Backlit Street Blades

[ColossalBlocks]

Where exactly are they used, and how long have they been in use?

[Pink Jazz]

Where exactly are they used, and how long have they been in use?

They are very commonplace in the Phoenix area and are in use by most of the cities, although Mesa only installs them on a case-by-case basis.  I think Phoenix itself though was a later adopter, since it's lighted street blades are in Clearview.

[MASTERNC]

Where exactly are they used, and how long have they been in use?

Out in Philly, they are heavily used in the King of Prussia area, though there are a few others scattered throughout other suburbs.

[jakeroot]

Several cities here in Washington use backlit street blades. They're all relatively new installations. Some cities, like Puyallup, use fluorescent tubing (thanks for the pointer, Pink Jazz), with thicker blades. Others, like Lakewood, use LED backlighting, so the blades are thinner (photos posted respectively):

[SignGeek101]

There's some in southern BC (Coquitlam):

https://goo.gl/maps/Q69cv47CNF12

https://goo.gl/maps/Tf3ARdejQTo

[Brandon]

They're becoming more commonplace around Chicagoland as well.

https://goo.gl/maps/rE4X9PrsGUM2

https://goo.gl/maps/Pu1rRoaLE9H2

[jbnv]

Baton Rouge has some, though they are very inconsistent on their use.


Drusilla Ln at Jefferson Hwy by Jay Bienvenu, on Flickr

[US-175]

Baton Rouge has some, though they are very inconsistent on their use.


Drusilla Ln at Jefferson Hwy by Jay Bienvenu, on Flickr

Hmmm... interesting yellow trim on those signals...  Oh, sorry I got distracted

Most of the ones in the Dallas area have been bigger, like Jake's Fairview sign.  Little by little as more LED backlights are available, I'm seeing more new and retrofit ones go the slim route a-la jbnv's pic on Drusilla.

[Pink Jazz]

Several cities here in Washington use backlit street blades. They're all relatively new installations. Some cities, like Puyallup, use incandescent tubes (or something like that), with thicker blades. Others, like Lakewood, use LED backlighting, so the blades are thinner (photos posted respectively):

Fluorescent, not incandescent.

Baton Rouge has some, though they are very inconsistent on their use.


Drusilla Ln at Jefferson Hwy by Jay Bienvenu, on Flickr

Hmmm... interesting yellow trim on those signals...  Oh, sorry I got distracted

Most of the ones in the Dallas area have been bigger, like Jake's Fairview sign.  Little by little as more LED backlights are available, I'm seeing more new and retrofit ones go the slim route a-la jbnv's pic on Drusilla.

I have actually seen some LED retrofits maintaining the existing fluorescent housings.  This saves money on not having to replace the entire sign, although the energy savings I don't think are as good as the slim LED signs.

[Pink Jazz]

Am I correct to assume that the fluorescent type signs are more common in warmer climates?  They are ubiquitous in Southern California, the Phoenix/Tucson areas, Las Vegas, and Florida, although I have seen them in some more moderate climates such as Virginia Beach, Virginia and Rio Rancho, New Mexico (plus the Washington example given).  I would think that cold temperatures could shorten the life of the fluorescent tubes.

I wonder if the Chicago examples posted are actually fluorescent.  I have seen some LED signs that use the same style housings as fluorescent (some being new installs and some being retrofits of existing fluorescent signs).

[westerninterloper]

Am I correct to assume that the fluorescent type signs are more common in warmer climates?  They are ubiquitous in Southern California, the Phoenix/Tucson areas, Las Vegas, and Florida, although I have seen them in some more moderate climates such as Virginia Beach, Virginia and Rio Rancho, New Mexico (plus the Washington example given).  I would think that cold temperatures could shorten the life of the fluorescent tubes.

I wonder if the Chicago examples posted are actually fluorescent.  I have seen some LED signs that use the same style housings as fluorescent (some being new installs and some being retrofits of existing fluorescent signs).

Backlit blades have been installed on the east and north sides of Bowling Green, Ohio in the last three years. Definitely not a warm weather city.

[plain]

Richmond just started using them (the thin LED ones) about 5 years ago.
https://goo.gl/maps/ohaWWJGQdSQ2

Virginia Beach has been using the older fatter hanging ones for at least 25 years now
https://goo.gl/maps/JenXahchJvn
Though lately they've been installing the newer ones
https://goo.gl/maps/KhrWSzLhBfo

[Pink Jazz]

Virginia Beach has been using the older fatter hanging ones for at least 25 years now
https://goo.gl/maps/JenXahchJvn
Though lately they've been installing the newer ones
https://goo.gl/maps/KhrWSzLhBfo

Yes, and last time I was there, some of the older ones have been retrofitted with LED strips while keeping the existing housings.

Here in the Phoenix area, most cities actually install them mounted to a side post:
https://goo.gl/maps/QQxQpPF6dKN2

Glendale mostly uses the hanging type, though:
https://goo.gl/maps/58mxCzxx4tM2

Tempe and Goodyear mostly have them integrated into the mast arms themselves:
https://goo.gl/maps/8dy1Adp9KRQ2

[steviep24]

Manhattan has some backlit street blades that use a non standard font (looks like New Times Roman).

Lexington Ave. at E 47th St.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7545749,-73.9737507,3a,75y,145.79h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGcvYtaenH9h1cnEu6Kvh-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

[plain]

Tempe and Goodyear mostly have them integrated into the mast arms themselves:
https://goo.gl/maps/8dy1Adp9KRQ2

As you know Virginia Beach also have these mast arms with the backlit street blades (on Atlantic Ave only of course). There's also these ground mounted white signs. I can't remember whether or not they were backlit, or maybe I was too lit myself to notice 
https://goo.gl/maps/YRtzkVsFXJ22

[MNHighwayMan]

As you know Virginia Beach also have these mast arms with the backlit street blades (on Atlantic Ave only of course). There's also these ground mounted white signs. I can't remember whether or not they were backlit, or maybe I was too lit myself to notice 
https://goo.gl/maps/YRtzkVsFXJ22

Wow, those signals are fugly.

