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Author Topic: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway  (Read 184780 times)

hobsini2

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #600 on: March 28, 2021, 07:11:57 PM »

Seems like there's an easy way to do this:

Suppose that a mainline toll plaza is $1
Entering at any point before the toll plaza is free
Exiting at any point before the toll plaza is pro-rated based on the percentage of where the exit is in relation to the two mainline plazas it's between. If it's 20% of the way, the toll is 20 cents, 50% of the way = 50 cents, etc.


There was a time when ISTHA actually had something like that. You knew which exits were the transition spots between mainline tolls. For the most part, this is still in place in practice on 88 and 355.
York Rd/Meyers Rd toll zone is I-294 to 59.
Aurora is 59 to 56 West.
De Kalb is 47 to I-39.
Dixon is everything west of 251.
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lstone19

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #601 on: March 28, 2021, 07:44:30 PM »

There was a time when ISTHA actually had something like that. You knew which exits were the transition spots between mainline tolls. For the most part, this is still in place in practice on 88 and 355.
York Rd/Meyers Rd toll zone is I-294 to 59.
Aurora is 59 to 56 West.
De Kalb is 47 to I-39.
Dixon is everything west of 251.

If you go back to around 1970 (after the ticket section on I-90 (Elgin to S. Beloit) was dropped, before the I-88 extension west of Aurora was built, and before the Deerfield plaza was removed), they were:
163rd Street Plaza: I-94 to Cicero (for a while, I-94 to Halstead was free but I think that went away in the late 60s)
82nd/83rd St Plazas: Cicero to Ogden
Cermak, York, and Meyers Plazas: Ogden to I-290 on I-294 along with I-294 to IL-59 on I-88 (one zone, just as it is today if you look at it closely)
O'Hare complex plazas: I-290 to Dempster on I-294 and Kennedy Expwy to Barrington Rd. on I-90 (it's all one zone and no matter how you get to the O'Hare interchange, you pay only one toll leaving the O'Hare interchange)
Deerfield Plaza: Golf Rd. to Grand Ave. Gurnee
Waukegan Plaza: Grand Ave. Gurnee to north end of the Tri-State
Aurora Plaza: IL-59 to west end of East-West Tollway (before the extension)
Elgin Plaza: IL-59 to US-20 (Hampshire)
Hampshire Plaza: US-20 to Genoa Rd
Belvidere Plaza: Genoa Rd to Business 20 (Rockford)
South Beloit Plaza: Business 20 to South Beloit (end of tollway)

355 on its own has two zones: Army Trail Rd to Ogden Ave and Ogden Ave. to I-55. But when tied into I-88, both of those zone extend west to IL-59 (if you enter at Army Trail and go to IL-59 on I-88, you pay only the single toll on I-355 right after entering at Army Trail). But go from I-355 from either side and go to I-88 east and you pay on both I-355 and on I-88 (perversely, you could enter I-355 at Butterfield and exit I-88 at Highland Ave., pay two tolls, rack up more miles, and maybe even take longer than just taking Butterfield to Highland.

In the opposite direction, one can enter I-88 east at IL-59 and have four distinct destinations they can go to for a single toll: I-290 at I-294, Ogden exit on I-294, Army Trail exit on I-355, and I-55 exit on I-355.

A big part of me admires how the ISTHA designed the original toll system, particularly the O'Hare complex and the Cermak/York/Meyers complex. And yet I'm unimpressed with how in recent years they have completely butchered much of the logic of the system.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #602 on: March 28, 2021, 09:44:28 PM »

When IL 390 was converted from a non-toll road to a toll road, was there a lot of opposition to doing so? Plus, the six toll plazas seem like overkill to me. Did there really need to be that many?
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lstone19

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #603 on: March 28, 2021, 10:26:01 PM »

When IL 390 was converted from a non-toll road to a toll road, was there a lot of opposition to doing so? Plus, the six toll plazas seem like overkill to me. Did there really need to be that many?

I live 1/4 mile from the road. Despite the impact, I don’t recall there being any real organized opposition to it.

As for the toll plazas, the idea is that each plaza collects the toll only for the immediate preceding exit to the next exit. Compare that to the legacy part of they system where if you pass through a mainline plaza, you pay the same toll whether you’re going one exit or from the beginning of that plaza’s zone to the end of the zone (e.g., Entering I-355 at Army Trail, you immediately pass through the mainline plaza and then pay the same toll whether you get off at North Avenue (about two miles) or go to IL-59 on I-88 (15 miles?)).

