Evansville Historically Neglected?

Started by mspanner442, July 25, 2016, 03:24:32 PM

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silverback1065

It also makes absolutely no sense that the state never made at least a state highway go straight to Evansville from Indy.  Why didn't 37 go straight to Evansville as a divided highway? 


Avalanchez71

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 08, 2016, 02:03:37 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 07, 2016, 07:01:23 PM
I've always wondered why there wasn't a US highway from e-ville to Indy, it's even weirder that there isn't one from Indy to Ft. Wayne, I never noticed that one. I also don't get the hate toward E-ville from the rest of the state.

I am not sure there is any "hate" towards Evansville from the rest of the state, probably more of a case of indifference...at least that is what I typically get when I am in other parts of Indiana. There are a few towns in the state that always get a negative response when they are brought up..I don't think that is the case with Evansville. The indifference does seem to be a two way street as this area seems more aligned with Louisville, St. Louis and even Nashville than Indy. Probably a lot to do with transportation. I think that may change on both sides once 69 gets finished.

Nasville, TN is closer to Evansville, IN than is Indianapolis.  Since Nashville is a tourist town and also a trasportation and distribution center it would make sense that their is more of alignment of Evansville to Nashville.

Life in Paradise

Once I-69 is complete between Evansville and Indianapolis, it will only take about 2.5 hours to get from one to the other.  Nashville and Evansville are about 2.5 hours apart also.  Louisville, is less than 2 hours via I-64.

silverback1065

Quote from: coatimundi on August 07, 2016, 01:02:32 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
Did Gary secretly join Illinois?

Might as well. Northwestern Indiana seems to feel perpetually neglected by Indianapolis. The Central Time folks just don't have much of a central focus. I don't blame them.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with.

Somewhere in this forum, someone posted the "History of the Interstate System in Indiana," produced by Purdue in the 70's. I found it enthralling, especially with its depiction of the history of I-64. But it talks about this fight between Vincennes and Evansville, and it was not just simply a matter of size or some wealthy corporate weight-swinging. There was a period where I-64 was shown on commercial maps as following US 50, so it was certainly a strong consideration.
I mean, maybe you guys know that publication really well, but, if not, it's definitely worth a couple of hours of reading if you're interested in how routings were determined.
I mean, when I lived in Bloomington, I preferred US 50 as a route to St. Louis over 46 to 70. It was more interesting and, after 69 was completed to US 231, it took about the same amount of time, even with the congested jog in Lebanon.

Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
as well as making it harder to get the Champaign-Urbana.

And I think that's one of the big reasons I-57 exists. There's always been a tremendous amount of vehicle traffic between Chicagoland and Chambana. Those rich parents from the suburbs don't want to have to roll through Rantoul or Gilman on surface streets.

that link was absolute gold!  i've been looking for history books talking about the reason why the interstate are they way they are now.

theline

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 11, 2016, 02:35:29 PM
Quote from: coatimundi on August 07, 2016, 01:02:32 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
Did Gary secretly join Illinois?

Might as well. Northwestern Indiana seems to feel perpetually neglected by Indianapolis. The Central Time folks just don't have much of a central focus. I don't blame them.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with.

Somewhere in this forum, someone posted the "History of the Interstate System in Indiana," produced by Purdue in the 70's. I found it enthralling, especially with its depiction of the history of I-64. But it talks about this fight between Vincennes and Evansville, and it was not just simply a matter of size or some wealthy corporate weight-swinging. There was a period where I-64 was shown on commercial maps as following US 50, so it was certainly a strong consideration.
I mean, maybe you guys know that publication really well, but, if not, it's definitely worth a couple of hours of reading if you're interested in how routings were determined.
I mean, when I lived in Bloomington, I preferred US 50 as a route to St. Louis over 46 to 70. It was more interesting and, after 69 was completed to US 231, it took about the same amount of time, even with the congested jog in Lebanon.

Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
as well as making it harder to get the Champaign-Urbana.

