Pennsylvania

[Roadsguy]

Re:PA 295 -> PA 297

It's already signed, I drove it this morning.  The BGS from 83 still says 295, but PennDOT needs to issue a separate contract for that.

Thanks, I had already made the change in Travel Mapping after the news release came out as it implied that this would be done quickly.

Wikipedia and OSM are now updated as well.

[ipeters61]

Does anybody know what these folded signs are for in the Bloomsburg/Central PA area? 



I saw them all the time as a kid, when visiting my grandparents in Bloomsburg, but never saw them open.

I found another folded sign on I-80 near Lock Haven, not sure if it's for the same purpose: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0464587,-77.451338,3a,75y,97.71h,68.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Bat0GD0at4XivX8VhuQqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[PAHighways]

They are detour routes.  I-70 has the same assemblies around Belle Vernon.

SM-G965U

[Roadsguy]

They are detour routes.  I-70 has the same assemblies around Belle Vernon.

Are there any pictures of the unfolded signs? I'm curious what they actually look like if they're that big and have a separate directional trailblazer. Unless they're just those same colored detour beginning signs that they decided to fold up there.

[briantroutman]

^ Are they not the same as these? Note the hinge in the center of the sign.

Of course if the legend inside lpeters61's folded sign was similar, that wouldn't explain the separate WEST plate mounted above. Perhaps the legend is equivalent but either with no cardinal direction posted next to the route designation. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I thought I recall seeing one of these colored arrow detour signs unfolded revealing an Interstate shield rather than the all-text approach used here for US 30.

[Roadsguy]

^ Are they not the same as these? Note the hinge in the center of the sign.

Of course if the legend inside lpeters61's folded sign was similar, that wouldn't explain the separate WEST plate mounted above. Perhaps the legend is equivalent but either with no cardinal direction posted next to the route designation. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I thought I recall seeing one of these colored arrow detour signs unfolded revealing an Interstate shield rather than the all-text approach used here for US 30.

This is what I meant by the colored detour beginning signs. There are numerous examples around me (like these). I've never seen one foldable, though I wouldn't exactly know if I did...

All the non-foldable examples that I've seen are text-only, though they don't always include the direction.

[thenetwork]

^ Are they not the same as these? Note the hinge in the center of the sign.

Of course if the legend inside lpeters61's folded sign was similar, that wouldn't explain the separate WEST plate mounted above. Perhaps the legend is equivalent but either with no cardinal direction posted next to the route designation. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I thought I recall seeing one of these colored arrow detour signs unfolded revealing an Interstate shield rather than the all-text approach used here for US 30.

This is what I meant by the colored detour beginning signs. There are numerous examples around me (like these). I've never seen one foldable, though I wouldn't exactly know if I did...

All the non-foldable examples that I've seen are text-only, though they don't always include the direction.

Must be a variant between PennDOT districts.  Up along I-90 in Erie, and I-80 around I-79 all the colored detour signs are on smaller un-foldable signs.

[Bitmapped]

^ Are they not the same as these? Note the hinge in the center of the sign.

Of course if the legend inside lpeters61's folded sign was similar, that wouldn't explain the separate WEST plate mounted above. Perhaps the legend is equivalent but either with no cardinal direction posted next to the route designation. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I thought I recall seeing one of these colored arrow detour signs unfolded revealing an Interstate shield rather than the all-text approach used here for US 30.

This is what I meant by the colored detour beginning signs. There are numerous examples around me (like these). I've never seen one foldable, though I wouldn't exactly know if I did...

All the non-foldable examples that I've seen are text-only, though they don't always include the direction.

Must be a variant between PennDOT districts.  Up along I-90 in Erie, and I-80 around I-79 all the colored detour signs are on smaller un-foldable signs.

The picture is of the initial sign for the detour route. The rest of the ones to follow the route are like 12"x24" with just color, detour, and arrow.

[briantroutman]

Must be a variant between PennDOT districts.  Up along I-90 in Erie, and I-80 around I-79 all the colored detour signs are on smaller un-foldable signs.

The picture is of the initial sign for the detour route. The rest of the ones to follow the route are like 12"x24" with just color, detour, and arrow.

