Resolving an Issue with I-5W

[bing101]

Ca-21 later became I-680 and CA-5 in Daly City/ South San Francisco area later became I-280.
Or is CA-5 supposed to be near the current CA-82?

CA 5 became CA 35, Skyline is right next to the I-280 alignment at the foot of the Santa Cruz Range and multiplexes the Interstate a couple miles now.  The northern part of 9 became other routers like 85 and 237.

CA-9 in Hayward became CA-238 south of an area now known as I-580/I-238 Interchange then known as US-50/I-5W Interchange in Hayward.

[bing101]

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article208619029.html


Also there was a video in the article mentioning that I-5 was originally planned for West Sacramento back in the 1960-1970's before I-5 was put in the downtown district of Sacramento to spark growth for the mall (Note the Downtown Mall in Sacramento is where the current Golden 1 Center is Located).


Also I-5 in Sacramento is 43 years old as of 2018.

[bing101]

4. The only evidence we have for the signage of I-5W is on points E -- along US 50 near Oakland, along future I-505.

Was the MacArthur Freeway portion of what is now 580 (not 505, which I don't think had any construction on it pre-1964) signed as I-5W in its entirety, or only that short segment in Oakland near Grand Avenue?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4698383839

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Not an official state map, but a 1963 Rand McNally snippet from the AARoads Interstate Guide, showing I-5W on future I-505 and on then-US 50 (now the I-580 corridor) near Altamont.  More interesting is I-5E being listed along County Route J8

Thats Interesting there's a CA-8 Signed near Stockton and this is before it became the eastern part of CA-4

[TheStranger]

Thats Interesting there's a CA-8 Signed near Stockton and this is before it became the eastern part of CA-4

That actually became post-1964 route 26.

[sparker]

Thats Interesting there's a CA-8 Signed near Stockton and this is before it became the eastern part of CA-4

That actually became post-1964 route 26.

CA 4, and SSR 4 before it, always has been that red line going through Farmington east of Stockton.  Pre-renumbering, SSR 8 was a relatively short connector from Stockton to Mokelumne Hill, with a multiplex north on SSR 49 into Jackson.   Pre WW II what is now CA 88 east of Jackson over Carson Pass to the NV state line was originally SSR 8; SSR 88 was commissioned as a more direct route from Stockton to Jackson; it replaced SSR 8 east of Jackson. 

[Max Rockatansky]

4. The only evidence we have for the signage of I-5W is on points E -- along US 50 near Oakland, along future I-505.

Was the MacArthur Freeway portion of what is now 580 (not 505, which I don't think had any construction on it pre-1964) signed as I-5W in its entirety, or only that short segment in Oakland near Grand Avenue?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4698383839

---

Not an official state map, but a 1963 Rand McNally snippet from the AARoads Interstate Guide, showing I-5W on future I-505 and on then-US 50 (now the I-580 corridor) near Altamont.  More interesting is I-5E being listed along County Route J8

Thats Interesting there's a CA-8 Signed near Stockton and this is before it became the eastern part of CA-4

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but in a lot of my threads I go over these maps and put links in that show the year-to-year differences.  CA 26 and CA 88 were some of the routes that I recently covered, both which were part of CA 8.  Go check out some of my threads from the last couple months I think you'll get a kick out some of the differences you see today in the highway system versus how things used to be.

[sparker]

^^^^^
Pre-1964 there were two diamond interchanges on LRN 90 (erstwhile I-5W and now I-505) built back in 1960, at the intersections of LRN 6 (CA 128) near Winters and LRN 50 (CA 16) at Madison.  The bridges (both on the crossing state highways) were among the last CA freeway bridges built with cast concrete "picket fence" railings rather than the later aluminum pipes held in place by stanchions.  The LRN 90 bypasses of both those towns were the only part of the eventual I-505 ROW to be built before the mid-'60s; the future freeway featured a 4-lane divided alignment extending for about a half-mile north and south of the junctions; the alignment originally curved back toward the original LRN 90 alignment to the west in both instances -- except for the south extension from Winters (CA 128); because of the proximity of Putah Creek (which drains Lake Berryessa) to the interchange, it was extended as a 2-lane expressway across a bridge on the new alignment before curving back to the original route.  By 1967 a 2-lane expressway on the new alignment connected the two freeway segments as well as extending south to I-80; north of CA 16 the route remained a 2-lane conventional road (except for the I-5 merge near Dunnigan).  At that time the route was signed as "Temporary I-505" until the full 32-mile freeway was completed.  Except for state highway maps and CSAA county/regional maps, the Winters and Madison interchanges were never shown on standard (Gousha/McNally) maps until the Interstate was fully completed -- although later Gousha maps showed the 2-lane route on the revised alignment bypassing the two towns to the east. 

