In my neck of the woods, there are several highway corridors that mirror old railroad routes, some of which don't even exist anymore. From what historical maps I can attain, these highways don't appear to have a stage road or turnpike predecessor. I find it fascinating how towns and cities emerged from the railroads.
NC 186, a small portion of VA 35 through Boykins, and General Thomas Hwy (CR 671) were built over the old Seaboard and Roanoke Railroad. The CSX freight trains still run to this day. The town of Seaboard was established as a railroad company town.
US 158 from Henderson to NC 903 in Halifax County was built over the Raleigh and Gaston Railroad (abandoned in the mid 80s). Many of the communities along the route like Manson and Macon were founded as train depots. There's not too many vestiges of the old railroad left here. Up until a handful of years ago, a driveway off 158 in Summit still had a railroad crossing signal standing.
The railroads leaving southward from Petersburg were supplanted twice - first by U.S. highways, then by Interstate highways. US 1 and later I-85 were built over the SAL railroad line from Petersburg to Henderson. US 301 and later I-95 were built over the Petersburg and Roanoke Railroad to Weldon. Alberta, McKenney, Jarratt, Stony Creek and Carson were all train depots.
Don't forget US 460 practically running alongside the Norfolk Southern (formerly Norfolk & Western) tracks from Windsor up to Petersburg. It was General Mahone and his wife that named the towns between Suffolk and Petersburg.
Many highways in the Midwest and the West were built next to railroads. Many of these railroads are still in operation. Nothing like seeing a 150 car train alongside I-40 in New Mexico or Arizona.
NY 242 from Ellicottville to Franklinville is a fairly interesting one, partly for this crossing: https://goo.gl/maps/2jCcLvPYFch7bjHb6 (https://goo.gl/maps/2jCcLvPYFch7bjHb6)
Well, much of US-66, and its successor I-55, parallel a railroad, I don't know which one, in Illinois.
Highways built parallel to railroads are usually an original highway routing. The right of way next to the tracks were usually easier to follow and cheaper to acquire back in the day.
CA 99 in the Central Valley is mostly right next to the Union Pacific. In fact, there is not an infrequent number of wrecks that end up on the railroad grade given it is so close in places.
I-80 & US 30 parallels the Union Pacific line (and the Platt River) in Central Nebraska.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 03, 2023, 09:06:21 AM
Highways built parallel to railroads are usually an original highway routing. The right of way next to the tracks were usually easier to follow and cheaper to acquire back in the day.
And a lot of the original right of way, at least in Montana, was local wagon roads used by farmers, ranchers, etc. to get their goods to the railroad depots. That's why some original highway routings would bounce back and forth across the railroad.
Quote from: FrCorySticha on February 03, 2023, 12:50:25 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 03, 2023, 09:06:21 AM
Highways built parallel to railroads are usually an original highway routing. The right of way next to the tracks were usually easier to follow and cheaper to acquire back in the day.
And a lot of the original right of way, at least in Montana, was local wagon roads used by farmers, ranchers, etc. to get their goods to the railroad depots. That's why some original highway routings would bounce back and forth across the railroad.
With CA 99 in the Central Valley a lot of the initial alignments which were part of US 99 were built as frontage roads of the Southern Pacific during the 1870s. The rail frontages in the Central Valley quickly became more popular than the existing 1850s era Stockton-Los Angeles Road in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
US 50 between Athens, OH and Guysville, OH was rebuilt as an improved 2-lane road around 1960. Most of the road was constructed next to the tracks for the B&O Parkersburg Subdivision, which was subsequently abandoned in the 1980s. In the 1990s, ODOT came back and used most of the ROW for a dualized set of eastbound lanes.
US 10 in Minnesota pretty much from Anoka to Moorhead has a railroad within view, with the exception of the not-original bypasses of cities like Little Falls.
The Open Railway Map (https://www.openrailwaymap.org/) might offer a good overview of such routes:
(https://i.imgur.com/wX5lbMu.png)
Parts of US 40 northeast of Baltimore run next to Amtrak's Northeast Corridor and a CSX freight line
Old US66 parallels the old Chicago & Alton route (Now Canadian National north of Joliet and Union Pacific south of Joliet) thru most of the state of Illinois. The original US 66 alignments hug the railroad alignment the most, with the newer re-routes moving farther and farther away.
Why are people seeming to make this out to be some kind of surprising coincidence?