Despite the theory, they screwed us where we live by not quite following the theory. The Plum Grove Rd Plaza charges for the three miles from Roselle Rd. to I-290. But there’s an interchange in between at Meacham/Medinah Roads. Travel between it and Roselle Road and you pay the extra as if I-290 was the east endpoint. Travel between it and I-290 and you get a free ride. As a result, I’ve shunpiked them 100% since the tolls were added when I need to only go between Roselle Road and Meacham Road.

There’s other weirdness east of I-290. There is a direct ramp from I-290 to the frontage road with no toll but you can’t get back to I-290 without getting on IL-390 and paying a toll.
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #604 on: March 29, 2021, 10:58:56 AM »

When IL 390 was converted from a non-toll road to a toll road, was there a lot of opposition to doing so? Plus, the six toll plazas seem like overkill to me. Did there really need to be that many?

I didn't hear much opposition, and I think it was generally accepted since it would help traffic flow from Rohlwing Road eastward especially as Elk Grove Village and WoodDale became major industry hubs. Plus the EOH was due for a rebuild at the time
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3467

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #605 on: March 29, 2021, 11:54:45 AM »

I remember we discussed the transfer here. We were wondering if it needed any federal approval. While it was built mostly by state bond funding it might have a some federal money. No one knew because the few stories usually just mentioned the state transferred it. The minimal coverage seems to be an indication there was no controversy.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #606 on: March 29, 2021, 09:56:07 PM »

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-01-25-ct-met-tollway-elgin-ohare-20130125-story.html

Richard Wronski, Chicago Tribune reporter
The federal government has signed off on an agreement allowing the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway to be converted into a tollway, officials said this week.

The decision will give the Illinois Tollway the authority to include the 20-year-old highway in its Elgin-O'Hare Western Access Project, according to officials in Washington, D.C., and Illinois.

The $3.4 billion project calls for building a tollway running along the western border of O'Hare International Airport. The tollway will link the Jane Addams Memorial Tollway (I-90) and the Tri-State Tollway (I-294).

This "bypass" tollway will connect with the existing Elgin-O'Hare Expressway, which will be widened and extended east along Thorndale Avenue. The decision by the U.S. Transportation Department allows tolls to be charged.

In addition to federal approval, the tollway agency said it also needs approval from the state and is working on a General Assembly joint resolution to include the Elgin-O'Hare plan.

The U.S. has the authority to make the Elgin-O'Hare eligible to be a tollway under terms of the transportation bill that President Barack Obama signed into law in July, said a spokesman for Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

"I am pleased that we found a solution, so that when built, this project can provide mobility for the people of Illinois for generations to come," LaHood said in a statement.

The decision was hailed by U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin and Rep. Tammy Duckworth, who represents the area, as well as Gov. Pat Quinn and tollway Executive Director Kristi Lafleur.

The 12.5-mile Elgin-O'Hare was built in 1993 for $220 million. Despite its name, it connects neither Elgin nor O'Hare. It runs between U.S. Highway 20 (Lake Street) near Hanover Park and Interstate 290 in Itasca.

Backed by an advisory council's report, Quinn in 2011 called for the project to be built to help stimulate the regional economy and potentially create thousands of jobs. At Quinn's urging, the tollway authority later adopted the project.

But the move to turn the expressway into a toll road has stirred some critics.

James Tobin, president of Taxpayers United of America, called the plan an example of "empire-building" on the part of tollway officials.

"The road already exists as freeway," Tobin said. "The tollway was set up to build new roads. … It's a new revenue source and allows them to line their pockets, get pay raises and retire in pension glory."

Tobin's group took the tollway to court last year in an unsuccessful challenge of the near-doubling of tolls to pay for the agency's $12.1 billion rebuilding program, called Move Illinois. The Elgin-O'Hare project is the centerpiece of that effort.

The new Elgin-O'Hare is expected to take 12 years to complete. To begin work, the tollway plans to spend $95.6 million this year. Potential construction includes noise walls along the existing Elgin-O'Hare, a Rohlwing Road (Illinois Route 53) grade separation and the construction of a new bridge to carry southbound Elmhurst Road traffic over I-90.