And I think that's one of the big reasons I-57 exists. There's always been a tremendous amount of vehicle traffic between Chicagoland and Chambana. Those rich parents from the suburbs don't want to have to roll through Rantoul or Gilman on surface streets.

that link was absolute gold!  i've been looking for history books talking about the reason why the interstate are they way they are now.

:thumbsup: I've already read that dissertation, and it's fascinating to learn a lot of the reasons why the interstates were routed where they were, why exits and overpasses were built or not built, and even the reasoning for the order in which they were built. It was especially interesting for someone who lives in Indiana, but the ideas apply anywhere.

westerninterloper

Evansville has been relatively disconnected from the rest of Indiana since the Civil War. It is the only Ohio River city in Indiana, culturally more connected to Kentucky, Little Egypt and St. Louis than Chicago, Cincinnati, or Indianapolis. They eat brain sandwiches, for god's sake! With only US 41 as the major auto route of the city for about 2/3 or the 20th Century, and no mainline railroads to speak of, the Pocket City has long been off the beaten path, except the odd route between Nashville and Chicago.

Culturally, it's an interesting mix of upper South, German Catholic, Irish, and African-American, with no major recent immigrant groups to speak of. It's conservative, blue Dog Democrat at best, and like Fort Wayne and Indianapolis, it lacks a university proportionate with its size. It has several strengths - retail, manufacturing, but the city is one of those small invisible metros that does fine but wont be a destination outside of its region.

It's not hated or despised or anything by other Hoosiers; this part of the state sees itself as quintessentially Hoosier, with high school basketball , and Indiana University always a destination for local graduates. It's coal, basketball, and church country; Evansville strikes me as a big town inside a constellation of small cities like can oddly feel more urban than Evansville - Vincennes, Jasper, Owensboro, Washington, etc, perhaps because Evansville is the defacto city for NW Kentucky.
Nostalgia: Indiana's State Religion

sparker

It's always been interesting to me that within the scope of the planning convolutions of I-24 northwest of Nashville, an option wasn't forwarded that would have (a) routed I-64 along US 460 through Evansville and (b) simply taken the I-24 route up US 41A/41 out of Nashville all the way up to Evansville.  This would have provided a reasonably simple route between St. Louis and Nashville (albeit one that might have warranted an odd rather than even number) and would have been able to take advantage of the then-nascent KY expressway system, which IIRC was in the planning stages about the same time the initial Interstate network was being finalized.  Paducah would have whined a bit, but otherwise such a plan would likely have worked out (and avoided a few of the issues endemic to the region that were partially addressed by the rerouting of I-64 in the early '60's). 

silverback1065

Quote from: sparker on October 17, 2017, 04:48:08 PM
It's always been interesting to me that within the scope of the planning convolutions of I-24 northwest of Nashville, an option wasn't forwarded that would have (a) routed I-64 along US 460 through Evansville and (b) simply taken the I-24 route up US 41A/41 out of Nashville all the way up to Evansville.  This would have provided a reasonably simple route between St. Louis and Nashville (albeit one that might have warranted an odd rather than even number) and would have been able to take advantage of the then-nascent KY expressway system, which IIRC was in the planning stages about the same time the initial Interstate network was being finalized.  Paducah would have whined a bit, but otherwise such a plan would likely have worked out (and avoided a few of the issues endemic to the region that were partially addressed by the rerouting of I-64 in the early '60's).

there was a fight over where to put 64, vincennes for some reason thought they should get it over evansville.  they ended up putting it where it is now.  i wish they put it along the lloyd through town.  or at least keep us 460 and end it at 41.  I've never gotten had a good answer to the question of "Why wasn't there ever a highway connection between Indy and Eville?" 