Just to make sure there's not a misunderstanding: In addition to the folding kind of "begin detour"  sign I showed in the photo, there's also a non-folding variant of the same sign that Roadsguy showed in this example from Google Street View: https://goo.gl/maps/PgSSjwcqyc32

And then there's the small in-detour sign that's used along the route. Bitmapped, I assume you're talking about these signs, right?

thenetwork, is that small in-detour sign what you were referring to? Or were you referring to the non-folding type Roadsguy showed...or something else entirely?

[roadman65]

I see in Allentown (or Whitehall) the US 22 & PA 145 colverleaf was turned into a parclo making one ramp for PA 145 in both directions controlled by a signal on both sides. 

Before that I remember the sign for SB PA 145 (used an add on shield on top to save money) read both 7th Street and MacArthur Road together.  Does not MacArthur begin at US 22 and go only north?  Is not the arterial (PA 145 was extended into Allentown in 1988) south of US 22 7th Street?  So why was MacArthur signed on both ramps before the modification?

[briantroutman]

I used to live just off MacArthur Road in Whitehall and have vivid memories of driving the now-removed EB-to-NB hairpin loop ramp on my way home. Those interchange modifications were done several years ago...a quick search suggests they were made in 2012.

Yes, the MacArthur Road designation does extend slightly south of the interchange. I believe the dividing line is the Allentown city line/Sumner Avenue–which is about half a mile south of the interchange.

So the previous signage was more technically accurate, but that accuracy was at the expense of some arguably unnecessary confusion. The name MacArthur Road is closely associated with the expanse of suburban commercial development along that road, the vast majority of which is north of the interchange. Likewise, the 7th Street name is closely associated with that street's urban commercial district as well as its role as the primary gateway into Allentown from the north.

By simplifying the signage to list solely MacArthur Road northbound and 7th Street southbound, the motorist's decision is made simpler and clearer: city-bound vs. suburb-bound.

[Roadsguy]

At some point recently, PennDOT released the 2017 traffic counts. They seem a bit... iffy in some places. For example, this seems a bit impossible:



They seem to be based on what's currently in the system, including the new distinct SR 0095 segments for the I-95/Turnpike flyovers. The traffic data on them is just a copy of the traffic on I-95 south of the interchange, and nothing on the Turnpike east of the interchange has been updated yet (traffic counts, SR 7276 designation, or traffic route 276), so it's still labeled I-276.

[ixnay]

At some point recently, PennDOT released the 2017 traffic counts. They seem a bit... iffy in some places. For example, this seems a bit impossible:



They seem to be based on what's currently in the system, including the new distinct SR 0095 segments for the I-95/Turnpike flyovers. The traffic data on them is just a copy of the traffic on I-95 south of the interchange, and nothing on the Turnpike east of the interchange has been updated yet (traffic counts, SR 7276 designation, or traffic route 276), so it's still labeled I-276.

You have a link?

ixnay

[briantroutman]

^ PennDOT's traffic volume maps are posted on this page: https://www.penndot.gov/ProjectAndPrograms/Planning/Maps/Pages/Traffic-Volume.aspx

New maps simply supersede the old ones as they're released.

As to the I-95/PA Turnpike interchange, I think we're just seeing old data auto populated onto a newer map. This is supposed to be 2017 data, and obviously the flyovers weren't open to traffic in any part of that year.

[jeffandnicole]

At some point recently, PennDOT released the 2017 traffic counts. They seem a bit... iffy in some places. For example, this seems a bit impossible:



They seem to be based on what's currently in the system, including the new distinct SR 0095 segments for the I-95/Turnpike flyovers. The traffic data on them is just a copy of the traffic on I-95 south of the interchange, and nothing on the Turnpike east of the interchange has been updated yet (traffic counts, SR 7276 designation, or traffic route 276), so it's still labeled I-276.

You have a link?

ixnay

^ PennDOT’s traffic volume maps are posted on this page: https://www.penndot.gov/ProjectAndPrograms/Planning/Maps/Pages/Traffic-Volume.aspx

New maps simply supersede the old ones as they’re released.

As to the I-95/PA Turnpike interchange, I think we’re just seeing old data auto populated onto a newer map. This is supposed to be 2017 data, and obviously the flyovers weren’t open to traffic in any part of that year.