As part of the project, the tollway plans to build a $30 million ramp via York Road to access O'Hare property.

There are, however, no plans to construct a western terminal, as once hoped, because of the lack of an agreement between the city of Chicago and the major airlines at O'Hare, led by United and American.

The tollway authority, meanwhile, announced that 10 financial firms will be the underwriters for the first $1 billion in bonds for Move Illinois. An additional 10 firms will underwrite $500 million in refinanced existing debt.

The underwriting fee will not exceed $2.50 per $1,000 worth of bonds, tollway finance chief Michael Colsch said.

Tollway officials also announced Thursday a proposal to give motorists a total of three months instead of two to respond to toll violation notices.

Officials said the plan would be fairer to customers and is in line with toll agencies in other states. The proposal will need further approval, however.

The tollway board also approved a $1 million contract with Gilbane Building Co., of Chicago, to review construction practices and work that has been performed, officials said.

rwronski@tribune.com Twitter @richwronski
Copyright © 2021, Chicago Tribune
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Rick Powell

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #607 on: March 30, 2021, 09:32:11 PM »

I guess you could say "relatively little opposition". I remember some grumbling in the area such as Tobin's but not much. I am not sure if it was a chicken-or-egg situation...that the tollway takeover was not well-publicized and therefore drew little opposition, or that there was little publicity because there was muted opposition. I do know that the 2011 tollway hearings for the $12B capital plan that raised tolls to pay for several planned projects including EOWB (which I attended a few of) drew more supporters than opponents.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #608 on: March 31, 2021, 09:31:03 AM »

The southern Illinois legislative districts did not oppose the EOH going private because at the time IDOT funding was in short supply, and anything that stops the draining of funding for projects outside Chicago is a good thing.

At the moment the Chicago metro area is really the only area that supports the volume ISTHA needs to maintain a viable operation.

While I understand the criticisms over lining a pocket and a healthy pension, etc. etc. I have no issues of holding up ISTHA as one of the better highways to drive on, especially in the winter time.

Yes, they have their warts, and before they refinanced their bonds so as to fix the Rock Falls end of I-88, I might have said something different.

But ISTHA wasn't indifferent to the issues out west and when the law was changed to support I-355 financing, they didn't waste time fixing I-88.

Most people aren't aware but transportation planners (at least most of them) like tollways because raising the cost of car travel makes it easier to justify transit funding.

Constant and chronic starvation of tax revenue for public highways in Illinois make them incredibly cheap transportation options, but as everyone knows you get what you pay for.

While Illinois raised their gas tax (finally), I am surprised more people in the Chicago Metro didn't complain because they essentially would be paying the most for all of their transportation options compared to their peers in the rest of Illinois.

Not only the tollway rates along with the gas tax, but they also pay a sales tax to support RTA (transit) and that includes sales taxes on motor fuels.

This shifting of burden ultimately benefits taxpayers outside of Chicago.



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3467

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #609 on: March 31, 2021, 11:39:41 AM »

The Tollway  map from 97 showed both the South 335 extension and the 53 extension.
About then the legislature authorized both those extensions as well as the one to Richmond and 355 to 57. That one was found unviable because of development in the way. Also I recall the Foxway was gone for the same reason and that is why the Prarie Parkway and Illiana were so far out.
Elgin Ohare was primarily held up then because of issues with city and airport.
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I-39

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #610 on: March 31, 2021, 11:57:30 AM »

The Tollway  map from 97 showed both the South 335 extension and the 53 extension.
About then the legislature authorized both those extensions as well as the one to Richmond and 355 to 57. That one was found unviable because of development in the way. Also I recall the Foxway was gone for the same reason and that is why the Prarie Parkway and Illiana were so far out.
Elgin Ohare was primarily held up then because of issues with city and airport.

My understanding is the IL-53 Richmond leg never got any serious consideration due to the environmental constraints. I thought I remember seeing somewhere that the tollway wasn't interested in it being authorized in the first place.
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3467

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #611 on: March 31, 2021, 12:30:49 PM »

I think you are right. They did study Peoria Chicago and a 24 extension and maybe something on 20 . The first two were not really viable.
I saw a map on the wall of the Ohare oasis service center in 2017. That map has both 53 and Illiana. I have all the maps from 2013 to 17 nothing like that on those.