Even though it's a major regional connector, the I-505 corridor has always seemed like the "red-headed stepchild" of CA's Interstate network -- not really acknowledged until a few years before it was completed.     

[TheStranger]

^^^^^
Pre-1964 there were two diamond interchanges on LRN 90 (erstwhile I-5W and now I-505) built back in 1960, at the intersections of LRN 6 (CA 128) near Winters and LRN 50 (CA 16) at Madison.  The bridges (both on the crossing state highways) were among the last CA freeway bridges built with cast concrete "picket fence" railings rather than the later aluminum pipes held in place by stanchions.  The LRN 90 bypasses of both those towns were the only part of the eventual I-505 ROW to be built before the mid-'60s; the future freeway featured a 4-lane divided alignment extending for about a half-mile north and south of the junctions; the alignment originally curved back toward the original LRN 90 alignment to the west in both instances -- except for the south extension from Winters (CA 128); because of the proximity of Putah Creek (which drains Lake Berryessa) to the interchange, it was extended as a 2-lane expressway across a bridge on the new alignment before curving back to the original route.  By 1967 a 2-lane expressway on the new alignment connected the two freeway segments as well as extending south to I-80; north of CA 16 the route remained a 2-lane conventional road (except for the I-5 merge near Dunnigan).  At that time the route was signed as "Temporary I-505" until the full 32-mile freeway was completed.  Except for state highway maps and CSAA county/regional maps, the Winters and Madison interchanges were never shown on standard (Gousha/McNally) maps until the Interstate was fully completed -- although later Gousha maps showed the 2-lane route on the revised alignment bypassing the two towns to the east. 

Even though it's a major regional connector, the I-505 corridor has always seemed like the "red-headed stepchild" of CA's Interstate network -- not really acknowledged until a few years before it was completed.     

Are there any vestiges of the 1960s era connectors (the curved roads that diverged from today's 505) for the original Madison and Winters bypasses?

SAMSUNG-SM-G930A

[NE2]

Are there any vestiges of the 1960s era connectors (the curved roads that diverged from today's 505) for the original Madison and Winters bypasses?

I don't see anything on a 1968 aerial photo. The only construction appears to be in the current ROW.

[sparker]

Are there any vestiges of the 1960s era connectors (the curved roads that diverged from today's 505) for the original Madison and Winters bypasses?

SAMSUNG-SM-G930A

If you peruse Google Earth, two traces of the connectors to the original LRN 90 remain; one is decidedly more prominent than the other.  One is south of Winters; there's a crease across a field where the original connector was sited; the coordinates are:
     38 degrees 30 minutes 25.02 seconds N, and
     121 degrees 57 minutes 17.90 seconds W.
You'll notice that this extends from the point where the present I-505 turns slightly SE.

The other, north of Madison, is actually still partially extant as a farm road; look at:
     38 degrees 42 minutes 29.14 seconds N, and
     121 degrees 57 minutes 30.76 seconds W.

When the 1960 interchange was built the old wooden LRN 90 bridge over Cache Creek was taken out of service and removed; traffic on LRN 90 was shunted to the new facility.  The other two connectors, which were the first to be replaced by the original section of 2-lane expressway on the present I-505 ROW between the two interchanges, are long gone; subsumed by various agricultural facilities. 

