?

[traffic light guy]

I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R

Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.

Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.

Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?

No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.

How is it set up, then?

Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection

[jakeroot]

I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R

Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.

Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.

Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?

No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.

How is it set up, then?

Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection

No, he's curious to know how the signal timing works, if it's not split-phased. I can't find any street view where both sides have green orbs simultaneously. If the arrows came on separately, that would induce yellow trap. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be the case, but why no Street View images of simultaneous green orbs?

[traffic light guy]

I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R

Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.

Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.

Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?

No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.

How is it set up, then?

Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection

No, he's curious to know how the signal timing works, if it's not split-phased. I can't find any street view where both sides have green orbs simultaneously. If the arrows came on separately, that would induce yellow trap. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be the case, but why no Street View images of simultaneous green orbs?

Not sure, most intersections are wired to have split phasing

LG-M327

[jeffandnicole]

I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R

Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.

Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.

Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?

No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.

How is it set up, then?

Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection

No, he's curious to know how the signal timing works, if it's not split-phased. I can't find any street view where both sides have green orbs simultaneously. If the arrows came on separately, that would induce yellow trap. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be the case, but why no Street View images of simultaneous green orbs?

Not sure, most intersections are wired to have split phasing

LG-M327

I guess it's ultimately how the wiring was done, and what the controller has the capability of doing.  Modern controllers are just like any other computer system.  Sure, you can put a controller in that's designed to handle the most complex signal configurations at every intersection, but why spend the money when it's unlikely it'll ever be needed?   If in the rare instance they'll change the phasing at a signal, they can install a new controller.  But also in most cases, changing the phasing also changes the infrastructure around the light (additional lanes, changing signal heads), so the controller and/or controller box will be moved or modified anyway.

[Mark68]

Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:

https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2

[traffic light guy]

Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:

https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2

Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes

LG-M327

[jakeroot]

Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:

https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2

Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes

And they look to be in pretty good shape, too. The arrows might be newer...up close shot: https://goo.gl/v13Xnp -- note the use of arrows overhead but not on the side. That may mean they were a later addition.

[traffic light guy]

Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:

https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2

Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes

And they look to be in pretty good shape, too. The arrows might be newer...up close shot: https://goo.gl/v13Xnp -- note the use of arrows overhead but not on the side. That may mean they were a later addition.

The arrows were made by the "Bullseye", and the actual signal heads are Marbelites. The Bullseyes ceased production shorty before 1980. So I think the arrows are just as old as the rest of the intersection.

LG-M327

[jakeroot]

Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:

https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2

Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes

And they look to be in pretty good shape, too. The arrows might be newer...up close shot: https://goo.gl/v13Xnp -- note the use of arrows overhead but not on the side. That may mean they were a later addition.

The arrows were made by the "Bullseye", and the actual signal heads are Marbelites. The Bullseyes ceased production shorty before 1980. So I think the arrows are just as old as the rest of the intersection.

I see. You're probably right. It's possible the arrows were leftover and not used until later, but that's not very likely.

[traffic light guy]

I've noticed something odd about the old doghouses in my area, they have a bizarre sequence in which the green arrow is lit during the transition from the yellow orb to red. Not sure if these signals still had this funky sequence back when they were being operated mechanically.  I've never seen this on a modern doghouse, only on these old Eagles:

Eagle flatback Doghouse (incandescent yellow) by thesignalman, on Flickr

Eagle flatback doghouse by thesignalman, on Flickr

[roadfro]

I've noticed something odd about the old doghouses in my area, they have a bizarre sequence in which the green arrow is lit during the transition from the yellow orb to red. Not sure if these signals still had this funky sequence back when they were being operated mechanically.  I've never seen this on a modern doghouse, only on these old Eagles:

Nothing innately bizarre about that. I'd guess the signal is running a right turn overlap between the adjacent through green phase to the complimentary left turn on the side road. (In most similar installations in Nevada, the green arrow wouldn't be on during the adjacent through phase–but I could see the green arrow being used if there is not a walk activation during the cycle or peds were prohibited.)

[jakeroot]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

[traffic light guy]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

In my opinion, the arrows should only be lit when the intersection is in an all red interval.

LG-M327

[jakeroot]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

In my opinion, the arrows should only be lit when the intersection is in an all red interval.

I understand the right arrow coming on after a few moments, as that's usually when the complementary/parallel left turn has their green arrow ("filter signal") but definitely not before that. I understand the original idea: traffic had a green light, but they'd have to momentarily stop before the green arrow would come on...may as well leave the arrow on during that gaps. But that doesn't work with permissive left turns.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

NY has a lot of yellow ball green right arrow signals like that still, but they are slowly disappearing

[Super Mateo]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

That phasing doesn't work.  That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals.  Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle.  That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.

[paulthemapguy]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

Thank you for bringing that up because that makes me completely livid.  It happens at this intersection in IL all the time and I have to make a note not to turn right until the light is fully red, since oncoming cars turning left will be escaping the box.  In fact, GSV shows the right arrow as the yellow ball is visible!!  You can see the bullshit in action!!  Infuriating!   

[traffic light guy]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

That phasing doesn't work.  That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals.  Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle.  That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.

I think it is kinda dangerous to have the arrows lit alongside the yellow orb. I think it's a very bizzare signal sequence. That's why I don't see it on modern Doghouses

[mrsman]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

That phasing doesn't work.  That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals.  Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle.  That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.