Has anyone ever seen those I am missing 18 and 19.
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Revive 755

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #612 on: March 31, 2021, 09:42:15 PM »

I guess you could say "relatively little opposition". I remember some grumbling in the area such as Tobin's but not much. I am not sure if it was a chicken-or-egg situation...that the tollway takeover was not well-publicized and therefore drew little opposition, or that there was little publicity because there was muted opposition.

I seem to recall very little opposition to giving the Elgin O'Hare to ISTHA.  Unlike the brief mentions of giving the existing freeway section of IL 53 north of I-90 to ISTHA - that seemed to be getting a lot more opposition. 
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #613 on: March 31, 2021, 10:19:38 PM »

I guess you could say "relatively little opposition". I remember some grumbling in the area such as Tobin's but not much. I am not sure if it was a chicken-or-egg situation...that the tollway takeover was not well-publicized and therefore drew little opposition, or that there was little publicity because there was muted opposition.

I seem to recall very little opposition to giving the Elgin O'Hare to ISTHA.  Unlike the brief mentions of giving the existing freeway section of IL 53 north of I-90 to ISTHA - that seemed to be getting a lot more opposition.

If I had to take a guess, one gets used a lot more than the other.
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I-39

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #614 on: April 01, 2021, 02:34:53 PM »

I guess you could say "relatively little opposition". I remember some grumbling in the area such as Tobin's but not much. I am not sure if it was a chicken-or-egg situation...that the tollway takeover was not well-publicized and therefore drew little opposition, or that there was little publicity because there was muted opposition.

I seem to recall very little opposition to giving the Elgin O'Hare to ISTHA.  Unlike the brief mentions of giving the existing freeway section of IL 53 north of I-90 to ISTHA - that seemed to be getting a lot more opposition.

If I had to take a guess, one gets used a lot more than the other.

In reality though, they SHOULD have kept the EOWA free and ISTHA taken over the existing IL-53 freeway not just to pay for the extension, but to upgrade the existing portion to modern standards.
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JoePCool14

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #615 on: April 01, 2021, 03:26:48 PM »

I guess you could say "relatively little opposition". I remember some grumbling in the area such as Tobin's but not much. I am not sure if it was a chicken-or-egg situation...that the tollway takeover was not well-publicized and therefore drew little opposition, or that there was little publicity because there was muted opposition.

I seem to recall very little opposition to giving the Elgin O'Hare to ISTHA.  Unlike the brief mentions of giving the existing freeway section of IL 53 north of I-90 to ISTHA - that seemed to be getting a lot more opposition.

If I had to take a guess, one gets used a lot more than the other.

In reality though, they SHOULD have kept the EOWA free and ISTHA taken over the existing IL-53 freeway not just to pay for the extension, but to upgrade the existing portion to modern standards.
I agree. I would've gladly paid for a toll road extension of IL-53 than have no extension at all.

Also, EOWA is not an abbreviation for the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway I have heard.
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I-39

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #616 on: April 01, 2021, 04:56:04 PM »

I guess you could say "relatively little opposition". I remember some grumbling in the area such as Tobin's but not much. I am not sure if it was a chicken-or-egg situation...that the tollway takeover was not well-publicized and therefore drew little opposition, or that there was little publicity because there was muted opposition.

I seem to recall very little opposition to giving the Elgin O'Hare to ISTHA.  Unlike the brief mentions of giving the existing freeway section of IL 53 north of I-90 to ISTHA - that seemed to be getting a lot more opposition.

If I had to take a guess, one gets used a lot more than the other.

In reality though, they SHOULD have kept the EOWA free and ISTHA taken over the existing IL-53 freeway not just to pay for the extension, but to upgrade the existing portion to modern standards.
I agree. I would've gladly paid for a toll road extension of IL-53 than have no extension at all.

Also, EOWA is not an abbreviation for the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway I have heard.

I meant for the entire EOWA project. I stand by my opinion that ISTHA shouldn't have had anything to do with the project, it should have been built as an IDOT maintained freeway as originally intended, and only built when it is confirmed some sort of passenger facility will show up on the west side of O'Hare.