If I get what Roadsguy is referring to: PA 309 has a traffic count of 47,000 vehicles south of PA 2017.  Just north of that is a partial interchange from and to the south.  North of that, traffic counts jump to 71,000 vehicles, which is an impossible feat because it's impossible for traffic to get on or exit from that point before reaching the point south of the interchange.

[Roadsguy]

^ PennDOT's traffic volume maps are posted on this page: https://www.penndot.gov/ProjectAndPrograms/Planning/Maps/Pages/Traffic-Volume.aspx

New maps simply supersede the old ones as they're released.

As to the I-95/PA Turnpike interchange, I think we're just seeing old data auto populated onto a newer map. This is supposed to be 2017 data, and obviously the flyovers weren't open to traffic in any part of that year.

If I get what Roadsguy is referring to: PA 309 has a traffic count of 47,000 vehicles south of PA 2017.  Just north of that is a partial interchange from and to the south.  North of that, traffic counts jump to 71,000 vehicles, which is an impossible feat because it's impossible for traffic to get on or exit from that point before reaching the point south of the interchange.

Yup, that's what I meant about it being a bit iffy. I know the actual data predates the I-95/Turnpike connection, so obviously none of that is updated. I wonder if they'll sort out the segments of the Turnpike so they can measure that accurately between the new interchange and US 13 next year. (Does PennDOT measure traffic on the Turnpike or do they get that data from the PTC for their system?)

[CentralPAGal]

North York Widening

Wait what? How'd I miss that?

The concepts show the six lanes continuing a bit north of PA 181, so it seems it will make it almost to Exit 24 (though the southern end doesn't have an end transition either...). It would be extremely stupid not to widen it through Exit 24.

The article said six lanes from 24 to 28, so it will at least be mainline through the new Exit 26.

Just found this (http://www.ycpc.org/images/pdfs/tranportation/I-83%20Master%20Plan.pdf) today. The Master Plan (not to be confused with the Harrisburg area Master Plan) for I-83 north of York. It appears that it will tie directly into the North York project, and that by 2047, in theory, there should be six lanes along I-83 from north of PA 297/exit 28 all the way down to Mt Rose/exit 18. It includes complete reconstruction of present interchanges at PA 238 and PA 297. Hope it happens.

Maybe then they can address exits 8 (PA 216) and 16 (PA 74), and from north of exit 32 (PA 382) up to exit 36 (PA 262).

[74/171FAN]

The intersection of I-83 BL (George St) at Rathton Rd and Country Club Dr will be under construction starting January 14th.

[ixnay]

How problematic are volumes on I-81 north of, say, the junction with I-78, especially on weekends?  Not just in PA but all the way up to at least Syracuse?

The thread about the tolling of 81 in VA mentioned high weekend volumes on that road from TN on up to Harrisburg.

ixnay

[ipeters61]

How problematic are volumes on I-81 north of, say, the junction with I-78, especially on weekends?  Not just in PA but all the way up to at least Syracuse?

The thread about the tolling of 81 in VA mentioned high weekend volumes on that road from TN on up to Harrisburg.

ixnay

I've heard that in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area it can get pretty clogged.

[ARMOURERERIC]

There was supposedly a study to build high speed interchanges at both 81/476 junctions to encourage more through traffic off of 81 north of Moosic.  I never heard of any results.

[PAHighways]

There was supposedly a study to build high speed interchanges at both 81/476 junctions to encourage more through traffic off of 81 north of Moosic.  I never heard of any results.

It is still in the works:  https://www.patpconstruction.com/scrantonbeltway/

SM-G965U

[seicer]

How would the Clarks Summit interchange have been configured if the PA Turnpike Extension followed I-81 as originally intended? There are remnants of the mainline that's visible but nothing for the ramps.

[Roadsguy]

How problematic are volumes on I-81 north of, say, the junction with I-78, especially on weekends?  Not just in PA but all the way up to at least Syracuse?

The thread about the tolling of 81 in VA mentioned high weekend volumes on that road from TN on up to Harrisburg.

ixnay

I don't think there are any issues between I-78 and at least I-80. I'm not sure whether any Scranton—Wilkes-Barre area widening should go as far down as I-80 or just to PA 29 or 309.

[Alps]

How would the Clarks Summit interchange have been configured if the PA Turnpike Extension followed I-81 as originally intended? There are remnants of the mainline that's visible but nothing for the ramps.

Regular trumpet.