I think it is kinda dangerous to have the arrows lit alongside the yellow orb. I think it's a very bizzare signal sequence. That's why I don't see it on modern Doghouses

It is only dangerous where there is a conflict.  If the next signal phase is a leading protected left turn for cross traffic, green arrow + yellow would be OK so long as there is no pedestrian conflict or conflict with opposing left turns.  In most cases, if pedestrians could cross there, they face a solid hand (DON'T WALK) when yellow comes on, so that would not normally be the problem.  Jakeroot properly identified the conflict with opposing permissive left turns that could exist.  But in situations where there is no conflict (opposing left prohibited, opposing left restricted to protected only, or no opposing left [T-intersections]), this is actually helpful to keep traffic flowing.

There is an example near me that does this.  T-intersection, so no opposing left turn.  Also, pedestrians are prohibitied from making this crossing.  FWIW, the green arrow also comes on during the green orb phase as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0471586,-77.048495,3a,75y,5.11h,87.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjaD908dt8uz0G_gPEl3cgg!2e0!5s20151001T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[roadfro]

I've noticed something odd about the old doghouses in my area, they have a bizarre sequence in which the green arrow is lit during the transition from the yellow orb to red. Not sure if these signals still had this funky sequence back when they were being operated mechanically.  I've never seen this on a modern doghouse, only on these old Eagles:

Nothing innately bizarre about that. I'd guess the signal is running a right turn overlap between the adjacent through green phase to the complimentary left turn on the side road. (In most similar installations in Nevada, the green arrow wouldn't be on during the adjacent through phase–but I could see the green arrow being used if there is not a walk activation during the cycle or peds were prohibited.)

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I assume it was (since it was right after my post).

In my phasing above, I probably wasn't abundantly clear with what I was describing. Let's use the westbound approach of Flamingo Road at Las Vegas Blvd (street view) as an example. Note that this is a protected/permitted right turn, and that the intersection has protected left turns on all approaches with U-turns are prohibited (both are essential to the premise).

The street view shows westbound Flamingo through traffic having a green, but let's say it was also was showing a green right arrow simultaneously (which is completely feasible here since there is no pedestrian crossing at street level). Pretend the next movement phase is the southbound left turn–this would be the "complementary" left turn to the westbound right (since there's no U-turn conflict).

If the westbound right turn arrows were programmed with an overlap, this could lead to a situation in which the westbound yellow orb and green right arrow can display at the same time–westbound through phase is ending and southbound left begins, but there is no need to terminate the westbound right turn during this transition.

[jakeroot]

I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.

That phasing doesn't work.  That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals.  Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle.  That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.

Thank you for bringing that up because that makes me completely livid.  It happens at this intersection in IL all the time and I have to make a note not to turn right until the light is fully red, since oncoming cars turning left will be escaping the box.  In fact, GSV shows the right arrow as the yellow ball is visible!!  You can see the bullshit in action!!  Infuriating!

I think it is kinda dangerous to have the arrows lit alongside the yellow orb. I think it's a very bizzare signal sequence. That's why I don't see it on modern Doghouses

Definitely a dangerous situation with permissive lefts. In Paul's GSV link, the oncoming car (Honda Civic) is not turning during the end of the cycle, which is very unusual in IL. Perhaps they recognize the awkward phasing, too.

It is only dangerous where there is a conflict.  If the next signal phase is a leading protected left turn for cross traffic, green arrow + yellow would be OK so long as there is no pedestrian conflict or conflict with opposing left turns.  In most cases, if pedestrians could cross there, they face a solid hand (DON'T WALK) when yellow comes on, so that would not normally be the problem.  Jakeroot properly identified the conflict with opposing permissive left turns that could exist.  But in situations where there is no conflict (opposing left prohibited, opposing left restricted to protected only, or no opposing left [T-intersections]), this is actually helpful to keep traffic flowing.

I have no problems with right-turn overlap phasing at protected lefts (with prohibited U-turns), or at intersections without any other conflict. Hell, I'd rather see a permanently-burning green arrow (like here -- protected-only lefts) at all installations with protected lefts, when there isn't any other traffic that would interfere. If the ped-signal came up, it would turn off. And any time the oncoming left or traffic from left went, it would turn off. But otherwise, no reason for deactivation. There's no other conflict.

If the westbound right turn arrows were programmed with an overlap, this could lead to a situation in which the westbound yellow orb and green right arrow can display at the same time–westbound through phase is ending and southbound left begins, but there is no need to terminate the westbound right turn during this transition.

Makes total sense. See my above reply to mrsman.

[traffic light guy]

I think I've found the suposed Crouse-hinds type M doghouses that signals unlimted told me about. Here it is:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/busman_49/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMzgyMTQyMg==/?ref=1


Here it is on google maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/E+N+Broadway+%26+Silver+Dr,+Columbus,+OH+43224/@40.0310793,-82.9955117,3a,15y,253.78h,104.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSmTGhTEG74ayOLR-R6x27g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x88388c0a2977aeb9:0x4ea2e22dac465885!8m2!3d40.0310412!4d-82.9955374

I've finally found a doghouse older than the 12" Eagle flatbacks in my area! This thing isn't even twelve inch.

[traffic light guy]

Here's another old doghouse:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+Main+St+%26+N+Cleveland+Ave,+Westerville,+OH+43081/@40.1247289,-82.9481386,3a,75y,265.02h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siRIE33LlXZFUaT0OY5CL7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8838f51d3271a841:0x21cefd51d7f37f16!8m2!3d40.1247667!4d-82.9481392