Revive 755

Quote from: sparker on October 17, 2017, 04:48:08 PM
It's always been interesting to me that within the scope of the planning convolutions of I-24 northwest of Nashville, an option wasn't forwarded that would have (a) routed I-64 along US 460 through Evansville and (b) simply taken the I-24 route up US 41A/41 out of Nashville all the way up to Evansville.  This would have provided a reasonably simple route between St. Louis and Nashville (albeit one that might have warranted an odd rather than even number) and would have been able to take advantage of the then-nascent KY expressway system, which IIRC was in the planning stages about the same time the initial Interstate network was being finalized.

I thought I read somewhere that Evansville did try to get I-24 routed their way, but it was denied for some really ridiculous reason?

Life in Paradise

I remember reading in the local newspaper at sometime, perhaps in the early 70's that there were several options reviewed for what became I-164 (now labeled I-69) around Evansville.  One of those was coming in from the NW and joining the then four lane "Diamond Avenue Expressway" into town.  I can't remember for sure if they were going to loop through town or what, but that was cut down because of the cost.  The next option was to come down the current roadbed and then shoot down the "Lloyd Expressway" (IN-66) and then go south on US 41.  This was also shot down due to the cost since the Lloyd Expressway would have to be traffic lightless for a couple of miles, and US 41 would have to be made an urban expressway and raised up.  It was just cheaper to go around all the subdivisions and meet back with US 41.

SW Indiana has been ignored for quite awhile, but I would have to say it has been given much more attention in the past few decades.  As Indiana goes, SW Indiana is just not as highly populated as other parts of the state, and with our hills and such, it's more expensive to build roads compared to the flat north.

silverback1065

I thought the major at the time shot down the idea of having us 41 become an interstate.  does anyone have any cool old maps of these proposed highways?

Captain Jack

Going through the Courier and Press archives on the EVPL site, there was a serious push to get I-24 routed along US 41 from Nashville to Evansville. This heated up considerably when the southern route for I-64 was selected.

Indiana was pushing hard, and it appears it would have happened had it not been for one man, Henry Ward. Ward was a political heavyweight in Kentucky, and was a Paducah native. During this time he also was the State Highway Commissioner. He swung the route to Paducah, and threw Evansville-Henderson a bone in the Pennyrile Parkway. In the article announcing the decision in 1961, Ward was quoted with the promise that US 41 would be replaced with a modern, 4-lane highway in the very near future.  He appears to have been true to his word, as the Pennyrile went from the drawing board to completion in under a 5 year period. A time-frame unheard of today.

An interesting side note from Wards obituary. He was credited with routing I-65 through downtown Louisville and later referred to that as a mistake.

silverback1065

Quote from: Captain Jack on October 20, 2017, 12:43:20 AM
Going through the Courier and Press archives on the EVPL site, there was a serious push to get I-24 routed along US 41 from Nashville to Evansville. This heated up considerably when the southern route for I-64 was selected.

Indiana was pushing hard, and it appears it would have happened had it not been for one man, Henry Ward. Ward was a political heavyweight in Kentucky, and was a Paducah native. During this time he also was the State Highway Commissioner. He swung the route to Paducah, and threw Evansville-Henderson a bone in the Pennyrile Parkway. In the article announcing the decision in 1961, Ward was quoted with the promise that US 41 would be replaced with a modern, 4-lane highway in the very near future.  He appears to have been true to his word, as the Pennyrile went from the drawing board to completion in under a 5 year period. A time-frame unheard of today.

An interesting side note from Wards obituary. He was credited with routing I-65 through downtown Louisville and later referred to that as a mistake.

Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

sparker

Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: Captain Jack on October 20, 2017, 12:43:20 AM
Going through the Courier and Press archives on the EVPL site, there was a serious push to get I-24 routed along US 41 from Nashville to Evansville. This heated up considerably when the southern route for I-64 was selected.

Indiana was pushing hard, and it appears it would have happened had it not been for one man, Henry Ward. Ward was a political heavyweight in Kentucky, and was a Paducah native. During this time he also was the State Highway Commissioner. He swung the route to Paducah, and threw Evansville-Henderson a bone in the Pennyrile Parkway. In the article announcing the decision in 1961, Ward was quoted with the promise that US 41 would be replaced with a modern, 4-lane highway in the very near future.  He appears to have been true to his word, as the Pennyrile went from the drawing board to completion in under a 5 year period. A time-frame unheard of today.