When people wanted to move from one place to another, tracks were blazed through the wilderness. If there was enough traffic, roads were put in. When people wanted to move goods, railroads went in* - often following or near to the pathways and roads that were already there, because they were linking up the same centers of population. This is especially true when the freeways came to be, because much of the country was fully settled before they were built. Granted, in some places the railroad came first. For example, there was a railroad linking eastern and western Canada across the north shore of Lake Superior long before the road was built. And as railroads were built across the Plains, communities often sprung up near the railroad and roads to the community came along as well.
* - The UK, perhaps more than any other country, has an extensive system of canals that pre-dated the railroads. There you will find both rail lines and highways paralleling the path of the canals - because of the need for people and goods to move from one place to the other.
Quote from: GaryV on February 03, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
Why are people seeming to make this out to be some kind of surprising coincidence?
I think it's a trend on these forums that people like to use observations they see in road networks, even obvious ones, and use them as a start for discussion. Don't overthink it too much.
Quote from: MoiraPrime on February 03, 2023, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 03, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
Why are people seeming to make this out to be some kind of surprising coincidence?
I think it's a trend on these forums that people like to use observations they see in road networks, even obvious ones, and use them as a start for discussion. Don't overthink it too much.
It is rarer when a modern highway is constructed where no mode of transportation existed prior.
I-95 in South Florida between West Palm Beach and Boca Raton
In Oregon, much of Highway 30 (most of I-84, from Portland to north of Tide Creek, and again from Clatskanie to Wauna) parallels active railroads, while Highway 101 from Wheeler to Bay City parallels the former Port of Tillamook Railway.
From its northern starting point until it reaches Hawthorne, the Saw Mill River Parkway in NY is roughly parallel to the Metro North Railroad's Harlem Line. In fact, if you take the MNR along this route (goes into NYC), you'll see cars out the window not too far away, going down the Saw Mill side-by-side to the train. Sometimes the speeds even match up!
Quote from: MoiraPrime on February 03, 2023, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 03, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
Why are people seeming to make this out to be some kind of surprising coincidence?
I think it's a trend on these forums that people like to use observations they see in road networks, even obvious ones, and use them as a start for discussion. Don't overthink it too much.
To clarify the purpose of this thread so I may meet your high standards of what constitutes appropriate road enthusiast discussion, this thread is for the discussion of highways born from the railroad and the cities/towns that owe their existence to the railroad. It may seem obvious to westerners where the infrastructure is largely rooted in the railroads. On the east coast, however, the lands had been settled for several generations before the coming of the railroad. Some highways, like the Historic Albemarle Trail in North Carolina, date back to colonial times. The I-85 route from Petersburg to NC was built over an old Native trading path. Then there's I-40 between I-95 and Faison, a segment of a major interstate, built in the 1980s and not following any preexisting route. Different highways have different histories.
The railroads were "highway" before roads ever were, but they weren't the first. Rivers were. You see lots of railroads that follow rivers, because rivers often cut canyons that have easy grades. Then road highways (e.g., US routes) are built along railroads. Then interstates are build over or fairly near to those routes. See: Columbia River Gorge.
An opposite to this is that many new light rail networks are built along highways.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 05, 2023, 01:18:09 AM
An opposite to this is that many new light rail networks are built along highways.
Even when i was a small child, i wondered why light rail or regional passenger service rail lines were not built in the medians/next to freeways. The grading is good, high traffic volumes, etc.
I have even come up with ways of transporting cars via rail along interstate corridors. I just feel like there is so much more potential for interstate/freeway ROWs.
Quote from: fillup420 on February 05, 2023, 10:06:54 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 05, 2023, 01:18:09 AM
An opposite to this is that many new light rail networks are built along highways.
Even when i was a small child, i wondered why light rail or regional passenger service rail lines were not built in the medians/next to freeways. The grading is good, high traffic volumes, etc.
I have even come up with ways of transporting cars via rail along interstate corridors. I just feel like there is so much more potential for interstate/freeway ROWs.
I wondered that when I first saw the alternatives for the HSR versus what they ultimately selected I the Central Valley.
Pretty much all of Mississippi's 2DIs (except I-69) were built parallel to railroads.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 03, 2023, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: MoiraPrime on February 03, 2023, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 03, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
Why are people seeming to make this out to be some kind of surprising coincidence?
I think it's a trend on these forums that people like to use observations they see in road networks, even obvious ones, and use them as a start for discussion. Don't overthink it too much.
It is rarer when a modern highway is constructed where no mode of transportation existed prior.
Such as I-80 in Pennsylvania for the most part. And, of course, I-70 through the San Rafael Swell.
Quote from: fillup420 on February 05, 2023, 10:06:54 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 05, 2023, 01:18:09 AM
An opposite to this is that many new light rail networks are built along highways.