[Pink Jazz]

As you know Virginia Beach also have these mast arms with the backlit street blades (on Atlantic Ave only of course). There's also these ground mounted white signs. I can't remember whether or not they were backlit, or maybe I was too lit myself to notice 
https://goo.gl/maps/YRtzkVsFXJ22

These type of masts are known as modular signal poles, and are manufactured by a company known as CAID Industries in Tucson.

[roadfro]

Am I correct to assume that the fluorescent type signs are more common in warmer climates?  They are ubiquitous in Southern California, the Phoenix/Tucson areas, Las Vegas, and Florida, although I have seen them in some more moderate climates such as Virginia Beach, Virginia and Rio Rancho, New Mexico (plus the Washington example given).  I would think that cold temperatures could shorten the life of the fluorescent tubes.

The fluorescent style has been pretty standard throughout Nevada for years, but may be starting to give way to LED.

I'm certain the Vegas area was the earliest adopters, with every agency (except North Las Vegas, which still doesn't use backlit signs) using fluorescent backlit signs at all signals for about as long as I've been alive (I'm about to turn 34, and these are all I can remember since about age 5). I am not aware of any thin LED backlit signs in the Vegas area, but there may be some fluorescent housings that use LED retrofits.

Reno/Sparks, Carson City, and other Northern Nevada locales still have several older signal installations that use more traditional street blades. But the vast majority of signal installations have implemented fluorescent backlit signs. Reno, Carson City, and some other areas have started using the thin LED sign housings for new signals installed within the last 5 years or so.

[Pink Jazz]

As for the pros and cons of the thin LED type signs vs. the LED retrofit fluorescent style signs, here is what I know:


Pros for thin LED signs:

   
• Uses less energy than both fluorescent and LED retrofit fluorescent style signs.
• Lightweight and thin.
• Can generally be mounted directly onto a mast arm.

Cons for thin LED signs:

   
• LED light source is generally non-replaceable - entire sign must be replaced if LED light source fails.
• Wires are often visible externally.

Pros for LED retrofit fluorescent style signs:

   
• LED strips are replaceable if any fail.
• Wires are generally hidden.
• Lower upfront cost for cities that already have existing fluorescent signs (vs. replacing the existing signs).

Cons for LED retrofit fluorescent style signs:

   
• Somewhat less energy efficient than the thin LED signs.
• Big and bulky.
• Generally must be suspended or mounted to a side post.

[roadfro]

^ Two questions:

1. How do we know the fluorescent-style LED retrofits are less energy efficient than thin-style LED signs?

2. What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing?  I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...

[jakeroot]

What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing?  I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...

The former. At least around here, the flourescent thick-style signs seem to have wires that are better hidden. Compare the two images that I linked in post #3. The "Fairview" street blade has a wire that is pulled completely straight (it's the farthest wire closest to the mast), whereas the "Bridgeport" street blade has a wire that's not as straight. In terms of cleanliness, less visible wiring is probably preferred. I suppose thin-style LED street blades could have tidier wiring, but I've yet to see a good application of that.

[roadfro]

What do you mean by wires being visible externally? Are you talking about the wire that attaches from the mast/mast arm to the sign housing, or wiring internal to the sign housing?  I've never seen an thin LED sign where you could see internal wiring...

The former. At least around here, the flourescent thick-style signs seem to have wires that are better hidden. Compare the two images that I linked in post #3. The "Fairview" street blade has a wire that is pulled completely straight (it's the farthest wire closest to the mast), whereas the "Bridgeport" street blade has a wire that's not as straight. In terms of cleanliness, less visible wiring is probably preferred. I suppose thin-style LED street blades could have tidier wiring, but I've yet to see a good application of that.

But that's really related to the installation, and has nothing to do with the sign/sign housing itself.


Example: Take the I-80 & McCarran Blvd West interchange in Reno, in which backlit street name signs with fluorescent lighting are used at both ramp intersections. The older sign on the eastbound ramp has a wire that is pretty short, and comes from the mast arm. The newer sign on the westbound ramp (the signal was reconstructed several years ago) has a longer wire coming from the mast, and a junction box on the outside of the backlit sign housing. Compare the second sign with this LED backlit sign at N. Virginia St & College Dr, and you can see the wire installation is virtually identical to the second McCarran example.

As an aside: I believe there are regional/NDOT standards for newer signal installations that now specify the placement of the street name sign, and the location/amount of wiring for said sign's housing. So for newer installs, there is more wire but the look is more consistent.

[Pink Jazz]

^ Two questions:

1. How do we know the fluorescent-style LED retrofits are less energy efficient than thin-style LED signs?

The thin LED signs are more energy efficient than the LED retrofit fluorescent-style signs since they use fewer LEDs.  From what I read, the LED retrofit signs use 50% less energy than standard fluorescent, while the thin LED signs use 90% less energy.  I think the thin signs are edge-lit, rather than backlit.

[MASTERNC]

Sadly I think the backlit sign blades on signals are on their way out in King of Prussia, PA. Two lights I passed that had them before now have standard unlit  signs on the signals. They are upgrading signals on that corridor and others so we'll see if more disappear.

[Scott5114]

They're slowly on the rise in Norman, Oklahoma, although it's hard to figure out what exactly their criteria are for where they go. The vast majority of new installs are regular aluminum, but two new ones showed up at 24th NW and Robinson as well as Lindsey and Ed Noble.