An interesting side note from Wards obituary. He was credited with routing I-65 through downtown Louisville and later referred to that as a mistake.

Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Even with the high level of corridor pre-planning prevalent in the first several years of Interstate development (about '57-'64), there was still some politics, mostly at the state and local levels (since the states were charged with delineating the exact alignments), involved in the process; this is certainly one of those instances.  Ward, as a KY official, preferred to serve the considerably smaller Paducah over Evansville -- likely because the latter was not in his state.  There's often little or no altruism -- but more than a bit of self-interest -- within a process such as this that inherently produces winners & losers.

Revive 755

Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Per Wikipedia, Paducah had a population of 34,479 in 1960, while Evansville had a population of 141,543 and Henderson, KY had a population of 16,982 in 1960.

They could have tried throwing a bigger bone to Evansville and Henderson and had the Pennyrile built so to interstate standards so it could have been later numbered as I-61 or I-63.

Captain Jack

Quote from: Revive 755 on October 20, 2017, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Per Wikipedia, Paducah had a population of 34,479 in 1960, while Evansville had a population of 141,543 and Henderson, KY had a population of 16,982 in 1960.

They could have tried throwing a bigger bone to Evansville and Henderson and had the Pennyrile built so to interstate standards so it could have been later numbered as I-61 or I-63.

If they had added just another 2.5 miles to the north end, and brought it up to the bridge, that bone would have been sufficient. I have never understood how they could have decided to invest and build nearly 80 miles of new highway, and literally leave 2 miles off the north, and 8 miles off of the south ends.  The so called Henderson strip was not heavily developed during that time, so running it on up to the bridge would not have been that costly.

sparker

Quote from: Captain Jack on October 20, 2017, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 20, 2017, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Per Wikipedia, Paducah had a population of 34,479 in 1960, while Evansville had a population of 141,543 and Henderson, KY had a population of 16,982 in 1960.

They could have tried throwing a bigger bone to Evansville and Henderson and had the Pennyrile built so to interstate standards so it could have been later numbered as I-61 or I-63.

If they had added just another 2.5 miles to the north end, and brought it up to the bridge, that bone would have been sufficient. I have never understood how they could have decided to invest and build nearly 80 miles of new highway, and literally leave 2 miles off the north, and 8 miles off of the south ends.  The so called Henderson strip was not heavily developed during that time, so running it on up to the bridge would not have been that costly.

The I-24 alignment NW of Nashville was in something of a state of flux during that time; the original suggested route out of Nashville was US 41A to Clarksburg (as it is today), but turning west there along US 79 to near Buchanan on the west bank of the Tennessee River.  From there it was to follow TN 119 and KY 121 to Mayfield, KY, then north along US 45 to Paducah.  IIRC, the "beeline" from Clarksburg to Eddyville, KY wasn't adopted until about 1967, after the "alternate" I-24S along what is now US 412 from Jackson, TN to Hayti, MO was proposed circa 1963 to avoid traversing the "Land Between the Lakes" but abandoned a few years later in favor of the present I-24 route that avoided the then-proposed park area by circumnavigating it to the north.  But both the first and final I-24 iterations had one thing in common: Paducah.  The present route accomplished a number of goals important to Mr. Ward and the state of Kentucky in general: it connected the then-nascent parkway system (WKY to Purchase) in the western part of the state while utilizing that precious 90% federal funding level to construct the crossings of both the Cumberland and Tennessee rivers, saving the state a non-inconsiderable amount of money.  Obviously connecting the I-24 "beeline" to the Pennyrile wasn't much of a priority, seeing that those last 7 miles weren't done until about 45 years after Ward originally commissioned the parkway; in that sense, provding Evansville service from the south was something of an "afterthought", at least within KY transportation circles at the time.