My first sojourn into the area was about the time the original overpasses/interchanges were built in '60; the freeway ROW between Winters and Madison had been grubbed and partially graded; the connecting 2-lane expressway was opened by mid-'64.  The interchange signage didn't indicate any route numbers for the nascent freeway until about '67; signage simply indicated control cities:  Madison/Redding for NB from the Winters/CA 128 interchange, and solely Redding for the NB ramp from CA 16.  Conversely, SB from CA 16 the ramp was signed Winters/San Francisco -- but, curiously, Vacaville/San Francisco on the SB ramp from CA 128 (the only time I've seen Vacaville as a control city on that corridor). 

[NE2]

If you peruse Google Earth, two traces of the connectors to the original LRN 90 remain; one is decidedly more prominent than the other.  One is south of Winters; there's a crease across a field where the original connector was sited; the coordinates are:
     38 degrees 30 minutes 25.02 seconds N, and
     121 degrees 57 minutes 17.90 seconds W.
You'll notice that this extends from the point where the present I-505 turns slightly SE.

This "crease" doesn't appear on any old aerial photos through 2014: http://www.historicaerials.com/location/38.506/-121.954/2014/17

The other, north of Madison, is actually still partially extant as a farm road; look at:
     38 degrees 42 minutes 29.14 seconds N, and
     121 degrees 57 minutes 30.76 seconds W.

That's a power line right-of-way (and was in 1954, before any realignment was built): http://www.historicaerials.com/location/38.708/-121.957/T1954/15

By the way, CH&PW included a map of it as I-5W: http://archive.org/stream/cavol3940liforniahigh6061wa00calirich#page/n677
The photo on the previous page looks south and shows that two lanes existed on the current ROW at least to south of Road 27 (exit 17).

[sparker]

^^^^^^
Looks like my timeline recollection as a kid was off a bit regarding just when the original 2 lanes of the (then) future I-5W replaced the former LRN 90 alignment between Winters and Madison.  I first visited the area on a family trip back in '60, when I noticed the grubbing of the ROW; my next visit was in '64, after the realignment had opened.  I didn't see any indication of the realignment on the official CA state highway map from '63, so I guessed it had opened after that was published.  By the CHPW article, it appears that the alignment was at least under construction by the end of '60, so the opening was well ahead of my "guesstimate" -- my bad!  In any case, that section between the cities was the only improved section of LRN 90 (and, after '64, the 505 alignment -- which didn't even get "temporary" signage until about 1967.  North of the Cache Creek crossing near Madison, the alignment did veer back to the original 2-lane route; when the freeway was being constructed in the '70's, the new alignment was somewhat east of there.  That was also the case south of Winters and Putah Creek; the alignment reverted back (more or less along the line delineated by the "crease" NE2 couldn't verify); the freeway construction was parallel and east of the original alignment, done that way to avoid Vacaville-area development along the original route.

[bugo]

Here's a Temp I-5 from 1980. What roads did it follow?

[sparker]

From what I can recall, the first Temporary I-5 iteration departed from the current I-5 N-S corridor in south Stockton at Charter Way (CA 4).  For a while after 1972 I-5 ended there, but was incrementally constructed farther and farther north over the next 9 years.  The temporary route used Charter Way (CA 4 east to Mariposa Road and CA 26 east from there) to CA 99, CA 99 north to (then) I-80 at the Oak Park interchange in Sacramento, then I-80 (now US 50) west to the completed I-5 alignment paralleling the east bank of the Sacramento River.  The map shown in the above post is inaccurate; there was no E-W freeway connection in Stockton until the early '90's, when the CA 4 crosstown connector was completed.  Charter Way, the temporary I-5 route, was a multilane city arterial out to the CA 4/26 junction and a 2-lane expressway from there to CA 99.  The above map is accurate in its depiction of the last unfinished segment of I-5 north of CA 12; that was the area where fill kept sinking into the delta wetlands; it took Caltrans and the contractors an extra year or so of simply piling on dry dirt and rocks before they had a stable platform on which to construct the highway itself, which opened to traffic in early 1981 (I was on it 5 days after it opened). 

IIRC, the temporary I-5 arrangement lasted until the final freeway segment was opened; at the ends (CA 4 on the south and I-80 to the north) the opened freeway segments were signed "Local Traffic Only"; neither Caltrans nor the counties wanted large amounts of traffic on the E-W connectors, which in that day were more often than not 2-lane rural roads.