Even when i was a small child, i wondered why light rail or regional passenger service rail lines were not built in the medians/next to freeways. The grading is good, high traffic volumes, etc.
I have even come up with ways of transporting cars via rail along interstate corridors. I just feel like there is so much more potential for interstate/freeway ROWs.
1) They're expensive
2) They're expensive
3) They're expensive
4) Buildings roadways, especially today, often is done by connecting the new road into another existing road. The new road may have the ability to hold a rail line but how does the rail line connect into another part of the system to get people where they may want to go? Rail lines also need lower grade changes than highway, so there's an impact on bridges. Parking and train stations take up considerable room. And rail lines make it tough to expand the highway in the future if warranted.
5) They're expensive.
Quote from: amroad17 on February 05, 2023, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 03, 2023, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: MoiraPrime on February 03, 2023, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 03, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
Why are people seeming to make this out to be some kind of surprising coincidence?
I think it's a trend on these forums that people like to use observations they see in road networks, even obvious ones, and use them as a start for discussion. Don't overthink it too much.
It is rarer when a modern highway is constructed where no mode of transportation existed prior.
Such as I-80 in Pennsylvania for the most part. And, of course, I-70 through the San Rafael Swell.
CA 1 through Big Sur is the most notable by me. I-5 and the West Side Freeway largely doesn't overlap any previous modern corridors or at least back to El Camino Viejo.
I noticed near Shasta Lake in CA, that I-5 has a Union Pacific rail line inside the two carriageways of the freeway. Though not visible by sight as the median is very wide with hills and built like Monteagle Grade in TN on I-24, it's there. In fact the rail line has several tunnels of which two of them pass under SB I-5 to get in the middle.
https://goo.gl/maps/CT5sKvREryBUw3Wr8
Edit: One Tunnel and the rail line are visible from SB I-5 SB at the south end of the split.
https://goo.gl/maps/e6QNNWDV8jQQoVN57
Plus the rail line is visible on the NB side of the freeway.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2023, 02:46:59 PM
I noticed near Shasta Lake in CA, that I-5 has a Union Pacific rail line inside the two carriageways of the freeway. Though not visible by sight as the median is very wide with hills and built like Monteagle Grade in TN on I-24, it's there. In fact the rail line has several tunnels of which two of them pass under SB I-5 to get in the middle.
And CSX's former Atlantic Coast Line mainline is right down the middle of what we railroaders call the "Acca Freeway" in Richmond, Virginia. On the north end, The Acca is I-195 and more formally known as the Beltine Expressway. On the south end, The Acca is Toll VA-76 and known as the Powhite Parkway. When I lived there, the pronunciation of Powhite Creek and Powhite Parkway was changed to "Pow-height" for obvious reasons.
Fun fact: When the Powhite Parkway Bridge was being widened back in 1988 with a newly constructed toll booth (also widened), locals saluted the previous governor when depositing 50 cents in the coin basket. They said "Chuck" when throwing the money, and "Robb" when the signal cleared at the gate rose. To this day, I still say the same thing at every toll booth I encounter (to the dismay of my other passengers).
Quote from: Rick Powell on February 03, 2023, 03:58:32 PM
Old US66 parallels the old Chicago & Alton route (Now Canadian National north of Joliet and Union Pacific south of Joliet) thru most of the state of Illinois. The original US 66 alignments hug the railroad alignment the most, with the newer re-routes moving farther and farther away.
South of Springfield, later alignment of US 66 was closer to what is now Norfolk Southern from a little north of Litchfield to around Staunton. Between Litchfield and Springfield US 66 was somewhat close to an Illinois Central Line, much of which is now abandoned.
* I-44 in Missouri roughly parallels a BNSF line for much of the way between St. Louis and Springfield, with a nice stretch in St. Louis County along the tracks.
* I-70 in Missouri roughly parallels a Norfolk Southern line from about MO 19 to around MO 370. MO 370 then roughly parallels the same line, with the closest section being the stretch that includes the Missouri River crossing.
* Old US 36 parallels what is now a Norfolk Southern line for a bit between Springfield and Decatur. There was also a section where US 36 also had an Illinois Terminal line on the south side, of which only a small portion still exists. (https://goo.gl/maps/5QABRrXM4ZUuS7v86)
* US 67 roughly parallels a Kansas City Southern line between Godfrey and Manchester.
* US 45 parallels a Canadian National line between Kankakee and Effingham. North of Kankakee IL 50 generally parallels the CN line to about Monee. South of Effingham IL 37 parallels the line to a little north of Salem.
* South of Salem IL 37 roughly parallels a Union Pacific line to West Vienna.