And, to reiterate the obvious, the western half of the doomed I-24S proposal was added to the Interstate system later as I-155. 

Life in Paradise

Quote from: sparker on October 21, 2017, 03:04:56 AM
Quote from: Captain Jack on October 20, 2017, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 20, 2017, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Per Wikipedia, Paducah had a population of 34,479 in 1960, while Evansville had a population of 141,543 and Henderson, KY had a population of 16,982 in 1960.

They could have tried throwing a bigger bone to Evansville and Henderson and had the Pennyrile built so to interstate standards so it could have been later numbered as I-61 or I-63.

If they had added just another 2.5 miles to the north end, and brought it up to the bridge, that bone would have been sufficient. I have never understood how they could have decided to invest and build nearly 80 miles of new highway, and literally leave 2 miles off the north, and 8 miles off of the south ends.  The so called Henderson strip was not heavily developed during that time, so running it on up to the bridge would not have been that costly.

The I-24 alignment NW of Nashville was in something of a state of flux during that time; the original suggested route out of Nashville was US 41A to Clarksburg (as it is today), but turning west there along US 79 to near Buchanan on the west bank of the Tennessee River.  From there it was to follow TN 119 and KY 121 to Mayfield, KY, then north along US 45 to Paducah.  IIRC, the "beeline" from Clarksburg to Eddyville, KY wasn't adopted until about 1967, after the "alternate" I-24S along what is now US 412 from Jackson, TN to Hayti, MO was proposed circa 1963 to avoid traversing the "Land Between the Lakes" but abandoned a few years later in favor of the present I-24 route that avoided the then-proposed park area by circumnavigating it to the north.  But both the first and final I-24 iterations had one thing in common: Paducah.  The present route accomplished a number of goals important to Mr. Ward and the state of Kentucky in general: it connected the then-nascent parkway system (WKY to Purchase) in the western part of the state while utilizing that precious 90% federal funding level to construct the crossings of both the Cumberland and Tennessee rivers, saving the state a non-inconsiderable amount of money.  Obviously connecting the I-24 "beeline" to the Pennyrile wasn't much of a priority, seeing that those last 7 miles weren't done until about 45 years after Ward originally commissioned the parkway; in that sense, provding Evansville service from the south was something of an "afterthought", at least within KY transportation circles at the time.

And, to reiterate the obvious, the western half of the doomed I-24S proposal was added to the Interstate system later as I-155.
I would think that Tennessee would have welcomed the use of the US-79 corridor from Clarksville, TN west until it went up through Murray and Mayfield.  All of the development that is currently in Kentucky in the Eddyville/Gilbertsville/Cadiz area would have been on the south side of the LBL area instead.  Would have also been a plus for Murray, KY with Murray State University, but I  think that they've done OK since then.

sparker

Quote from: Life in Paradise on October 21, 2017, 11:33:15 AM
I would think that Tennessee would have welcomed the use of the US-79 corridor from Clarksville, TN west until it went up through Murray and Mayfield.  All of the development that is currently in Kentucky in the Eddyville/Gilbertsville/Cadiz area would have been on the south side of the LBL area instead.  Would have also been a plus for Murray, KY with Murray State University, but I  think that they've done OK since then.

IIRC, the driving force behind abandoning the Murray/Mayfield I-24 routing was rumblings in the '60's regarding establishing the Land Between the Lakes as protected parkland; TN likely projected that parkland might extend south between the two lakes well past the US 79 crossing -- and they simply hedged their bets with the original "I-24S" concept (the parkland was eventually put in place with the Land Between the Lakes NRA).  The prioritization re I-24 as a whole was the segment between Nashville and Chattanooga -- which was seen as a more vital in-state link than the segment toward St. Louis, although from a regional viewpoint the latter is also an important connector. 

