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I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)

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vdeane:

--- Quote from: Rothman on December 08, 2023, 06:18:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: kalvado on December 08, 2023, 12:09:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rothman on December 08, 2023, 11:44:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: kalvado on December 08, 2023, 09:10:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: jakeroot on December 08, 2023, 02:20:25 AM ---
--- Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 06, 2023, 10:57:07 PM ---It would be nice though if they would build it with a future bullet train in mind. Not track work or anything just designed where it can be added in the future if one ever happens.

--- End quote ---

Has this been talked about in any capacity?

All my exploring in Japan, I'm not sure I've ever seen a Shinkansen share any right of way with an expressway. The two need completely different levels of engineering, it just doesn't make sense for them to come near each other except when physically necessary, which seems to be almost never.

--- End quote ---
Keep in mind, getting new ROW seems impossible in US.

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Too general a statement.  DOTs and even local entities acquire ROW all the time.

That said, whether an entity has either or both 1) access to eminent domain procedures and 2) the resources to purchase the ROW are the main factors, given the significant expense.

--- End quote ---
Genuine question - do you have a story of actually building a new road/rail on a new ROW corridor in NY?
(sorry for taking this too far out of northwest, mods - please  feel free to move/separate as you see fit)
I am not thinking about a new road in a new development or cutting someone's lawn by 2 feet for a smoother curve or a new ramp, but a really new corridor?
I assume Round lake bypass near me is a relatively recent, but pretty short one...

I've seen a proposed corridor map for high speed rail from Albany to Buffalo, but my impression it was presented with a tongue in a cheek.

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Yep, Round Lake Bypass is the most recent upstate example.

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Don't forget I-781...

Or I-99 and the Parksville Bypass (future I-86).

Bruce:

--- Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 08, 2023, 04:30:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: Bruce on December 08, 2023, 02:31:35 AM ---
--- Quote from: jakeroot on December 08, 2023, 02:20:25 AM ---
--- Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 06, 2023, 10:57:07 PM ---It would be nice though if they would build it with a future bullet train in mind. Not track work or anything just designed where it can be added in the future if one ever happens.

--- End quote ---

Has this been talked about in any capacity?

All my exploring in Japan, I'm not sure I've ever seen a Shinkansen share any right of way with an expressway. The two need completely different levels of engineering, it just doesn't make sense for them to come near each other except when physically necessary, which seems to be almost never.

--- End quote ---

This bridge is the wrong location for HSR and there's definitely not enough available funding to cover plans to accommodate it. The focus would be on building a replacement for the downstream BNSF crossing or finding a different route into Portland given the constraints.

--- End quote ---
Not sure about the routing of the HSR just thought about it because ODOT did that in Tulsa with the I-244 bridge. It allows for a pair of future HSR tracks to be built in the future. I’m not sure about Japan but we aren’t built anything like they are so I wouldn’t use them as a good comparison though I would like to have their trains here.

--- End quote ---

WSDOT has experience building bridges with future rail use in mind, namely the Homer M. Hadley Floating Bridge for I-90 westbound and the express lanes until they were turned over to Sound Transit for light rail use. That bridge's design, all the way back to the 1960s, always intended for the center lanes to be switched over to rapid transit when the time was right. In 2025, we'll be able to ride trains on a floating bridge for the first time in U.S. history, assuming the plinth issue is sorted out.

The new SR 520 Evergreen Point Floating Bridge is also theoretically designed with future light rail expansion in mind, but would require extra pontoons and other work that would shut down the bridge for long stretches of time. Since the corridor has far less utility than I-90, it was not chosen.

HSR is a different beast from light rail or rapid transit/metro, though. It needs far smoother grades and curves and its stations need to be hubs in their own right, requiring more room. Downtown Vancouver probably doesn't want to be sliced up by a HSR vidauct.

Bruce:
$600 million federal grant for the project, which covers about 10% of the expected cost: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/feds-pledge-600m-for-new-i-5-bridge-linking-washington-and-oregon/

Probably time to rename this thread since the program is just called the "Interstate Bridge Replacement Program".

Bruce:
New cost estimate expected this year, and will be larger than the current $5 billion to $7.5 billion range. https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/03/oregon-washington-transportation-bridge-interstate-five-i5-replacement-project/

At this point, WSDOT and ODOT should consider dividing the project up into two pieces: the bridge replacement and the approach widening/rebuilds. Let everyone argue about the latter (which is the major sticking point) while the most critical part (rebuilding the bridge before it crumbles in an earthquake) is done with little fuss. Light rail would be a given now that it's non-controversial with the sane people on both sides of the river.

Plutonic Panda:
No what they need to do is get off their asses and pass a tax to get this thing fully funded and tell people if you don’t pass this tax enjoy using the 205 from now on. This is beyond ridiculous.

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