ISTHA needed to focus on the IL-53 corridor for system expansion in Move Illinois.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #617 on: April 03, 2021, 04:34:58 PM »

Also, EOWA is not an abbreviation for the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway I have heard.
The study for the Thorndale conversion and what became I-494 was known as EOWB or "Elgin-O'Hare Western Bypass". It was also called O'Hare Western Access in a few quarters.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 04:37:30 PM by Rick Powell »
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #618 on: April 07, 2021, 05:44:48 PM »

I stand by my opinion that ISTHA shouldn't have had anything to do with the project, it should have been built as an IDOT maintained freeway as originally intended, and only built when it is confirmed some sort of passenger facility will show up on the west side of O'Hare.

Pssh, if that was how it was, that highway wouldn't have been built until the 2050s.

ISTHA needed to focus on the IL-53 corridor for system expansion in Move Illinois.

Just goes to show how much easier it is to plop a tollway down in an industrial park than it is to build one thru a whiny suburb.
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I-39

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #619 on: April 09, 2021, 10:17:38 PM »

I stand by my opinion that ISTHA shouldn't have had anything to do with the project, it should have been built as an IDOT maintained freeway as originally intended, and only built when it is confirmed some sort of passenger facility will show up on the west side of O'Hare.

Pssh, if that was how it was, that highway wouldn't have been built until the 2050s.

It really isn’t needed until some sort of western access for passengers is ready to be built at O’Hare.
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #620 on: April 10, 2021, 02:23:02 PM »

I stand by my opinion that ISTHA shouldn't have had anything to do with the project, it should have been built as an IDOT maintained freeway as originally intended, and only built when it is confirmed some sort of passenger facility will show up on the west side of O'Hare.

Pssh, if that was how it was, that highway wouldn't have been built until the 2050s.

It really isn’t needed until some sort of western access for passengers is ready to be built at O’Hare.

I'd agree for the most part, but what it has done in the past 2 or 3 years is diverted a lot of truck traffic off other local streets since it gives access to Wood Dale Road, Busse Road, and York/Elmhurst which are all heavy freight corridors. Plus EGV is still growing as a major industry hub. I think it was def built ahead of its demand time and once 490 is done we'll probably see a big jump in truck usage on it
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #621 on: April 29, 2021, 08:55:01 PM »

Article and video from ABC7 Chicago about the new I-490. The people on this video are really stressing the great benefit of this route as a connector between I-90 and I-294. Obviously, less emphasis on the Western Access to O'Hare. Overall, I do maintain I-490 will be a great benefit to the region, and the stress reliever on the I-90/294 interchange will be welcome.

https://abc7chicago.com/traffic/construction-underway-for-new-i-490-western-ohare-corridor/10560340/
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #622 on: April 30, 2021, 11:31:04 AM »

Combined with the rebuilding of 294, this will lessen the strain on that interchange with I-90/190/River Road along with the traffic volumes
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #623 on: April 30, 2021, 11:19:21 PM »

Article and video from ABC7 Chicago about the new I-490. The people on this video are really stressing the great benefit of this route as a connector between I-90 and I-294. Obviously, less emphasis on the Western Access to O'Hare. Overall, I do maintain I-490 will be a great benefit to the region, and the stress reliever on the I-90/294 interchange will be welcome.

https://abc7chicago.com/traffic/construction-underway-for-new-i-490-western-ohare-corridor/10560340/

That one has the completion date for I-490 now as 2026.  Previously I had been hearing 2025.
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #624 on: May 01, 2021, 08:29:40 AM »

Article and video from ABC7 Chicago about the new I-490. The people on this video are really stressing the great benefit of this route as a connector between I-90 and I-294. Obviously, less emphasis on the Western Access to O'Hare. Overall, I do maintain I-490 will be a great benefit to the region, and the stress reliever on the I-90/294 interchange will be welcome.

https://abc7chicago.com/traffic/construction-underway-for-new-i-490-western-ohare-corridor/10560340/

That one has the completion date for I-490 now as 2026.  Previously I had been hearing 2025.

Possible it has been pushed back due to the situation with the railroad negotiations and any redesigns to go along with it. Either way, I am glad to see this is continuing. Even without the Western O'Hare Access being an immediate item, it does set it up nicely for it, and the Western Ring around the airport will make traffic flow easier in the area.
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