Captain Jack

Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: Captain Jack on October 20, 2017, 12:43:20 AM
Going through the Courier and Press archives on the EVPL site, there was a serious push to get I-24 routed along US 41 from Nashville to Evansville. This heated up considerably when the southern route for I-64 was selected.

Indiana was pushing hard, and it appears it would have happened had it not been for one man, Henry Ward. Ward was a political heavyweight in Kentucky, and was a Paducah native. During this time he also was the State Highway Commissioner. He swung the route to Paducah, and threw Evansville-Henderson a bone in the Pennyrile Parkway. In the article announcing the decision in 1961, Ward was quoted with the promise that US 41 would be replaced with a modern, 4-lane highway in the very near future.  He appears to have been true to his word, as the Pennyrile went from the drawing board to completion in under a 5 year period. A time-frame unheard of today.

An interesting side note from Wards obituary. He was credited with routing I-65 through downtown Louisville and later referred to that as a mistake.

Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Don't forget, Evansville was also in a dogfight with Vincennes, population 18K, for I-64. This fight resulted in the "compromised" southern route, which is about 10 miles too far north to provide any traffic benefit to the Evansville area.

Instead of fighting over I-64, Vincennes should have joined forces with Evansville and Terre Haute and went all out in getting the Chicago-Nashville route right down the US 41 corridor. That would have provided far more reaching benefits than I-64.

WKDAVE

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 11, 2016, 02:35:29 PM
Quote from: coatimundi on August 07, 2016, 01:02:32 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
Did Gary secretly join Illinois?

Might as well. Northwestern Indiana seems to feel perpetually neglected by Indianapolis. The Central Time folks just don't have much of a central focus. I don't blame them.

Quote from: Captain Jack on August 06, 2016, 01:15:07 PM2. The initial Interstate System. I-64 is certainly questionable. It seems odd there was a dogfight with Vincennes to begin with.

Somewhere in this forum, someone posted the "History of the Interstate System in Indiana," produced by Purdue in the 70's. I found it enthralling, especially with its depiction of the history of I-64. But it talks about this fight between Vincennes and Evansville, and it was not just simply a matter of size or some wealthy corporate weight-swinging. There was a period where I-64 was shown on commercial maps as following US 50, so it was certainly a strong consideration.
I mean, maybe you guys know that publication really well, but, if not, it's definitely worth a couple of hours of reading if you're interested in how routings were determined.
I mean, when I lived in Bloomington, I preferred US 50 as a route to St. Louis over 46 to 70. It was more interesting and, after 69 was completed to US 231, it took about the same amount of time, even with the congested jog in Lebanon.

Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2016, 11:58:38 PM
as well as making it harder to get the Champaign-Urbana.

And I think that's one of the big reasons I-57 exists. There's always been a tremendous amount of vehicle traffic between Chicagoland and Chambana. Those rich parents from the suburbs don't want to have to roll through Rantoul or Gilman on surface streets.

that link was absolute gold!  i've been looking for history books talking about the reason why the interstate are they way they are now.

RE: Vincennes...I-64 was envisioned to follow the old Midland Trail from Virginia Beach, VA to St. Louis. That's why the Government was looking at following US 150/US 50 from Louisville to St. Louis after following US 60 from Virginia Beach to Louisville.

westerninterloper

#46
Quote from: Captain Jack on October 23, 2017, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 20, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: Captain Jack on October 20, 2017, 12:43:20 AM
Going through the Courier and Press archives on the EVPL site, there was a serious push to get I-24 routed along US 41 from Nashville to Evansville. This heated up considerably when the southern route for I-64 was selected.

Indiana was pushing hard, and it appears it would have happened had it not been for one man, Henry Ward. Ward was a political heavyweight in Kentucky, and was a Paducah native. During this time he also was the State Highway Commissioner. He swung the route to Paducah, and threw Evansville-Henderson a bone in the Pennyrile Parkway. In the article announcing the decision in 1961, Ward was quoted with the promise that US 41 would be replaced with a modern, 4-lane highway in the very near future.  He appears to have been true to his word, as the Pennyrile went from the drawing board to completion in under a 5 year period. A time-frame unheard of today.

An interesting side note from Wards obituary. He was credited with routing I-65 through downtown Louisville and later referred to that as a mistake.

Wow a city of 25k deserves an interstate over a city with 121k, i assume the population differences were about the same back then too.

Don't forget, Evansville was also in a dogfight with Vincennes, population 18K, for I-64. This fight resulted in the "compromised" southern route, which is about 10 miles too far north to provide any traffic benefit to the Evansville area.

Instead of fighting over I-64, Vincennes should have joined forces with Evansville and Terre Haute and went all out in getting the Chicago-Nashville route right down the US 41 corridor. That would have provided far more reaching benefits than I-64.

In the early 1980s, INDOT had plans to build a western bypass around Terre Haute, starting on US41/150 just about where the current SR641 bypass ends, connecting up to SR 63 north of TH. I've heard that the city balked at the deal for what reason I cant recall.

If that had been completed, or if a connector from the former US40 and SR 46 intersection near Rose-Hulman to SR 63 north of TH were completed now, the route from Evansville to Chicago would be well on its way to an expressway like US 24 or 30. Still some traffic lights to remove or endure in northern Sullivan and southern Vermillion counties, but the TH bypass would improve that route considerably.
Nostalgia: Indiana's State Religion

Captain Jack

My guess is there was political issues that prevented INDOT from pursuing this at that time. Terre Haute has always had a reputation for having a lot of political cronyism, especially in years past.

I am afraid taking SR-641 on around the eastern side and then back across would be too costly, and too lengthy for a north-south motorist. Just looking at maps without a ton of geographical knowledge of the route, it appears the cheapest and most direct option would be to drop the route straight south from IN-63, around West Terre Haute, joining I-70 across the Wabash, and then south behind the mall area, hooking up with US 41 at the SR 641 interchange. This would also give Terre Haute a nice expressway loop around 3/4 of the city.

sparker

Quote from: Captain Jack on December 13, 2017, 01:14:33 PM
My guess is there was political issues that prevented INDOT from pursuing this at that time. Terre Haute has always had a reputation for having a lot of political cronyism, especially in years past.

I am afraid taking SR-641 on around the eastern side and then back across would be too costly, and too lengthy for a north-south motorist. Just looking at maps without a ton of geographical knowledge of the route, it appears the cheapest and most direct option would be to drop the route straight south from IN-63, around West Terre Haute, joining I-70 across the Wabash, and then south behind the mall area, hooking up with US 41 at the SR 641 interchange. This would also give Terre Haute a nice expressway loop around 3/4 of the city.
Quote from: Captain Jack on December 13, 2017, 01:14:33 PM
My guess is there was political issues that prevented INDOT from pursuing this at that time. Terre Haute has always had a reputation for having a lot of political cronyism, especially in years past.

I am afraid taking SR-641 on around the eastern side and then back across would be too costly, and too lengthy for a north-south motorist. Just looking at maps without a ton of geographical knowledge of the route, it appears the cheapest and most direct option would be to drop the route straight south from IN-63, around West Terre Haute, joining I-70 across the Wabash, and then south behind the mall area, hooking up with US 41 at the SR 641 interchange. This would also give Terre Haute a nice expressway loop around 3/4 of the city.

"3/4" loops are in and of themselves an interesting concept:  capable of functioning as a bypass for two directions (in the Terre Haute case, both a E-W bypass, using the existing IN 641) and a N-S bypass with the western proposed new alignment.  But because it's not a full ring or loop, its usefulness as a place to put commercial or housing development is limited vis-à-vis a full loop (there's always some loop function that's not available!) -- it stands a decent chance of remaining a bypass rather than a commercial strip.  Besides, in this particular case, the location of the Wabash River makes it difficult (read expensive) to connect the north end of 641 directly across to IN 63; best just to extend that alignment generally south to the 41/641 junction.



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